| 4kruzn |
Here is my problem. I live in Edmonton. Why is it that with all the really cool Import drag racing we all see on TV everyone in Edmonton stll thinks its not cool to have a race car. Please help me to understand why it is that I should build a 3000lb+ street car to race rather than a 2200lb caged race car.
I am sorry to stir up the racing Kettle again with this question but It is one that I still cannot get my head wrapped around. I for one want to see some sub 10second runs in edmonton this summer and maybe the reason we dont is in the answer to this question. thanks. :dunno: |
|
|
| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
Here is my problem. I live in Edmonton. Why is it that with all the really cool Import drag racing we all see on TV everyone in Edmonton stll thinks its not cool to have a race car. Please help me to understand why it is that I should build a 3000lb+ street car to race rather than a 2200lb caged race car.
I am sorry to stir up the racing Kettle again with this question but It is one that I still cannot get my head wrapped around. I for one want to see some sub 10second runs in edmonton this summer and maybe the reason we dont is in the answer to this question. thanks. :dunno:
I like an all purpose vehicle myself.
I hate trailering the Sivik to the track. I would much prefer to drive my racecar to the track with the slicks/race tires in the trunk/hatch, and swap them at the track. Run some 10's/9's, swap the tires and drive away.
A caged race car would be cool, no doubt about it, but at this stage if I am going to sink a stack of cash into a promotion vehicle I want it to be on the streets daily as well as out at the track on the weekends.
Hell, the single biggest Sivik hater comment is that "it is a caged race car".
I think people respect a FAST street car much more than a FAST! race car. They identify with it more. |
|
|
| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
I think people respect a FAST street car much more than a FAST! race car. They identify with it more.
I think this is the biggest point.
Also, making a 10 second, daily driver/weekend driver is more difficult than a full out drag race car.
Not saying that cage building & all associated hardcore race stuff is easy but there are more variables one has to take in to make sure their car is streetable & relatively comfy...thus harder.
a good example would be fuel & ignition tuning
just my opinion :D |
|
|
| 4kruzn |
I totally understand the "promotion car idea" but to run 10's and or even 9's it does in fact have to have a cage. so the cage reason is not valad. your civic with tail lights and blinker could be a street drivin car. so I need more clarificaton.
I sit and listen to people making fun of the "door slammer" class of V8 cars. the snickers hehehehe thats not a real street car.... Im sure you've all heard it. so why dont we try to build some real race cars?
11.49 or faster and it needs a roll bar and 10.50 or faster and it needs a cage so why not build it light and strong and go really fast????
ex. my 90 rx7 in a perfect wourld. ..dyno proven 440rwhp. stock form 3000lbs. could run theoretical 11.2 1/4 mile on a race calulator
my 88 caged car with that engine. 2200lbs. theoetical 10.4 1/4 mile.
at a little more boost and a good race tranny maybe one of these cars could run a 9.90
both cars are second gen rx7 now which one would you like to see try to run.
Im not condemming street cars athat are fast. I love them I'm just trying fo get to the bottom of this reasoning for not wanting to see race cars racing. |
|
|
| 95IntegraRS |
| I'd love to see you go out and race a caged monster to a 9-second run. Thats what I've been waiting for for the longest time. I am really excited to see what Apex / Pro Drag can do this year because I think these two shops are most capable of putting a car into the low 10s, possibly the 9s in the near future. I mean, if they keep the competition on the boil that is. |
|
|
| MeXx |
| I thnink you sould do that import fd idea and make that a race car. :bthumbup: |
|
|
| stealth |
I personally rather see a daily driven car break into the 10/11 than a race car into the 9's.
Race cars do not amuse me as much as street driven cars.
When i see a street car all i think is, o wow, it was made to go fast and thats all its good for, you cant even daily drive it.
But a car like Black Sunshine, or My buddies cousin's civic from Calgary, those are good cars, they are daily driven, and still run those times.
Its much more amusing to see what a car can run at the track and still be driveable around the city. |
|
|
| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
I totally understand the "promotion car idea" but to run 10's and or even 9's it does in fact have to have a cage. so the cage reason is not valad. your civic with tail lights and blinker could be a street drivin car. so I need more clarificaton.
