| Ry96Z26 |
what are reasonable grounds for ticket dismissal.
on two of my tickets, the postal code is wrong, and on the other one, its not even filled in.
are these even worth trying to fight? i am planning on fighting the exhaust one because the officer didnt have any instrument to determine how much louder "if any" my exhaust is. he didnt even hear it, i pulled ver right away, and was doing maybe 10-15km/hr when he got me...he said "that exhaust looks loud, thats illegal" |
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| Mustard |
i dispise yer kind.... :banghead:
(the ticket get-er-outer's... not the loud exhuast kind.) |
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| redbaron303 |
| This ticket was basically given as Ryan was leaving the driveway.... it's complete BS!!! Typically if he was disturbing the peace or something like the asshole that lives up the street from me I'd say hand him a ticket but I don't think this one is justified! Go see what they say if you can make it there Ryan, no sense in paying anything you don't have to pay and they'll let you know what you need to pay. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Ry96Z26
what are reasonable grounds for ticket dismissal.
on two of my tickets, the postal code is wrong, and on the other one, its not even filled in.
are these even worth trying to fight? i am planning on fighting the exhaust one because the officer didnt have any instrument to determine how much louder "if any" my exhaust is. he didnt even hear it, i pulled ver right away, and was doing maybe 10-15km/hr when he got me...he said "that exhaust looks loud, thats illegal"
"Looks loud." .....he can see sound????? :eek:
Good luck with the exhaust one, after talking to the Prosecutor I just bit the bullet and paid the fine because it would have cost me more to try and prove myself innocent than to pay the fine.
The problem with the Loud Exhaust law is that the required volume limit is not defined and is therefore a discretionary thing that is up to the officer. If you wanted to take it to court, go get a decible meter and get someone to sign off on your car's noise level and then compare that reading to other common conditions, vehicles, and laws and you should be able to win.
Yesterday I specifically asked the prosecutor to define "Excessive" and he said that it was something that was considered offensive by some and he wouldn't tell me who the "some" was, so basically if the officer gives you the ticket you're screwed. :rolleyes: |
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| 2003specv |
| What a load of shit. I hate BS like that.:mad: :mad: :mad: |
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| redbaron303 |
You got a ticket in your Stang snugs?
I believe there is a serious problem with giving officers the power to hand out tickets that can't really be defined to a tee! Stunting tickets, exhaust tickets, etc.... They're discretionary and whose to say that the officer isn't being biased and writing the ticket because he dislikes your car (although we know everyone does their job with no bias :rolleyes: ) Shouldn't certain laws be a little more defined and less cash cowish? I think it's more reasonable to say "you're exhaust is too loud, it exceeds the 80db test with my db meter when i'm 10 feet off the back of your car when the allowable limit is 70db..." vs "it sounds lout" "it looks loud" "it is loud". |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303
You got a ticket in your Stang snugs?
I believe there is a serious problem with giving officers the power to hand out tickets that can't really be defined to a tee! Stunting tickets, exhaust tickets, etc.... They're discretionary and whose to say that the officer isn't being biased and writing the ticket because he dislikes your car (although we know everyone does their job with no bias :rolleyes: ) Shouldn't certain laws be a little more defined and less cash cowish? I think it's more reasonable to say "you're exhaust is too loud, it exceeds the 80db test with my db meter when i'm 10 feet off the back of your car when the allowable limit is 70db..." vs "it sounds lout" "it looks loud" "it is loud".
I agree that sometimes they are unfair, but in order to give police the power to ticket those who deserve it, they will need power to give "discretionary" tickets. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
I agree that sometimes they are unfair, but in order to give police the power to ticket those who deserve it, they will need power to give "discretionary" tickets.
No. For physically specific things like tint, exhaust volume, etc... there should not be any discretion involved because cops are not trained in any way shape or form to be able to determine these quantities by themselves without a measuring device. Because these are measurable, quanitifiable values it should be a cut and dry specific requirement such as percentage passing or decible level at a specific distance from the vehicle.
Tickets like stunting, reckless driving, etc... are where the discretion should be. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303
You got a ticket in your Stang snugs?
Read my other threads about the tickets. You'll laugh, you'll cry, its really an emotional rollercoaster of posting. :D |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
I agree that sometimes they are unfair, but in order to give police the power to ticket those who deserve it, they will need power to give "discretionary" tickets.
