| Anonymoose |
Just got this e-mail:
Dear valued customer:
We have some very exciting news….
Husky and Mohawk are please to announce the expansion of E94 into additional Calgary locations. Our Performance Plus 94 Octane is now available at the following stations:
· Macleod Trail Husky Market - 4201 Macleod Tr. South.
· Bow Trail Husky Market – 3821 Bow Trail S.W.
· Husky Sundance – 75 Sunvalley Blvd. S.E.
· Auto Square Calgary - 401-16 Ave. N.E.
· 14th Street Mohawk – 418 – 14th Street N.W.
· St. Albert Stop N’ Shop – 192 St. Albert Trail, St. Albert, AB
We’re also please to announce the implementation of E94 into the Edmonton market at the following locations:
· Cherry Grove Husky – 15303 - 73A Street (Opening late December 2004)
· Anthony Henday Husky – 19828 - 62 Avenue (Opening late January 2005)
We at Husky and Mohawk value your patronage, and hope you will continue to frequent our stores.
Regards,
Tawndra Calhoun
1-800-661-3835
customerservice@huskyenergy.ca |
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| AutoAym |
Beat me to it. :)
Better late than never for 94, i say. Now if they put some stations that aren't on the far west end of edmonton, that will be terribly cool. :) |
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| v8slayer |
It uses ethonal which will not be warrentied if your engine goes.
Read your manual guys.
The over all performance will not be as good as ESSO 91 due to the ethonal.
Ethonal is a no no for Turbo motors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
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| Flex |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
It uses ethonal which will not be warrentied if your engine goes.
Read your manual guys.
The over all performance will not be as good as ESSO 91 due to the ethonal.
Ethonal is a no no for Turbo motors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thats what I was wondering. I was always told to stay away from ethanol blend gas in my bike, as it was not good for performance engines. So I was curious if it was any good in a turbo engine.
Im gonna stick with 91, never had any problems so Im gonna stay with what works until theres more info out on it. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Flex
Thats what I was wondering. I was always told to stay away from ethanol blend gas in my bike, as it was not good for performance engines. So I was curious if it was any good in a turbo engine.
Im gonna stick with 91, never had any problems so Im gonna stay with what works until theres more info out on it.
From what I know, the ethanol blend should be ok for regular running, but if you wanted to take advantage of it you should probably get a new tune with it instead of just kicking the boost up a notch. BAM!
 |
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| JustinL |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
It uses ethonal which will not be warrentied if your engine goes.
Read your manual guys.
The over all performance will not be as good as ESSO 91 due to the ethonal.
Ethonal is a no no for Turbo motors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can you give me your reasoning for this? |
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| ChromeDragon |
| My car runs great on Husky/Mohawk 92 octane at 14psi of boost. I'm not sure where all this ethanol trashing comes in.:dunno: |
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| 2003specv |
| And when I bought my car it, the manual said ethanol blends are A-Okay. |
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| PraxRX7 |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Can you give me your reasoning for this?
My car started to run like shit and idle funny on mohawk gas. (i was using the mohawk gas for 1 year on my 89 Turbo RX-7 and was slowly noticing it was running worse and worse...)
Switched to Esso and then it was fine. :dunno: |
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| ManHunter |
Import Tuner has a nice article on "The thruth about pump gas" this month.
according to them, the only real problem with ethanol is vapor lock, if it's used in high doses.
MH |
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| 96MX6 |
| I'm just happy they are opening the cherry grove husky! I have to drive 40 blocks to get to the nearest gas station right now.:bthumbup: |
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| dmak_el |
quote:
Originally posted by ManHunter
Import Tuner has a nice article on "The thruth about pump gas" this month.
according to them, the only real problem with ethanol is vapor lock, if it's used in high doses.
MH
so what does that means?:dunno: |
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| GQsmooth |
wtf, those locations are bogus:mad:
they better expand to southside:fingersx: |
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| REFLUX |
^^^^
yeah what does it mean Eric???
Why do you guys use Esso over Shell?
