| snugs |
Yup, the 05 mustangs have been unpacked and you'll probably see lots of mullet wearing idiots like me burning around on "test drives" :lol: in the next week or two.
300hp, RWD, new platform, better handling, AND A NICE INTERIOR!!! :p
[img] |
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| oldraven |
| Now, if only they could make a T-bird run like that with looks that good. :D |
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| REFLUX |
good to see Ford bumping the bar up
hopefully other car makes will follow suit! |
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| RSN CRX |
| Saw a black one one whyte ave thursday night. Sounded like a fucking beast. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by RSN CRX
Saw a black one one whyte ave thursday night. Sounded like a fucking beast.
Stock cars do not sound like "fucking beasts". :stickpoke
:p |
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| RSN CRX |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Stock cars do not sound like "fucking beasts". :stickpoke
:p
I guess you haven't heard this one.:stickpoke |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by RSN CRX
I guess you haven't heard this one.:stickpoke
One pulled a u-turn in front of us last night. We were in a civic, with the radio off.... I heard nothing... therefore it is not a beast. :stickpoke
....then again, maybe driving my car has made me deaf, so you could be right.... :lol: |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
good to see Ford bumping the bar up
hopefully other car makes will follow suit!
They aready are...
To me, it looks not like an evolution in cars, but a few steps back. To the late 60's. Admittedly, they're probably(?) better built, but these days, nostalgia is king at the big three. And the aging baby boomers and the kids who weren't around to see the originals when they were new are eating it up.
Look at the PT Cruiser (the old woody wagon), the SS from Chev (the El Camino) and of course the revival of the T-Bird. They seem to be reaching into the past to find things that will sell for them TODAY. And for the most part, they're charging good coin for them as well. |
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| ACX |
The stang is being built in a different factory and will be far superior build wise to the previous ones.
The new GTs are dynoing at 27X/29x to the wheels, so are underrated..
So far so good. |
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| oldraven |
Agreed, z32nut. There is a huge retro phase going on in the domestic market. But I don't think it's the retro that's causing the stir. More the fact that old philosophies about what an American car used to be are coming back as well. Also, they're paying attention to domestic fans who give feedback on what they want, what they like about old domestics, and what they dislike about where they've come.
Also, America used to be a forerunner in the automotive industry. They were among the best with regards to technology and precision, as well as performance.
What I'm getting down to is, many people are paying credit for the domestic revolution to their retro designs, when in fact the real steps forward made in new and upcoming domestics is what lies beneath the exterior. They're getting back to true engineering with a goal of performance, rather than engineering with a goal of lower cost. American cars are getting more expensive than before, but are also twice the cars they were ten years ago. |
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| colossus |
| I think retro is cool. Other than a Celica or an Eclipse most cars these days are boring looking... ever seen a civic or a corolla or a RSX? The new mustang is very cool, but i think they f*cked up the rear end, and i read an in depth review which talked about how although some parts are improved, FORD scimped on some others, and cheaped out on some parts. That said the new Mustang could have been better. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by colossus
That said the new Mustang could have been better.
Something that could be said about every car on the planet. :D There is no perfect car. But for $30G, this gets pretty close. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by colossus
FORD scimped on some others, and cheaped out on some parts.
That's what makes it a mustang silly. :rolleyes:
:lol: |
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| NTM |
| Drove one last week, kinda feels like a stock '93 camaro in the performance department :thefinger |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Also, they're paying attention to domestic fans who give feedback on what they want, what they like about old domestics, and what they dislike about where they've come.
Also, America used to be a forerunner in the automotive industry. They were among the best with regards to technology and precision, as well as performance.
What I'm getting down to is, many people are paying credit for the domestic revolution to their retro designs, when in fact the real steps forward made in new and upcoming domestics is what lies beneath the exterior. They're getting back to true engineering with a goal of performance, rather than engineering with a goal of lower cost. American cars are getting more expensive than before, but are also twice the cars they were ten years ago.
Oldraven, they seem to be getting a bit delusional as well.
America (and everybody else too) seems intent on building cars that get the same fuel economy or marginally better as those cars they're copying from the 60's and 70's. Now while I'm all for big horsepower, don't you think that modern technology should provide a V-8 powered car than can get 300+ ponies, and be able to get 30+mpg as well, considering that a V-6 sedan is pushing over 250 out of a V-6 and ia able to get 30+MPG's? My 15yo TT Zed is capable of 300+ ponies and can get, reasonably driven, 30mpg.
Why is fuel economy a BIG thing for me? In our world, black gold is King. Look at the US. I'm willing to venture that the only real reason they have any interest at all in Iraq, is to eventually put someone into power to sell them cheap oil- again. Look back about 30 years and you have the oil crisis. The middle east shut off the oil tap to the rest of the world. All of a sudden, America started producing vehicles that were more fuel efficient. They had no choice, they HAD to. Fuel prices went up nearly 5 fold in a period of only a couple of years, and supply was really shakey.
The point I'm trying to get at, is that the American car companies are back to the early 70's. We're back , by our OWN choice. We're buying and driving huge horsepower, low fuel economy road pigs. Everytime fuel prices go up a cent or two, we're talking about boycotting a particular fuel company on one day to force gas prices down. Bellowing to the gov't to regulate fuel costs and that it's a conspiracy that gas costs so much. But the fact is, we've chosen that reality ourselves. It's all about supply and demand. if OPEC decided tomorrow to shut off the tap, we'd be back in the same position we were 30 years ago.