Discretionary is fine.... if there are guidelines to follow that involve more than an officers judgement. Maybe there are and we're not aware of them, but if there are then this particular ticket shouldn't have been given. Simpler said than done though. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
No. For physically specific things like tint, exhaust volume, etc... there should not be any discretion involved because cops are not trained in any way shape or form to be able to determine these quantities by themselves without a measuring device. Because these are measurable, quanitifiable values it should be a cut and dry specific requirement such as percentage passing or decible level at a specific distance from the vehicle.
Tickets like stunting, reckless driving, etc... are where the discretion should be.
What? Of course they need discretion.
If the officer can't see inside your window when he pulls you over, and the law states (Along with common sense) that he should, you don't think he should be given the ability to give you a ticket?
If he's talking on his radio, and a car drives beside him and the exhaust is loud enough he can't hear the person he's talking to, you're damn right you deserve a ticket.
I'm all against the typically exhaust ticket people get, however there are those that people deserve because they rev their cars straight to 5000RPM every time they shift. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
What? Of course they need discretion.
If the officer can't see inside your window when he pulls you over, and the law states (Along with common sense) that he should, you don't think he should be given the ability to give you a ticket?
If he's talking on his radio, and a car drives beside him and the exhaust is loud enough he can't hear the person he's talking to, you're damn right you deserve a ticket.
I'm all against the typically exhaust ticket people get, however there are those that people deserve because they rev their cars straight to 5000RPM every time they shift.
Like I said, no discretion should be allowed for these easily quantifiable and measurable physical things. If they want to ticket for physical things (like speeding, tint level, sound level, etc.) they should have some type of measurement to back it up (ie. radar/laser, tint meter, decible meter, etc...).
In the situations you describe the proper (and widely accepted procedures in most other areas) would be for the officer to make the stop and then use the tint meter or decible meter to spot check the car and then give the appropriate ticket.
In the case of tinted window you describe since the local law states that there is to be NO TINT on the front 3 windows it is still not a discretionary thing because having limo up front is a clear, inarguable violation of the law. For the asshole who revs to redline at every shift the more appropriate ticket would be speeding, stunting, driving without due care, etc.
It is not appropriate for police to give out random tickets based on the possibility that a violation was commited without the requirement of physical proof that would be like giving them a ticket lottery. They could ticket anyone for anything regardless of whether their charges are accurate or reasonable and leave it up to the now "guilty" party to prove their innocence. :( |
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| MX5 Miata Guy |
Got news for you...each and every ticket an officer gives out is discretionary... It's their option to give you a ticket, a warning, or simply a lecture...all based on the causes and situation which brought on their stopping you.
Without that, they're be no ability for them to do their jobs, or for us to go about our business.
Don't like the laws as they're inforced: vote, make your voice heard in public, run for politics, etc... or simply enjoy your "road tax" and get on with life. |
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| redbaron303 |
Road tax.... I like that..... Until it screws up the insurance :(
Seriously you're right without them having the ability to use discrestion there is no point in them trying to do their job, no breaks for us, and maybe no tickets written for them?
As I mentioned, I would like to see the guidelines it takes to write this sort of ticket that way where an officer has misused their judgement and given out a ticket it can be fought using facts and not hoaky excuses! Does that make sense? I don't think it's okay for them to just hand out what appear to be random tickets because someone has a nice car and is idleing outta the block and then we go to fight that ticket b/c we don't think it was just and there isn't much more to go on other than "officers discretion" and the section of the traffic code he wrote us up for.... |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by MX5 Miata Guy
Got news for you...each and every ticket an officer gives out is discretionary... It's their option to give you a ticket, a warning, or simply a lecture...all based on the causes and situation which brought on their stopping you.
Its discretionary for them to choose to enforce a law with a ticket when you are in violation or to simply issue a verbal warning.
-EDIT-
In other words, they have the discretion of either enforcing the law, or letting it slide. They should not have the discretion of determining what constitutes a violation for simple, non-subjective, physical quantities because what is determined to consitute a violation will vary by person and be inconsistent.
-END EDIT-
The point that I'm trying to make is that for easily measurable things (like speed, tint, sound, etc.) there should be standards of measure that define what constitutes a violation instead of an officer being able to simply state "I think your car looks loud.", and in most other places these values are set out and specifically specified within the appropriate laws (such as the laws associated with speeding).:) |
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| bomberman |
| I just went to the Law Courts to fight a littering ticket i got while driving. The same balding overweight guy talked to me and was a total jerk, very unprofessional. I said thank you, and requested a later payment date. The lady at the booth called me up again and said the ticket was cancelled because the police officer didn't cross off one or two boxes. She said the whole ticket is now void and she cancelled it! |
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