| water injection - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Transporter |
| what are your thought on running water injection in your car to reduce the factor of pre detonation....in highly hot air car...like RX7 |
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| WookeysRX7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Transporter
what are your thought on running water injection in your car to reduce the factor of pre detonation....in highly hot air car...like RX7
dont bother spending that much, just get a FMIC and then you'll be set, or get a damn turbo hood for your intercooler cause your intercooler isn't getting cool air! :thumbsdown: |
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| Transporter |
| well this is to reduce air temp even more and make is super dense...it is not overly expensive to get the kit ..it is just the thought of adding water..and i wanted to know if anyone on this board has tried it...or read about it or reserched..it..some ppl i talk to say...water in engine you crazy where as others say..diffrent all the wrc cars use aqua injection...to bring temp way down..means denser air..,,more power |
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| Transporter |
| btw..turbo hood fugly..and it won't help my intercooler...since it is top-side mounted none the less.... |
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| REFLUX |
how would the aquamist be controlled?
Doesn't it need a standalone? If it does, that adds another thousand or two to the cost. |
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| Anonymoose |
Its a cheap and sloppy band-aid method to control a heat problem. And also potentially dangerous if you rely on it too heavily and the system fails.
An efficient intercooler would be a better bet. |
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| SplineZ |
Just spray it on the intercooler :)
soobies do it, and and they have the IC's placed in almost the same f@cked up place as the RX7T2's..
James Z |
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| WookeysRX7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymoose
Its a cheap and sloppy band-aid method to control a heat problem. And also potentially dangerous if you rely on it too heavily and the system fails.
An efficient intercooler would be a better bet.
Thats what i said, but hey i guess fellow rx7 turbos guys dont no anything. :rolleyes: So far Rahul, everyone has agreed with me. :bigthumbup: |
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| Transporter |
look i have done considerable amout of reserarch o water injectionstudied various graph..and yes i am bit biased..but the theory works..and in the eurpoean countries it is the next new thing..but out here in america..a lot ppl frown from water.....
intercooler's work but are not 100% efficent...but where as results have shown if done correctly water injection can be 100% efficent...i started this tread to see what ppl thought of a new idea..for sport compacts...here let me show you what i have been reading and the best thing i found was www.aquamist.co.uk
read the site and then tell me what your thought are
regarding spending another 1000 to manage it..well it comes with pre assembled uints to plug and work with like setting the nos to work only when you floor it.
plugging the ijector right after the outlet on th intercooler..to spary approprite amount of water at desired rpm!! i am jsut testing and reseraching..and getting opinions fromppl..maybe someone on this site tried it out or is planning on doing it or just read about it and wanted to share their thoughts
btw: i will put in a fmic!! |
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| Transporter |
| i want to bring some units in from this company (ERL) maybe i will spark some buyers by discusiing it. |
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| SilverZ24 |
| I have been interested in this myself since I can't hook up an IC to my supercharger. I'm just not sure if I trust them enough... |
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| Transporter |
new technology always gets the evil eye at first but after a while it become spart of lifestyle...it will be good thing to try and test...and they have made some very simple installation kits that seem very error proof and will not cause harm
our cars drink water as they breath there is moisture in the air only difference is now we control it |
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| SplineZ |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverZ24
I have been interested in this myself since I can't hook up an IC to my supercharger. I'm just not sure if I trust them enough...
How does your SC attach to your engine? Ive seen intercoolers for GM's 3800SC that fit below the SC ontop of the intake... They are liquid to air IC's, and are quite expensive :\
Depending on how your SC is attached, it might be difficult to use a water spray..
James Z |
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| Spoolin MX6 |
| there is a diy alkali/water injection website around, very informative, and seems pretty easy to do, will try to find a link for you. |
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| SilverZ24 |
quote:
Originally posted by SplineZ
quote:
Originally posted by SilverZ24
I have been interested in this myself since I can't hook up an IC to my supercharger. I'm just not sure if I trust them enough...
How does your SC attach to your engine? Ive seen intercoolers for GM's 3800SC that fit below the SC ontop of the intake... They are liquid to air IC's, and are quite expensive :\
Depending on how your SC is attached, it might be difficult to use a water spray..
James Z
The supercharger actually replaces the intake manifold and bolts directly to the head right in the front of the car. There is only about an inch of space between the charger and the rad so unfortunately no room to bolt anything between the charger and the head.
I would love to be able to cool things off since the engine runs extremely hot already with only 6psi of boost. Next summer I want to run 8psi and if I could keep it cooler it would be great.