We've forgotten the past, and we're setting ourselves up for the same fall. |
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| Mavrick |
Those 'big V-8s' can get better than 30mpg. They just usually don't, because it is far too tempting to push that pedal just a little bit harder, and feel the power.
Mav. |
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| POX |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
AND A NICE INTERIOR!!! :p
[
now im lost i though were talking about a ford here werent we? |
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| redbaron303 |
| It looks HOT :D |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by Mavrick
Those 'big V-8s' can get better than 30mpg. They just usually don't, because it is far too tempting to push that pedal just a little bit harder, and feel the power.
Mav.
quote:
"EPA fuel economy rating of 19 city/28 highway miles per gallon. "
Given that's US Gallons, so about 31 in the not so real world of gov't stated fuel economy. And on regular pump gas.
I stand here fully corrected. :D |
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| POX |
| OH SHIT IITS THE END OF THE WORLD |
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| POX |
| wait a second... it could be that cheep plastic they use in cryslers that looks great in picuters but fells like shit in person... |
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| Mavrick |
Getting better than 30mpg with a V8 is quite easy, actually. I got better mileage than that with my 84 Mustang, even.
The trick is to NOT floor it everywhere you go. 120 on the highway was all of 1900rpm or so, which is not terribly hard on gas at all.
Short-shifting helps mileage too, which is why Chevrolet invented the first-to-fourth bypass control on the Corvette. When you're not humping on it, you can shift from first gear to fourth gear, and enjoy some better mileage, and still have enough power to maintain speed, and perhaps surprisingly, even accelerate.
New technologies in most V8s include the ability to 'shut off' extra cylinders when they are not needed, thus a V8 can run alternately off of only 4 of the 8 cylinders to conserve fuel.
And oldraven, I gotta say, I disagree with your comment about America used to be a forerunner in the automotive industry - they still are. Don't kid yourself. GM and Ford are still the largest car manufacturers in the world for a reason. They both still lay claim to some of the fastest vehicles in the world, and have been around for longer than any of the rest.
Mav. |
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| vr6T |
| I think the interior is really ugly. Plastic, plastic, and painted plastic. I went and checked the 05's out... I think ford if very close to having a nice sports car now.. Just give it a couple more years. |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by vr6T
I think the interior is really ugly. Plastic, plastic, and painted plastic. I went and checked the 05's out... I think ford if very close to having a nice sports car now.. Just give it a couple more years.
NOT a sports car, IMHO. Sports cars have 2 seats and are generally priced higher than what the average 20 something can afford when new. Muscle car, yes. Sports car, NO.
My abbreviated list of actual sports cars:
1. Corvette
2. Viper
3. Porche 911 Turbo
4. 300ZX Twin Turbo
The Ferarris, Lambos, Maclaren SLR, Carrera GT, GT40 etc., I lump as exotics due to outrageous cost and low production numbers. Unless us average stiffs hit the lotto, we don't have a hope in he** of ever owning one. |
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| NTM |
Corvette, viper, porsche 911 turbo and 300zx twin turbo.
Lol, pick the one that does not belong :lol: |
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| 2003specv |
quote:
Originally posted by NTM
Corvette, viper, porsche 911 turbo and 300zx twin turbo.
Lol, pick the one that does not belong :lol:
Dude, post pics of your Z28. Mmmm.... boosted LT1.:bthumbup: |
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| MeXx |
| we keep thinking about this because we want you to drive an import |
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| MeXx |
quote:
Originally posted by Mavrick
Getting better than 30mpg with a V8 is quite easy, actually. I got better mileage than that with my 84 Mustang, even.
The trick is to NOT floor it everywhere you go. 120 on the highway was all of 1900rpm or so, which is not terribly hard on gas at all.
Short-shifting helps mileage too, which is why Chevrolet invented the first-to-fourth bypass control on the Corvette. When you're not humping on it, you can shift from first gear to fourth gear, and enjoy some better mileage, and still have enough power to maintain speed, and perhaps surprisingly, even accelerate.
New technologies in most V8s include the ability to 'shut off' extra cylinders when they are not needed, thus a V8 can run alternately off of only 4 of the 8 cylinders to conserve fuel.
And oldraven, I gotta say, I disagree with your comment about America used to be a forerunner in the automotive industry - they still are. Don't kid yourself. GM and Ford are still the largest car manufacturers in the world for a reason. They both still lay claim to some of the fastest vehicles in the world, and have been around for longer than any of the rest.
Mav.
Just wondering when you say shut off 4 of the 8 cylinders wouldn’t they just drag because you not disconnection them from the drive line you’re just stopping the spark and fuel to that go to that chamber. So the other 4 running cylinders would have to turn the 4 that are not working in turn putting more stress on them causing them to burn more fuel. Ive heard of this technology in 12 cylinder engines were they shut off 4 and have 8 running but not 8 cylinder engines. |
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| silksheets |
wow, 4x4 kit included and everything....
I think the new stang looks like dog shit. the concept looked good, but they butchered it in production.
Ford is still trying to compete with the Fbody, and even having 3 years of no competition still cant get it right.
