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View Full Version : What shoudl be included in V8less Drag Events?



SRBURG13
January 8th, 2003, 06:28 PM
I guess Turbotony and his Cyclone won't be included in this list hey??

Blaine B.
January 8th, 2003, 07:31 PM
That is debatable I guess, is a truck a sport compact?

redbaron303
January 8th, 2003, 11:20 PM
I'd say that truck is sporty and it's compact..... not the true def. is it? But I think it meets criteria okay, v8less and fast and smalll....

TurboTony
January 9th, 2003, 01:13 AM
If it helps at all I had to import it from the states. :)

Hmmmm, compact truck, imported, V6. I think it's kinda sporty....


Tony

mrprecidia
January 9th, 2003, 01:48 AM
I say add him :bigthumbup:

Blaine B.
January 9th, 2003, 02:59 PM
Just a question. If somebody pulled off an insanely fast pass in a v6 dakota, or ranger, do they make the list?

Blaine B.
January 10th, 2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 9 2003, 01:59 PM
Just a question. If somebody pulled off an insanely fast pass in a v6 dakota, or ranger, do they make the list?
Nobody has any any input?

mrprecidia
January 10th, 2003, 08:17 PM
thats a good point but to me his truck is more like an import because it is very rare compared to the ranger or Dakota :dunno:

Blaine B.
January 12th, 2003, 03:26 PM
Not knocking you in any way Tony. :bigthumbup:

The truck itself isn't rare, the drivetrain and powerplant is rare.

If a fast dakota/ranger is eligible for the list then obviously so is Tony's machine.

Now, would a fast Ranger or Dakota be eligible for the list?

v8slayer
January 12th, 2003, 03:43 PM
Maybe we should let all the Buick GN's and Mustang V6 turbo's in and every other V8less thing with 4 wheels if you want to go in that direction.

I'll start making the list.

Or do you want to keep it a sport compact still. Do you think porche would flip if we called a slope nose a sport compact.
:bigthumbup:

SRBURG13
January 12th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Hmmm, maybe it should just be a sport compact. The truck is not a sports car, hince the word "truck", and I wouldn't like R/T's or other stuff like that in there. I'd love to see him run, but it isn't a sport compact.

TurboTony
January 12th, 2003, 05:25 PM
Hmmmm,

I guess it all depends on how much the V8less name means vs the whole sport compact issue huh? Does that mean that Pontiac GTP's shouldn't be allowed either, they are technicly midsize cars by GM's defenition.

The truck is pretty rare BTW, only 2998 were built in only the 1991 model year. They were never sold in canada either. Any of them you see in canada were imported by somebody.

Not sure if you guys will care but there will be several more sytys and buicks in the area next year. Most of them are currently being built right now. We will see anything from high 9's to low 11's out of the group next year, and they are all V8less as well.

Tony

v8slayer
January 12th, 2003, 05:50 PM
A Porche isn't a sport compact by any standard when you come down to it.
However they will be at the races for sport compacts so we might as well let anything that isn't a V8 or larger race with us to make it fair.
I know 2 guys with GNX's that will eat us all and a Garrett Turbo V6 stang that will do the same.

Isn't that what they do in the States?
Aren't there Porches , Cyclones and GNX's racing against the Honda's , Toyota's and Nissans.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Difinition of a compact: Small low displacement economy based car.
Sport Compact: The above with performance theme.
Super cars:Porche,BMW,Lotus,GNX,Vette,Cyclone and more.

I still feel though that they should be allowed to race with us on top of they're own class with the IHRA even if they have huge 6's and were never classed as a compact due to them being non V8's.

Just my 2 Cents. :bigthumbup:

Inzane
January 12th, 2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by TurboTony@Jan 12 2003, 03:25 PM
Does that mean that Pontiac GTP's shouldn't be allowed either
I don't consider a GTP a sport compact, certainly not a sports car, and it can't be classified as domestic muscle either.

However, since there are people out there that wish to race these cars, I don't see why we wouldn't include them in our events.

v8slayer
January 12th, 2003, 06:18 PM
Here is what IDRC classes as sport compact racing.

"Only one internal-combustion gasoline engine permitted
in vehicle. All water-cooled engine blocks must be
production based with a production run exceeding 500
units. Cast aftermarket cylinder heads are permitted for
all vehicles. If a water-cooled engine’s cooling system is
utilized, these engines are required to run only water.
No anti-freeze is permitted. Engine manufacturer must
match vehicle chassis manufacturer. Brother-company
substitutions are allowed, such as Lexus/Toyota,
Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura. Domestic manufactured
engines (Ford, GM, Chrysler) are limited to fourcylinders
and OHC six cylinders. Engine must be
located and configured in OEM location. Setting engine
forward or back is allowable when and only when
modified engine mounts attach to factory mounts on the
frame or cross-member assembly. Changing engine
from transverse configuration (East-to-West) to
conventional (North-to-South) is not allowed. Engine
type (# of cylinders) and the number of power adders
will establish minimum weight breaks along with drive
configuration (FWD, RWD, AWD)".

The catch to prevent the Detroit V6's like the GNX and Cyclones to enter is the 6 Cyl engine must be a Over Head Cam type.
It also doesn't mention any Euro cars as legal.

I think I stuck my foot in my mouth when I said we should let them race as sport compacts.
I won't go aginst the IDRC rules since I have been preaching them so much here.
Sorry for sticking my foot in my mouth. :wacko:

TurboTony
January 12th, 2003, 06:20 PM
I know 2 guys with GNX's

I only know of two real GNX's in the province, which two are these?



Super cars:Porche,BMW,Lotus,GNX,Vette,Cyclone and more.

I don't think I'd consider my truck a "super car", but thanks for the compliment

Oh and btw, it's spelled Syclone. :D

Tony

v8slayer
January 12th, 2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by v8slayer@Jan 12 2003, 04:18 PM
Here is what IDRC classes as sport compact racing.

