| jerthehair |
So went to court Tuesday to fight the bogus exhaust ticket that seems to be the dumbest law around and won, wel just laugh with the judge actually.
Yes he actually coudn't believe that there was a reason for this as a felony. I explained my case as the law has no starting point stated on the basis of widening, be it over stock or max diamter or shape or nothing. (HKS carbon/ti 5" ) Showed him the actual size of the HKS tip from thier web site stating diameter and showed him a pic of the exaust on the car with a measuring tape next to the tip, and away we go.
Waived the fine and now have proof of the ticket being released from court manuscript docet so any other popo can get bent.
:D |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by jerthehair
So went to court Tuesday to fight the bogus exhaust ticket that seems to be the dumbest law around and won, wel just laugh with the judge actually.
Yes he actually coudn't believe that there was a reason for this as a felony. I explained my case as the law has no starting point stated on the basis of widening, be it over stock or max diamter or shape or nothing. (HKS carbon/ti 5" ) Showed him the actual size of the HKS tip from thier web site stating diameter and showed him a pic of the exaust on the car with a measuring tape next to the tip, and away we go.
Waived the fine and now have proof of the ticket being released from court manuscript docet so any other popo can get bent.
:D
Awesome! :bowdown:
You've got to share the information about the ticket being dismissed out of hand so that the other people who have gotten them can get them dismissed too. Call it precedent!!!!
..now to kill these loud exhaust tickets and we're all set! :blue: |
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| jerthehair |
| the ticket is bullshit and they know it , i actually got the ticket in september and had the court date delayed because of work(retail and x-mas.....get it) and wasted thier time and money the ticketing officer was at the first apperence on his time because he was rc they don't get paid for traffic court bylaw does so check 1 |
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| ae1969 |
Awesome. Great stuff.
I was kinda getting worried about my 3 inch exhaust with the 4 inch tip for the upcoming summer.
Thanks for showing up in court. :) |
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| energie |
| nice, good job:bthumbup: |
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| ChromeDragon |
| If you're willing maybe you could place up your court case so that others can use it as a precedent. Court cases in Canada are ruled based on previous cases, so your ticket being dismissed can help others so long as they are in the same jurisdiction with similar circumstances. |
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| jerthehair |
what should i post up?
i am in grande prairie maybe the location does have something to do with it, and was one of 3 people that showed up that were on the docet out of 68. |
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| snugs |
Those tickets are based on provincial law (Highway Traffic Act 46(4)), so location shouldn't matter.
(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by
an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler, the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened. |
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| 180drifter |
| it would be great if you could post the court manuscript. On your ticket was your offence under 61(2)? |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by 180drifter
it would be great if you could post the court manuscript. On your ticket was your offence under 61(2)?
61(2) of the VER = 46(4) of HTA
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled
by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the
muffler has been widened. |
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| silverTEG |
| i thought my sig was original :dunno: |
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| 90teg |
| DAMM .. i was gunna take it to court.. but didnt.. i paid 220 $$ OMG .. |
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| BananaBoy |
| Good Work :bthumbup: |
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| No-Pistons |
| good for you man |
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| s2oooR |
| Wonder what brotha Jim has to say about all this? Isnt he the officer that comes in here sometimes and posts?:dunno: |
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| REFLUX |
how would jerthehair go about posting his case up as precedent???
if anyone knows how that would be great to give him a hand, it'll benefit all those people who have gotten/will get exhaust tickets |
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| Flex |
| good job............finally nice to see some real justice served for once.........:bthumbup: |
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| Hot_Wheelz |
Props dude!!! Glad to finally see someone come out on top!!!!
Thats one small step for rice.. one giant step for uncle bens... :bthumbup: |
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| KAOS41 |
Next time someone is breaking the law by speeding and kills a small child please post your court case up so that I know how to beat the murder rap next time I go street racing
do us all a favor buy legal exhaust and quit wasting my tax dollars and wasting police oficers time |
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| 180drifter |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
Next time someone is breaking the law by speeding and kills a small child please post your court case up so that I know how to beat the murder rap next time I go street racing
do us all a favor buy legal exhaust and quit wasting my tax dollars and wasting police oficers time
You are comparing apples to oranges!!!
If you have a big fart can, then yes you should get a ticket.
However it you have a quiet exhaust with a tip on it (see the pic I posted in the EPS Hyundai Tib thread) you are doing nothing wrong! There is a big difference between someone that spends the money on a quality highflow exhaust system with a tip on the end for show, and some ricer with a huge muffler that sounds like a 110 dB lawnmower.
