| specialedition |
| Im sure this has been done before and i know that you cant have a loud muffler or one that is too big. Im wonder what IS too big and what is too loud. What do they mesure that by. I got off with a warning but for next time I was wondering what they can get me on. |
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| Mekanik22 |
Anything larger then the stock outlet is illegal. Anything louder then stock exhaust is illegal. By louder I don't mean a hole in the exhaust pipe although thats illegal too, but any modifications to make the car louder. That basically sums it up for you without having to read that "exhaust code 513" shit...
Use the search button too, thats why it's there:
http://forums.780tuners.com/search....rder=descending |
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| penance |
I'm suprised there isn't a sticky in the Local Law Enforcement forum that says 'Enlarged exhaust questions' and then in it it says.....
................If you have to ask, its probably illegal:lol: |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Mekanik22
Anything louder then stock exhaust is illegal. By louder I don't mean a hole in the exhaust pipe although thats illegal too, but any modifications to make the car louder.
Got a link to the law/bylaw that states that? :dunno: |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Got a link to the law/bylaw that states that? :dunno:
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
I got a ticket for this last night... I think this is bullshit.. My muffler "outlet" is stock size, its the tip that isn't.
Link to TA |
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| 3gec |
| So i went to a police station a couple days ago asking this question about exhaust and the guy told me that if the exhaust tip has been widened at then it is illegal. But he also said that they just don't ticket people with widened tips for fun. It's the guys with the loud mufflers that wakes everyone up at night when they drive anywhere. You know the ones I am talking bout the ones that sound like a weedeater. |
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| crazyrx7 |
I hate to say it but all of the ricers out there with their 85hp civic dx with the resonated tip that f**ked it for anyone that actually needs to have their "exhaust" opened and made bigger along with the tip because they are pushing lots of hp. Thats my rant for the day (because I got the same ticket yesterday along with a bullshit speeding ticket; he must have singled me out because of my bright orange paint (too much traffic to speed!!)).
R.K. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by crazyrx7
he must have singled me out because of my bright orange paint (too much traffic to speed!!)).
R.K.
They really like to hit on the orange. I guess they can't make the connection that driving one of the most visible vehicles on the road actually make you LESS inclined to act stupid because you are so easy to identify. :rolleyes: |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
I got a ticket for this last night... I think this is bullshit.. My muffler "outlet" is stock size, its the tip that isn't.
Link to TA
I'm quite familiar with 61(1), what I was specifically referring to was the claim that anything changed to be louder than stock is illegal.
61(1) states no excessive noise, no sparks, no flames, and nothing attached to the exhaust system or muffler. It doesn't state anything dealing specifically with changing the system from stock, or sound levels related to stock. As for defining "excessive", since they wouldn't tell me when I asked I can only speculate that the legal definition of "excessive" for edmonton is to be found in Part 3 of Bylaw 7255.
One could reasonably argue that if you have an aftermarket exhaust system that does not have larger than stock muffler outlets, doesn't throw flames, and does not violate 7255 then the ticket is fightable.
...you hit on another tecnicality with this is that the letter of the law is specific in stating that the outlet of the "muffler" can not be widened, but it doesn't say anything about a tip on the end of the exhaust pipe. So if they hit you with this ticket and you're not running a fart can, only a chrome tip, then it might also be reasonable to fight it, but you would have to show that the tip did not amplify the sound of the car. You'll still likely lose in court, but it would be a learning process. :blink: |
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| crazyrx7 |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
They really like to hit on the orange. I guess they can't make the connection that driving one of the most visible vehicles on the road actually make you LESS inclined to act stupid because you are so easy to identify. :rolleyes:
I wasn't acting stupid. I was driving right beside a Jeep liberty the whole way and there was traffic right infront of me but yet I got nailed with the ticket. Oh well.
R.K. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by crazyrx7
I hate to say it but all of the ricers out there with their 85hp civic dx with the resonated tip that f**ked it for anyone that actually needs to have their "exhaust" opened and made bigger along with the tip because they are pushing lots of hp. Thats my rant for the day (because I got the same ticket yesterday along with a bullshit speeding ticket; he must have singled me out because of my bright orange paint (too much traffic to speed!!)).
R.K.