"Only one internal-combustion gasoline engine permitted
in vehicle. All water-cooled engine blocks must be
production based with a production run exceeding 500
units. Cast aftermarket cylinder heads are permitted for
all vehicles. If a water-cooled engine’s cooling system is
utilized, these engines are required to run only water.
No anti-freeze is permitted. Engine manufacturer must
match vehicle chassis manufacturer. Brother-company
substitutions are allowed, such as Lexus/Toyota,
Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura. Domestic manufactured
engines (Ford, GM, Chrysler) are limited to fourcylinders
and OHC six cylinders. Engine must be
located and configured in OEM location. Setting engine
forward or back is allowable when and only when
modified engine mounts attach to factory mounts on the
frame or cross-member assembly. Changing engine
from transverse configuration (East-to-West) to
conventional (North-to-South) is not allowed. Engine
type (# of cylinders) and the number of power adders
will establish minimum weight breaks along with drive
configuration (FWD, RWD, AWD)".

The catch to prevent the Detroit V6's like the GNX and Cyclones to enter is the 6 Cyl engine must be a Over Head Cam type.
It also doesn't mention any Euro cars as legal.

I think I stuck my foot in my mouth when I said we should let them race as sport compacts.
I won't go aginst the IDRC rules since I have been preaching them so much here.
Sorry for sticking my foot in my mouth. :wacko:
Just out of curiosity where do these rules leave Lino and his thunder bird powered R-100?

Mazda is owned by ford or is it still wrong do to the R-100 being origionally a rotory powered car when Ford didn't own them.

Don't get me wrong , I want to see him at the track if the rules allow it.
:bigthumbup:

SRBURG13
January 13th, 2003, 12:17 AM
My post sounded bad. I mean to say that, you are not a sport compact. BUT you are a v8less. By all means RACE!! Good point on the GTP example. But we still let them fire it up. Sure, why not. Must we start determining V8less "sport compacts", and V8less "misc". That would be kinda gay. We are all here for fun, right? So lets have fun. If this was some sort of STRICT race group with rules and everything, then maybe not, but for V8LESS PURPOSES, by definition, TurboTony and whatever other car are more than welcome. At least he is in my books.

But for all of us that don't have cars that run into the 10's and better. It kinda defeats the purpose of us trying to "win" a race. I don't know too many of us on here that can crack 10's.

For the "v8less" hangouts and meetings and shit like that, we sure as hell can just be "one happy family", but when down at the track, I think there should be some sort of separation between the ranks. At least for the trophy give outs or whatever there may be. Do you know what I mean? Like fastest Euro, Japanese, American etc etc. Obviously these are to be elaborated extensively.

I hope you guys got the jist of what I was trying to put out there.

PEACE

wong
January 13th, 2003, 12:41 AM
I agree. Last year at SCCC, they had a GTP, a Taurus, I think a monte carlo, and the Turbo Dodge Ram Diesel was supposed to show up too.

I say leave the muscle (chevelles, stangs, novas, vettes) out.

I think the name should be changed to V8less Challenge Cup tho!

Blaine B.
January 13th, 2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by v8slayer@Jan 12 2003, 05:24 PM
Just out of curiosity where do these rules leave Lino and his thunder bird powered R-100?

Mazda is owned by ford or is it still wrong do to the R-100 being origionally a rotory powered car when Ford didn't own them.

Don't get me wrong , I want to see him at the track if the rules allow it.
:bigthumbup:
I mentioned this particular combo to the IDRC Tech Director as well today out of curiosity.
A car with this layout would run in Outlaw according to IDRC Rules.

bigpappa
January 13th, 2003, 07:35 PM
i hope they would remember me and mike ferea are friends and talk feqeuntly. :D

redbaron303
January 13th, 2003, 07:48 PM
This is all about being V8less, right? Sport Compact being the second criteria....

We can't forget about the insane Datsun 240Z V8 conversions, by def. they're a sport compact and v8less.... but they can attain the same if not better performance by doing such a swap then why not right?

I think my personal opinion (which may not count for much) is that if the person is v8less stock then fine they should race or if they are a SCC stock then fine they should race. I don't think that a big chevelle would fit either criteria.... but what about a 6cylinder powered camaro or mustang? They came v8less from the factory giving them half the criteria to race????

Question: Which is more important, being considered a SCC or being of less than 8 cylinders? Also with our group being called v8less, what about a 10 or 12 cylinder powered car, they're usually not all that big in size and are deffinatly v8less (ie lamborghini/viper) Of course they're super cars and and not SCC's.

How do these kind of guys fit into the group and the race criteria? Feasibly none were stock v8's and the ones that are some can be considered SCC/supercar... Ferrari?

Maybe i"m just rambling on for no reason? What is your guy's opinions on such vehicles?

djshortys
January 13th, 2003, 09:11 PM
I dont think a GM is really a "import" , sure its sporty and a really nice truck, but ther are certain limits, as i live by, a import is prettmuch honda, lexus,mistu,VW,renaul etc, so i would have to say that a GM or anyouther american made motor vehicle isnt a "import". altho there are sum factorys in the states that make honda,toyota etc, they are still imports...but thats my 2 cents :blink:

redbaron303
January 13th, 2003, 09:39 PM
I'm sure everything will work out for summer.

You know Acura is "made" in the States right, so if you're only going for truely imported cars from overseas then Acura shouldn't be included either. That's an opinion that I don't agree with, but I figure it had to be said.

Also gm vehicles can be considered imports because they generally are made in the USA which is not Canada, right?!

