| oldraven |
For the TC, at any rate. Drop in K&N's don't count. I'm getting an Gillis adjustable boost valve right away, so I can turn it up a bit this summer, and have some fun. My only choice now is,
Should I get the dual stage boost valve kit, (which switches between stock boost (looks to be about 10-13psi) and the 18psi on the valve, by a toggle on the dash), or get just the valve and replace the stock air box (the first bottleneck in the system, and a big one) with a 6" K&N cone? One will give me the option of better fuel milage when I need it, and the other will just give me more power, at all times.
Stock, the car has dual stage boost, by switching to Premium fuel. It turns up boost to 15 in 1st and 2nd, advances timing, and increases fuel delivery. I really like this option, and I can feel the difference in the seat of my pants when I throw the switch. But I can't help but feel the extra 8-10hp from the cone would make me forget about stock settings for now.
1983-1988 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and Mercury
Cougar (2.3L Turbocharged motors only) Boostvalve.
Natural Brass finish is all that is available at this time,
however gold-plated and plated "chrome" versions will
be available soon.
~8-21 psi kit, complete - $48.00, plus shipping
17-30 psi kit, complete - $48.00, plus shipping
Want to have some fun? Or save some gas? Or stay
emissions inspection compliant? Get the 2 Stage
Boostvalve kit! Keep you factory BCS intact and install
this with the Gillis valve hidden and switch between the
2 settings at your own will! (Switch not included) Stay
Inspection compliant, keep the boost low for gas
savings, and when that 5.0 Stang or fart-canned Honda
pulls up next to you switch to your Boostvalve in-car
and blow their doors off!
$89.00 Complete kit, plus shipping
Guys I know online say around $50 US for the cone. |
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| 2000z |
| Dual setting switch for sure. Get the Cone filter too, About $60-$90 sounds right depending on size of the filter and where you get it. |
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| oldraven |
It's looking like $120 with shipping for the dual stage kit.
And I'm looking for a 6" cone. K&N part # RE-0930. Is there a local website where I could check the price on the filter? |
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| snugs |
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehe..... hehehehehehehehehe....
if the extra boost from the dual stage one won't hurt your engine, then.... hehehehehehehehehehe....
:bthumbup: :bthumbup: :bthumbup: :bthumbup: |
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| oldraven |
:asshole:
These 2.3's are bulletproof. As long as I don't go any higher than 18psi I'll be fine. 20psi on an IHI creates too much heat, and I'll burn through a piston. (That's why the T3 is the obvious next upgrade). My only worry will be a head gasket. I don't know when one was done last on this thing, or ever. I imagine 18psi will find any weak spots.
I don't know if the two stage is of much use. One of the guys on NATO (North American Turbocoupe Organization) had a good point. 'I have a dual stage system. It's found in my right foot and the left side of my brain.' But I don't think I have enough will power to keep my foot out of it if I had boost cranked all the time.
*edit*
Just got hooked up with the cone filter for under $50, so that decision has been made. :bthumbup:
:beer:
slainte mhath (good health) Pro Drag |
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| twinturbo |
I would get the dual stage kit. You will love the difference it makes on your milliage when you are just putting around town.
When your head gasket goes(notice i said when, not if) Try and find a metal replacement.
If heat is your enemy at high boost, then a differnt turbo won't really solve the issue. You need a better intercooler, or H2O or NO2 injection to cool your air. And maybe some work on the engines cooling system too.(Aluminum Rad, Oil cooler, etc.)
Just my opinion, good luck and have fun! |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
I imagine 18psi will find any weak spots.
Thats what I was thinking. Just don't complain if something blows up. :D |
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| oldraven |
Yeah, I'm going to get the two stage kit, but it'll have to wait. I only et $100 every two weeks to spend on myself, so I'll wait a few weeks and get the whole deal. :)
The reason I said the IHI makes too much heat, is in this particular application, the smaller turbo on '87-88's simply heats the air more than the older T3's, but they're intercooled, so it's countered, and fine at stock boost. (holy run on sentence) I don't know if this is a universal issue, but I get my info from seasoned pros who have been building and racing TC's for decades (when it comes to Turbo 2.3's the NATO guys know their shit). If they say not to boost past 18 on the stock turbo, I'm not going to.