You are correct. It does have to have a cage. I can have a cage with door bars that is legal so for everyday use I don't have to "dukes of hazzard" into and out of the car.
The local mentality seems to think that you need a full interior, or at least a stock appearing interior.
I like to listen to tunes, so a radio and some speakers are nice in my daily car. |
|
|
| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
Im not condemming street cars athat are fast. I love them I'm just trying fo get to the bottom of this reasoning for not wanting to see race cars racing.
I do want to see RACE cars racing. The Sivik is kind of a half RACE car. I personally don't want to put alot of time and effort into that platform in it's current layout to take it the rest of the way.
The Sivik was a pre-existing entity when I took over control of Pro Drag so I worked with what I had. Now that the LS motor has been abused and finally died it opens up the door to bigger and better things. It all boils down to cost effectiveness. RWD k24 Sivik or H22 FWD Sivik or start with a better platform that is already RWD/AWD. We will see how the offseason pans out. |
|
|
| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by 95IntegraRS
I'd love to see you go out and race a caged monster to a 9-second run. Thats what I've been waiting for for the longest time. I am really excited to see what Apex / Pro Drag can do this year because I think these two shops are most capable of putting a car into the low 10s, possibly the 9s in the near future. I mean, if they keep the competition on the boil that is.
Competition is what drives the scene, alot of people don't realize that. I have a Street Racer mentality - hope I don't get banned for saying that, let me explain.
Street Racer Mentality - Never show them what you REALLY have. Only show them enough to WIN. If you show vast superiority right off that bat, other's get discouraged. The Sivik had this problem the season before last, we couldn't get any shop to line up against us at the track. The only person to step up was Mitsuman (Marcin) with his daily driven DSM.
He beat the Sivik fair and square, he tree'd Rob so bad that Rob still has goes into a swearing fit anytime it comes up in conversation.
:bthumbup:
I'll be the first to give respect to Apex for pushing their car to the low low 12's. I would have loved to have a re-match after the Sivik threw a rod but unfortunately time constraints and the end of the season did not allow it. |
|
|
| Adam @ Apex |
It was fun driving the car that fast but I have to agree that I would rather see a street car go fast.
Thats why the Apex SRT will probably be built up for the road races this year as that was its original intention with the car. We just wanted to show everyone that we could build a fast car on the 1/4.
This year I will be focusing my efforts on my street car, and with a couple of friends their cars. I can pretty much see a 100% chance of a car in the 10's this year. My car hoping to match the srt and get a deep 12.
There will be an unvailing at the track this year of a private garage project that we like to call SRT-400. It will more than likely do very well.
Back to what Conroy was saying...I have no problem with anyone trailering a car....and any car with less that 6 cylinders or no cylinders at all get into the 10's locally I would be very impressed by....because its never been done around here
And conroy....go with the RHD...it can do it. |
|
|
| Kyle.@apex |
man rotor, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 ... ba they can all make what we love .. POWER !
Rides are the shit weather your a db sound blasting junkie or the kid that would rather live at the track trying to guess if someones running to rich by the smell of there exhaust.
Fuck this talk everyone, sell the dam house wife and kids just do what you gota do.
I have a ride for the track im building, its no next day ride cus that rushed shit is ghetto and im not the type to be happy with a slow 11/12seckond car either.
So lets see whos all trying to make the next rocket and be the envy of thease smack talking wana bs.
Be Loud, powerfull n proud.
|
|
|
| Kyle.@apex |
| o and happy newyears everyone ;) |
|
|
| PraxRX7 |
personally I hate drag racing, everyone I know knows that.
Sad reality is, this shitty city only has a good drag track, we don't have any tracks to actually rip around on (i don't consider race city a good track).
That said, when I AM at the drag races, nothing bores me more then watching a Laborgini Diablo make a 12.47 Run....
When I am watching drag racing, I want to see some crazy car (not a funny car, but not street necessarily) come out and pull off a 10....if I saw a 9 second run it would probably peak my interest.