Go drive the new stang then a beat on stock LT1 camaro, the camaro still handles better, has better responce, is faster, and doesnt have the sloppy donkey dick shifting |
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| Mavrick |
quote:
Originally posted by MeXx
Just wondering when you say shut off 4 of the 8 cylinders wouldn’t they just drag because you not disconnection them from the drive line you’re just stopping the spark and fuel to that go to that chamber. So the other 4 running cylinders would have to turn the 4 that are not working in turn putting more stress on them causing them to burn more fuel. Ive heard of this technology in 12 cylinder engines were they shut off 4 and have 8 running but not 8 cylinder engines.
Yes, they cut ignition and fuel to individual cylinders on a rotating basis, so fire once, skip once, kinda. When a cylinder is skipped, the valves remain open so that they don't drag down the engine too much.
Mav. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by silksheets
wow, 4x4 kit included and everything....
I think the new stang looks like dog shit. the concept looked good, but they butchered it in production.
Ford is still trying to compete with the Fbody, and even having 3 years of no competition still cant get it right.
Go drive the new stang then a beat on stock LT1 camaro, the camaro still handles better, has better responce, is faster, and doesnt have the sloppy donkey dick shifting
You seem to forget that the Mustang put the F-body out of production. Show me a stock late model F-body that could compete with the '05, and for $30G.
I got a kick out of the comment about sports cars only having two seats, then you named the 911 and 300ZX. All 911's are four seaters, and if the two seater 300 was a sports car, was the 2+2 not? If I use that formula then the Mustang is a Sports car, since it's a 2+2. Look at those rear buckets.
The technology of shutting off cylinders was being used by GM back in the 70's. The infamous 4-6-8. That failed though, since it was just too early on, and the technology was poorly done. People started driving into the back wall of their garages when the lovely 70's electronics went haywire. There was a fix from GM. They turned them back into regular 8's again. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
You seem to forget that the Mustang put the F-body out of production. Show me a stock late model F-body that could compete with the '05, and for $30G.
I got a kick out of the comment about sports cars only having two seats, then you named the 911 and 300ZX. All 911's are four seaters, and if the two seater 300 was a sports car, was the 2+2 not? If I use that formula then the Mustang is a Sports car, since it's a 2+2. Look at those rear buckets.
The technology of shutting off cylinders was being used by GM back in the 70's. The infamous 4-6-8. That failed though, since it was just too early on, and the technology was poorly done. People started driving into the back wall of their garages when the lovely 70's electronics went haywire. There was a fix from GM. They turned them back into regular 8's again.
Dagnabbit! Could someone delete this? Doesn't want to work for me. |
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| SweetasSugar |
| personally I think they are UGLYYYYYYYY!!! If I wanted a retro car I would go for the real thing.... the true muscle car.... this just looks like a lazy old guys wet dream to me.... just my opinion - sorry :-P |
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| Nightstalker |
| I personally love the new mustang. But I like what they did with the suspension. But I like what they look like a lot more then the '04 Style for sure. |
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| Mavrick |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
[B]You seem to forget that the Mustang put the F-body out of production. Show me a stock late model F-body that could compete with the '05, and for $30G.
I wouldn't go so far as to agree that the Mustang put the F-body out of production. GM killed it, probably so that they could get rid of the unionized Canadians that wanted too much money to build it, and save the car for a tremendous comeback.
Honestly, the Mustang didn't touch the F-bodies from 93-2000. Don't get me wrong. Ford started the Pony-car war, and more than held their own for better than 25 years against the Camaro and the Firebird. GM flat-out ruled in all aspects of performance except price from 93-up, though. When Ford FINALLY started to step up, GM axed the F-body, for reasons we really can only speculate about. Ford has lasted the longest in the pony wars, but I guarantee it isn't over yet.
quote:
I got a kick out of the comment about sports cars only having two seats, then you named the 911 and 300ZX. All 911's are four seaters, and if the two seater 300 was a sports car, was the 2+2 not? If I use that formula then the Mustang is a Sports car, since it's a 2+2. Look at those rear buckets.
I got a bit of a kick out of that, too. If 'sports cars' only have two seats, then an MR2, a Fiero, a Miata, and an S2000 should also fall into that 'sports car' category, although I sure don't think it would be fair to pit any one of those cars against a Mustang dollar for dollar. Personally, I think all of the above-noted cars, plus a host of 2+2's can be considered to be sports cars, as their power and suspension can be taken to a competitive level, making it a 'sport'.
Further to your earlier comment about Mustangs 'putting F-bodies out of production', I believe both the GM F-body and the Mustang have outlived the Nissan 300-series as well, so if outliving the competition bears any factor at all, consider that the Nissan died when they tried to compete at the Corvette level (as did the Supra and the RX-7), when they should have stuck to competing with Mustangs and Camaros.
I definitely have to give kudos to Z32Nut for placing the Corvette as the number 1 sports car in his list. When it comes to sports cars, that is definitely the best in the world that anyone could ever hope to buy. After all, if you can afford to buy a Ferrari, you aren't buying it for the performance, you're buying it for the attention. The simple fact that a Corvette can contend at 'super-car' levels, and that you might be able to afford one someday, is a true testament to 'sports cars' at their best.