I don't know, I think that Syclone is a pretty cool truck so I don't see why it shouldn't be included, but I will say that if we allow him to not to be included I don't think that any J-bodies and Grandams or GTP's ought to be included either... if we're getting into it, why let anything that's powered by an American manufacturer be allowed to race. I think this is a good point, but I also think we need to define better what we should allow in this "society!" Point being, where does it stop by limiting entrants that basically follow all the guidelines: sport (sporty), compact and V8less!

BTW in my opion you can't tell me that a Cavalier or sunfire or even a Civic were designed to be race cars, right?! Doesn't mean we should exclude them!

1mns13
January 13th, 2003, 10:23 PM
V8-less vehicles should be included. Pretty simple, by the definition of not having a V8 in the car. Of course there will be many different classes, to separate the V8-less categories. Why do some people associate compact with cheap or inexpensive?
Jared B)

SRBURG13
January 14th, 2003, 12:48 AM
Since none of us are actual organizers (creaters) of v8less (as far as I know), how about we leave it up to the organizers to determine what they want included in their organization??? I mean we may all have our own opinions, right? But I think the true organizers should put in their 2 cents as well.

Suggestion: V8less to be separated by classes. Be it by make, engine size, or whatever. But these should be classes for racing. For just being included in the v8less club, hell, the more the marrier, just don't own a v8 vehicle. Am I way out on left field with this statement? I'm sure we don't have to be up to par with the regulations of the IDRC, cause we don't exactly have as many cars as they may have.


So when they created V8less, did they mean just no v8's or v8's and anything greater (v10, v12)?? Cause I was under the assumption of the latter.

Anyone up to making a list of the classes? Something somewhat simple, nothing crazy technical, but still a good variation. We will all modify as we see fit, and then have votes on how the classes should be make, until we have a majority rules kinda thing? PearlyWhite, you up got time to make a rough copy list? Are the organizers of v8less up to this idea? What do you all think?

There is my 2 cents, again.

PEACE

SRBURG13
January 14th, 2003, 11:44 AM
Do you two wanna start your own topic to tell each other off, or can we get back to topic???

bigpappa
January 14th, 2003, 12:02 PM
okay i won't say no more.sorry guys it's just so easy okay back on topic

Blaine B.
January 14th, 2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by SRBURG13@Jan 13 2003, 11:48 PM
I'm sure we don't have to be up to par with the regulations of the IDRC, cause we don't exactly have as many cars as they may have.



Contrary to popular belief, the IDRC regulations are very easy to meet.

http://www.importdrag.com/IDRC2002_Rulebook.pdf

If everybody would read just the preface description of the different classes and not get weighed down with the specific's all the time, you would see that is a simple and easy platform for any race scene to grow from.

There is a class for your tercel (bracket)
There is a class for your All Motor tercel
There is a class for your tercel on nitrous
There is a class for your tercel on nitrous and slicks
There is a class for your RWD tercel on nitrous and slicks
There is a class for your Tube Frame RWD tercel on nitrous and slicks.

If you don't fit into one of those classes, then you are probably driving a jet car. B)

We might not have that many cars now to fill every field. If we show organization on the track with consistent classes from year to year, people who see how much fun drag racing is, will be less aprehensive about bringing their car out and giving it a shot. Especially if there is big prize money, instead of a gift certificate towards a clutch.

T51R
January 14th, 2003, 01:03 PM
Well with all the new rules taht everyone wants to apply then we should atleast do it rigth.
We need a BIKINI CONTEST....WET T-SHIRT CONTEST....FEMALE ONLY EVENT.....
all the events down south has it then we should have it too.

THIS IS A MUST, NO BUTS ABOUT IT

Blaine B.
January 14th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by T51R@Jan 14 2003, 12:03 PM
Well with all the new rules taht everyone wants to apply then we should atleast do it rigth.
We need a BIKINI CONTEST....WET T-SHIRT CONTEST....FEMALE ONLY EVENT.....
all the events down south has it then we should have it too.

THIS IS A MUST, NO BUTS ABOUT IT
Agreed! The IDRC event's are in association with Movement One car shows. We have the luxury of living in sunny Alberta, let the ladies show off. :bigthumbup:

nissanz32
January 14th, 2003, 01:16 PM
there is nothing better than seeing some nice cars with some nice woman :bigthumbup:

v8slayer
January 14th, 2003, 04:38 PM
I'm in to getting some honeys lined up.
I'm always going to these oil field functions and the girls they get for entertainment are the bomb.
I bet we can get a mixture of pro's and wanabee's up there just for our viewing pleasure.

Fast cars , hot chicks and the smell of C-16 oh I can't imagine a nicer day. :bigthumbup:

Mark Seto
January 14th, 2003, 04:59 PM
V8slayer and bigpappa,

If you're wondering where some of your posts are, see here: http://www.v8less.com/programs/forum/index...t=ST&f=4&t=2959 (http://www.v8less.com/programs/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=2959)

Now back to the bikini contest j/k ;)

SRBURG13
January 14th, 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 14 2003, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by SRBURG13@Jan 13 2003, 11:48 PM
I'm sure we don't have to be up to par with the regulations of the IDRC, cause we don't exactly have as many cars as they may have.



Contrary to popular belief, the IDRC regulations are very easy to meet.

http://www.importdrag.com/IDRC2002_Rulebook.pdf

If everybody would read just the preface description of the different classes and not get weighed down with the specific's all the time, you would see that is a simple and easy platform for any race scene to grow from.

There is a class for your tercel (bracket)
There is a class for your All Motor tercel
There is a class for your tercel on nitrous
There is a class for your tercel on nitrous and slicks
There is a class for your RWD tercel on nitrous and slicks
There is a class for your Tube Frame RWD tercel on nitrous and slicks.

