| Discuss: bucket seat + harness options - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| REFLUX |
This is a copy&paste of something I posted in another forum under the topic of bucket seat + harness options/safety/etc.
Please add in your own comments, constructive criticisms, experiences & knowledge as there seems to be much discrepancy on this topic.
quote:
From almost a year of consistent research on various internet forums & websites, I have come up with the following guidelines regarding bucket seats (racing shells), harnesses and rollbars/cages:
1) If you plan on modifying the very things that are meant to protect you & keep you alive, how much is your life worth to you?
2) Bucket seat + harness = MUST have at least a 4 point rollbar (AutoPower, Kirk).
3) 4pt harness is minimum for autox/soloII but is not acceptable for Solo I/Road Racing/Open track (lapping). Minimum is 5pt for Solo I/Track usage.
4) 6pt is better than 5pt. The 2 crotch straps of a 6pt harness go AROUND your groin, like a mountain climbing harness, where as 5pt goes INTO your groin. Unless you want smooshed balls or a high-G load reverse wedgie/camel-toe from hell (ladies), go 6pt.
5) Proper padding for ANY kind of rollbar/cage is REQUIRED (especially for street driven vehicles). And proper does NOT mean:
http://www.ioportracing.com/images/product/rbp.jpg
PROPER padding is:
http://www.ogracing.com/eshop/image...r%20padding.jpg
(found here: http://www.ogracing.com/eshop/home.asp?categ=175)
Think of it this way, if you are able to compress the padding with your hand/finger/fist/elbow...imagine how much the padding will compress in an accident/crash with your 5lb head hurtling at 50+mph? And also remember, there is a thick metal pole behind that padding.
6) There is some controversy about the mounting points of the seat + harness. If you think about it, a roll cage/bar involved in a high-impact accident (worst case scenario) has the potential to detach/deform. Same goes for the shell of the car. If your seat is attached to the shell and your harness attached to the bar, what if the shell deforms (thus potentially moving your seat) but the rollbar stays? Then the tightly strapped harness may no longer be tightly strapped but instead loose and useless. Or what if the rollbar bends/moves? Your tightly strapped harness may end up crushing you.
The best answer? Go to a reputable roll cage/bar builder/installer, someone that races and/or has made professional race cages/bars (and hopefully tested by customers who have crashed their cars). Ask for their advice.
7) I know in Canada, FIA approved seats do NOT need a seat-back brace because they have been crash tested and have certain characteristics that meet high safety standards. A seat-back brace is a metal plate & bar that attaches the back of the seat to the bar of the roll cage/bar that is immediately behind the seat. An example of seats that require such a thing are Kirkey seats. Needing such a brace does NOT mean the seats are not safe, in fact MANY professionals use Kirkey seats.
8) Reclinable seats should NOT use harnesses on the street. They are similar to stock seats and when used in conjuction with the stock seat belt, you keep similar standards to the original design of the stock safety system (something which has been proven to be safe by the car maker through tens of thousands of dollars of research & testing)
9) For those of you who want to know what you should & should not do when it comes to purchasing a more supportive seat for the street, here's a quick summary/rule of thumb:
- If you want a 1 piece seat (racing shell, bucket seat, etc), go all out & get a 6pt harness & 4 point rollbar, along with all the associated high-density, SFI approved padding.
- If you want a reclinable seat, you can still get away with a roll bar & 4/5/6pt harness but if you're driving on the street, use the stock belt.
hope that helps!
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| mwdguy |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
9) For those of you who want to know what you should & should not do when it comes to purchasing a more supportive seat for the street, here's a quick summary/rule of thumb:
- If you want a 1 piece seat (racing shell, bucket seat, etc), go all out & get a 6pt harness & 4 point rollbar, along with all the associated high-density, SFI approved padding.
- If you want a reclinable seat, you can still get away with a roll bar & 4/5/6pt harness but if you're driving on the street, use the stock belt.
Thats the most important one right there..... on the street ... use your stock belt. |
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| Bucktown |
| camel toe...i alwyas called it a ninja slipper..... |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by mwdguy
Thats the most important one right there..... on the street ... use your stock belt.