Mav. |
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| Mavrick |
quote:
Originally posted by SweetasSugar
personally I think they are UGLYYYYYYYY!!! If I wanted a retro car I would go for the real thing.... the true muscle car.... this just looks like a lazy old guys wet dream to me.... just my opinion - sorry :-P
I'm kinda mixed about the looks of the 05's myself. I've seen plenty of photos leading up to their release, and I really didn't like what I saw. I've seen a quite a few recently in person, and it's starting to grow on me a bit. Seeing some of the aftermarket manufacturers such as Roush, Steeda, and Saleen (just to name a few), step up with some body-kits, really puts a different perspective on its looks, too.
Mav. |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by Mavrick
[B]
I got a bit of a kick out of that, too. If 'sports cars' only have two seats, then an MR2, a Fiero, a Miata, and an S2000 should also fall into that 'sports car' category, although I sure don't think it would be fair to pit any one of those cars against a Mustang dollar for dollar. Personally, I think all of the above-noted cars, plus a host of 2+2's can be considered to be sports cars, as their power and suspension can be taken to a competitive level, making it a 'sport'.
MR2 turbo and S2000 I would agree with. Sports cars are made from the drawing board up, not tweaked until their body can't take any more tweaking. Cars like the mustang, camaro and firechicken are muscle cars. Big displacement, ZERO handling.
quote:
I believe both the GM F-body and the Mustang have outlived the Nissan 300-series as well, so if outliving the competition bears any factor at all, consider that the Nissan died when they tried to compete at the Corvette level (as did the Supra and the RX-7), when they should have stuck to competing with Mustangs and Camaros.
The rising yen and the baby boomers newfound love affair with SUV land yachts killed the Z, Supra and RX-7 which still perform at the level of the NEW vette. Don't think for a second that a Z owner like myself would ever consider lowering his standards to driving a domestic rattletrap. They're a HUGE step down.
quote:
I definitely have to give kudos to Z32Nut for placing the Corvette as the number 1 sports car in his list. When it comes to sports cars, that is definitely the best in the world that anyone could ever hope to buy. After all, if you can afford to buy a Ferrari, you aren't buying it for the performance, you're buying it for the attention. The simple fact that a Corvette can contend at 'super-car' levels, and that you might be able to afford one someday, is a true testament to 'sports cars' at their best.
Mav.
The list was done in no particular order. If it was in order, the Z or the Porsche would've been at the head of the line. As for the Vette being the best anyone could hope to buy, I think you're very mistaken, or you have a bias to domestics. Mind you, under the American skin of the last few years of vettes, is the backbone of a Lotus. GM didn't think of that ideer themselves. |
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| snugs |
Drove an 05 V6 on the weekend (the GT's were all sold out already) and got to hear a GT running.
First impressions were that the interior looked really nice, but it is not practical IMO. The gauge cluster hurt my head because they swapped the tach and the speedo so my widdle bwain got all confwused. The center console is way too high and the cupholders (the bane of all mustangs) are in exactly the wrong spot. The seats are still fairly flat and don't provide the kind of bolster support I like (but then again the car is aimed at americans who generally have *ahem* larger than average posteriors). The engine sounds good, and pulls well even for a V6, and the car handled pretty well too.
So to sum up for the V6:
Interior - Looks really nice.... not entirely functional.
Exterior - Huge potential!
Powertrain - Smooth shifts, enough power for the average monkey.
Handling - Better than before, but still not as good as my cobra. |
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| 2003specv |
Z32NUT, that was probably one of the dumbest posts this side of an EZ thread. Not to mention biased and uninformed,
Since when do Z,RX-7,Supras run twelves STOCK??? (have you seen the C6?) They don't, so get off your high and mighty super Z car high horse. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
Cars like the mustang, camaro and firechicken are muscle cars. Big displacement, ZERO handling.
You really need to drive one of these things. What makes you think they have ZERO handling? That was true in the 60's and 70's, (which imports were just as bad, just lighter) but have been able to pull corners over the past 10-15 years. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
You really need to drive one of these things. What makes you think they have ZERO handling? That was true in the 60's and 70's, (which imports were just as bad, just lighter) but have been able to pull corners over the past 10-15 years.
LOL, I missed that ZERO handling thing, that's pretty funny stuff. :p |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by 2003specv
Z32NUT, that was probably one of the dumbest posts this side of an EZ thread. Not to mention biased and uninformed,
Since when do Z,RX-7,Supras run twelves STOCK??? (have you seen the C6?) They don't, so get off your high and mighty super Z car high horse.
If you want to live your life a 1/4 mile at a time, feel free. Buy a musclecar or a dragster. Sports cars are about a finely balanced engineering act between power AND handling. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
If you want to live your life a 1/4 mile at a time, feel free. Buy a musclecar or a dragster. Sports cars are about a finely balanced engineering act between power AND handling.
For those 10 seconds or less I'm free. :lol: :lol: :lol: |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
MR2 turbo and S2000 I would agree with. Sports cars are made from the drawing board up, not tweaked until their body can't take any more tweaking. Cars like the mustang, camaro and firechicken are muscle cars. Big displacement, ZERO handling.
Alright, enough of you spouting off complete bullshit. Let's back it up with some numbers.
A measure of handling is the rating on the skidpad - well, let's take a quick look.
A 1990 Iroc pulled 0.87g on the skipad while a 1991 300ZX pulled a 0.91g.