Shell 91 :bthumbup:
owner's manual says 91 so I'm sticking with it. |
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| arabian_ryda |
| wooooo the cherry grove husky is just one block away from my house. tired of have to go to 97st or clairveiw for gas. oh and 94 octane sweetens the deal even better cause ill be running a higher compression engine in the datsun. |
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| CanadianR |
| How high of compression are you gonna be running that you feel you need 94 octane? |
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| arabian_ryda |
| i have no idea but weather its needs the higher octane gas or not its there and easy to access. |
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| rage2 |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
Ethonal is a no no for Turbo motors.
Ethanol (specifically Mohawk/Husky 94) is a tuner's best friend in Alberta, ESPECIALLY if you have a turbo car with adjustability. No fuel can make as much power on pump gas. Nothing comes close. I've helped churn out some silly fast pump gas cars using Husky 94.
It's pretty useless for NA cars, unless you're running super high compression (as in over 13:1) at our elevation. |
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| KRAB |
| So is ethanol gas for turbo cars a good thing or bad thing? |
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| JustinL |
| Good thing if you want power. Bad thing if you want fuel efficiency. |
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| turbomike |
a buddy of mine drives a big rig and he hauls gas...
shell is 4% heavier than esso "fuel weight" what dose that mean? more water???
i dont know but if you want to go faster down the 1/4 you use alcohol ethonol is like moonshine so it must make your car faster:bthumbup: :bthumbup: :p |
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| stealth |
I was wondering is that NOS octane booster any good?
Im trying to acheive at LEAST 100 Octane for my car.
Thx for any input. |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by PraxRX7
My car started to run like shit and idle funny on mohawk gas. (i was using the mohawk gas for 1 year on my 89 Turbo RX-7 and was slowly noticing it was running worse and worse...)
Switched to Esso and then it was fine. :dunno:
I concur with this.
Ran my Z's for a bit on Mohawk and they sputtered and wanted to die or idled funny and jsut ran like shit.... switched over to either shell or esso and they ran awesome, perfect idles, got and went w/ out hesitation.... I can't explain it, but the same thing happens with petro as it does with mohawk (or did in the Z's for me). Figment of my imagination? Maybe it was just a batch of bad gas or two...? |
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| Keith303 |
if 91 oct was $0.81 what would 94 oct most likely be?.
so who all is going to use it? |
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| redbaron303 |
| It was like $1.49 or some bs in Van this past summer :( |
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| JustinL |
The biggest difference between ethanol blended and other gas is that ethanol blended has less energy per volume and is "oxygenated". I run my car in open-loop (O2 sensor ignored) and have it tuned to run on 10% ethanol. If I put 91 octane in, my idle gets higher and it runs rich. Injector duty cycles will be higher as you need more gas to get the same A/F ratio. But if you can get adequate fueling, you can run more boost because of the knock resistance; ethanol also burns cooler than gasoline. The trick is that you need apropriate fueling to take advantage of it. Normally, your ECU should take care of this by monitoring the lambda sensor and increasing the fueling apropriately.
I guess it is conceivable that some ECUs don't like the conflicting data from what the 02 sensor should read based on the air flow and fuel and what is actually read by the O2 sensor. If it defaulted to ignoring the o2 sensor you'd end up with higher exhaust temps and a lean condition. |
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| turbomike |
| guys gas stations run what ever they can... eg westcan transport fills at the petro ref. then goes to whatever station made the request... private owners run the station they pick where they buy there fuel. just cuz it says esso dont mean your getting esso gas |
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| Flex |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
I was wondering is that NOS octane booster any good?
Im trying to acheive at LEAST 100 Octane for my car.
Thx for any input.
I have heard that stuff is terrible for your vehicle. Dries out seals and gaskets. |
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| 2003specv |
quote:
Originally posted by turbomike
guys gas stations run what ever they can... eg westcan transport fills at the petro ref. then goes to whatever station made the request... private owners run the station they pick where they buy there fuel. just cuz it says esso dont mean your getting esso gas
Exactly. Husky/Mohawk doesn't have a refinery in Edmonton area, so they buy Petro Can and add their ethenol.