If you don't fit into one of those classes, then you are probably driving a jet car. B)

We might not have that many cars now to fill every field. If we show organization on the track with consistent classes from year to year, people who see how much fun drag racing is, will be less aprehensive about bringing their car out and giving it a shot. Especially if there is big prize money, instead of a gift certificate towards a clutch.
Ok, thanks Pearly, finally we are gettin somewhere. Sorry, I never took the time to go to any webpages and actually look this shit up. Thats just me being narrow minded again. Anyhow, what about turbo cars?? Should be elaborate on these classes you had mentioned? Do THAT many of us use slicks that it has to be in a different class??

""There is a class for your tercel (bracket) ***so this is just for basic stock cars?***
There is a class for your All Motor tercel***supped up cars unlimited???***
There is a class for your tercel on nitrous***anything with nitrous?***
There is a class for your tercel on nitrous and slicks***scrap this one I think***
There is a class for your RWD tercel on nitrous and slicks***right now I don't think we need to separate these, do we?? Maybe a separation between all AWD and the rest??***
There is a class for your Tube Frame RWD tercel on nitrous and slicks.""

What do you think of classes called "turbo class" and then separate into "turbo class with different drive trains", or into "turbo class in accordance with displacement"?? Something a little different for us, for purposes of fun. :dunno: , "truck class", "AWD class", "JDM class", "domestic class", and all sorts of other shit we can think of. I agree totally with your list, but I don't know if that would be efficient for all of us. Do we have that many cars on nitrous and slicks???? It seems as though these classes are for cars with only nitrous. There are a lot of other non- n/a cars out there.

What do you think? Mix it up a little bit? Try and keep it as professional as possible but then again, make it nice and interesting. Who knows?

PEACE

SRBURG13
January 14th, 2003, 06:27 PM
Oh yeah, make sure there are chicks there. More titties the better. Ooops, can I say that on here :nono:

PEACE

Blaine B.
January 14th, 2003, 07:30 PM
Bracket Class - anything goes, object is to be consistent.
All motor - Just what it says, ALL MOTOR, no power adders allowed like nitrous/Supercharging/Turbocharging.
Street Class (tercel on nitrous)- Street trim cars with maximum 2 power adders on street tires.
Quick Class (tercel on nitrous/Slicks)- "street" car with slicks and wheelie bars
Outlaw (Tercel/Nitrous/Slicks/RWD) - street car with a drivetrain layout different from factory, power adders and slicks allowed.
Pro (Tercel/TubeFrame/Slicks/RWD) - Race car in every sense of the word.

The rules are established to promote good platform choice. For example in the Outlaw class:"The current class record stands at 8.10 for a rear-wheel drive and 8.12 for a front wheel drive."
There is no need to establish different classes for drivetrain layouts.
Forced induction is forced induction, so whether you turbocharge, supercharge or spray, you should be in the same class.
There are qualifying times for the different classes, those who don't make qualifying can race in bracket class.
Everybody wins!

SRBURG13
January 14th, 2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 15 2003, 12:30 AM
"The current class record stands at 8.10 for a rear-wheel drive and 8.12 for a front wheel drive."

Hmmmm, yeah but thats with dudes with endless money pits of cash. We on the other hand are for the majority, students.

I personally don't agree with this system. Well I do, just not for us. Hmmmm, we should see what everyone else thinks about this way of setting up the drag season for all the v8less'ers. What do you think? Markis??

PEACE

Mark Seto
January 14th, 2003, 11:59 PM
Hi SRBURG13,

No rules have been made yet. I value your input and opinions, but rules will be based on many variables that may not be so obvious to some.

Thanks.

Blaine B.
January 15th, 2003, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by SRBURG13@Jan 14 2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 15 2003, 12:30 AM
"The current class record stands at 8.10 for a rear-wheel drive and 8.12 for a front wheel drive."

Hmmmm, yeah but thats with dudes with endless money pits of cash. We on the other hand are for the majority, students.

I personally don't agree with this system. Well I do, just not for us. Hmmmm, we should see what everyone else thinks about this way of setting up the drag season for all the v8less'ers. What do you think? Markis??

PEACE
I used the outlaw class as an example to show how close the competition is. We are still fledgling in comparison so the bracket class applies to most of us.

If you look at the rules for bracket class, it is anything goes! All out RACE cars against newbies in mom's Tercel (No disrespect to Tercel'sS ;) ), with dial in times to level the playing ground.

The other classes are "head's up", where the green light drops and the bullshit stop's, first car through the trap's win's.

Official qualifying e.t. is 13.99 or lower for Street Class, and only the fastest 8 car's qualify for elimination's. I don't think we will have any trouble filling that class this year. :bigthumbup:

What I have been saying from the begining is the IDRC rulebook provides for "scene's" of every level, we might not have car's to fill every class right now, but the rules provide direction for those whose need for speed isn't quenched in the lower classes.

It seems that bigpappa has spearheaded the Outlaw Class and even the Pro Class this year with his car, giving the scene a taste of what is possible. :bigthumbup:

v8slayer
January 15th, 2003, 08:47 AM
Lets wait and see what the rules are and how they will affect us.

I'm sure if we point out things of concern the organizers will listen to us and try to make the majority of us and their sponsers happy. :bigthumbup:

bigpappa
January 15th, 2003, 10:41 AM
thanx pearly tsi are you bringing out the zippy car??me and you midas well see if we could do exibihition passes?that way we can see how far we can push are rides?does that sound good? :D

SRBURG13
January 15th, 2003, 10:55 AM
Hey Markis, no worries, and thanks. I'm sure you'll fire something real nice up for all of us.