Proof:
http://www.motorcities.com/contents/01IRI461798822.html
http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/a.../1990iroc.shtml
So, do you find it a bit odd that a car that has had the suspension designed in 1982 can almost keep up with your 300ZX, which at it's time was Nissan's top sports car (If you can call it a sports car)?
Strange, for a car with zero handling, it looks like it could almost beat any of the imports around today even, and it could have done it way back in 1982.
quote:
The rising yen and the baby boomers newfound love affair with SUV land yachts killed the Z, Supra and RX-7 which still perform at the level of the NEW vette.
You think that a 300zx can compete with a brand new Z06? You think a Supra or RX7 could even compete with a brand new Z06?
Man, are you a dumbass. Have you ever been inside a Z06? Have you ever raced against one?
The 2004 Z06 runs 11's bone stock, pulls 1g on the skidpad. It runs with the likes on the Viper, McLaren F1's, and so on.
Comparing a 300ZX to a Z06 is like comparing an Integra to a NSX (Except for the large difference in price).
quote:
Don't think for a second that a Z owner like myself would ever consider lowering his standards to driving a domestic rattletrap. They're a HUGE step down.
Prove that the Z06 is a "HUGE step down" from a 300ZX. You can't, because it's not true.
quote:
The list was done in no particular order. If it was in order, the Z or the Porsche would've been at the head of the line. As for the Vette being the best anyone could hope to buy, I think you're very mistaken, or you have a bias to domestics. Mind you, under the American skin of the last few years of vettes, is the backbone of a Lotus. GM didn't think of that ideer themselves.
You have a hard time choosing between a Porsche 911 and a 300ZX? God, are you ever blinded by your love for those things....
Show me a car legal in Canada, under 80K Canadian brand new that can outperforms the 2004 Z06.
I want proof. Your opinion doesn't hold any merit anymore, let's see numbers.
Here's what you're comparing against:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.co...res/0410htp_zo/
Come on. I dare ya. |
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| 2003specv |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
If you want to live your life a 1/4 mile at a time, feel free. Buy a musclecar or a dragster. Sports cars are about a finely balanced engineering act between power AND handling.
You just don't get it do you? Okay, you own a 300ZX. Just because you own one it doesn't mean it's the fastest most best handling pimp ride out there (really, it doesn't). I bet if you owned an FD or Supra it would automatically be the worlds hottest car too huh? You're one of those types. Try to realise that all cars have their high points and low points and can all be enjoyed in one way or another. Stop trying to convince the whole world that your midlife crisis car is the epitome of 4 wheel motoring.
For the quarter mile thing, you must be blind and have missed my screen name and sig pic. Do you really think I give a crap about the 1/4 when I have a car that just makes it into the 14s? Obviously not. Just don't try to tell me your damn near stock Z is anywhere near the performance of newer Corvettes and 911s. |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by 2003specv
Stop trying to convince the whole world that your midlife crisis car is the epitome of 4 wheel motoring.
Hmmm....... midlife crisis. Has yet to happen.
I bought the Z when I was in my late 20's. It was the car I had wanted and waited for- for 6 YEARS! No...it is NOT the epitome of 4 wheel motoring as you so eloquently put it. I never claimed that. There are cars priced stratospherically high that have that claim. But... I OWN the car OUTRIGHT. I drive it as I please. I pay for it's fuel, insurance, maintenance and whatever toys I see fit to put in it. After 8 years it has never left me stranded by the side of the road or left me with ANY repair bills for other than regular maintenance. I have yet to see a more recent car that for me is it's equal on the fronts of power, handling, comfort and reliability( for almost any other sports car an oxymoron). What sits in MY garage is a world class sports car in every respect. I will hold this car in the high regard that myself and the rest of the grown-up motoring world has for a very long time. It's deserved it.
When you finally step up to the plate and buy a sports car of your own and then own it for more than 5 years, let me know. Only then will I consider your veiwpoint on MY car to have ANY merit to even consider it. But right now, don't even consider telling me what I should be thinking about my own car. No one on this little blue orb has THAT right. |
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| oldraven |
| Fair enough. Just don't expect anyone to respect your delusions. |
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| NTM |
:drama:
The 300zx is a nice car. Nissan obviously put alot of quality engineering time into it. You seem to like it ALOT.
I have a cabin in Cold Lake. I may bump into you when I'm there this summer. |
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| Mavrick |
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I don't visit the boards when I'm at work (I do my job while I'm at work, not mess around on the message boards).
Some of the things I wanted to respond to regarding your post have already been addressed by other people, so I won't continue on those, as I believe this is actually supposed to be a Mustang thread, not an argument about everything BUT the new Mustangs. Sorry for hijacking, but everybody else is having fun with it, too.
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
The rising yen and the baby boomers newfound love affair with SUV land yachts killed the Z, Supra and RX-7 which still perform at the level of the NEW vette. Don't think for a second that a Z owner like myself would ever consider lowering his standards to driving a domestic rattletrap. They're a HUGE step down.[/B]
The 300ZX, Supra, and RX-7 died for ONE reason. They tried to compete with the Corvette in both performance and price, and they lost. PERIOD. Not only did the Corvette out-perform all of them, but North Americans decided that for the same kind of cash outlay, they'd much rather have a Corvette.
quote:
under the American skin of the last few years of vettes, is the backbone of a Lotus. GM didn't think of that ideer themselves.
Two things to say on that one. I don't know what you are smoking to think that the Vette is a re-skinned Lotus of some sort, but it is completely unfounded and untrue.