Right now when you buy Husky/Mohawk 91, you are buying Petro Can mid-grade with ethenol added to bring the octane rating to 91. So what they will most likely do for the 94 around here is use Petro 90/91 (whatever it is) and add their ethenol to reach 94. |
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| v8slayer |
Why is there no Chevron 94 here in Alberta.
That is real 94 Octane gas woth no short cuts to 94 like ethonal.
I really loved living in BC with that gas available.
I ran 21 PSI daily in my Talon with ZERO knock at sea level.
We are so ripped of here! |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
I was wondering is that NOS octane booster any good?
Im trying to acheive at LEAST 100 Octane for my car.
There's no way in hell any off the shelf little bottle of octane booster will get your octane rating up that high. Not even close. If you add one bottle to a tank of 91, you're lucky if you end up with 91.5 at the end of the day.
If you want 100 Octane then you should either be buying race gas or blending toluene or xylene in your gas. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
Why is there no Chevron 94 here in Alberta.
I really loved living in BC with that gas available.
We are so ripped of here!
Its not sold here because its not required at our elevation.
Those of us that "tune" our turbocharged cars and turn up the boost may feel that WE NEED 94 Octane, but the average car owner, even a high performance car owner, does not need anything higher than 91 here. eg. Both your car and mine would run perfectly fine at *stock* boost levels on 91 octane.
I just don't see all the major gasoline distributors suddenly catering to the relatively small tuner market. |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I just don't see all the major gasoline distributors suddenly catering to the relatively small tuner market.
Let's say, hypothetically, that a small tuner shop sold 100 octane right from a pump.. how many of you would support it? Obviously the price would be higher. |
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| v8slayer |
As long as you guarantee DOT won't catch us with marked gas and fine us 500.00
If the shop sells from a pump it will have to be Taxed properly and it will have to have a station licence that having 1 pump will never be able to pay for. |
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| Anonymoose |
| What would stop them from buying already taxed gas and reselling it with a mark-up? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Let's say, hypothetically, that a small tuner shop sold 100 octane right from a pump.. how many of you would support it? Obviously the price would be higher.
The 100+ octane race gases are not made here in province. Most of them are shipped up from Texas.
I was talking about the Alberta refineries not mass-marketing a 94 octane grade of gasoline here locally, like they do in Vancouver, because there is not enough market to support its production. Shell, Petro-Can and Esso are not going to start pumping out 94 Octane just to supply to one single gas pump at a tuner shop. |
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| stealth |
Thanks INzane those JB's guys like to feed bullshit.
Will i be rine running 91 Octane, on a ecu that is regularily used with 100 octane? Will my timing retard this, or will i knock?
Sam |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
Will i be rine running 91 Octane, on a ecu that is regularily used with 100 octane?
Not really. Does your ecu have multiple maps (ie. can you switch your 100 octane program off?). Are you saying that your primary map is for 100 octane? Yikes. :blink: |
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| stealth |
Yup my primary map i believe is for 100 octane, thats on stock ecu.
I will double check in 2 minutes here.
Sam |
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| stealth |
Ok people are telling me the ECU is supposed to run on minimum 100 - 108 RON
I believe that is minimum 95-100. |
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| 2003specv |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Let's say, hypothetically, that a small tuner shop sold 100 octane right from a pump.. how many of you would support it? Obviously the price would be higher.
If you're interested why don't you buy a drum of race fuel and keep it in your garage? I use to keep a drum of 101 unleaded in my garage when I had my 11.5/1 small block. That stuff was awesome! I could advance the timing big time.
Anyway, when used to buy the stuff I was getting employee prices and it was $200 for a 205L barrel. I could have even gotten 110 octane but it was leaded (off-road use only). Not too bad of a price for the 101, less than $1 a litre. BTW this was Unocal 76 gas.
I'm sure anyone could buy a drum for around $250. |
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| rage2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Keith303
if 91 oct was $0.81 what would 94 oct most likely be?.
so who all is going to use it?
It's 4 cents/L higher in Calgary compared to premium.
Oh, just a note, there's a LOT of misinformation in this thread :D. JustinL knows what he's talking about though hehe. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by rage2
Oh, just a note, there's a LOT of misinformation in this thread :D.