PEACE

Blaine B.
January 15th, 2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by bigpappa@Jan 15 2003, 09:41 AM
thanx pearly tsi are you bringing out the zippy car??me and you midas well see if we could do exibihition passes?that way we can see how far we can push are rides?does that sound good? :D
The Sivihk will be out there this year, if we don't sell it. :bigthumbup:

v8slayer
January 15th, 2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 15 2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by bigpappa@Jan 15 2003, 09:41 AM
thanx pearly tsi are you bringing out the zippy car??me and you midas well see if we could do exibihition passes?that way we can see how far we can push are rides?does that sound good? :D
The Sivihk will be out there this year, if we don't sell it. :bigthumbup:
Exibition runs my a## , your going out there in that pop can and wining the day.

talont
January 16th, 2003, 03:50 AM
I hope that everyone can see that the rules outlined in IDRC are going to prevent fair competition for most people in OUR racing community who want to participate in the Street Class who have spent money on building a respectably fast car (13sec range) by allowing Race built cars able to do 12 or even 11 sec passes to race against our cars still in the 13's. I personally think the FULL implementation of this platform is a mistake. I know I haven’t spent thousands on my car just to race in the bracket class. When my car doesn’t make qualifiers because it is only a 13sec car competing in the street class against race built machines, or if I do make it due to, to few competitors (the only way I could get in) then its me Vs the 11sec monster. Hahahaha. Just what everyone came out to see... and if your car is still in the 14's.... It’s off to the bracket class for you to. If I am going to race, its because I am looking to compete against EQUALLY fast cars in a Heads Up Challenge and have a CHANCE at winning. That is what brings out competitors!!! Hidden somewhere amid all of our ideas, facts, and opinions is a middle ground where fair competition can be outlined and enforced by an agreed upon set of rules. Good luck to the organizers, I know your task will not be easy!

v8slayer
January 16th, 2003, 08:39 AM
What are you talking about there is a class for you.

Besides since you haven't told me whats up with you turbo I would have to imagine your up to no good anyways. :o

PM me what the hell is going on with that pump. :bigthumbup:

Loose
January 16th, 2003, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by talont@Jan 16 2003, 01:50 AM
I hope that everyone can see that the rules outlined in IDRC are going to prevent fair competition for most people in OUR racing community who want to participate in the Street Class who have spent money on building a respectably fast car (13sec range) by allowing Race built cars able to do 12 or even 11 sec passes to race against our cars still in the 13's. I personally think the FULL implementation of this platform is a mistake. I know I haven’t spent thousands on my car just to race in the bracket class. When my car doesn’t make qualifiers because it is only a 13sec car competing in the street class against race built machines, or if I do make it due to, to few competitors (the only way I could get in) then its me Vs the 11sec monster. Hahahaha. Just what everyone came out to see... and if your car is still in the 14's.... It’s off to the bracket class for you to. If I am going to race, its because I am looking to compete against EQUALLY fast cars in a Heads Up Challenge and have a CHANCE at winning. That is what brings out competitors!!! Hidden somewhere amid all of our ideas, facts, and opinions is a middle ground where fair competition can be outlined and enforced by an agreed upon set of rules. Good luck to the organizers, I know your task will not be easy!
Just to stir the pot a bit:

Why do you think you deserve a chance in winning? After all, your car is mildly modified and there are others who put more $$$ and effort into there cars for the purpose of racing. Since their car is faster, maybe they deserve to win over you.

SRBURG13
January 16th, 2003, 10:24 AM
I agree with Talont totally. I understand where he is coming from. I also agree with Looses point. Hmmmm, this IS going to be a tough one to decide.

Good luck to the organizers. :fingersx:

Blaine B.
January 16th, 2003, 12:35 PM
I think what it boils down to is consistency. Wouldn't you be choked if you spent a year or two building a car tothe limits of a specific class, only to find that the class no longer exists or the rules have been changed?

The reason there is big money and prizes at major events is to reward the hard work and $$$ invested in these machines. If you don't want to go hardcore from the start and just enjoy racing, or testing the limits of your car then there is the bracket classes.

When you decide to go hardcore and build a car to the edges of the rules of a class, there needs to be consistency from year to year or what's the point?

Everybody needs to see beyond this coming race season and look at the big picture. Sure this season may be a little rough, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

"If you build it, they will come", machine's will be built to race in specific classes, providing excellent competition and excellent rewards.

talont
January 16th, 2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Loose@Jan 16 2003, 07:59 AM

Just to stir the pot a bit:

Why do you think you deserve a chance in winning? After all, your car is mildly modified and there are others who put more $$$ and effort into there cars for the purpose of racing. Since their car is faster, maybe they deserve to win over you.
Are you being serious?
I think everyone deserves a chance at winning. Why else would you race your car in a competition class with trophies and prizes?
Yes there are cars much faster than mine and that is why they should race against other equally fast cars. What I am saying is make the classes even so that people who haven’t spent 20g on upgrading there car (which is most of us) can race against others in there own class. This doesn’t mean group all cars that cant do a 12sec pass into one Hugh bracket class... how does that get people in our community excited about building a fast car? The street class needs to be split up to promote competition. If we are going to grow the classes need to be appealing to a broader group, not just the fully race built machines.

talont
January 16th, 2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 16 2003, 10:35 AM
I think what it boils down to is consistency. Wouldn't you be choked if you spent a year or two building a car tothe limits of a specific class, only to find that the class no longer exists or the rules have been changed?

The reason there is big money and prizes at major events is to reward the hard work and $$$ invested in these machines. If you don't want to go hardcore from the start and just enjoy racing, or testing the limits of your car then there is the bracket classes.

When you decide to go hardcore and build a car to the edges of the rules of a class, there needs to be consistency from year to year or what's the point?

Everybody needs to see beyond this coming race season and look at the big picture. Sure this season may be a little rough, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

"If you build it, they will come", machine's will be built to race in specific classes, providing excellent competition and excellent rewards.
I agree, we need to have consistency. Our racing community is growing and rules should be in place to help reinforce our growth by allowing us to make class specific cars. These classes need to be agreed upon so that they will not change from year to year.

