| Insomniac |
October 2004 Insurance Act
(For information only.)
“Automobile Accident Insurance Benefits Amendment Regulation”
I just read a good chunk of the “Automobile Accident Insurance Benefits Amendment. Wow. I hate it. It talks of how “minor injuries” are handled and the insurance cost structure for the liability coverage. I was most interested in the latter.
To determine how much your premiums are, you first have to select how much liability coverage you want. This is anywhere between $200,000 and 2,000,000. Each amount of liability has a different base premium. Obviously, the more coverage you have, the more it costs.
Then your base price is multiplied by a percentage based on your grid rating. Your grid rating is based on your at fault claims history and years driving, and is a number between +16 and -15. +16 is a really bad driver with lots of at fault crashes, and -15 is a saint. 0 is equivalent to a brand new driver with no at fault collisions. Each grid rating has a percentage assigned to it. The percentage for rating +15 was 338%, for grid step 0 is it was 100%, and for -15 it was 50%
I believe they call the number we have just calculated (base premium x grid factor %) the “GRID PREMIUM”
Then, this price is given an additional surcharge based on your ticket history (I think only the ones on your driver’s abstract). Tickets are broken down into traffic safety convictions (normal tickets), serious traffic safety convictions (seem to be pink tickets, ie/ speeding 50+, racing, etc.), and crimal code convictions (ie. criminal negligence causing death, etc…).
Hopefully this all makes sense:
- select amount of liability
- determine grid rating
- multiply price of liability by a factor based on your grid rating
- add surcharge based on ticket history.
I did the math and was surprised to find my insurance would actually go up with this system.
I have the suggested prices and surcharges in front of me and wouldn’t mind calculating some sample premiums so long as you provide me with this:
- # of at fault claims in the last 6 years.
- # years since each at fault claim
- years driving
- # of tickets in lets say, the last 2 years, and if the ticket was safety, serious, or criminal.
- and if possible, what you pay for liability, per year
All calculations will be for $1mil liability, and as a primary driver. For $2mil liability, add 9%.
I am curious to see how many people’s rates go up, and how many go down. |
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| JustinL |
I'll bite.
1. Zero at fault claims
2. N/A
3. 9 Years driving w/ insurance
4. 0 Tickets |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
I'll bite.
1. Zero at fault claims
2. N/A
3. 9 Years driving w/ insurance
4. 0 Tickets
edit, i miscalculated: $1089, for liability alone |
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| Insomniac |
| I'd like to add that the rate schedule makes not gender discriminations, and as such, the people who will experience the largest premium increases are females. |
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| mr_sars |
1. 0
2. N/A
3. 1...:(
4. 0
5. 1 mil
:dunno: I'm confused, wouldn't the type of car also be a factor in determining this? |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by mr_sars
1. 0
2. N/A
3. 1...:(
4. 0
5. 1 mil
:dunno: I'm confused, wouldn't the type of car also be a factor in determining this?
$1881 for liability alone |
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| PraxRX7 |
yea the new system is bullshit cause in 3 years I will be 25 payin 700/year for insurance where by in the new system I will be paying over $1000
1. 0
2. N/A
3. 5 years driving
4. 0
Paying $2200/yr now, was paying $1200/yr last year due to a mistake on their end :bthumbup:
when I am 25 it will be $1089/year and that is $300/yr more than what it would be when I am 25 under the new system...meaning the new system is bullshit and the insurance companies still make the same amount of money by just balancing it out onto the more experienced drivers.
AND to have 2 vehicles that ONLY I will drive insured, that number is doubled because they add liability for a second vehicle as if there were 2 of me going to be driving them at the same time...hell I dont even let my own father drive my cars.
Yay government! :blue: |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by PraxRX7
yea the new system is bullshit cause in 3 years I will be 21 payin 700/year for insurance where by in the new system I will be paying over $1000
1. 0
2. N/A
3. 5 years driving
4. 0
Paying $2200/yr now, was paying $1200/yr last year due to a mistake on their end :bthumbup:
Premium would be: 1485 (~$700 savings) |
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| JustinL |
Damn, I'm getting owned by the government. 1089$ is a lot more than I'm paying now and I'm 24. Under the old system I would have seen a nice little decrease for turning 25.
There are a few other issues though... What happens to group insurance rates? Can they still give discounts to members of associations? I also thought there was going to be an across the board reduction of 5% to the current rates. Lastly, what about the rate freeze, is that being removed?