Flame wars don't help the situation. But to reply to your ignorance, I'd have to say that first off DX"s come 102 stock. Second off, the easiest thing one can do to make more horsepower in a civic is open up the exhaust system, and third my car wasn't equipped with a "resonated tip" not to mention that it is turbo charged, therefore it makes almost NO noise at all.. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it is quieter then it was stock.
I understand that you're pissed at getting a ticket, as I am as well, but no need to place the blame on the fact that you are in fact running an ILLEGAL system on another group of car owners. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
I'm quite familiar with 61(1), what I was specifically referring to was the claim that anything changed to be louder than stock is illegal.
61(1) states no excessive noise, no sparks, no flames, and nothing attached to the exhaust system or muffler. It doesn't state anything dealing specifically with changing the system from stock, or sound levels related to stock. As for defining "excessive", since they wouldn't tell me when I asked I can only speculate that the legal definition of "excessive" for edmonton is to be found in Part 3 of Bylaw 7255.
One could reasonably argue that if you have an aftermarket exhaust system that does not have larger than stock muffler outlets, doesn't throw flames, and does not violate 7255 then the ticket is fightable.
...you hit on another tecnicality with this is that the letter of the law is specific in stating that the outlet of the "muffler" can not be widened, but it doesn't say anything about a tip on the end of the exhaust pipe. So if they hit you with this ticket and you're not running a fart can, only a chrome tip, then it might also be reasonable to fight it, but you would have to show that the tip did not amplify the sound of the car. You'll still likely lose in court, but it would be a learning process. :blink:
The thing is, is that my inlet is a 3" Downpipe... so does this mean that my outlet can be 3" as well? :)
On top of that, the tip comes off the muffler outlet, the tip is probobly 3", but the outlet at the biggest is 1 3/4"..... So that may be worth bringing up with the judge at the court date.
Either way, this definately sucks.. voluntary taxation! |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
The thing is, is that my inlet is a 3" Downpipe... so does this mean that my outlet can be 3" as well? :)
On top of that, the tip comes off the muffler outlet, the tip is probobly 3", but the outlet at the biggest is 1 3/4"..... So that may be worth bringing up with the judge at the court date.
Either way, this definately sucks.. voluntary taxation!
Don't know. This is the problem with these little nuisance (income) laws that have been passed. They are not technically detailed enough to really define what constitutes a violation so the cops say everything is a violation and people just pay instead of fighting.
Bottom line seems to be that if you've got a fart can on there you're guilty. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
Flame wars don't help the situation. But to reply to your ignorance, I'd have to say that first off DX"s come 102 stock. Second off, the easiest thing one can do to make more horsepower in a civic is open up the exhaust system
...must not make civic joke...must fight overwhelming urge...must not let mullet control me..... ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHHH
:lol: |
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| Flex |
snugs: where is this part 3 bylaw 7255???
I would like to read up as much as possible if I ever do get a ticket I know what Im talking about if I fight it.
Also I know alot of people talk about it but has anyone actually fought one......no one has ever posted any results that I have seen about it. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Flex
snugs: where is this part 3 bylaw 7255???
I would like to read up as much as possible if I ever do get a ticket I know what Im talking about if I fight it.
Also I know alot of people talk about it but has anyone actually fought one......no one has ever posted any results that I have seen about it.
I posted it in one of my threads about this stuff, but here's the linky.
http://www.edmonton.ca/bylaws/C7255.doc
Please note the associated fines. Sound level testing is required to determine the actual amount of the fine, but for our purposes this really should just serve as a legal guideline for what is locally considered to constitute "excessive".
Knowledge is power, but time is money and for most its easier to just pay the fine and contribute to the helicopter/taser fund.. :p |
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| Pro Drag |
PART 3 - VEHICLE NOISE ABATEMENT
300. No person shall operate, cause or permit to be operated, a motor vehicle having a gross vehicle weight of less than 3,600 kilograms so as to create noise of a level greater than 82 dBA in a sixty (60) kilometres per hour zone or less.
301. No person shall operate, cause or permit to be operated a motor vehicle having a gross vehicle weight of 3,60l kilograms or more so as to create noise of a level greater than 89 dBA in a sixty (60) kilometres per hour zone or less.