Futhermore, the police and the court are wasting my time giving me this ticket. If stupid vague ricer laws like this didnt exist, or if they were revampted to address the problem which is noise, then this wouldnt be a issue in the first place!
Give your head a shake and think before you post. |
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| DeathBy240 |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
Next time someone is breaking the law by speeding and kills a small child please post your court case up so that I know how to beat the murder rap next time I go street racing
do us all a favor buy legal exhaust and quit wasting my tax dollars and wasting police oficers time
Lets have a moment of silence for all those killed by enlarged mufflers. :rolleyes: |
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| jerthehair |
its not my widened exuast that kills people its my car speeding through school zones............WTF are you on dude.
fighting a dumb cashcow law and being happy about showing a real world result that makes a difference to everyone here is great for all of us. unfortunatley its just stupid to you.
:bthumbup: |
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| WeDgE |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
Next time someone is breaking the law by speeding and kills a small child please post your court case up so that I know how to beat the murder rap next time I go street racing
do us all a favor buy legal exhaust and quit wasting my tax dollars and wasting police oficers time
By that token, the only legal exhaust is the stock one. Better go return your fartcan...
Please, please, please tell me how larger exhaust equates to street racing, Mr. Hawking? |
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| HKSpowers |
good job i like hearing how useless fines are being thrown out of court.
Good to see one unbias judge. Now if only you could convince the Crown Prosicutor to see eye to eye. |
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| Flex |
quote:
Originally posted by DeathBy240
Lets have a moment of silence for all those killed by enlarged mufflers. :rolleyes:
no kidding............:rolleyes: |
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| No-Pistons |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
Next time someone is breaking the law by speeding and kills a small child please post your court case up so that I know how to beat the murder rap next time I go street racing
do us all a favor buy legal exhaust and quit wasting my tax dollars and wasting police oficers time
hahaha what a fag |
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| Mekanik22 |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
do us all a favor buy legal exhaust and quit wasting my tax dollars and wasting police oficers time
Do us all a favor and stop wasting bandwidth on 780tuners... |
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| Mekanik22 |
quote:
Originally posted by jerthehair
So went to court Tuesday to fight the bogus exhaust ticket that seems to be the dumbest law around and won, wel just laugh with the judge actually.
Yes he actually coudn't believe that there was a reason for this as a felony. I explained my case as the law has no starting point stated on the basis of widening, be it over stock or max diamter or shape or nothing. (HKS carbon/ti 5" ) Showed him the actual size of the HKS tip from thier web site stating diameter and showed him a pic of the exaust on the car with a measuring tape next to the tip, and away we go.
Waived the fine and now have proof of the ticket being released from court manuscript docet so any other popo can get bent.
:D
Ok, I don't fully understand what your saying here. So you explained to him the law doesn't state a starting diameter whether it's aftermarket, stock, or has some type of other shape?
Then you went on HKS's website got your muffler, took a picture of the measurement of yours on the car and showed him that comparison? I don't see how this would help you? Just because it's on a website of a huge manufacturer doesn't mean it's legal, so what were you proving with this comparison? |
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| KAOS41 |
You guys are all my hero's I hope that one day I can be like you
when I am done building my car I'll rice out Geo Storm and then maybe you will all except me as a fellow tuner on www.780ricers.com.....I guess the old saying laws are made to be broken apply here....hmmmmmm who should I murder tonight |
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| Buddyworm |
Sweet, now I can actually buy an exhaust without worrying about rediculous fines.
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
You guys are all my hero's I hope that one day I can be like you
when I am done building my car I'll rice out Geo Storm and then maybe you will all except me as a fellow tuner on www.780ricers.com.....I guess the old saying laws are made to be broken apply here....hmmmmmm who should I murder tonight
:lol: There's just nothing you can say to that!
B-Wurm :D |
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| bigmack000 |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
how would jerthehair go about posting his case up as precedent???
if anyone knows how that would be great to give him a hand, it'll benefit all those people who have gotten/will get exhaust tickets
i will ask my mom terry |
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| DeathBy240 |
quote:
Originally posted by bigmack000
i will ask my mom terry
She didnt seem to know when I asked her last night.:cool: |
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| Wask |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
You guys are all my hero's I hope that one day I can be like you
when I am done building my car I'll rice out Geo Storm and then maybe you will all except me as a fellow tuner on www.780ricers.com.....I guess the old saying laws are made to be broken apply here....hmmmmmm who should I murder tonight
 |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| if they made a law that you couldnt show your ugly face in public or have sex with anything but your hand would you follow it cuz its law? |
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| bigmack000 |
quote:
Originally posted by DeathBy240
She didnt seem to know when I asked her last night.:cool:
can we get off my mom already i just got off your's! |
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| bigmack000 |
quote:
REFLUX
how would jerthehair go about posting his case up as precedent???
if anyone knows how that would be great to give him a hand, it'll benefit all those people who have gotten/will get exhaust tickets
ok what we need is for the guy who started the thread.
to give us the court date and the court case name/number what ever it is.
then who ever gets a ticket like this again can call court clerks office and give them the date and name and ask for a transcipt. you can call and get one now to keep on file or to make copys for every one then from there its all case law.