Can someone point me to a link with the actual legislation so I can read it for myself?
Prax- how do you have 5 years experience (if my calculations are correct) if you are only 18? EDIT Ha nevermind, I see you edited your post :)
Justin |
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| PraxRX7 |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Damn, I'm getting owned by the government. 1089$ is a lot more than I'm paying now and I'm 24. Under the old system I would have seen a nice little decrease for turning 25.
Yea were getting PWN3D! |
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| SuperJay |
1 @ fault accident
5.75 years since above accident
8 years of driving
1(stunting 2 years ago in November)
$1159/6months |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Damn, I'm getting owned by the government. 1089$ is a lot more than I'm paying now and I'm 24. Under the old system I would have seen a nice little decrease for turning 25.
There are a few other issues though... What happens to group insurance rates? Can they still give discounts to members of associations? I also thought there was going to be an across the board reduction of 5% to the current rates. Lastly, what about the rate freeze, is that being removed?
Can someone point me to a link with the actual legislation so I can read it for myself?
Prax- how do you have 5 years experience (if my calculations are correct) if you are only 18? EDIT Ha nevermind, I see you edited your post :)
Justin
From what I understand, these are maximum rates. Companies could still poteintially offer lowered rates for groups (you are probably w/monnex, eh? me too!)
I don't know where this is online, I got it from a client. |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by POX
1. 1
2. 3
3. 6
4. 1
$1584 |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperJay
1 @ fault accident
5.75 years since above accident
8 years of driving
1(stunting 2 years ago in November)
$1159/6months
$1683 a savings of $635 |
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| Insomniac |
I think most people on this board will see a rate decrease since they are young (16-21) and are male.
The people this will hurt are adults with established driving records. |
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| 2000z |
http://www.autoinsurance.gov.ab.ca/belowgrid.html
Actually, if I read this right, they have to give you a rate on the new grid or keep you at your current market rate, whichever is cheaper. And deduct 5% if you're experienced with a clean record. Wouldn't that mean that your rate will stay the same or get better unless you have a really shitty record that puts you high on the grid, in which case you deserve to pay more? |
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| Insomniac |
| ah crap, it's online |
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| JustinL |
Ok, so that grid is only a cap. That's good to hear. People in my boat are going to see our current rates drop 5% regardless. Hopefully turning 25 will still net me a nice little drop again.
quote:
Companies could still poteintially offer lowered rates for groups (you are probably w/monnex, eh? me too!)
I'm actually with the Health care proffesional union so I'm stuck with ING Novex.
Justin |
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| WeDgE |
1) Zero
2) N/A
3) If since 14 y.o., then 6.5 years...If since 16 y.o., then 4.5 years
4) Zero tickets ever
5) Currently pay ~$2000 per year just for $1mil. liability
If it makes a difference I did complete the driver training course when I was 16. |
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| stealth |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
[B]
- # of at fault claims in the last 6 years.
- # years since each at fault claim
- years driving
- # of tickets in lets say, the last 2 years, and if the ticket was safety, serious, or criminal.
- and if possible, what you pay for liability, per year
1. None
2. None
3. 1 Year
4. 1 Minor Ticket
5. I pay 4400/year for liablilty now for 1 million.
Thx
Sam |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
ah crap, it's online
the calculator/equation?
1) 1 at fault
2) 0 years since accident
3) 5 years
4) 0 tickets
5) $3290/year liability |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by WeDgE
1) Zero
2) N/A
3) If since 14 y.o., then 6.5 years...If since 16 y.o., then 4.5 years
4) Zero tickets ever
5) Currently pay ~$2000 per year just for $1mil. liability
If it makes a difference I did complete the driver training course when I was 16.
$1584 |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
1. None
2. None
3. 1 Year
4. 1 Minor Ticket
5. I pay 4400/year for liablilty now for 1 million.
Thx
Sam
$1881 |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
the calculator/equation?
1) 1 at fault
2) 0 years since accident
3) 5 years
4) 0 tickets
5) $3290/year liability
$1980 |
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| SplineZ |
For shits and giggles..
1) 0 At Fault
2) N/A
3) 7 Years
4) 3 Speeding Tickets
5) 4300/yr 1mill liab
James Z |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by SplineZ
For shits and giggles..
1) 0 At Fault
2) N/A
3) 7 Years
4) 3 Speeding Tickets
5) 4300/yr 1mill liab
James Z
$1737
Fuck, you guys are all saving money.