Transporter - I would definitely be interested in looking at a kit if you bring any in. :) |
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| VerbotenZ34 |
I was under the impression the water sprayer on the Subaru STI was primarily intended to combat heatsoak, due to the IC's placement,....? Am I incorrect?
Verboten :unsure: |
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| nissanz32 |
| Like others have said I would get aa fmic first but I would run the injection kit as well.For those days at the track when heatsoak can be a problem that thing can become handy. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by VerbotenZ34
I was under the impression the water sprayer on the Subaru STI was primarily intended to combat heatsoak, due to the IC's placement,....? Am I incorrect?
Correct. Intercooler spraying and water injection are two completely different topics, not related at all.
Intercooler spraying is introducing a fluid (compressed gas, or liquid like water, etc.) onto the outside air-side surface of your IC for quenching/cooling.
Water injection is misting water directly into the intake tract, to both cool the incoming air and raise the overall detonation threshold (similar effect to raising octane). |
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| Pro Drag |
Water injection has been around for over a decade, it is nothing new.
Some see it as a band-aid, to make up for an inefficient intercooler.
Some see it as a replacement for an intercooler. |
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| Transporter |
that is true water injection has been around but it has not been wildy suggested for a daily driver car or the sport compact enthusiat ((sp?) sorry)
many dragesters and wrc use water injection from what i have read...and i don't see how it is a band aid application if it is very efficent and cheaper than gas or nos. |
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| SilverZ24 |
| That was my other idea for the spring.... add a 35 shot of nitrous. Should cool things down nicely for a short period of time anyway. :D |
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| SplineZ |
Propane injection...
James Z |
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| 4G63PWR |
| IMO, you could also just spray co2 onto your IC, it will bring the air temp down to below freezing. Liquid Co2, when changing from a liquid to gas form, gets down to about -100*F. Co2 is much colder than water and its sticky, so it will stay on your IC for a while. Co2 is also cheap, you can get it at any paintball store. Also, its mush more reliable than water injection, and can't screw anything up if your just using it as an IC sprayer. |
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| Transporter |
you must ahve mis understood....when i say water injection i am talking like fuel injection it actually goes throught the motor...
when you want to refer to water spraying...co2 is better cause it will freeze the intercooler...which is very effective |
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| monztur |
| Water injection works great...... I've been using it off and on my car for the last 20 years. It' s been around for the last 80 years ,so its not exactly new technology.Their are way more plus's than neg'g on this system .You can also build your own if you choose. If you built your own, it can cost anywhere from 150.00 to 400.00 and if you order a kit it can range from 400.00 to 1000.00 It can cool just as well as a good intercooler when set up properly.You also have complete control..and it removes all trace of combustion residue in your combution chambers. I have taken engines apart that had water inj. with 20000 km plus and every piston and valve was the original metal color with no... carbon deposits...zero.. So I'am sold.. :bigthumbup: :bigthumbup: |
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| 4G63PWR |
quote:
Originally posted by Transporter
you must ahve mis understood....when i say water injection i am talking like fuel injection it actually goes throught the motor...
Yes I knew what you were talking about, just stating another meathod of putting denser air into the motor. Their can be many dangers to running water injection if not set up proporly, personaly, unless your going to get a perfesional to install it or you really know what your doing, I don't recomend it. IMO
Water injection can mean nice hp increases if done properly, don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but you want to have it installed right the first time. |
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| prophet_ca |
| My neighbor who owns typhoon which already has an efficient water/air intercooler put water/alcohol injection into his truck.... When he dynoed it with more boost made more power and didn't have detonation compared to when he raised boost without it... Lots of people say it is a band-aid, but if used correctly it can open your tuning window up a lot and help you make more power... In theory it is a sound idea |
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| THEONE |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymoose
Its a cheap and sloppy band-aid method to control a heat problem. And also potentially dangerous if you rely on it too heavily and the system fails.
An efficient intercooler would be a better bet.