Joel |
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| Kyle2K |
| The date should be Tuesday January, 4th 2005 according to the initial post. Now we just need a case#. |
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| bigmack000 |
| yup then were all set :) |
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| scooby_dooby |
wow, that is freakin awesome, i want my copy!
hopefully he posts up all the info. |
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| Flex |
| anyone here from that dude that was looking for the police tiburon pics???....his court date was yesterday |
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| 180drifter |
Ya, I went to court yesterday. I got it reduced to $58, but only becase I had removed the tip from around the outlet.
I couldnt submit the letter I had my mechanic write up without him being summoned to court, so that sucked.
The judge didnt care about the EPS car. I told him it was legal, explained what they do with it, and I showed him the pics. He said that it had no relivance, and the police are allowed to bend laws anyway (he refered to them being able to speed).
The cop said the tip was to increase the sound (stupid retard). I said the tip was for looks.The judge said that regardless of the inlet and outelt being the same size there was no reason for a tip of that size to be on the muffler, as the stock muffler didnt have a simmilar tip.
Both the Cop and the judge obvousily know very little about how exhaust systems work. I was glad it was reduced, but still a little pissed that the judge didnt side with me. |
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| 180drifter |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
You guys are all my hero's I hope that one day I can be like you
when I am done building my car I'll rice out Geo Storm and then maybe you will all except me as a fellow tuner on www.780ricers.com.....I guess the old saying laws are made to be broken apply here....hmmmmmm who should I murder tonight
I drive a stock looking 240sx (other than BBS rims, and a slighly lowered ride height) and I swapped in a sr20det. How is that rice? Its a fast car that is fun to drive. Just outta curiosity what do you drive?
Im not sure why I am wasting my time responding to your post as its pretty obvious you really arent that bright, expecially with statments like "who am i gonna muder tonight" when the rest of are discusing preformance exhaust sytems that really should be considered legal. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by 180drifter
Ya, I went to court yesterday. I got it reduced to $58, but only becase I had removed the tip from around the outlet.
I couldnt submit the letter I had my mechanic write up without him being summoned to court, so that sucked.
The judge didnt care about the EPS car. I told him it was legal, explained what they do with it, and I showed him the pics. He said that it had no relivance, and the police are allowed to bend laws anyway (he refered to them being able to speed).
The cop said the tip was to increase the sound (stupid retard). I said the tip was for looks.The judge said that regardless of the inlet and outelt being the same size there was no reason for a tip of that size to be on the muffler, as the stock muffler didnt have a simmilar tip.
That's what I expected for them to tell you but if the judge had actually stated that the issue was the tip (and not the inlet/outlet size of the muffler) then you could have reasonably asked him why you were being ticketed at all. If you were charged under 61(2) then letter of the law is quite specific and if the judge said that the outlet was not the issue then you could have asked for the ticket to be dismissed.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled
by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the
muffler has been widened. |
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| DarrylBleau |
code:
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled
by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the
muffler has been widened.
You know what I've always wondered about this, is that the law doesn't say anything about that the muffler has to be an OEM muffler, it just says the exhaust outlet of the muffler on the vehicle can't be widened. So does that mean that if I have a 4" in/out muffler I could put a 4" tip on it without violating this section?
Course it seems like a moot point at this time, but it's a poorly worded, vaguely written law. (Imagine that). |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by KAOS41
You guys are all my hero's I hope that one day I can be like you
when I am done building my car I'll rice out Geo Storm and then maybe you will all except me as a fellow tuner on www.780ricers.com.....I guess the old saying laws are made to be broken apply here....hmmmmmm who should I murder tonight
Sorry beat ya to it, quite a few years ago...
Sorry off topic... but anyhow the above car had a 2.5" exhaust, I cut the cat off and ran the pipe from infront of where the cat was, I had a cherry bomb bout mid way down, right under the shift, and then i had a duel 2" glass pack tip, the thing was louder with an exhaust than with straight pipe, never got bugged about the noise or tip size...
it was a bit loud... bout the only thing it was good for was telling if my car was warmed up in the winter, i could go out start it, go back inside and I could hear it idle down. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
That's what I expected for them to tell you but if the judge had actually stated that the issue was the tip (and not the inlet/outlet size of the muffler) then you could have reasonably asked him why you were being ticketed at all. If you were charged under 61(2) then letter of the law is quite specific and if the judge said that the outlet was not the issue then you could have asked for the ticket to be dismissed.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled
by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the
muffler has been widened.