Secondly, GM owns Lotus, and has for many years. So even when Chevrolet and Lotus engineers get together to compare notes and engineer new technologies, they are doing so as a part of the same team, for the benefit of the same company. Any technology that is made or owned by Lotus, is ultimately owned by GM anyway.
Am I biased? I don't think so. I'd love to have a 93 RX-7 TT, and if I ever see a good price on one, I'll buy one. A 300ZX TT or a Supra TT would be alright too, but if I could get a Corvette for the same price, I would probably go with the Vette.
Oh, and just to plug the Mustang the way it SHOULD be plugged, consider that it is a car that was designed to be powerful and fun, but CHEAP. The Mustang held the title of best bang for the buck, HP per dollar, or however you want to call it, for YEARS. Or is that, STILL?
Mav. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by NTM
:drama:
The 300zx is a nice car. Nissan obviously put alot of quality engineering time into it. You seem to like it ALOT.
I have a cabin in Cold Lake. I may bump into you when I'm there this summer.
Oh, I do hope so. And we'd all love to hear of the encounter. I can just imagine the results now. :fingersx: |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by NTM
The 300zx is a nice car. Nissan obviously put alot of quality engineering time into it. You seem to like it ALOT.
I have a cabin in Cold Lake. I may bump into you when I'm there this summer.
Hopefully so. We'll have a coffee and chat about cars. Provided I'm not out on the lake sailing or out cycling.
I've had the car for better than 8 years now. The Z caught my attention the first time I saw one in Feb of 1990 at the Calgary auto show and kept it. Me liking it ALOT is like saying that a hurricane is a little rainstorm with wind thrown in for good measure. NTM, dissin' a guys pride and joy is like poking a tiger in the eye and not expecting a response. Hence the downright nasty reply.
Nothing I've seen this side of 100 G's has yet been worthy of my attention as a sports car. Whatever someone else wants to spend their money on and try to call a sports car is their concern, not mine. I'm just expressing MY opinion.
The C5 Vette feels like I'm sitting in a bathtub looking over the lip. The Viper lacks finesse (part of it's own charm I guess), the M5 has too many seats and the interior layout isn't something I'm very pleased by. The Tiburon is a joke, the Golf GTI is a dressed up German/Mexican grocery getter. I'm 6'4", so a Mazda is not a great place for me to be, except maybe in the MPV- as a passenger. The Celica's styling dosen't do it for me. But the RSX would make a nice second car, provided I could get it as a diesel like my Golf. But to replace the Z, not happening to this guy.
IMHO, the "NEW" Mustang is a de-evolution aimed at aging baby boomers looking for nostalgia and young buyers looking to be thrilled by cheap horsepower (and wrapping shiny peices of metal around light and power poles). Due probably to production startup and satifying the home markets need for nostalgia and cheap horses, the new ones are harder to find right now. But I have few doubts that within a few short years the new & used lots and auto trader will be full of these cars, just as the current model is now. |
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| NTM |
Everyone has there own taste in cars, I myself tend to judge all cars based on modification potential over things like creature comforts, thus the car I drive now. I too have owned my car since it was new. I have a certain amount of pride in it, I've poured endless amounts of time and money into it, but I'm a realist in believing that there is always a faster, better built car than the one you own.
It's important not to adopt the snooty car and driver journalist attitude though and slam a car for not having the cupholders in the correct position, rather than focusing on it's positive attributes.
For the record, I consider the 300zx to be a nice combination of creature comforts and performance (I have driven both stock and modified ones), but performance-wise (straightline and sideways) it pales in comparison to the z06,rx7,supra, 2003+ cobra and dare I say, late model f-body.
I suggest getting out and actually test driving some of these offerings (I mean drive them hard, not inspect the supplenness of the leather or count the number of seats) before you proclaim the 300zx king of sports cars. |
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| 2003specv |
NTM, post some pics of your boosted LT1. Seriously, it sounds hot.
Make a thread in the pics section.:bthumbup: |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by NTM
...before you proclaim the 300zx king of sports cars.
Who said that???:dunno:
quote:
Originally posted by Z32nut
...it is NOT the epitome of 4 wheel motoring as you so eloquently put it. I never claimed that. There are cars priced stratospherically high that have that claim.
Read for comprehension. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
IMHO, the "NEW" Mustang is a de-evolution aimed at aging baby boomers looking for nostalgia and young buyers looking to be thrilled by cheap horsepower (and wrapping shiny peices of metal around light and power poles).
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :drama:
Mmmmmm, bad cheap horsepower is... corrupts the youth it does. :p |
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| SilverZ24 |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
Hmmm....... midlife crisis. Has yet to happen.
I bought the Z when I was in my late 20's. It was the car I had wanted and waited for- for 6 YEARS! No...it is NOT the epitome of 4 wheel motoring as you so eloquently put it. I never claimed that. There are cars priced stratospherically high that have that claim. But... I OWN the car OUTRIGHT. I drive it as I please. I pay for it's fuel, insurance, maintenance and whatever toys I see fit to put in it. After 8 years it has never left me stranded by the side of the road or left me with ANY repair bills for other than regular maintenance. I have yet to see a more recent car that for me is it's equal on the fronts of power, handling, comfort and reliability( for almost any other sports car an oxymoron). What sits in MY garage is a world class sports car in every respect. I will hold this car in the high regard that myself and the rest of the grown-up motoring world has for a very long time. It's deserved it.