Please share with these people then... ;) |
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| 2003specv |
quote:
Originally posted by rage2
It's 4 cents/L higher in Calgary compared to premium.
4 cents huh? Wicked. You cheap bums! 4 cents is fuck all.:bthumbup: |
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| JustinL |
| Rage, do you have any theories on why some people report that their cars run worse with 10% ethanol? I figure it must be an ECU thing...but if anyone has done testing it would be you guys in Calgary. |
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| scooby_dooby |
rage2, in your opinion would 91 octane be ok for an LS with 10.8 - 11:0 CR?
i was worried it might be a little low...I don't really understand how elevation affects it, less oxygen in the air, so less chance of detonation?
what if i drive to BC and it's sea level, will my car be running lean? |
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| DowntownFocus |
Lots of info on the reality of fuel at this link, there realy isn't that great of a differance.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/72498/
Tech Articles
What Is Octane?
Octane is the rating of the fuel’s ability to resist abnormal combustion due to heat or pressure. Abnormal combustion is defined as any burning that is not initiated by the spark plug. Octane has nothing to do with the fuel’s ability to make power other than the fact that, properly selected, it allows the engine-builder the use of high-compression, aggressive cam timing and any other trick that elevates cylinder pressure. The power potential of gasoline is related directly to its density. Density is determined by the grade and quality of the crude petroleum, the refining process, and whatever chemical additives are included before shipment to the retailer. |
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| Nightstalker |
| I will continue to use shell and petro 91 in my car.. even after its turbo. |
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| rage2 |
Oh, and 2003specv got it right with this post too:
quote:
Originally posted by 2003specv
Exactly. Husky/Mohawk doesn't have a refinery in Edmonton area, so they buy Petro Can and add their ethenol.
Right now when you buy Husky/Mohawk 91, you are buying Petro Can mid-grade with ethenol added to bring the octane rating to 91. So what they will most likely do for the 94 around here is use Petro 90/91 (whatever it is) and add their ethenol to reach 94.
The Husky engineer explained it to me a while back when I met with them. He didn't mention where they get their base fuel from though.
Husky 94 octane also has a lower % of ethanol compared to their 87, 89 and 92 octane blends because they start off with a better base fuel. |
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| ACX |
With my particular setup, Detonation, knock, preginition is always a possibility, since the small compact turbo gives off some unusually high EGTS. The PCM will wreck shop on timing if it sense anything amiss. Factory tuned, so that is that.
I've seen this debated before, but for my car optimum performance comes with 94.
I've also seen the differences of my dynos when my PCM is in retard mode thanks to knock..
Anyways , good news for you guys. |
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| ManHunter |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
Ok people are telling me the ECU is supposed to run on minimum 100 - 108 RON
I believe that is minimum 95-100.
That's a pretty large interval. With 100 RON, the MON would be about 12-13 points lower, which means the average (the octance rating at the pump) would be 94.
MH |
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| stealth |
o ok thanks Eric, ya people on the boards varied from ratings, so i wasnt exactly sure.
Sam |
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| rage2 |
Alright, let's try to answer them all.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
It uses ethonal which will not be warrentied if your engine goes.
Read your manual guys.
Manufactures recommend not using more than 10% ethanol because ECUs aren't calibrated for it, and usually only allow a small tolerance for fuel trims. Too much ethanol can cause the car to run rough if not tuned for it. By law, ethanol blended fuels are not allowed to be over 10%, so manufactures tune around that target. Husky's highest ethanol content is in their 92 octane blend, around 5% ethanol, well under the 10% maximum.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
The over all performance will not be as good as ESSO 91 due to the ethonal.
For a car not tuned for 94 octane, 91 octane will make more power. But if you can adjust the boost and timing to take advantage of the higher knock limits of 94 octane, you will make more power. Yes, the energy content of 94 octane fuel is lower than 91 octane fuels, but the possibility of higher boost and power gained from it makes up the difference and surpasses it by quite a bit.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
Ethonal is a no no for Turbo motors.
hehe that's not even a myth, it's an outright lie :D.
quote:
Originally posted by PraxRX7
My car started to run like shit and idle funny on mohawk gas. (i was using the mohawk gas for 1 year on my 89 Turbo RX-7 and was slowly noticing it was running worse and worse...)