302. No person shall operate, cause or permit to be operated a motorcycle so as to create noise of a level greater than 84 dBA in a sixty (60) kilometres per hour zone or less.
303. No person shall operate, cause or permit to be operated any recreational vehicle on any public or private property so as to create noise of a level greater than 84 dBA.
304. Any motor vehicle, motorcycle, recreational or commercial vehicle which has been the subject matter of three (3) convictions under Part 3 of this Bylaw shall be prohibited from operating within the City until alterations are made thereto such as are necessary to render the vehicle capable of operating within the noise levels permitted for that class of vehicle.
704. In readings for offenses listed in Part 3 of this Bylaw, an approved device shall be operated no less than 7.5 meters from the source of the noise.
(S.2, Bylaw No. 7634, January 8, 1985)
Operating Motor Vehicle under 3,600 Kilograms - 300
Noise Greater than 82 dBA
(a) where the level of noise has been exceeded by not more than 4 dBA = $ 60.00
(b) where the level of noise has been exceeded by more than 4 dBA but not more than 8 dBA = $ 85.00
(c) where the level of noise has been exceeded by more than 8 dBA = $110.00
This is what I found. If the issuing officer did not take a decibal reading from 7.5M back from the exit of your exhaust, I don't know how it could stand up in court.
Snugs, didn't you go and get a decibal meter? |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
I got a ticket for this last night... I think this is bullshit.. My muffler "outlet" is stock size, its the tip that isn't.
Those tips actually do cause an amplification of the sound, in one direction- straight out of the tip. That's why trumpets, tubas, trombones etc. have the flare at the end- to project their sound better.
As well, by adding the tip you HAVE changed the outlet size of the muffler.
Sorry dude. :dunno: |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by penance
I'm suprised there isn't a sticky in the Local Law Enforcement forum that says 'Enlarged exhaust questions' and then in it it says.....
................If you have to ask, its probably illegal:lol:
Um...yes there is:
http://forums.780tuners.com/showthr...;threadid=16949 |
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| Flex |
See the bylaw states that they have to be at least 7.5 meters away and the noise can't exceed 82 dBA in an area of 60 kms/hour or less.
So now what RPM do they run your car at to simulate 60km/h......or do they stand on the side of the road and have you drive by at 60??????? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Flex
See the bylaw states that they have to be at least 7.5 meters away and the noise can't exceed 82 dBA in an area of 60 kms/hour or less.
So now what RPM do they run your car at to simulate 60km/h......or do they stand on the side of the road and have you drive by at 60???????
Good question.
My Talon runs at 3000 rpm in 3rd gear at 60kph.
I know for a fact it is louder when it us under load going down the road at that RPM than if I were to rev it and hold it @ 3000 RPM in neutral. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
This is what I found. If the issuing officer did not take a decibal reading from 7.5M back from the exit of your exhaust, I don't know how it could stand up in court.
Snugs, didn't you go and get a decibal meter?
Yeah, but I took it back after I tested my exhaust set up. Like I said at the time, my car was LOUD, it car idled in the high 70s so it was pointless for me to try and fight it in court. Since then I dumped that set up and have gone with something much more reasonable. :D
One thing to note though is that there is a loophole in the bylaw under Part 2 that could screw you no matter what.
PART 2 - GENERAL ABATEMENT PROVISIONS
200. No person shall cause or permit any noise that annoys or disturbs the peace of any other person.
201. No person shall permit property they own or control to be used so that noise from the property annoys or disturbs the peace of any other person.
201.1 In determining whether a sound is reasonably likely to annoy or disturb the peace of others, consideration may be given but is not limited to the:
a) type, volume and duration of the sound;
b) time of day and day of the week;
c) nature and use of the surrounding area; and
d) dBA level, if measured.
202. A Court may enter a conviction against a person for violating this part of the Bylaw, notwithstanding the fact that the noise complained of did not exceed the dBA permitted for that area.
(200 – 202, S. 3 - 6, Bylaw 13078, May 28, 2002)
203. A person may be found guilty of violating this part of the bylaw whether or not the noise level has been measured by an approved device.
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Until somebody has a strong case and bothers to take it to court it would appear that the bottom line is "you be payin".
:( |
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