I'll agree, unless your running around with your helmet and a HANS device.
its too bad lots of seats dont make it so that the stock belt can be easily used.
Also the human head is more then 5 lbs |
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| MrHeavyFoot |
A 4 pt harness is not required for autox unless your car is prepared/modified to a certain level.
As mentioned above, I don't think you should use a 4/5/6 point harness on the street whether your seat is reclineable or not. Makes it very difficult to shoulder check (amongst other things). |
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| mwdguy |
quote:
Originally posted by MrHeavyFoot
I don't think you should use a 4/5/6 point harness on the street whether your seat is reclineable or not. Makes it very difficult to shoulder check (amongst other things).
that and its illegal |
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| JustinL |
Like you said, this is an area in which many people have differing opinions. Generally I agree with what you wrote, but my opinion does differ in some areas. Here's a bit of what I hope is constructive criticism/opinion.
1) Generally agree, but price does not always ensure safety.
2)Generally agree, but I wouldn't recommend a harness for the street, therefore wouldn't recommend a roll bar either.
3) Disagree, I don't think a 4pt harness is necessary (and from pt2 a roll bar, and race seat from pt8) are necessary for autox/Solo2. But, absolutely for anything higher speed with walls and more solid obstacles.
4) Can't comment, never submarined with either.
5) Again not much experience, but I think good judgement should be used in this area... if you're head is going to potentially bounce off it then pad it. Cross members and such probably don't need to be padded.
6) Agree, get a good cage/bar mounted properly and mount the shoulder straps to the proper locations on the harness bar. A roll cage should be significantly stonger than the shell of the car.
7) Can't comment, but I would guess that seat back brace/ roll cage is not for the street, but are for the track.
8) Agree harnesses are not for the street.
9) This point seems to conflict with other points. Reclining seats don't have slots for anything more than 4 point. So if you are going to the track get an FIA seat. I wouldn't recommend a harness for the street even with a race seat.
My current set up is a pair of one-piece sparco sprint seats, which are FIA homologated and using the stock seatbelts and mounts. I'm really happy with the way I have it set up now as I can still shoulder-check and the new seats provide great support as well as saving a ton of weight. I'm sure there are some who see what I've done as a comprimise, and it is... I've sacrificed some comfort and ease of use for increased support and reduced weight. |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by mwdguy
that and its illegal
I thinks its cause in a side impact its hold everything but you head so securily that the neck injury would be mulitplied many times. |
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| REFLUX |
yes my apologies for not being more thorough. The original intent of the post was primarily for a wide & general brush of harnesses & buckets seats.
But as MrHeavyFoot has mentioned, a 4pt harness is not REQUIRED for autox. Some people don't even think rollover protection is a must for autox.
And for Solo I related accidents/crashes, head restraint is something that can save your life & prevent neck injuries (major or minor).
There is the HANS:
http://www.hansdevice.com/
And there is a growing popularity for the ISAAC device:
http://www.isaacdirect.com/
I have read about first hand experience of a racer who crashed & gave much thanks to the ISAAC for preventing major neck injuries (maybe death?).
I believe this is the thread I read about an ISAAC being tested:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=791965
The following is also a good thread, different users speak of various head-restraint devices:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=653180
One more for add'l info/reviews/opinions:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothrea...6615&page=1
And does anyone know how much a human head weighs? I only took an educated guess on the 5lb weight. 8-12lbs maybe? |
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| JeffZ28 |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
And does anyone know how much a human head weighs? I only took an educated guess on the 5lb weight. 8-12lbs maybe?
I'd say at least that, go rest your head on a scale??? |
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| HJr |
| in regards to # 4 : I personally have rolled a car major like w/ a 5 point harness, and it did no ill deed to my 'boys'. Most of the weight doesnt go into you junk, its on your hips and shoulders, where it should be. Not to say that a 6 point may not be better, Im just throwing my 2 cents in. |
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| ehrgeiz |
| I wouldnt advise against the idea of a harness without a roll cage. If the roof comes down and you have a 4/5/6 point you are staying up right, and the roof will break your neck. With the 3 point you can move down with the roof and pushed down into the passenger side. |
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