What we don’t have here that they have down south is the ability to support a fully implemented IDRC racing rules competition.

What we need to make a fully implemented IDRC competition work?

- People to race in the classes

We have allot of cars but how many of them are 12sec or faster? Not very many. They have a great many more cars than us that are able to support the rules, which were made for there racing community not ours.

- Sponsors with big prizes (not gift certificates)

If you want big names or tons of fast cars they are not going to come from eastern Canada or down south to race of peanuts.


IDRC is a big step. To big to take all at once. IDRC is an option, but it’s not the only option available to us. We need to be realistic about what we can support. IDRC works for them because they have so many very fast cars that they need a strict set of rules to break up the elite classes to promote competition. That just isn’t going to work for us.......yet

SRBURG13
January 16th, 2003, 10:44 PM
Man-O-man, TalonT hit is right on the nail.

4kruzn
January 16th, 2003, 11:07 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you guys need to go bracket racing.... In bracket racing its the driver who wins races not nearly as much as the car. remember that in any type of motorsports the more money one can spend the faster one can go. this never seems fair but it is life as i know it... when it comes to being fair to the driver it's brackets all the way. this is fair for the competitor, but the fans come to see the fast heads up races...which means if you want fans to show up and the competitors to have fun we should have both bracket and heads up classes. the idrc has both.

TurboTony
January 16th, 2003, 11:32 PM
The way that the SCC was set up was a good idea. Classes of different ET's.

I wasn't there, were the classes set up by qualifying then reverted to a dial in? Or did they remain heads up once you qualified?

If it remained heads up in different et ranges, that would be nice. Lets just open it up to V8less vehicles, not just sport compacts :D


Tony

talont
January 17th, 2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by 4kruzn@Jan 16 2003, 09:07 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you guys need to go bracket racing.... In bracket racing its the driver who wins races not nearly as much as the car. remember that in any type of motorsports the more money one can spend the faster one can go. this never seems fair but it is life as i know it... when it comes to being fair to the driver it's brackets all the way. this is fair for the competitor, but the fans come to see the fast heads up races...which means if you want fans to show up and the competitors to have fun we should have both bracket and heads up classes. the idrc has both.
Why would I spend money on making my car go faster if I was only going to run in the bracket class?
Joe Blow could show up in his geo metro and win the day. Bracket is great, but let’s face facts. If you are going to mod your car you don’t do that to compete in a bracket class! You want heads up racing!

Of course money usually wins the day. That is why they have classes to separate cars into competitive groups allowing you to race against equally fast cars.

There is a reason heads up is done on a pro tree. Is so that the money doesn’t always win. Driver’s reaction time is vital to getting a good time and that takes skill on a pro tree!

Blaine B.
January 17th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by 4kruzn@Jan 16 2003, 10:07 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you guys need to go bracket racing.... In bracket racing its the driver who wins races not nearly as much as the car. remember that in any type of motorsports the more money one can spend the faster one can go. this never seems fair but it is life as i know it... when it comes to being fair to the driver it's brackets all the way. this is fair for the competitor, but the fans come to see the fast heads up races...which means if you want fans to show up and the competitors to have fun we should have both bracket and heads up classes. the idrc has both.
Exactly!
The bracket class is where most who are serious about racing start out and hone their skills. You can continually improve your machine to be competitive in the class you have your eye on.
When you have built your machine to the best of your ability you make the switch to "Street" or "Outlaw" or whatever to go for the big money and reap the rewards of all your hard work.

talont
January 17th, 2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 17 2003, 12:55 PM
Exactly!
The bracket class is where most who are serious about racing start out and hone their skills. You can continually improve your machine to be competitive in the class you have your eye on.
When you have built your machine to the best of your ability you make the switch to "Street" or "Outlaw" or whatever to go for the big money and reap the rewards of all your hard work.
So when you had your talon at the track last summer I can assume that’s what you did. Entered in the bracket class to hone your skills?

Or did you enter against other equally fast cars in a competitive Heads up class?


For someone who has an interest in selling performance enhancing parts, why are you shooting yourself in the foot by suggesting that unless you spend 15-20 thousand on your car you can only bracket race?

this will turn far more people away than it will ever attract!!!

bigpappa
January 17th, 2003, 07:32 PM
in my opion i think that the all motor class should be bracket racing,then all the cars in that class are equal?

then there should be a street class eg, v-8 killer,t51r,
this class would be for power adders engine swaps and anything street legal with insurance,nos turbos engine swaps?


then shop/outlaw class any car built by a shop thats sells performance parts,
manadtory rule; every shop must enter!phat,titan, prodrag,extreme velocity,matrix,jb's,streetgear,ez motorsports, and any other shop with a import store to prove to the fans who is the best high perfomance shop in e-town?


then take the top 6 and have them battle it out? :bow:

Blaine B.
January 17th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by talont@Jan 17 2003, 05:57 PM
So when you had your talon at the track last summer I can assume that’s what you did. Entered in the bracket class to hone your skills?

Or did you enter against other equally fast cars in a competitive Heads up class?



At the second BOI I was in "Pro Stock Import" or something like that. It was heads up and I ended up getting my ass handed to me by the turbo GLH and IH8V8S' Wagon.(both those machines are cool :bigthumbup: ).

The GLH ended up winning some kind of $100 gift certificate I think, and a trophy if I am not mistaken.

At the SCC I was in one of the slower bracket classes and had qualified for eliminations before the Snail let me down and lubed up the track (sorry 'bout that guys ;) ).

In both instances the prize was nothing to write home about. There wasn't even a prize or trophy for lowest e.t. at the SCCC.