I have never actually been tried in a court of law so I don't know, can you appeal the conviction of a traffic fine?
If so, you just need the transcript of your case and appeal it to a higher court based on the judge's words and the letter of the law as was previously mentioned. :bthumbup: |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
I have never actually been tried in a court of law so I don't know, can you appeal the conviction of a traffic fine?
If so, you just need the transcript of your case and appeal it to a higher court based on the judge's words and the letter of the law as was previously mentioned. :bthumbup:
I'm not sure if you can appeal or not (considering how low the fine is). :dunno: |
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| jerthehair |
sorry i have not posted earlier, gebus i work a lot.
anyway i looked into posting the transcript for the case and was hit by something that would not have occured to me.
the privacy agreement prevents me by law from posting remarks, transcripts or any type of legal documentation unless i have permission requested and permission granted from all partys(lawyers,court transcriber,judge,rcmp.....everyone that was there)
involved. shitty deal is i would probably risk it if not for the possible fines of personal infringement of the act.
holy cow what a bunch of bull shit.
i was told that its like taping a conversation and not telling the other person about it and then posting it in the news without letting them know.:mad: |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
| is there a case # or doket(sp?) number... that by it'self hopefully would be enough. |
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| ChromeDragon |
| All we would need is the docket # to state it as a precedent. |
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| jerthehair |
Docket #
07586832 |
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| Bob_DodgeSX |
quote:
Originally posted by jerthehair
sorry i have not posted earlier, gebus i work a lot.
anyway i looked into posting the transcript for the case and was hit by something that would not have occured to me.
the privacy agreement prevents me by law from posting remarks, transcripts or any type of legal documentation unless i have permission requested and permission granted from all partys(lawyers,court transcriber,judge,rcmp.....everyone that was there)
involved. shitty deal is i would probably risk it if not for the possible fines of personal infringement of the act.
holy cow what a bunch of bull shit.
Just a few points for you to consider. What "they" told you would be ripped to shreds by a good lawyer.
The right of the public to open courts
is an important constitutional rule, that the right of an individual to
privacy is a fundamental value, and that the right to open courts
generally outweighs the right to privacy.
The Supreme Court of Canada has consistently held that, in a contest where the right of the public to transparency in the administration of justice conflicts with the right of the individual to privacy, generally the right of the public prevails. What follows are
some examples of the analysis involving those two values in a statutory or regulatory framework or in a common law context.
Basically the only time a request for a court docket would be turned down would be if the release of such a docket would jeopardize your fundamental freedoms as laid down in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
And as I don’t think exhaust size would cause anyone to hurt you I don’t think that is the case.
My main question would be as you’re the only private individual in this case. What do the Lawyer, Court Clerk, RCMP and Judge who are all public employees want to hide?
I am not a Lawyer I just like my rights. |
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| HEWSINATOR |
| Is this all for not though as the regulation is in respect to legislative law, not common law, and thus there is no such thing as precedent? |
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| jkilloran |
| I've got a court date for the exact same thing on July 20th. I'll let you guys know how it goes. |
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| Grandmaster |
| I got stopped for speeding and the cop mentioned the exhaust, but he let me go with only the speeding ticket as the exhaust was not physically widened, just 3" all the way. They can fine you under "creating a disturbance" due to the noise. If they want to screw you over, they can |
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| Kyle2K |
quote:
Originally posted by Grandmaster
They can fine you under "creating a disturbance" due to the noise. If they want to screw you over, they can
widening has nothing to do with noise, they cant fine u if its not a noisy exhaust system just because its big. |
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| night_font |
| i just got a 4" tip/exhaust system for my car and well so far i havent seen any police to see the size of it and pull me over...so what do i do if a cop pulls me over and only brings up the exhaust, and gives me a ticket for it being to big????should i say that there is no such law for this occassion???or what ...thanks |
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| Neo-Blue99GASE |
quote:
i just got a 4" tip/exhaust system for my car and well so far i havent seen any police to see the size of it and pull me over...so what do i do if a cop pulls me over and only brings up the exhaust, and gives me a ticket for it being to big????should i say that there is no such law for this occassion???or what ...thanks
Ok, let me tell you this, if you decide to tell a cop he /she doesnt know what they are doing, that is a quick ticket to hell. Just accept it and then go setup your court date, DO NOT SAY WHAT YOU JUST SAID.! Ok from my experience in the courtroom, I can tell you a few things.