Where is the money coming from? The pockets of established driver's like me and Justin.
:mad: |
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| 2000z |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
$1737
Fuck, you guys are all saving money.
Where is the money coming from? The pockets of established driver's like me and Justin.
:mad:
What are you talking about? I just posted the link up top and you will only get an increase if you're such a shitty driver that you're way up the grid and don't qualify for the under the grid competitive rates. Justin just said his rates go down 5%.
:dunno: |
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| Insomniac |
| I'm sorry, but you need to do more research, because you're wrong, but I'll leave it at that. |
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| mr2_import |
-faults -0
-n/a
-1 ticket 3 years ago
-1 million lib.
I pay 3,400 a year right now
:dunno: |
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| rx7turboracer |
1. 0
2. 0
3. 4 years
4. 2 tickets
5. 6336 for pl and pd
this insurance thing probably is gonna work out for a while. then in a year or so the insurance companies will bitch about not making money and they will be aloud to do what they want again. just my thoughts
Jason |
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| rage2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
The people this will hurt are adults with established driving records.
Yep. I've been bitching about this new system for the last year on beyond. I keep getting bashed because I'm an old fart, and the younger guys are seeing an advantage. Here are some discussions and rants:
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread....6891#post356891 <-- back in 2003!
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?threadid=28570
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?threadid=49786
quote:
Originally posted by 2000z
Actually, if I read this right, they have to give you a rate on the new grid or keep you at your current market rate, whichever is cheaper. And deduct 5% if you're experienced with a clean record. Wouldn't that mean that your rate will stay the same or get better unless you have a really shitty record that puts you high on the grid, in which case you deserve to pay more?
The "market" rates are not regulated. Nor are the comprehensive rates. They're just monitored. The money for the savings for the < 25 guys have to come from somewhere... |
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| JustinL |
quote:
About 80 per cent of Alberta drivers are good and experienced. These drivers generally now pay premiums that are comparable with other western provinces, and under the reformed auto insurance system, their premiums for basic insurance will be be rolled back five per cent once the new system is in place, and will remain competitive in the future.
I wouldn't worry about our rates going up insomniac, this is what the government site has to say. The grid is only if you are a new driver or have a bad record, the competetive marketplace will still be where 80% of us fall.
I'm not too concerned right now because I don't have to renegotiate until 2005... unless my rates are supposed to go down, then I'll be talking to my insurance company.
Justin |
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| JustinL |
Rage, you make a good point, but I think the legislation reads in such a way that companies will be forced to give us a 5% break on our current rates. To this, I'm sure they will comply, but you're right those insane profit numbers are going to have to come from somewhere. In my little utopian world, the insurance companies would take the hit... but here in the real world other rates are going to skyrocket.
I'll bet flood insurance for your homes in Edmonton is going up... comprehensive car insurance will rise, business insurance will rise. Companies don't like to see mega profits starting to slip, so they will tip-toe the line of the law and and give everyone what the government tells them to and then will bend all the rest of us over in any way they can.
IMHO,
Justin |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
I wouldn't worry about our rates going up insomniac, this is what the government site has to say. The grid is only if you are a new driver or have a bad record, the competetive marketplace will still be where 80% of us fall.
I've looked at the government website and I find it ambiguously worded and misleading. Everyone is on the grid.
I am reading the actual draft to the ammendment to the insurance act, not some website that the gov't put up to summarize what they are doing. Read the web with a grain of salt, and consider that it is worded to not piss off people (political BS).
I don't mean this in a mean/"i'm better than you all" sort of way, you just have to realize that the website does not give you the full picture, only a snap shot of what they want you to see.
Happy Camping! |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by mr2_import
-faults
-0
-n/a
-1 ticket 3 years ago
-1 million lib.
I pay 3,400 a year right now
:dunno:
been driving for how long? |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by rx7turboracer
1. 0
2. 0
3. 4 years
4. 2 tickets
5. 6336 for pl and pd
this insurance thing probably is gonna work out for a while. then in a year or so the insurance companies will bitch about not making money and they will be aloud to do what they want again. just my thoughts
Jason
$1980 Basically your ticket surcharge perfectly balances out with any discount you would get for your driving experience. |
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| Flex |
1. 0
2. N/A
3. 18
4. 0
I think Im gonna get boned by this new system. |
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| arabian_ryda |
- 0
- 0
- 0
- 0
-200,000 liability paying 4200 a year.(new driver) |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by Flex
1. 0
2. N/A
3. 18
4. 0
I think Im gonna get boned by this new system.