Established rules for the masses will create greater payouts in every class, including bracket. Those who want to go class specific and run head's up have the option, and in return (in theory) greater rewards.

v8slayer
January 18th, 2003, 04:38 PM
Talont: This is for you

You know, we had all this worked out, and everybody seemed to be on the same page.
We are trying to incorporate rules that are perfected and work great around the world and racer's respect.
It seemed like the logical step of evolution for this city since it seems to be where the import PERFORMANCE scene is strongest in western Canada.
Myself and others have prepped our cars to race in certain classes, as I am sure you are prepping your car.

Talont, do you not agree, by adopting rules used everywhere but here it will invariably draw outside talent, better prizes, more events and shops providing better sponsorships?
Also, this will in the end, create better/faster cars because we will know the envelope we have to build and tune within.

I think it would be a terrible shame if we end up with lame brain classes divided by e.t.'s just to accomodate people that should really be bracket racing!

Man, I can't believe you can come in at the end of a discussion that has been going on for as long as this one has and throw a wrench in the spokes when everything was just about settled and finished.
For the first time since this has all started, I am actually quite mad and disturbed. How's this for a good result? If we end up with classes divided up by e.t.'s instead of sancitoning body rules the same as or similar to IDRC, I will tune my car to the threshold of your class, in any event you show up to compete in, just to throw a wrench in your spokes and show you how it feels.

Now that you have read this, and it has sunk in, I'll tell you the real reaon I said this; It was not to be a jerk or cheater it was just to show you how somebody can dominate a class and take home all the winning's when classes are set up by dividing up e.t.'s.
Steve, my friend, e.t. classes always come back and bite you in the ass, because everybody sandbags and if they say they don't, they also lie about masturbating. :bigthumbup:

This is one of the major reasons classes are set up in the IDRC (and other sanctioning bodies) based on vehicular construction and not expected e.t., to prevent antic's as described above.

To all the potential sponsors, and promotor's lurking and paying attention. Notice how passionate spectator's (Loose) and competitor's alike are about this sport, judging by user posting in this forum, let alone just lurking traffic as opposed to pre-debate posting and traffic statistics since I have broached the subject of regulations in the sport compact scene. I hope you guy's take note of what's been going on, and how serious we are about our sport.
Personally, I didn't build a car to play games, nor race at "mickey mouse" regulated event's, when we all know you have the abilitiy to run a first class event at a first class facility such as Bud Park.:rolleyes:

talont
January 18th, 2003, 07:40 PM
Thanks Roger I appreciate your well thought out response to what I have been saying. I do have a few concerns about what you think I have said and what it is that I actually mean. I will explain.

I have not at any point seen where the discussion of "whether to adopt FULLY the IDRC" was ever fully supported my more that two or three people on the forum. That is hardly an overwhelming wave of support!

Unfortunately most people have not prepped there cars to run in any one particular class as there has have never been any consistency to classes in our racing community.

I agree that we need to adopt rules and have myself stated that it should in theory attract a higher number of serious racers and in turn increase prizes. (I have never suggested otherwise).

There is little denying the benefits our friends to the south have enjoyed as a result of having implemented IDRC. Our racing community is not anywhere near the level that they are. There are so many sanctioning bodies out there catering to the specific needs of the racing environments they are in. What I am saying is that the IDRC does not in its entirety cater to our needs. I do think there is a great deal of information we can take from IDRC and incorporate into what will work for our community. The "tire issue" is evidence of this fact.

I have never suggested going with an ET class method and if I thought that was the way things were going I would have given my opinion on that as well.

It maters not when I enter into this discussion. The fact that I have spent time trying to give well thought out ideas about this sport and I am an active participant in it I have every right to voice my opinion, right?

I can see that you have a problem with dividing classes by ET, and you have shown why you think that it isn’t a good idea. I agree with you so please don’t make me out to be supporting ET classes just because I don’t feel IDRC will meet the needs of the majority, but instead, will cater the the wants of an elite few.

I respect your opinion, and am glad that someone has taken the time to challenge some of what I have to say. Some of you may agree with my opinions and some may not. I will not take things personally, and invite everyone to participate in having a healthy discussion on this subject's Pro's and Cons. I believe that there is a solution out there that will satisfy the wants and needs of everyone. I have been short on solutions and long winded on the problems. I apologies but until we identify what is broke we cant fix anything!

Blaine B.
January 18th, 2003, 08:19 PM
What is "broken"about sanctioning body rules? In my opinion nothing.

talont
January 18th, 2003, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by v8slayer@Jan 18 2003, 02:38 PM

For the first time since this has all started, I am actually quite mad and disturbed. How's this for a good result? If we end up with classes divided up by e.t.'s instead of sancitoning body rules the same as or similar to IDRC, I will tune my car to the threshold of your class, in any event you show up to compete in, just to throw a wrench in your spokes and show you how it feels.


And then my big brothers car is going to beat up your big brothers car.....:mellow:

I get the point you are trying to make. I am kidding and thought some humor might put a lighter spin on things as I value our friendship and will not let what should be an mature intelligent discussion become otherwise. :rolleyes:

talont
January 18th, 2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 18 2003, 06:19 PM
What is "broken"about sanctioning body rules? In my opinion nothing.

I have stated my opinion and given reasons why I feel the way I do. Do I need to repeat everything I have said in previous posts? Generic open statements like the quoted give me little to respond to that I haven’t already addressed and show me little reason to change my opinion.


If you truly feel that the majority of people on this board would like to have the IDRC FULLY implemented, I invite you to start an unbiased poll!