1) Dress neatly - this does not mean pull out your best suit, nor does it mean you should should dress up as a poser or something, wear a nice set of khakis and something like a golf shirt or something else youd wear to church if you do.
2) Show up on time and be patient. -chances are, ther are going to be alot of peopld in the courtroom that day, so clear your schedule and dont have to rush off someplace
3) Be prepared. - That means anything you can use to help defend your cause, bring it. For me, I spent about an hour taking measurements and photo's of my stop sign ticket and was going to prove there was much in doubt of my particular fine. Like I said, bring everything you can and put it in something like a folder. A judge will see that you are presenting this case yourself and that you have done some research into this. Why do you htink this guy won his case? Because he was prepared and did his homework to fight and win his ticket. Like me, he got off his ticket with just a little time and effort put into it. For me, it just so happened the officer who gave me the ticket, decided he couldnt make the case and he set it up for a new day. I said that wasnt very fair and the judge obviously understood my resoning and gave me a huge break on my ticket. So even if all else fails, the judge will see what you have done and will usually give you some good leway. I had a stop sign ticket and all I had to do was pay the 287$ fine and I got the demerits removed as well as, big point here, the removal of the actual ticket from my record. A big bonus considering what insurance prices used to be. |
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| 00redLUDE |
quote:
Originally posted by Neo-Blue99GASE
I had a stop sign ticket and all I had to do was pay the $287 fine and I got the demerits removed as well as, big point here, the removal of the actual ticket from my record. A big bonus considering what insurance prices used to be.
I can't believe you did all this work and all you got was the demerit and ticket removed from your record. Usu. if you just show up to court you can get the demerit and ticket removed from your record without any of your work. If the police officer did not show up you should have your ticket completely thrown out, even if he did reschedule, since you showed up and everything. I'm not flaming you or anything, just that you did so much work that it would have been nice if you got it completely thrown out, even though there is no guaranty about that even with all your work. Anyways, still better than nothing. Good work. :bthumbup: |
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| beatshack |
since we're on the topic of traffic legalities, I have a question:
on my 87 merk, i have 2 BRAKE light bulbs in each tail light (4 total).
on the right, both brake bulbs light up, but on the left, only 1 does.. can I get a ticket for this? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
technically.. probably.
take teh second bulb outta the other one heh so you have 1 each side.
Do you have seperate signal bulbs? |
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| BACA |
quote:
Originally posted by beatshack
since we're on the topic of traffic legalities, I have a question:
on my 87 merk, i have 2 BRAKE light bulbs in each tail light (4 total).
on the right, both brake bulbs light up, but on the left, only 1 does.. can I get a ticket for this?
I know that truck drivers can get a ticket for every burned out light . ie if there is 50 clearance lights on the truck they all have to be in working order. Dosen't matter if you put them on yourself or factory. My guess is yes you technically could get a ticket i a cop wanted to give you one. |
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| Markgase2000 |
| True that ^^^^ and its unfortunate that most folks find out the hard way since they cannot test stop lights on there own. In my GA if one bulb burns out it sets off my ABS light and service vehicle soon light and thats a good indicator that a bulb is burnt out but I dont know about how other cars indicate this. |
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| klo |
The docket number is incorrect.
It is missing two letters.
Called Grand Prairie Court House and they could find this docket number.
Also need Defendents name and date of birth.
Must request an "Opens Records Request". |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by beatshack
since we're on the topic of traffic legalities, I have a question:
on my 87 merk, i have 2 BRAKE light bulbs in each tail light (4 total).
on the right, both brake bulbs light up, but on the left, only 1 does.. can I get a ticket for this?
Tail lamps
13(1) A self‑propelled implement of husbandry, a trailer, the last vehicle of a train of vehicles and a motor vehicle, other than a motor cycle or moped, must have at least 2 tail lamps mounted at the rear
According to that if you have say 2 bulbs on each side that do the same your fine as long as you still have 1 bulb on each side that function (tail/brake/signal)
Like my car, I have 3 bulbs per side that each do all 3 functions, so according to the equipment regs I could run with 66% of my rear bulbs burnt out and still be legal as long as:
(3) The tail lamps must be as widely spaced laterally as practicable.
(4) A tail lamp must be capable of emitting a red light that is visible from at least 150 metres to the rear.
(5) The centre of a tail lamp must not be less than 380 millimetres or more than 2 metres above ground level when the vehicle is not loaded.
(6) A tail lamp must turn on and stay lit when the head lamps or auxiliary driving lamps are lit. |
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