| JeffZ28 |
I was ready on here and looking at other sites, and well Why do you put a "jap spec" engine in your car? its still used, still 5k, and still lacks real HP.
When for hte same money you culd put a SBC in it and it would be a fricken rocket. and its not even like custom stuff would have to be made for many cars as LOTS have a kit to drop it in.
Parts for them are cheap too.
And in a 2800lb car even stock that engine will throw that car around REAL NICE.
So ya, why swap in the engine that you do?
PS, this starting when reading the silvia thread, 5k for an engine that still is only rated for 220hp... and like 4 ft-lbs |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
I was ready on here and looking at other sites, and well Why do you put a "jap spec" engine in your car? its still used, still 5k, and still lacks real HP.
When for hte same money you culd put a SBC in it and it would be a fricken rocket. and its not even like custom stuff would have to be made for many cars as LOTS have a kit to drop it in.
Parts for them are cheap too.
And in a 2800lb car even stock that engine will throw that car around REAL NICE.
So ya, why swap in the engine that you do?
PS, this starting when reading the silvia thread, 5k for an engine that still is only rated for 220hp... and like 4 ft-lbs
Well first off, weight. The small block chev weighs ALOT more than an SR20 and would throw the balance of the car way off. Second off, to adapt a 350 Chev to a Nissan S13 chassis would take at least the same amount of money. You would have to upgrade the cooling, different transmission, custom driveshafts, new rearend, different steering rack, modify the suspension, etc. Not to mention to horror of actually getting that engine to run. All this for what? An extra 50hp and 100 lb-ft of torque? The extra weight of the engine pretty much makes that extra power moot.
You need to go read up more on the SR20 before you make comments like this. I have no idea who you know that paid $5000 for an SR20, but they got raped hardcore.
Chromey |
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| DeathBy240 |
As ChromeDragon said, if you paid 5000 for your engine, you got taken for a ride.
If I wanted a Chev engine under my hood I would have bought a fuckin' Camaro. It would be a helluva lot cheaper to do that.
I bought a Nissan however, and I plan to keep it a Nissan. Also the SR has an amazing amount of potential. The SR drops in, mounts up, and the only hard part of the swap is rewiring everything. Much easier than what you would have to do to get a small block under there.
You cant fully understand why people do the swap until you have driven a car with it done. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
After all the work I've done to my car, problems have been few and far between.
Reliability, that's why. |
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| VerbotenZ34 |
Because an LT1 won't fit in my car :tear:
Verboten |
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| SRBURG13 |
Cause some of us like to keep it reliable, efficient, and as far away as American as possible.
Plus, the SR20DET is turbocharged. Endless amounts of power. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by SRBURG13
Cause some of us like to keep it reliable, efficient, and as far away as American as possible.
Plus, the SR20DET is turbocharged. Endless amounts of power.
Reliable? Efficient? Who said a domestic is none of the above? Surely you can't honestly believe that.... |
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| 180drifter |
| I drive a 240sx with a sr20det in it. My company worktruck is a sonoma with a 4.3L V6 and my brother has a V8 in his silverado. I realize these trucks are heavier than my car and would have less traction in the back, but regardless my car can easily rape either of them. The sr20 is a light high reving tubo charged engine and it was made for the 240sx chassis, this is not a frankinstein swap. Therefore you get a car that is fast and also handles incredibly well. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
Reliable? Efficient? Who said a domestic is none of the above? Surely you can't honestly believe that....
See the above mentions "RWD" and take that as an asset :) |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by 180drifter
I drive a 240sx with a sr20det in it. My company worktruck is a sonoma with a 4.3L V6 and my brother has a V8 in his silverado. I realize these trucks are heavier than my car and would have less traction in the back, but regardless my car can easily rape either of them. The sr20 is a light high reving tubo charged engine and it was made for the 240sx chassis, this is not a frankinstein swap. Therefore you get a car that is fast and also handles incredibly well.
You're comparing your heavily modified 240sx to a Silverado truck? That's not fair - of course yours better win.
I'm not debating which is easier to swap (As of course it should be easier to drop an SR20 into a 240SX), or the handling (As that of course would be changed with the weight of the engine).
However anyone who claims that the import engine is always more reliable, always more efficient and always produces more power is just plain ignorant. |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
However anyone who claims that the import engine is always more reliable, always more efficient and always produces more power is just plain ignorant.
Yes,
I got 40 MPG on the highway with my LT1.
and in the city I get 22 on average, and I've got a heavey foot.