Cars that are tuned on the edge of a specific fuel usually run worse on a different blend. Cars that don't use closed loop idle (no o2 feedback) also idles like crap, and needs adjustments to compensate for the different fuel requirements.
My 944 turbo has a standalone and is tuned to run 94 octane mohawk. When I went to Vancouver to test out Chevron 94, it ran like crap until I retuned my fuel maps for the different fuel requirements. My car doesn't run closed loop at idle or on boost. The car cruised fine when using o2 sensor feedback without retuning. Modern ECU's are smart enough to automatically compensate, so ethanol blends only really affect older cars.
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
Why do you guys use Esso over Shell?
Shell 91 :bthumbup:
I did a lot of research in premium fuels (in Calgary) a while back. The lowest octane premium was Petrol Canada 91. Next was Shell 91, and Esso 92 (now renamed Esso 91 because it never was 92) was next. Mohawk 92 topped the list with highest octane. Tested by adjusting boost levels before knock was detected.
For most stock cars, at our elevation, our octane requirements for our vehicles are lower than at sea level. Because lower octane fuels have higher energy content, your car actually runs BETTER with the lowest octane fuel that doesn't cause knock and ECU timing retard. This is why many people feel Petrol Canada 91 is the best fuel, even though it's actually the worse. Next time you fuel up your bone stock car that asks for 91 octane, try using 89 octane, you'll be pleasantly surprised by the car running better, get better fuel economy, and make more power. This only works at our elevation of course, sea level doesn't apply. Also, turbo vehicles that adjust boost based on absolute pressure shouldn't try this either because the car gets as much air as sea level.
quote:
Originally posted by KRAB
So is ethanol gas for turbo cars a good thing or bad thing?
It's a good thing if you can make use of the higher octane.
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
I was wondering is that NOS octane booster any good?
Im trying to acheive at LEAST 100 Octane for my car.
Buy race gas. That octane booster stuff will make your 91 octane fuel hit 91.5. It doesn't work.
quote:
Originally posted by Flex
I have heard that stuff is terrible for your vehicle. Dries out seals and gaskets.
Only for really old cars, as in pre 80's.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
Why is there no Chevron 94 here in Alberta.
That is real 94 Octane gas woth no short cuts to 94 like ethonal.
How is it a shortcut? :dunno:
Chevron uses different aromatics to bump their fuel to 94 octane. Husky uses ethanol. Both are doing the same thing but with different ingredients.
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Rage, do you have any theories on why some people report that their cars run worse with 10% ethanol? I figure it must be an ECU thing...but if anyone has done testing it would be you guys in Calgary.
You are correct. Coupled with bad O2 sensors, and cars going into open loop mode with calibrations for non ethanol blends, it makes 'em run like shit when things aren't right.
Like I said earlier, my 951 is tuned on the edge for 94 Husky. Ran Chevron 94 in vancouver, took some time to remap my fuel curves before the car felt good again. I posted about this on Rennlist a few months ago.
quote:
Originally posted by scooby_dooby
rage2, in your opinion would 91 octane be ok for an LS with 10.8 - 11:0 CR?
I have no idea. Strap it on a dyno or drive it on the road with the fuel, tune for the fuel, and see if it knocks.
quote:
Originally posted by scooby_dooby
i was worried it might be a little low...I don't really understand how elevation affects it, less oxygen in the air, so less chance of detonation?
In simple terms, octane is a rating of when the fuel ignites automatically without spark when compressed. Because our air here is lower in pressure, the cylinder pressures are lower, thus, octane requirement decreases.
quote:
Originally posted by scooby_dooby
what if i drive to BC and it's sea level, will my car be running lean?
Depends on the tune.
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
I will continue to use shell and petro 91 in my car.. even after its turbo.
Sucker ;).
*phew!* |
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| v8slayer |
Everything you just posted only makes since if you have a full standalone system with control over al the aspects of your engine.
-Ethonal 94 won't yield more power if you can't bump the timing or raise the boost meaning 91 octane will be better for everyones cars except those with a standalone or emange.