:blink: You should let the WRC teams no this info since many of them use this technology! |
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| Pro Drag |
| I am not trying to be a fear monger but has anybody heard of hydrolock? |
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| SplineZ |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
I am not trying to be a fear monger but has anybody heard of hydrolock?
yea, but i dont think you'd want to pump in that much water :)
James Z |
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| THEONE |
quote:
Originally posted by SplineZ
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
I am not trying to be a fear monger but has anybody heard of hydrolock?
yea, but i dont think you'd want to pump in that much water :)
James Z
The kits these days use high quality pumps and atomize the fuel so HYDROLOCK is not a concern unless you put drasticaly bigger jets in then are recomended! That would be the same as putting to big of Nitrous jets! :) |
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| crxcel |
| i have it and the only problem i have had is the hose blows off my pump. It is a spearco kit, and it does definelty help. |
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| Transporter |
crxcel: what car do you have it installed in...
prodrag: obviously cause of the hydrolock comment you made..i must say you did not read the link i attached to my message which shows how much water a car drinks under normal use..due to moisture in air and how much more the aquamist system adds.. the holding tank for the water injection in your car is not overly huge maybe a litre or so..and it is only activated upon full throttle..depending on how you set it up.
check out the site; www.aquamist.co.uk
very interesting stuff!! |
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| GSR-TH |
| My old car an 87 GN I had new Je pistons crower rods, ported stage 2 heads, new headers with a T4 frame PT72 on it and a sheetmetal intake. With almost stock (8:1 on my motor, stock is 7.8:1) compression I ran 24 pounds of boost on pump gas with an SMC progressive alky controller. Once a week i'd test the pump (pull nozzle out and press test pump button it turns on the pump. If alky sprays youre ready to roll) and i'd check the alky level periodically, it didn't need filling too much as I used a 5 gallon fuel cell in the trunk. Without the alky my car would start to detonate at 17-18 pounds of boost, car had accel gen 7 and was spetter tuned. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Transporter
prodrag: obviously cause of the hydrolock comment you made..i must say you did not read the link i attached to my message which shows how much water a car drinks under normal use..due to moisture in air and how much more the aquamist system adds.. the holding tank for the water injection in your car is not overly huge maybe a litre or so..and it is only activated upon full throttle..depending on how you set it up.
I know the tank isn't huge. I have known about water injection systems for years.
I was using that statement to launch another educational thread. ;) |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by GSR-TH
My old car an 87 GN I had new Je pistons crower rods, ported stage 2 heads, new headers with a T4 frame PT72 on it and a sheetmetal intake. With almost stock (8:1 on my motor, stock is 7.8:1) compression I ran 24 pounds of boost on pump gas with an SMC progressive alky controller. Once a week i'd test the pump (pull nozzle out and press test pump button it turns on the pump. If alky sprays youre ready to roll) and i'd check the alky level periodically, it didn't need filling too much as I used a 5 gallon fuel cell in the trunk. Without the alky my car would start to detonate at 17-18 pounds of boost, car had accel gen 7 and was spetter tuned.
How much power did this car make?
Do you have a dyno sheet? |
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| Transporter |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
quote:
Originally posted by Transporter
prodrag: obviously cause of the hydrolock comment you made..i must say you did not read the link i attached to my message which shows how much water a car drinks under normal use..due to moisture in air and how much more the aquamist system adds.. the holding tank for the water injection in your car is not overly huge maybe a litre or so..and it is only activated upon full throttle..depending on how you set it up.
I know the tank isn't huge. I have known about water injection systems for years.
I was using that statement to launch another educational thread. ;)
aahhhh...hydrolock the good and the bad parts...wait min there are NO good parts...put when one does hydrolock can it be something simple liek just drain the engine or will it be, you screwed...
cause when i broke the coolant seal on my engine my rotors would fill up with coolant as loong as i got pulled to 60km/h and just drop it gear it would start but damn..was that engine toast!!! smoke like crazy ..oh that was long ass day..then after the second stop and teh car running dry we opted for water and made it look like a steam engine..out the rear as you drove. but all fixed now and my exhaust is steam cleaned inside out so it is all good...but i can say i air cooled my engine and rotary engine at that too |
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| SilverZ24 |
| If you have one of these systems on your car I'm assuming you wouldn't be able to use it in our winters since the water would freeze and I'm guessing anti-freeze wouldn't be such a good idea... :dunno: |
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| prophet_ca |
| Im pretty sure you use a alcohol/water combo, at least that what my neighbor uses.. then again he doesn't drive his typhoon in winter, but alcohol/water combo wouldn't freeze and would be better anyways.. |
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| import_3000 |
| FMIC with a redirected windshield sprayer system to cool it down |
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| crxcel |
| my car is a s/c crx and mine is boost activated, at 3 lbs it kicks in. And with the little it sprays i dont think it would ever hydrolock unless my car was at idle with the unit spraying |
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| tt398 |
| I use the AquaMist system.. |
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