Reliable, I know of 3 LT1 personally that have made 150k km with no less then plugs wires, and oil changes. and htey arent nice on there cars.
the little bit of extra power.... well I have seen a near stock Lt1 in a Rx7 that ran a 12.x and he is still competitive in autocross.
change the enigne and you gotta compensate with suspention.
the 200 lbs isnt going to make much different if you set up for it.
318's end up with almost the 50/50 weight of there M3 brother with a 350 in it.
Going back the the silvia thread, still says 5k for some engine, dont know what one it is though.
I have the biggest beef with "jap spec" give me a break, your using an engine thats used and used to running off 100+ octane. its not much different from what was in the car to start with. and coudl get the same power or more for the same or less money from a stroke and rebiuld. |
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| captain nismo |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
I was ready on here and looking at other sites, and well Why do you put a "jap spec" engine in your car? its still used, still 5k, and still lacks real HP.
When for hte same money you culd put a SBC in it and it would be a fricken rocket. and its not even like custom stuff would have to be made for many cars as LOTS have a kit to drop it in.
Parts for them are cheap too.
And in a 2800lb car even stock that engine will throw that car around REAL NICE.
So ya, why swap in the engine that you do?
PS, this starting when reading the silvia thread, 5k for an engine that still is only rated for 220hp... and like 4 ft-lbs
You sir, are an idiot.:mad: :drama: |
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| REFLUX |
let's keep it civil
no need for flames!:fingersx: |
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| gtfiero86 |
Because an LT1 won't fit in my car
It can fit in a fiero but not in a cavalier? :dunno: |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by captain nismo
You sir, are an idiot.:mad: :drama:
please, tell me why.
I just dont get it.
jap spec can lick my ass |
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| REFLUX |
grow up
immaturity begets immaturity
JeffZ28: you ask why people prefer japanese engines over domestic ones....why not explain why you prefer domestic engines over japanese engines???
and indicate why you like domestic cars over japanese cars as well (because an engine isnt the only important thing in this hobby of ours :D ) |
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| 180drifter |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
You're comparing your heavily modified 240sx to a Silverado truck? That's not fair - of course yours better win.
I'm not debating which is easier to swap (As of course it should be easier to drop an SR20 into a 240SX), or the handling (As that of course would be changed with the weight of the engine).
However anyone who claims that the import engine is always more reliable, always more efficient and always produces more power is just plain ignorant.
Did i say anything at all about my engine being more reliable? I dont think so. And yes I realize that my car should be faster than the trucks due to my mods and there weight, if you look at my post I said that. My point is that I have driven the trucks as well, and I am not impressed with the way there engines feel. They have plenty of torque and make a lot of noise, but IMO are not nearly as fun as a small displacement engine with a turbo that fires you to a 7500 grand redline in seconds. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by 180drifter
Did i say anything at all about my engine being more reliable? I dont think so. And yes I realize that my car should be faster than the trucks due to my mods and there weight, if you look at my post I said that. My point is that I have driven the trucks as well, and I am not impressed with the way there engines feel. They have plenty of torque and make a lot of noise, but IMO are not nearly as fun as a small displacement engine with a turbo that fires you to a 7500 grand redline in seconds.
Turbo + RWD = Fun
Definetely agree with you there.
And I'm sure you agree:
Torque + RWD = Fun
Both are fun - and I'm sure everyone will agree to that.
I just don't like the domestic bashing myself because it's usually based on the idea that "domestics suck".... |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
And I'm sure you agree:
Torque + RWD = Fun
Well for one, I like the way my car looks.
two, most "imports" are too small for my likings I jsut dont feel safe, I dont care what test says a echo does good in a test, a 1 tonne truck is going to steam roll one of them, hell any number of the soccer moms would do the same.
Thats the same reason I wont get a Jbody. or many other cars.
Some imports I would like, G35, M3, S4, 993 turbo.... and the list goes on. I cant afford them, or the insurance, one or the other.
I really dont have anything against any car untill they give me a reason.
Still not my point, whats the hype about J spec?
I had some tool tell me today that his civic had a "jspec" engine, and was making 900 hp and 1100 ft lbs NA.
We are going to race when the roads are dry, I say 100 bucks.
thats not my point either.