What % of users here have either of them? 2% I bet!
-Using it in a turbo car is a no no not a lie you nut.
Because I was posting to the masses I was not including the 2% with standalones right! How is a closed loop high boost car going to compensate for the extra oxygen in the fuel when there is no way to tune it in that mode.
My point was 2% have full tunability and 60% have their boost turned up to the point where more oxygen added without tuning will do damage. That is a conflict Oxygenated fuel can play havoc with.
Cars hard wired for 91 Octane will run better on 91.
Cars with full tunability will handle 94 if you know how to tune.
I recomend when giving advise try to remember the masses not the few. |
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| KRAB |
| So Rodger if you are running some sort of tuning device like a dsm link then the ethonal 94 octane will be better than the esso 91 octane? |
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| v8slayer |
| If everything else is equal and you can tune it good. |
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| rage2 |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
Everything you just posted only makes since if you have a full standalone system with control over al the aspects of your engine.
-Ethonal 94 won't yield more power if you can't bump the timing or raise the boost meaning 91 octane will be better for everyones cars except those with a standalone or emange.
What % of users here have either of them? 2% I bet!
Not true. Here's a few other scenarios where 94 octane fuel works.
1. Car that's chipped to make more boost and run higher octane
2. Car where boost can be turned up and stock/aftermarket program has fuel maps at that boost level
3. Car where boost can be turned up and there's SAFC/other piggy back devices to dial in fuel for higher boost
My advice targets turbo enthusiasts that like to turn up the boost. I've mentioned that it's useless for NA applications and stock cars at our elevation. So I AM targetting the masses that I've defined with my comments.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
-Using it in a turbo car is a no no not a lie you nut.
Because I was posting to the masses I was not including the 2% with standalones right! How is a closed loop high boost car going to compensate for the extra oxygen in the fuel when there is no way to tune it in that mode.
Actually, under boost it's running open loop, not closed loop. A stock turbo car from the factory will have more than enough margin of error to compensate for it. You wonder why stock cars run richer than optimum? This is why.
Look up the manual of stock turbo and supercharged cars. They state that it's OK to run ethanol blends as long as it does not exceed 10%. It's even in the 911 turbo's manual. If it's such a bad thing for turbo cars like you say, why would Porsche not state that it's OK?
Ethanol blends are so commonplace these days, if it's really bad for an engine, we'd have stupid disclaimers and NO ETHANOL stickers all over our cars.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
My point was 2% have full tunability and 60% have their boost turned up to the point where more oxygen added without tuning will do damage. That is a conflict Oxygenated fuel can play havoc with.
When you turn up the boost, you get more oxygen, a hell of a lot more than using an ethanol blend. Turning up the boost without any tuning is bad news, regardless of fuel.
I seem to have given the impression that you need full standalone to dial in to ethanol based fuels. This is NOT the case. The reason why it seemed that way in my case is because I tune my car to the edge of a specific fuel with very little margin of error. That, coupled with SDS's lack of flexibility compared to solutions such as AEM and Hondata makes my car very sensitive to fuel changes.
A "safe" tune on a turbo car with even a basic device such as SAFC will allow you to use different fuels without the effects I speak of. |
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| s2oooR |
| actually for my car it says 92 octane or higher otherwise you'll experience a reduction in power/performance. ....Well documented on the boards as well.... and my car isnt supercharged or turbo'd. :dunno: |
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| v8slayer |
Yes open loop your right there it was just me typing to fast.
My point was a hard wired system for 91 is best tuned for 91 when the O2 is not feeding back and tuning trims.(which is at WOT for most cars).
I looked at my Talon Manual today and it said don't use ethonal blended gas if non ethonal is available.
Why would an engineer say that?
Now say your running your car near limits of your fuel system do to higher boost with no way to add more fuel(which is the majority of people).
What happens when you add an oxgenator like Ethonal and there is no fuel trim left to add and the engine needs 10% more fuel to keep from frying and there isn't?
My point is ethonal fuel in a NA car can't do the damage it can possibly do in a Turbo car.
Why use it and always run the risk if you can't re-tune for it!