I say build yourself a really fast drag car, roll cage, etc. :bthumbup: Break into the high 8's and I'll buy some :beer: |
|
|
| Adam @ Apex |
quote:
Originally posted by PraxRX7
if I saw a 9 second run it would probably peak my interest.
I say build yourself a really fast drag car, roll cage, etc. :bthumbup: Break into the high 8's and I'll buy some :beer:
this is a snobby response at best...obviously you dont know how hard it is to get a car into the 11's let alone the 8's!!!!
IMO a street driven 12 second car is very fast...youre in 100,000 dollar car territory there. Nothing to be ashamed of and a time that most people dont realize whats happening for power levels in the cars either. |
|
|
| Praylewd powr |
quote:
Originally posted by Kyle.@apex
Rides are the shit weather your a db sound blasting junkie or the kid that would rather live at the track trying to guess if someones running to rich by the smell of there exhaust.
Fuck this talk everyone, sell the dam house wife and kids just do what you gota do.
I have a ride for the track im building, its no next day ride cus that rushed shit is ghetto and im not the type to be happy with a slow 11/12seckond car either.
So lets see whos all trying to make the next rocket and be the envy of thease smack talking wana bs.
Be Loud, powerfull n proud.
Is this guy serious! I'm not the type to be happy with a SLOW 11 second car!! Does your dakota run 11's? Do you know how hard it is to run a consistent 11?
I am with Adam on this, I consider anything in the 12's a FAST street car.
I can't wait to see all the 11 second cars out this spring.
:rolleyes: |
|
|
| PraxRX7 |
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
at a little more boost and a good race tranny maybe one of these cars could run a 9.90
9.90 is what he is claiming is possible to be run, now THAT is something I wouldnt mind seeing.
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
this is a snobby response at best...obviously you dont know how hard it is to get a car into the 11's let alone the 8's!!!!
IMO a street driven 12 second car is very fast...youre in 100,000 dollar car territory there. Nothing to be ashamed of and a time that most people dont realize whats happening for power levels in the cars either.
Snobby, man slow down for a minute. U gonna start throwing around insults for 1 mans opinion???
A street driven 12 second car can cost $5000. Believe me I know that anything under 12 is difficult territory to achieve, but did you not read my response. I am NOT a drag racing fan, I dont like it, and never will.
If you have $100,000 into your drag car it better do more than 12s in the 1/4 mile. (I understand that the guy from calgary was just exibitioning, but it was a good example).
If I go to the track and see 100 cars run 12 seconds, I am not impressed. If I go to the track and see 1 car run 9's another 10's and the odd few dipping into the 11's, then its not a bad day.
Just sayin, this guy wants to build an all out drag car that will pull insane times, and I am encouraging that because to many people are making 12 second street cars. |
|
|
| 95IntegraRS |
| Too many people are making 12 second street cars eh? Well, I must be missing out on something because I only see a few there Trevor. Maybe in general, there are a lot of fast imports, but not in Edmonton ;) |
|
|
| PraxRX7 |
| whatever, obviously people arent intitled to their opinion on this site anymore without getting bashed. |
|
|
| ChromeDragon |
I'm not a huge fan of drag myself either, but it's relatively cheap as far as official racing events go and I haven't had to spend much on my car to run decent times. I hope to be doing a whole lot more racing next summer (shouldn't be a problem with school over), but I won't restrict myself to any one type of event.
The one thing I really want to try next year is rally. I would be entering in a stock class with an older 2wd car and just seeing how fast I can push the car and improve my driving skill.
On top of rally I plan to do a few autox events, some drag events, most likely even a couple drift events (man I'm going to need a good tire hookup!).
As for the full on race car vs. street car debate. I plan on having a full on race car eventually for road racing. But myself and many others are not able to afford a pure race car. It costs a lot of money to have a competitive high-end drag car and not a whole lot of people have the spare scratch hanging around to build those cars.
Regardless, this coming summer should be an interesting one. The racing scene in Edmonton is growing to heights that it hasn't seen since the late 60s/early 70s when gas and fast cars were cheap and plentiful.:bthumbup: |
|
|
| DarrylBleau |
Just to throw in my 2 cents...