$990 (probably ~$300 boneage?) |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by arabian_ryda
- 0
- 0
- 0
- 0
-200,000 liability paying 4200 a year.(new driver)
$1980 for $1mil liability
$1683 for $200,000 liability
You should phone your ins.co and get you liablity bumped up to a mil. It won't cost much more, and is worth it. |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
0 at fault claims in the last 6 years.
N/A # years since each at fault claim
5 - years driving
1 speeding ticket, 1 MINOR stunting (3 demerits)
I pay about 3800/yr for Liability alone, they consider stunting like... ummmm almost careless driving |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by SlowAzzPorsche911T
0 at fault claims in the last 6 years.
N/A # years since each at fault claim
5 - years driving
1 speeding ticket, 1 MINOR stunting (3 demerits)
I pay about 3800/yr for Liability alone, they consider stunting like... ummmm almost careless driving
$1856 :eek: |
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| Scintillater |
0 accidents
0 tickets
0 claims
9 years driving insured. |
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| arabian_ryda |
| i want 1 mil coverage but its an extra 600$ and im sure its well worth it but i wana see how its works out for a month or 2 then ill start to make changes maybe to 500,000. |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
$1856 :eek:
sweet jesus.. sign me up :blue: |
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| SplineZ |
Ya think thats good? My parents got me a quote for in BC.. they said WORST case scenario for 1 mil liab, is 1100/yr.. and because im almost 25, they said it could be as low as 800 :)
James Z
quote:
Originally posted by SlowAzzPorsche911T
sweet jesus.. sign me up :blue:
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by Scintillater
0 accidents
0 tickets
0 claims
9 years driving insured.
$1089 |
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| drea |
2 at fault accidents, one was 2 years ago, one will be 2 years in January
3 speeding tickets, one 10 over, one 20 over, one that a lawyer is fighting and that is pending...
been driving for 2 years
paying $6449 for liability (and sadly it's only $500 000 liability)
I would love to know what i'm going to be paying
I've been trying to find info on what % it goes up for speeding tickets...
oh and do you know if tickets from accidents count or if that is just included with the increase with an at fault accident? |
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| Kiddo |
what about me?
- 0
- N/A
- 2 years insured (ama has 5 on their record because I took their drivers training)
- 0
I bet mine will be low enough to make me happy |
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| Flex |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
$990 (probably ~$300 boneage?)
Is that for just liability????
I pay just over $1000 for full coverage now. |
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| Mekanik22 |
Do me! Do me! Right here! Me! Me!
0 at fault claims
0 years since each at fault claim
2 years driving
1 speeding ticket, 15 km/h over
$280/month for the cavalier, $320/month for the 240SX. |
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| JustinL |
I'm shocked how much some of you pay for insurance. I have a good paying job and I would have trouble justifying an expense like 320$ a month. I'd suggest you guys try to find group coverage if you can. If your parent's are teachers and you are a student, get in with the ATA group plan. If you are a member of a unioun, see if they have group insurance. Even being U of A alumni gets you into a plan.
This may be a moot point though with the new grid coming into effect, but still worth checking into.
Justin |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
$1980
better than what I'm paying now...
we'll see what the real figure turns out to be in October :)
thanks for the "estimate" :) |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by drea
2 at fault accidents, one was 2 years ago, one will be 2 years in January
3 speeding tickets, one 10 over, one 20 over, one that a lawyer is fighting and that is pending...
been driving for 2 years
paying $6449 for liability (and sadly it's only $500 000 liability)
I would love to know what i'm going to be paying
I've been trying to find info on what % it goes up for speeding tickets...
oh and do you know if tickets from accidents count or if that is just included with the increase with an at fault accident?
$4811 |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by Kiddo
what about me?
- 0
- N/A
- 2 years insured (ama has 5 on their record because I took their drivers training)
- 0
I bet mine will be low enough to make me happy
$1782 |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by Flex
Is that for just liability????
I pay just over $1000 for full coverage now.
yes
$990 is the lowest rate for anybody on the grid. |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by Mekanik22
Do me! Do me! Right here! Me! Me!
0 at fault claims
0 years since each at fault claim
2 years driving
1 speeding ticket, 15 km/h over
$280/month for the cavalier, $320/month for the 240SX.