Its kinda why do people think Jspec is king shit? I mean give me a break, drop the largest for that body stock engine and trow the few grand you save at it and you'll be much faster. |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
Its kinda why do people think Jspec is king shit? I mean give me a break, drop the largest for that body stock engine and trow the few grand you save at it and you'll be much faster.
people use jdm engines because:
1) ease of swap. This is due to the fact that Japan, for whatever reason, sends North America the detuned/raped versions of their high performance engines. So using a jdm engine = all the goodies we never get
2) ease of swap. Second part is because it is a "stock" jdm engine, it will use all the stock mounts, wiring (or a big portion of the stock wiring) & will mate onto the tranny perfectly (stock engine = stock tranny = fit)
there are a lot of people out there that throw money into their stock engines as well
but sometimes it is more economical to start off with a better base
think of it this way...why do some people swap out their base model mustang engines for cobra engines?
sure there are lots of people that throw money into their current base engine but some people prefer to start off with something already pretuned for high power
to answer your previous posts:
making a domestic engine fit and work on an import car is often difficult.
yes I know of the LT1 swaps into rx-7s but I think that is quite the exception. Using the same engine in a Honda (FWD) would not work, and finding a transmission that would work with Nissans/Toyotas/etc would be difficult and EXPENSIVE.
Cost is the main thing with choosing japanese import engines over domestic engines
each Japanese car production company has their own version of "north american rapage"
the most notable is the Nissan 240sx and the KA24DE vs the JDM SR20DET.
KA = normally aspired, 2.4L torquey, more American like (torque monster v8s)
SR = turbo, 2.0L, revvy, unlike v8s
Hondas generally send out the same engines but just detuned, they wont go so far as to engineer an entirely new & redesigned engine just for north america
The Toyota Supras and MR2s have the same engines I believe, same goes for the Mazda RX-7s.
hope that helps a bit ;) |
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| SRBURG13 |
Pretty much what I was gonna say.
Easy to swap in for the price. And that motor was designed for that chasis, and is the stock motor in the 240sx (180sx/silvia) in Japan. Thats what all of the hype is about. We got raped here in North America. |
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| GeoffDonk |
| I heard about someone dropping a small block chevy into their s12. Problem with that - the car drives like a peice of shit. Sure it will take anything in a straight line, but try turning and the car's a mess. |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffDonk
I heard about someone dropping a small block chevy into their s12. Problem with that - the car drives like a peice of shit. Sure it will take anything in a straight line, but try turning and the car's a mess.
it's all in the location of the engine & the car itself
an LT1 in an 2nd gen RX-7 still enables the car to keep it's 50/50 weight distribution
and that's comparing the 1.3L rotary to the honking v8! |
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| JeffZ28 |
hmm interesting.
makes sence.
FYI, they are detuned to meet emissions averages here, same reason the skip shift is in the 6 speed Fbodies.
Now I dont know for sure, but from the little bit of searc hthat I did in responce to Reflux's post I found that the biggest differnce in jspec and us are the heads.
I would think and american engine with even better heads would be better.
With that mindset I go back to why people thing Jspec is king shit for no reason besides fast and the furious said it was cool (sorry its late, dont know if that will hold water with me even in the morning) |
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| 2003specv |
| I think the reason you hear about them so much is because this forum is geared towards import owners. These people drive imports so they post about import related engines. I mean seriously, you don't see an abundance of f-body owners here do you? What do you expect us to talk about? |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
hmm interesting.
makes sence.
FYI, they are detuned to meet emissions averages here, same reason the skip shift is in the 6 speed Fbodies.
Now I dont know for sure, but from the little bit of searc hthat I did in responce to Reflux's post I found that the biggest differnce in jspec and us are the heads.
I would think and american engine with even better heads would be better.
With that mindset I go back to why people thing Jspec is king shit for no reason besides fast and the furious said it was cool (sorry its late, dont know if that will hold water with me even in the morning)
Actually emissions are much stricter in Japan than they are here. Many new vehicles there fail after being on the road a couple years just because the restrictions are tightened up all the time. |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
Actually emissions are much stricter in Japan than they are here. Many new vehicles there fail after being on the road a couple years just because the restrictions are tightened up all the time.
ya, thats why they burn a high octain fuel too.
But in north america there are standards that say all your vehicals as a collective must meet this x value as an average of the fuel effieciency.
Also, its not just on here that I see "jspec" its EVERYWHERE, I mean that kid at school Iwant to kick in the teeth, I think hes to stipd to breath. one other thing he said to me was something along the lines of "the octane number of fuel means you have that same number more HP then what the manufacture lists, so if you have to 200 hp, and use 93, then you really have 293"
he went on to say that a stock cavalier (maybe it was neon?) would beat a ferrari if the cavalier had jet fuel in it.