When you finally step up to the plate and buy a sports car of your own and then own it for more than 5 years, let me know. Only then will I consider your veiwpoint on MY car to have ANY merit to even consider it. But right now, don't even consider telling me what I should be thinking about my own car. No one on this little blue orb has THAT right.
For someone that likes to preach in another thread about how you don't work to keep up with the jones and "My job does NOT define who I am. Nor does the collection of "stuff" to show off." you sure like to brag about your car all the time.
Most of the people here understand that different people have different tastes and that is what makes this place interesting. You can't seem to figure that out though.
For the record, I have only driven one 300ZX before, a 93, and not a tt. It had 140k and I have to say that car was hurting big time. Lots of rattles and the car didn't handle nearly as well as I thought it would. Performance sucked, but I'm sure the tt model would obviously be better in that respect. Bottom line, I think many of these old Japanese "supercars" as most people refer to them are just a bit overated. :dunno: |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Most of the people here understand that different people have different tastes and that is what makes this place interesting. You can't seem to figure that out though.
I know that quite fine, thank-you. But as far as bragging goes....
quote:
dissin' a guys pride and joy is like poking a tiger in the eye and not expecting a response.
So by that token, if I guess if someone called YOUR pimped out Z24 (which you are dumping after only 2 years?) a POS, you wouldn't respond?
The new Mustang was called in this thread, incorrectly in MY opinion, a sports car. In MY opinion, Mustangs, Camaros, Cuda's, GTO's fall into the catagory of "muscle"or "pony" cars. That was the opionion I was trying to express. After that, because of what I own, and compare other cars against, I got personally attacked for having my OWN opinion.
SilverZ24, I congratulate you for taking a ride in a NA 300ZX. Too bad it was in such poor shape. If you choose to base your opinion of my vehicle on that one, I guess I should base my opinion of YOUR car on my GF's rattley, undermaintained, base model Cavalier. Does that sound fair to you? |
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| oldraven |
Who called your car a POS? We're just saying it doesn't belong in Corvette/911 territory.
Man, you're such a hipocrite. He bases his opinion of the 300ZX on his experience in one, and you say he shouldn't clump them all together based on one that's in shitty shape. But you generalize, incorrectly I might add, ALL domestics as rattleboxes with ZERO handling and having terrible milage. Please go back and read all your posts in this thread. You may realize why you've stirred the pot so much. |
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| SilverZ24 |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling your car a POS. Maybe a bit overrated though. :p
And by driving a J-body, I'm used to people calling it a POS all the time even though they usually are driving far greater POS's themselves. lol
And the car is for sale because I'm bored of it and I want that new car smell again. :D |
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| ACX |
:lol: This just kills me.. I was gonna buy a new Mustang Gt, but for the epitome of performance, I think I'll buy this. It will bury it in everything including mileage.
:lol:
http://www.importconcern.ca/broker/10279/
300s, FDs, Supras priced themselves out of the market years ago. The ones that have returned are hardly cutting edge performance for the dollars..
Have fun in your time capsule..
edit: the fukctards that don't realize how well stangs and f-cars can handle have their heads buried deep in their asses. |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by ACX
the fukctards that don't realize how well stangs and f-cars can handle have their heads buried deep in their asses.
Some poeple have a taste for cars made in other places than the land of the Patriot act, mass hysteria about terrorism, and a leader that feels it's his country's right to invade far away lands in the name of homeland security.
Shove your head back up your OWN ass. You obviously love the smell of your own bullshit. |
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| ACX |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
Some poeple have a taste for cars made in other places than the land of the Patriot act, mass hysteria about terrorism, and a leader that feels it's his country's right to invade far away lands in the name of homeland security.
Shove your head back up your OWN ass. You obviously love the smell of your own bullshit.
My bullshit...
It's not jap cars that I have issues with. See sig..
You're wrong.
Those cars for the price in new cars don't handle well?
you're wrong.
New cars on average are getting worse mileage?
You're wrong.
Mustang was designed for baby boomers?
You're wrong.
Our children won't have enough gas when they grow up because the v8s are back in town?
You're wrong.
I'm afraid the cow pasture smell is coming from your neck of the woods..
edit: specific points. These cars are hardly barges meant for straight line performance only. I am not blindly pro domestic. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
Some poeple have a taste for cars made in other places than the land of the Patriot act, mass hysteria about terrorism, and a leader that feels it's his country's right to invade far away lands in the name of homeland security.
ROTFLMFAO!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by Z32NUT
Some poeple have a taste for cars made in other places than the land of the Patriot act, mass hysteria about terrorism, and a leader that feels it's his country's right to invade far away lands in the name of homeland security.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You guys crack me up. This is the best way to kill a few hours at work........... You can't pay for this kind of entertainment..... :bowdown:
Z32....... I think everyone realizes you love your car.......... and I think most are realizing why you are a nut as well.
Keep it coming these are classic 780 toooner posts!
P.S OH and the 05' stang looks great! Best bang for the buck....... I can't wait for the aftermarket to start adding more bling and oooomf to it! Its gonnna be one scary car......... and then a cobra............... oooooooooooooh how exciting. :bthumbup: to ford |
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| ae1969 |
I had only seen a couple of those pictures from SEMA.......... Thanks for the pics oldraven........ it really is amazing aftermarket support.
