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TurboBlueNX
November 15th, 2001, 09:53 AM
This was taken from one of the mailing lists that I subscribe to, I think it pretty much sums up a fwe things you need to consider before slapping a turbo on a car or making a turbo car go faster:

The conversation goes something like 'Hey I can do this for cheap, and look, here is the proof I found'

The response is below the quoted text:

>A quick skim on Google shows that the DSM people seem to approve, too:

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Isuzu+NPR+FMIC

Couple" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q=Isuzu+NPR+FMIC

Couple</a> of things:

DSMtalk (the link that is referred to there) is the zoo where all of the monkeys hang out. I wouldn't trust any tech advice from there, and it's usually the opposite that is true. That place is a bunch of keyboard jockies
with 13 second cars.

Also, don't be cheap on an intercooler. A good griffen or spearco core with end tanks can be had new for &#36400 or &#36500. Get some pipes made locally and for &#36600 to &#36650 you will have a very nice IC setup with good flow (you will actually know the flow instead of guessing like when you steal parts from somewhere else) and good efficiency.

I absolutely cannot say this enough. Do NOT be cheap with a turbo car, it will bite you in the ass. If you can't afford it, don't slap a turbo on it.

Always remember this:

good, cheap, fast: pick any two

-Jay
97 GSX 11.8 @ 119.7
(good and fast, not cheap)

Loose
November 15th, 2001, 11:59 AM
The place I think people cheap out the most is the engine management when it comes to turboing a naturally aspirated car.

You pretty much have to go with a standalone EMS if you want to go anywhere. The little old Vortech FMU just doesn't cut it in most cases.

Tunning is another area where people cheap out. They will dump thousands into their motor, but won't pay for dyno time, or to have someone tune it. This is the case for people who don't have the knowledge or tools to tune by themselves.

Not only does this lead to poor performance, but it often results in blown motors http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

CYA
November 15th, 2001, 12:25 PM
ahem... andy... are you listening? hahaha. just rubbing it in man. i so want to see your car run the numbers. it's got parts... you just have to tune it.

but a standalone isn't always needed. sure i've never done research in building an import but i know EFI systems offer their PMS for several cars. the PMS system isn't the greatest thing since it's what i call "connect the dot" tuning but still... mustangs use it all the time and have gone deep into the 9's with it. that's enough control for 600-700hp. i'm sure the majority of guys won't be running a true 600-700hp import. thing is you have to keep in mind that if you have to give advice to people telling them that they should tune their cars... telling them to get a standalone... that's just way over their heads.

cya

Loose
November 15th, 2001, 02:50 PM
True true, I take back my comment: "You pretty much have to go with a standalone EMS if you want to go anywhere. "

Depends on what your goals are. If you want a stockish car with mild turbo kit, there are some great kits that use stock ECU's. They usually run 5-7psi boost and only have some basic sort of fuel enrichment, with no timing control.

I'm thinking of 2 turbo Honda's that somebody on this board built. One has standalone, one had an FMU and a boost dependent ignition box thingy. One ran perfectly, and the other blew up.

What does your car have Sam?

T51R
November 15th, 2001, 02:52 PM
Hi Loose, how you doing? you in Calgary yet?

Well heres what i think how money should be spent on turbo cars.

40% hard part
60%fuel and tuning

fuel management and tuning is most important ,
If you dont have the money or dont think it is important enought then most likely you will be spending the money you saved fixing the car when it blows.

you have to pay to play:)

reno
November 15th, 2001, 05:13 PM
I would agree that the Standalone allows for more tuning and potentially more horespower than a FMU, but I wouldn't say its the determining factor in safety - I know guys who blew up their cars improperly or overtuning a standalone. I guess the lack of tuning with the FMU benefits the "know enough to cause damage" people.

In lower boost situations, The FMU's work well given the price and should be supplemented with a good Ignition device. Ignition devices should be very high priority in low boost turbo apps, IMO higher than an intercooler.

CYA
November 15th, 2001, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by -></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 1:50 pm on Nov. 15, 2001
What does your car have Sam?
[/b]

my car has the stock computer but with a custom burned chip. long story but the dyno tuning didn't go as well as i planned last year. i'm probably missing about 80hp in the mid rpm range and about 50
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 1:50 pm on Nov. 15, 2001
What does your car have Sam?
[/quote]

my car has the stock computer but with a custom burned chip. long story but the dyno tuning didn't go as well as i planned last year. i'm probably missing about 80hp in the mid rpm range and about 50+ off peak. i'm considering shipping my car out to have someone tune it for me.

you know what's funny now that i think about this whole ecu and fmu thing? my friend wayne, with the other fast green mustang runs an fmu and no tuning. hahaha. trouble free since day one. he's on his 5th year now. 11.3's @ 124mph. horseshoe up his @ss i tell ya! i would never recommened anyone try that. lol.

cya

Loose
November 15th, 2001, 08:03 PM
T51R,
Yeah I'm here, started work about a month ago. Still looking for a place and/or roomate. Man it sucks, there isn't much vacancy here.

Sam,
I think the Mustang guys have the chip/fmu thing down to a science. Lucky guys.

Tell Wayne to give a Jack a big hug. Maybe some of his good luck can rub off on Jack http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

TurboBlueNX
November 15th, 2001, 08:58 PM
Yeah, see that's where I fell short.

I sort of got brainwashed by some list members who run re-programmed stock ECU's and run low 12's on race gas.

Thing I never realized is, they can just drive over to Jim Wolf Technology and have it "tweaked" Sofar the car is running quite good all things considering.

I'm way past buying and installing a new Standalone system.

KillerRabbit
November 15th, 2001, 09:48 PM
Andy:
Let me know if you want a hand tuning your car once spring rolls around.