For example:

Should we fully implement and enforce the rules of IDRC?
Should we partially implement and enforce the rules of IDRC?
Should we make our own rules without help from the IDRC?
Should we leave things as they are and race what you bring?
No opinion

dogstar
January 18th, 2003, 09:35 PM
i dont know the exact wording of the IRDC rules, but i think that a preestablished set of rules that have been proven to work will help advance the sport in edmonton.

without a standard set of rules, its going to be hell to organize anything, but it maybe true that IRDC would be too big a step to take at once.

i for one, am going to go read up on the rules so i can properly form an opinion.
but from what ive read in here so far, it looks like IRDC could be phased in over a full summer, perhaps starting with a modified version of the rules, with some allowances for people with prebuilt cars, then become stricter and stricter up until the final event/race of the season, where full IRDC rules would be in effect and remain in use for following years?

perhaps im blowing smoke out my ass, but thats my idea.

circle
January 19th, 2003, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by talont@Jan 18 2003, 05:40 PM
I have not at any point seen where the discussion of "whether to adopt FULLY the IDRC" was ever fully supported my more that two or three people on the forum. That is hardly an overwhelming wave of support!
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

good post.

Blaine B.
January 19th, 2003, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by dogstar@Jan 18 2003, 08:35 PM
i dont know the exact wording of the IRDC rules, but i think that a preestablished set of rules that have been proven to work will help advance the sport in edmonton.

without a standard set of rules, its going to be hell to organize anything, but it maybe true that IRDC would be too big a step to take at once.

i for one, am going to go read up on the rules so i can properly form an opinion.
but from what ive read in here so far, it looks like IRDC could be phased in over a full summer, perhaps starting with a modified version of the rules, with some allowances for people with prebuilt cars, then become stricter and stricter up until the final event/race of the season, where full IRDC rules would be in effect and remain in use for following years?

perhaps im blowing smoke out my ass, but thats my idea.
How's that for a compromise?
You should be a diplomat dogstar. Not being an ass either. It would be nice if everybody involved read the rulebook located Here (http://importdrag.com/IDRC2002_Rulebook.pdf) and read up on all of the classes that IDRC offers. It seems to strike the ideal balance out of all the sanctioning bodies rulebooks. These rules have been adopted by racing groups around the world to benchmark their perfomance against.

Rome wasn't built in a day, so phasing in the rules over the course of a season to give everybody time to adjust is a good idea.

redbaron303
January 19th, 2003, 06:44 PM
Standardized rules are good because it gives people something to follow and build a car for. I'm not a truly experienced track racer by any means and frankly at this point it really doesn't matter to me. I don't own a car that is heavily modded or on slicks or gutted. I drive an everyday 14 second street car that has crappy goodyears on it, suspension that squats heavily under launch, and is completely stock with the exception of my BOV and ricey headlights and aftermarket guages. I don't know how many of us here should really be whinning about implementing standardized, proven to work rules when I haven't seen one true 10 second car. Let's face it 11.00+ is not 10 seconds!

Again on a personal note, I just got tired of reading all of the posts about these rules from the people that do have quick cars or tune cars, or just simply love cars. Don't forget we aren't the organizers of the V8less race events and in the end it will be up to Markis and the V8less organizers to decide what they want to do and who they want there. Simple as that. I think as far as rules go, I would want something that is simple and easy to understand for the first time racer but also allows for fearce competition. The only reason why I'd go to the track is to improve my skills and try to destroy anything with wheels out there....

Is any of this making sense?! I think it does! I think skill should win over the money you spent on your car. Any "fool" can drive a car and invest a hundred thousand to have their fast and furious racer but what good is a 10, 11, 12, 13, 14+ second car when the driver can't drive worth shit?! Skill should prevail in the end, but we all know whoever spend the most cash on their ride will probably if not for sure win!

Synopsis: use rules that are proven to work, something that everyone can understand and follow without too many problems, something that allows for heavy competition but fairness as well. I'll give V8less my full support as long as the event is as good as last years if not better and always as fun as they have been for spectators and racers alike :) So far they've done a good job, I can only see this organization improving regardless as to what the organzizers adopt in the end!

dogstar
January 22nd, 2003, 01:59 AM
i for one will be on the track when my cars safe and ready, i encourage every one to come out and run, even if its "only" bracket.

who cares if your running bracket, your still racing, and if you spent a lot of money and dont want to run bracket, then perhaps you should pick a class and kick some ass, underdogs do win, why cant you?

thanks pearly, i just figured compromise is a half assed solution, but its a solution all the same.
so long as everyone is smiling at an event, then its a sucess, at least thats how i figure...

talont3t4
January 24th, 2003, 11:35 PM
Does anyone know the exact turn out of imports over the past say 3-4 events? I think we need to look at our numbers, and performance numbers and go from there. we need some kind of rules, but i suspect we don't have the turn out to permit the ussage of all the IDRC classes. JUst a thought?

turbomike
January 25th, 2003, 03:45 AM
turbo sprints can race too right...

Blaine B.
January 25th, 2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by talont3t4@Jan 24 2003, 10:35 PM
Does anyone know the exact turn out of imports over the past say 3-4 events? I think we need to look at our numbers, and performance numbers and go from there. we need some kind of rules, but i suspect we don't have the turn out to permit the ussage of all the IDRC classes. JUst a thought?
We don't have the cars yet, this is true, but the only way to encourage people to build competitive cars AND race them LOCALLY, is to provide them with a consistent/established set of rules. Set up classes that are used a majority of the tracks around North America and around the world, and people will develop machines to run in those classes.

bigpappa
February 10th, 2003, 10:22 AM
god damn you guys no body cares this is a useless forum,v8 slayer you and you boyfriend pearly want idrc rules you go and rent the track and have an event of your own?4kruzin i understand what your sayin i will put in bluntly,bitches,whiners and cry babies stay home,you know who you are,i shouldn't have to name names,if you wanna race go if you wanna wreck it for everybody stay home .i have kids and i feel like i watch them 24/7 while i read this forum oh wait my kids don't whine this much :thefinger:

Mark Seto
February 10th, 2003, 10:52 AM
Whoa out of control.

Let's start over.