I like driving. Wait, scratch that. I _love_ driving. I think I was born for it (not to say that I'm good at it, but I'm saying that I have so much fun doing it I think it's what I was meant to do). As such, I like to see fast cars that are capable of doing more than just going in a straight line. I like cars that are made to _drive_, not take a trailer to the track and get their gas pedal mashed down for a few seconds. I like drag racing, of course, but I don't like purpose built drag racing cars, because they aren't made for driving. I hope that makes some sort of sense. It is new years eve, after all.
So that same talon that ran the 11.9 might not have been the fastest drag car this season, (though, it was close :) ), but consider that I drive that car on the street, in the winter, and that car is also set up to do the autox scene (unfortunately, it didn't make it out to the autox this year due to untimely installations).
So yes, I really couldn't care less what a non-street legal trailer queen does on the 1/4, because it's no longer a car in my opinion, it's a short-term conveyor belt. Show me an autocrossing street legal all-weather capable car (with a heater and stereo!) doing 11s over a drag-only 9 second car any day. |
|
|
| v8slayer |
quote:
Originally posted by 95IntegraRS
Too many people are making 12 second street cars eh? Well, I must be missing out on something because I only see a few there Trevor. Maybe in general, there are a lot of fast imports, but not in Edmonton ;)
I was doing 12's when Elite was open 3-1/2 years ago.
Its not hard so 10's this year is a given. |
|
|
| Kyle.@apex |
quote:
Originally posted by Praylewd powr
Is this guy serious! I'm not the type to be happy with a SLOW 11 second car!! Does your dakota run 11's? Do you know how hard it is to run a consistent 11?
I am with Adam on this, I consider anything in the 12's a FAST street car.
I can't wait to see all the 11 second cars out this spring.
:rolleyes:
:loco: My Dakotas got what I want.
ya like everyone elce is saying I dont like to see slow cars .. AT THE TRACK.
Cars like Darryl and Rons are insane. The fact they can drive them on the street just makes them that much cooler.
but still you can do some fun stuff to your car when its track only like any exhaust you want / anything u want ect. |
|
|
| se-i |
| Im not trying to be the fastest this year.Just different Im taking a honda without vtec with sohc and 12 valve and makeing it run mid 12's and better. |
|
|
| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by v8slayer
I was doing 12's when Elite was open 3-1/2 years ago.
Its not hard so 10's this year is a given.
Are you going to blaze the trail to the 10 second club? |
|
|
| 95IntegraRS |
| No smack talk. If your gonna do it, do it. |
|
|
| midnite |
| i'm much more impressed with a car that comes to the weekend night meets and cruises, than a car that spends its life only on the strip even if it is a couple seconds faster. |
|
|
| REDX2NV |
Hah, theoretically you could build a 12 sec vehicle for 5 g's.... Realistically, hell no. There so much you have to take in to effect... After spend all my money, i think now, who cares if your car is fast, there is someone always faster than you and no matter how much you spend you will never be on top.
Want speed, save your money and buy a crotch rocket. My sled is faster than both my vehicles which have endless mods, while its fairly stock. |
|
|
| 4kruzn |
good point. that is exactly what i was trying to say. if we all go out and buy sleds we can drag race them and talk about how much we all love snowmobiling .......:dunno:
NO, but seriously..... WTF....... this is a CAR enthusiast web site and we are talking about CARS in this thread. thanks for the imput.
PS REDX2NV I all ready have a car that has run 12.2. 1/4 mile the question is should I put the 450hp engine into it and add 150hp to what ran 12.2 or leave the 450 hp engine in the heavy street car and have two cars capable of 12.2 or faster.
personally I am a bit disapointed in the standard responce from all of you NON street racer advocates who all think a street racer is way cooler than a race car. I guess im just tooo old for this stuff.
thanks for all your imput.:bthumbup: |
|
|
| JB's Racing |
Lot of good posts on this topic. I guess I'll chime in with my own opinion.
Personally, I'm both a big fan of fast street cars as well as dedicated race cars. In my opinion, the real difference is in the compromises that you need to make with a street car.