The people on this board will listen to your advise and guarantee within a few months you will hear of some engine damage you said won't happen.
People please only use the ethonal gas if you can tune for it or you will see no gains worth the risk you will take.
I will run some logs using my AEM and I will get back to this thread with the amount of fuel I had to add and the amount of timing I changed to get the car to run as good as it did on 91.
Then you tell me if your OEM ecu can make those kind of changes on its own to be safe. |
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| ChromeDragon |
| All I know is that my car loves the current 92 at 14-15psi so with the same boost on 94 octane I will be able to run a little more advance for some more power. Obviously I'll be careful about it, but I know my car doesn't mind the ethanol blends so I'm pleased with this news. Especially since the Cherry Grove station is only 10 min from my house and on my way to work.:bthumbup: |
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| rage2 |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
What happens when you add an oxgenator like Ethonal and there is no fuel trim left to add and the engine needs 10% more fuel to keep from frying and there isn't?
...
I will run some logs using my AEM and I will get back to this thread with the amount of fuel I had to add and the amount of timing I changed to get the car to run as good as it did on 91.
Then you tell me if your OEM ecu can make those kind of changes on its own to be safe.
I can tell you right now. To maintain the same air fuel ratio between Mohawk 94 vs Chevron 94, the difference is around 1.25%. If a 1.25% difference in fuel trim is keeping you from blowing your motor... you have other things to worry about! ;)
Not sure where you got the 10% number from.
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
The people on this board will listen to your advise and guarantee within a few months you will hear of some engine damage you said won't happen.
I've been recommending Mohawk 94 on beyond for the turbo crowd since the first day it came out. Yet to hear of a motor blow up because of it. |
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| v8slayer |
quote:
Originally posted by rage2
I can tell you right now. To maintain the same air fuel ratio between Mohawk 94 vs Chevron 94, the difference is around 1.25%. If a 1.25% difference in fuel trim is keeping you from blowing your motor... you have other things to worry about! ;)
Not sure where you got the 10% number from.
94 to 94 isn't what this discussion is about!
Why would you try to kick this discussion sideways?
We're talking about hard wired 91 octane cars that are turbo'ed and peaked on 91.
Would it be safe to through at tank of 94 Ethonal blend in with no way to tune for it. NOT.
Again , I will run some logs to show the difference and then you guys can tell me if your cars OEM ECU will make the difference or if your turned up boosted cars have that much fuel trim or injector size left. |
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| JustinL |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
94 to 94 isn't what this discussion is about!
Why would you try to kick this discussion sideways?
Rage used that example because he has tested with both and has the data (from his trip to vancouver if I'm not mistaken). This isn't really a sideways shift in the conversation. He was correcting your error when you said "ethonal" makes your car run 10% leaner. |
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| rage2 |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
94 to 94 isn't what this discussion is about!
Why would you try to kick this discussion sideways?
We're talking about hard wired 91 octane cars that are turbo'ed and peaked on 91.
Would it be safe to through at tank of 94 Ethonal blend in with no way to tune for it. NOT.
Uhh, I was doing that for your benefit because it's the worst case scenario. What happens with cars on say... Shell 91 and move to 94 ethanol? It'll run slightly leaner, close to the 1.25%. So let's say the car's gonna detonate at the leaner AFR and boost level, but with the higher octane rating of 94, the error of margin goes from 0 to a lot more. So you're actually running SAFER by moving from 91 octane to 94 octane ethanol because all of a sudden, your knock threshold goes up significantly. |
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| v8slayer |
quote:
Originally posted by rage2
Uhh, I was doing that for your benefit because it's the worst case scenario. What happens with cars on say... Shell 91 and move to 94 ethanol? It'll run slightly leaner, close to the 1.25%. So let's say the car's gonna detonate at the leaner AFR and boost level, but with the higher octane rating of 94, the error of margin goes from 0 to a lot more. So you're actually running SAFER by moving from 91 octane to 94 octane ethanol because all of a sudden, your knock threshold goes up significantly.
Well the logs will confirm this if your right.
I'll get back in about 2-3 weeks with results as long as the snow holds.
I do think your all in for a suprise. |
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