But everywhere is Jspec, i see kids with Jspec stickers on there car, hear guys talking about it all the time, and read about it constantly on the net.
I jsut dont see why? I mean, yah an engine that has 50k km on it but if "jspec" wow, I'm going to be mad fast yo.....
I do see the point where yes it can have more power then its american counterpart, but does the cost always warrent that over the america one with mods on it? |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
Actually emissions are much stricter in Japan than they are here. Many new vehicles there fail after being on the road a couple years just because the restrictions are tightened up all the time.
And I believe this is why we actually get their engines with such low mileage (Or claim to it)? |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
Now I dont know for sure, but from the little bit of searc hthat I did in responce to Reflux's post I found that the biggest differnce in jspec and us are the heads.
I would think and american engine with even better heads would be better.
I imagine the pistons might be different as well because of the different octane used (Since they'd take advantage of it to up the compression).....
I would think it'd be cheaper to rebuild a stock engine, but once you take into account all the other things you need to do (As you have to do an ECU), it may come out to be cheaper and less hassle (Since you get the ECU the car is tuned out of the box to run that engine) to swap in a JDM. |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
I imagine the pistons might be different as well because of the different octane used (Since they'd take advantage of it to up the compression).....
I would think it'd be cheaper to rebuild a stock engine, but once you take into account all the other things you need to do (As you have to do an ECU), it may come out to be cheaper and less hassle (Since you get the ECU the car is tuned out of the box to run that engine) to swap in a JDM.
I guess that would make sence too, but how much could programming cost?
I know for my car its 200 USD for a custom tune (flashed on) or about 300 USD to get the stuff to do your own (better know what your doing, or it could take a long time)
Well in anycase, I will continue to think jspec is kinda dumb, but not to the same extent as when I started this thread. |
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| SplineZ |
Any of the cars that had their weight distribution effected probly used iron block and iron headed SBC's. If you use an aluminum block, and aluminum heads they weight difference will be minimal..
It all comes down to education... You can make your US spec motor as powerful as a Jspec motor.. but why put the money into it when you can get a jspec motor for cheaper than it'd cost to make your US spec motor just as powerful..
dun get me wrong im all about american muscle, but imho its not really suited for the driving style associated with imports..
James Z |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
I do see the point where yes it can have more power then its american counterpart, but does the cost always warrent that over the america one with mods on it?
1) don't think that just because every kid wants a jspec engine that they are the best. Look at how many ricers & morons out there that think NAWS is the only way to go & take F&F as the bible! jspec is just a fad so people hop on the band wagon.
but you are quite correct, sometimes using a jspec engine IS totally pointless & a waste of time/money. But referring back to the 240SX thread...swapping in an SR20DET usually is of more benefit (and possibly cheaper) than boosting the stock KA24DE
2) and no, using jspec is not always more beneficial than using/modding a USDM engine (i.e. this is an uncommon situation but the JDM & USDM rotary engines in RX-7s are essentially the same, so there is no substantial benefit in using a JDM rotary than a USDM rotary)
I say it is an uncommon situation because (as I stated before), Japan usually sends North America detuned engines and it is rare that the USDM has an engine that performs as well or better than a JDM engine (or even a European Japanese engine).
basically, you seem to be surrounded by a bunch of kids who don't know what they're talking about and just want to sound cool/knowledegeable (talking outa their ass).
do us all a favor and follow your gut feeling (kick them in the teeth)!!! |
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| SplineZ |
these are the same kids that pull up to you at the lights and rev in their stock corollas, and civics... :)
James Z |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
basically, you seem to be surrounded by a bunch of kids who don't know what they're talking about and just want to sound cool/knowledegeable (talking outa their ass).
do us all a favor and follow your gut feeling (kick them in the teeth)!!!
Thanks for the info its easier to understand when someone that knows what they are talking about says it.
SBC LS1, all aluminum, I bet its lighter then some engines that come out of some imports. I know its lighter then GM's quad four.
Lots of people try, like a yellow 88 gt.... (had a car that looked like yours try and race me in the summer) ;) |
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| GeoffDonk |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
ya, thats why they burn a high octain fuel too.
But in north america there are standards that say all your vehicals as a collective must meet this x value as an average of the fuel effieciency.