You really have to appreciat ford racings support on this .
Frankly second to none..... Crate engines available at 420hp, support for track racing and developments for a drag strip tub........... Great stuff.
http://seriouswheels.com/top-2005-F...s-2004-SEMA.htm |
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| 98 teg |
| getting back to the stang post I think it is one sweet looking ride and thats coming from an import/car lover... Id look at getting one but I've got a 67 that I will soon start working on...the 300 is a nice car but it did not evolve fast enough to keep up with the times... the new Stang and the C6 are finally contenders is the automotive industry |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by 98 teg
the new Stang and the C6 are finally contenders is the automotive industry
I think the word you're looking for here is again, not finally. They just went through a shitty spell, just as the rest of the markets did. Domestics just stayed in that spell a little longer.
I have never been a Ford fan, and haven't liked a Mustang built since '73, so for me to support this car is saying something. As for my car, it's not a Ford, it's a Thunderbird. It never did say Ford anywhere but on the Intake. ;) |
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| redbaron303 |
| Can you rent the new Stang yet??? I want to take one on a road trip to Calgary :) |
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| JustinL |
| I was hoping that they would do away with the solid rear axle and follow with the Cobras independant rear suspension. I want to see an '05 in person before I pass judgement. Given the choice right now between an '04 Cobra and an '05 GT it's hands down '04 Cobra. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
I was hoping that they would do away with the solid rear axle and follow with the Cobras independant rear suspension. I want to see an '05 in person before I pass judgement. Given the choice right now between an '04 Cobra and an '05 GT it's hands down '04 Cobra.
Well the 04 cobra vs 05 GT is a no brainer. 370RWHP vs 275RWPH..... uhmmmmm..... and its only an extra 6-8K between a loaded GT and the cobra so.... :D
FWIW, the solid axle is a great thing IMO. Its superior for drag racing, and will handle very very well on smooth roads (track), where it starts to fall down is over rougher roads because the end starts to hop. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303
Can you rent the new Stang yet??? I want to take one on a road trip to Calgary :)
Ford builds and releases base models and GT's to rental fleets at the same time as they do to dealers. That is in the states, at least. I imagine if they're not available yet, they will be in the next month. |
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| JustinL |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
FWIW, the solid axle is a great thing IMO. Its superior for drag racing, and will handle very very well on smooth roads (track), where it starts to fall down is over rougher roads because the end starts to hop.
I wish I could agree with you here... but I can't. IRS is far superior in almost any condition aside from drag racing on a smooth track. It's more robust for sure, and cheaper to build. As far as performance though... give me IRS any day.
Draw backs include much higher unsprung weight, harsher ride, higher ride height, and camber change from the other wheel riding over bumps and different terrain. Even on a perfectly smooth track, if you were to ride the inside rear wheel over the curb on the inside of the corner, you could knock the outer wheel's contact patch off. They have done a fantastic job with the solid axle design... but it's still limited.
Justin |
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| SilverZ24 |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303
Can you rent the new Stang yet??? I want to take one on a road trip to Calgary :)
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Ford builds and releases base models and GT's to rental fleets at the same time as they do to dealers. That is in the states, at least. I imagine if they're not available yet, they will be in the next month.
Well they are available for fleet sales as I can order them on our fleet account, but Ford is only offering a $1500 discount for fleet right now so there probably won't be many available for rent at the begining, but that discount will almost certainly double later in 05. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
I wish I could agree with you here... but I can't. IRS is far superior in almost any condition aside from drag racing on a smooth track. It's more robust for sure, and cheaper to build. As far as performance though... give me IRS any day.
Draw backs include much higher unsprung weight, harsher ride, higher ride height, and camber change from the other wheel riding over bumps and different terrain. Even on a perfectly smooth track, if you were to ride the inside rear wheel over the curb on the inside of the corner, you could knock the outer wheel's contact patch off. They have done a fantastic job with the solid axle design... but it's still limited.
Justin
Actually, the solid rear end in the stangs is lighter than their IRS setup (pre 05 anyway, go ford :rolleyes: ), and once you start bumping up the power and increasing your traction (slicks) you start snapping halfshafts. So, for these particular cars (pre 05 anyway), the solid was not too bad (but it did need some work in order to really drive well, no argument).
All the rest of what you said = :bthumbup: |
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| JustinL |
| I was referring to the unsprung weight, as the differential and asociated bits have to move with the suspension. Overall, I'll bet the whole system is lighter though. Absolutley agree with you on launching the car... I know all about broken CV joints.:mad: |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
I was referring to the unsprung weight, as the differential and asociated bits have to move with the suspension. Overall, I'll bet the whole system is lighter though.
Ahhh, my bad. :) |
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| Z32NUT |
quote:
Originally posted by ae1969
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Z32....... I think everyone realizes you love your car.......... and I think most are realizing why you are a nut as well.
Considering that I've owned it longer than 3/4 of the people on this forum have been old enough to even get a learners permit, yes, I do.
And I'm a nut only about my car, sailing and cycling. Interchangeably. |
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| 98 teg |
| MUSTANG FOR EVER :p |
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| oldraven |
| For some. I was just trying to remind people that this thread was about the Mustang, not the old 300ZX. |
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