$1782 Remember, this is liabilty only. Do you know how much you pay for liability on your cars? |
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| scooby_dooby |
heh this is sweet, can you do me?
- 1 at fault claim,
- 2 years ago
- 3 years driving
- 2 tickets, speeding 10-20 over,
- paying 2800/year |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by scooby_dooby
heh this is sweet, can you do me?
- 1 at fault claim,
- 2 years ago
- 3 years driving
- 2 tickets, speeding 10-20 over,
- paying 2800/year
$2475
Please, everybody, remember that this is for LIABILITY only, and does not include collision or comprehensive (which you probably have). Also, driver training will knock off another %10 or so. |
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| SkaterX |
1 @fault
2 Years Ago
6 Years of Driving
0 Tickets
Currently pay $2200
Thanks!!! |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
Originally posted by SkaterX
1 @fault
2 Years Ago
6 Years of Driving
0 Tickets
Currently pay $2200
Thanks!!!
$1683
This is the last one I'm doing.
I now realize that the new premium structure gives young drivers and drivers with poor records a big break, at the small expense of the larger body of experienced good drivers. |
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| scooby_dooby |
| thx for the legwork! |
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| slamdB |
I was a new driver paying 450/month on my p.o.s. worth $250. Because of no driver's training. I could only keep up the payments for about ten months before I was broke. I was in grade 11 at the time. Gotta get me some driver's training.
Later |
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| Kiddo |
| right now im paying approx $4400 a year for just liability with a squeeky clean record.... heck the insurance isn't even under my name... its under my parents and im under their insurance plan |
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| arabian_ryda |
| why dont u go under your own name that way u can start your own record and still probably pay the same. |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
I'm shocked how much some of you pay for insurance. I have a good paying job and I would have trouble justifying an expense like 320$ a month. I'd suggest you guys try to find group coverage if you can. If your parent's are teachers and you are a student, get in with the ATA group plan. If you are a member of a unioun, see if they have group insurance. Even being U of A alumni gets you into a plan.
This may be a moot point though with the new grid coming into effect, but still worth checking into.
Justin
I don't know about good paying... depends on the hours for me, but mine is $420 a month and it will be adjusted to 380 because I turned 21 1/5 thru the way of my policy. |
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| Keith303 |
I was quoted at around 9-10k when i turn 19 in august,
with one at-fault claim, one serious charge(careless driving) and one non-serious charge, (speeding) it would now go down to around $3500, from 10k, Im :blue: |
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| Kiddo |
| if i go under my own insurance it'll cost me approx 6000/year thats what the guy quoted me at the same place so I just went the cheaper way around |
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| scooby_dooby |
why 6000 a year?
just find a better insurance company, you're getting screwed,
when i first got insured i was only paying 2400/year and i thought that was pretty high, |
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| Insomniac |
| Where is that Xpensive guy? I'm sure he has something "intelligent" to say about all this... |
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| scooby_dooby |
i'm still in the "I'll believe it when i see it" camp, we'll see i guess, honestly i just don't see rates truly dropping that much, i bet they find loopholes
my insurance just happens to be up for renewal in october, i guess i'll see. |
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| Scintillater |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
$1089
FUCK! that's like almost $200 more than i pay now! |
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| scooby_dooby |
quote:
Originally posted by Scintillater
FUCK! that's like almost $200 more than i pay now!
$90/month? suck it up!! |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
quote:
Originally posted by scooby_dooby
$90/month? suck it up!!
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| Kiddo |
| yea AMA insurance is gay but so far I haven't found anything cheaper, meloche won't even insure me |
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| bruce_eli |
1. Zero
2. N/a
3. 4 years
4. Zero
5. 2900/year liability |
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| mr2_import |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
been driving for how long?
3years sorry |
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| Xpnsve |
I told eveyone this new system was a SHAM.
Sign the petition at apaip.com, it's the only way we can do anything about getting public insurance in alberta. |
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| Buddyworm |
For now I'm happy with the system because I'm in the let's-fuck-them-over young driver's bracket. Personally I don't think it's fair that young drivers have to pay obscene insurance rates to get the experience they need just to make those rates drop.
B-Wurm :lol:
**edit: While I'm at it...
1. 0
2. 0
3. 0
4. 0
|
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| SplineZ |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
$1683
This is the last one I'm doing.
I now realize that the new premium structure gives young drivers and drivers with poor records a big break, at the small expense of the larger body of experienced good drivers.
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