Also, its not just on here that I see "jspec" its EVERYWHERE, I mean that kid at school Iwant to kick in the teeth, I think hes to stipd to breath. one other thing he said to me was something along the lines of "the octane number of fuel means you have that same number more HP then what the manufacture lists, so if you have to 200 hp, and use 93, then you really have 293"
he went on to say that a stock cavalier (maybe it was neon?) would beat a ferrari if the cavalier had jet fuel in it.
But everywhere is Jspec, i see kids with Jspec stickers on there car, hear guys talking about it all the time, and read about it constantly on the net.
I jsut dont see why? I mean, yah an engine that has 50k km on it but if "jspec" wow, I'm going to be mad fast yo.....
I do see the point where yes it can have more power then its american counterpart, but does the cost always warrent that over the america one with mods on it?
:D. If a cavalier or neon could handle jet fuel (which it most definatly cannot, not just talking about the engine but the strain on the tranny and just everything) it could in theory beat a ferrari.
EDIT: but you should seriously kick this guy in the teeth. |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffDonk
:D. If a cavalier or neon could handle jet fuel (which it most definatly cannot, not just talking about the engine but the strain on the tranny and just everything) it could in theory beat a ferrari.
EDIT: but you should seriously kick this guy in the teeth.
actually, it will run with jet fuel in it. very poorly mind you. remember that avgas is more or less desiel.
So its going to run like shit. |
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| GeoffDonk |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffZ28
actually, it will run with jet fuel in it. very poorly mind you. remember that avgas is more or less desiel.
So its going to run like shit.
oh... i really didnt know what jets flew on.
K... well lets talk rocket fuel then... although i think rocket fuel is solid. |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by GeoffDonk
oh... i really didnt know what jets flew on.
K... well lets talk rocket fuel then... although i think rocket fuel is solid.
Depends on what your talking about right.
easy thing to think of, space shuttle, liquid O2 and solid fuel boosters.
so both.
liguid O2 into any cars engine would blow it apart, would be kinda neat ot see actually. |
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| captain nismo |
Sorry for my last reply Jeffz28. I have nothing against domestic v8's; hell i own one(69 chevelle convertiable with a 350 in it) But due to the massive size of that car, i dont think it pulls as well as my 240sx does, not too mention the handling factor, where the 240sx>>chevelle. I know that you can make limitless power out of a chevy smallblock or a bigblock for that matter. If i was making an all out drag racing machine, i may consider that. There is a guy in the states that drives a LT1 powered 240sx that he also runs nitrous on. The amount of hardship and money that gut went through is amazing, just to put a smallblock in his nissan. It pulls pretty good in the 1/4 mile from what i've heard but it most likely handles like ass. The 240sx stock, has an almost perfect 50/50 f/r weight ratio. Will the all aluminum block SR20det in it i believe it is exactly 50/50 in the S13 models. You can ask for anything better than perfectly neutrallity when handling is concerned.
Secondly, i prefer the high-end power of a smaller displacement turbocharger car. For a reasonable sum of money, i could totally go crazy with an SR20 and have 500+whp and 10 sec timeslips. There are multiple tuners in the US and Japan that have done this, and still have great relability. Theres no way i would need this type of power for a street driven car, but it is possible.
As for the whole octane rating in Japan, i thought they rated their gasoline differently, so there 100+ octane is only like 93ish here? Anyways, sorry for the long-ass post.
:beer: :bthumbup: |
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| FeedTheNeed |
quote:
Originally posted by 2003specv
I think the reason you hear about them so much is because this forum is geared towards import owners. These people drive imports so they post about import related engines. I mean seriously, you don't see an abundance of f-body owners here do you? What do you expect us to talk about?
Ain't exactly a shortage of us either... :mad: |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
Well, to throw this into the hat...
SR20DE Motor ('Merican spec)
De-tuned NA version of turbo'd version of the J-Spec Turbo motor
Almost as strong as it's Turbo'd motor because of similar components, forged and micro polished fully counterweighted crank, thick piston rods, stout block with full girdle, aluminum head, extremely simple head design with low pressure springs on the valve actuators, there have been some examples of DE heads in excess of 200+ thousand k on the head with little or no wear but these are prone to vavle float at high rpm.
NO TURBO...
SR20DET (One of the GTI-R variety)
Everything the NA 'Merican version is and more.
1 Throttle body for each intake
Trick oil channeling and piston oil squirters
Turbo, Turbo, Turbo...
Can't think of much more at the moment...
But the Japaness spec motor is superior to the 'Merican spec one... |
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