For example, with a dedicated race car, any work that you do to the car can be for the sole purpose of making the car faster or more consistent. It's simple; if a modification, tune-up change or new part will make the car faster, you can go ahead and do it. You never have to worry about the car having acceptable street manners (or even being close to street legal).
Car idles at 3500 rpm? No problem, as long as its fast.
The car detonates like crazy on anything less than VP 116 Race gas? No problem, as long as its fast.
The car wears out three sets of valve springs a year? No problem, as long as its fast.
The 5.38 gears mean that the car runs 6000 rpm at 100 kph? No problem, as long as its fast.
With a fast street car, there is always some form of compromise. No question, some guys are willing to compromise a lot more than others.
With a street car, you always have to question how a particular modification will affect the drivability of the car.
For example: No stereo, no interior, no air conditioning will all make for a faster car, but will definitely reduce the comfort level of the car, and might reduce the overall enjoyment too.
Huge Boost/Compression, Big Cams & lots of revs are great for power, but can really kill your drivability.
Again, some guys can live with a lot more than others, and there's a big difference between a car that you can drive to Florida and back and a car that can drive on a Sunday afternoon (as long as it doesen't have to sit in traffic).
No question that a lot of the street vs. race compromises can be reduced with a bigger budget, but that's not often a reality for a lot of guys.
My opinion is that no matter what, even the most far-gone "Street Car" would still be faster (and probably more user friendly) if it were to just be a dedicated race car.
My personal preference is to either have both a race car and a fast street car, and to pick just one or the other if budget doesen't allow for both.
My race car philosophy: Do whatever makes it a faster, more consistent car; even if it means a little bit of butchery.
My fast street car philosophy: Make the car the most fun. To me this means easy maintenance (but not zero), pump gas friendly, reasonable idle, can be driven for a whole afternoon without overheating, and has any sort of comfort items that I want (currently that's a full interior, but no radio and no AC). If a modification will make the car faster, but more of a pain in the ass to live with (than it is already), then I probably won't do it.
If the car goes 12's great, if it's slower, I can live with it.
Just my two cents.
Anybody Ice Racing this year? |
|
|
| snugs |
...who gives a flying fuck.
Build what you like, you're the one who's going to be driving it and paying for it so you damn well better enjoy it and to hell with what anybody else says. :D |
|
|
| 2000z |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
...who gives a flying fuck.
Build what you like, you're the one who's going to be driving it and paying for it so you damn well better enjoy it and to hell with what anybody else says. :D
:bowdown: Hit, nail, on, head.
For me: If I could afford a race car and a daily driver I would still make it streetable. Just because I would want to drive it to the track and around town in the summer. Actually I plan to when I'm done school. My "race car" will just be stripped of most interior parts except a stock head unit with two door speakers and a couple of race buckets. I'll shot of nitrous, do some weight reductin and some more breathing mods until it blows up. Then a forged bottom end and an even larger shot of nitrous. |
|
|
| REDX2NV |
quote:
Originally posted by 4kruzn
good point. that is exactly what i was trying to say. if we all go out and buy sleds we can drag race them and talk about how much we all love snowmobiling .......:dunno:
NO, but seriously..... WTF....... this is a CAR enthusiast web site and we are talking about CARS in this thread. thanks for the imput.
PS REDX2NV I all ready have a car that has run 12.2. 1/4 mile the question is should I put the 450hp engine into it and add 150hp to what ran 12.2 or leave the 450 hp engine in the heavy street car and have two cars capable of 12.2 or faster.
personally I am a bit disapointed in the standard responce from all of you NON street racer advocates who all think a street racer is way cooler than a race car. I guess im just tooo old for this stuff.
thanks for all your imput.:bthumbup:
Yea sorry i got OT for a bit there and forgot about your situation.. Anyways, your FC is badass, leave the engine in there... But hey, thats just my opinion. |
|
|
| bigmack000 |
| fuck it buy them/ build them both thats my moto :D! why only do one when 2 is so much better :bthumbup: :beer: |
|
|
|