A front mount intercooler would probably take care of it, but by that time, I'll want the higher capacity T3 anyway. I'm getting tired of having to shift at 4500 because the 2.3 can't blow through the IHI turbine enough. |
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| twinturbo |
With that high of boost, you should think about trying some H2O injection. I have never tried it, but i have heard good things about it. It would save you from the threat of detonation, cool your air charge more, and maybe increase your reliability. I don't care what kind of engine your running, 18PSI is alot of boost.
Anyway, look into the H2O injection, they are cheap! |
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| TrevorK |
| In a RWD with any sort of power the dual stage will actually let you launch the car better too..... |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Thats what I was thinking. Just don't complain if something blows up. :D
It's a Ford. Things blowing up is inevitable. I just want to at least be having fun when it does. :D |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
It's a Ford. Things blowing up is inevitable. I just want to at least be having fun when it does. :D
too true :beer: |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by twinturbo
I would get the dual stage kit. You will love the difference it makes on your milliage when you are just putting around town.
When your head gasket goes(notice i said when, not if) Try and find a metal replacement.
If heat is your enemy at high boost, then a differnt turbo won't really solve the issue. You need a better intercooler, or H2O or NO2 injection to cool your air. And maybe some work on the engines cooling system too.(Aluminum Rad, Oil cooler, etc.)
Just my opinion, good luck and have fun!
He is talking about the temperature of the air charge. To reduce the temperature of the aircharge at a certain # of boost, you need to get a more efficient turbo, more efficient usually means larger. A better intercooler will also lower intake temps, as well as the water/alcohol injection. |
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| twinturbo |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
A better intercooler will also lower intake temps, as well as the water/alcohol injection.
H2O = WATER
NO2 = Nitrogen DiOxide
I never said alcohol injection. I have never heard of alchohol being used on anything but track only cars!!
Yeah, I understand that you want a more efficient turbo, so it produces less heat, but obviously with the hot air that it is producing, there is still a major risk of detonation isn't there? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by twinturbo
H2O = WATER
NO2 = Nitrogen DiOxide
I never said alcohol injection. I have never heard of alchohol being used on anything but track only cars!!
Yeah, I understand that you want a more efficient turbo, so it produces less heat, but obviously with the hot air that it is producing, there is still a major risk of detonation isn't there?
I know H2O is water.;)
Methanol Injection produces even better gains than H20, but as with everything else, it is all in the tuning.
A more efficient turbo for the application will produce lower compressor outlet temps @ a # of boost while also reducing backpressure to the engine. |
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| JustinL |
Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
Tuning Tuning Tuning. Make sure your timing and a/f ratios are spot on. I'm not sure how the TC meters air, but if you go over the flow limit of the meter, you will be relying purely on estimates to fuel the cylinders.
Don't rely on water or metanol injection as a bandaid for poor tuning. Take it slow and do it right.
Justin |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Don't rely on water or metanol injection as a bandaid for poor tuning. Take it slow and do it right.
Justin
I used to think water/methanol injection was a bandaid for poor tuning. I have been enlightened.
If you don't want to run leaded race gas, water/alcohol injection is a very good alternative for supreme power production on our 91 octane limited pump gas. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
Tuning Tuning Tuning. Make sure your timing and a/f ratios are spot on. I'm not sure how the TC meters air, but if you go over the flow limit of the meter, you will be relying purely on estimates to fuel the cylinders.
Don't rely on water or metanol injection as a bandaid for poor tuning. Take it slow and do it right.
Justin
This is why, unlike most TC tuners, I'll be leaving the knock sensor pluged in. If things get too hot, it'll be a good granny and pull boost/timing. I'm not going to be running that much higher than stock, so until I finish all off the mods on this list, I should be safe. The T3 swap will happen a couple of years down the road, allong with a 255hp Walbro fuel pump and the Fuel Pressure Regulator.
http://www.turbotbird.com/techinfo/Mods/Mods01.htm
Oh, and the TC's metre air through a VAM, which is what the cone will strap directly onto. |
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| JustinL |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
I used to think water/methanol injection was a bandaid for poor tuning. I have been enlightened.
If you don't want to run leaded race gas, water/alcohol injection is a very good alternative for supreme power production on our 91 octane limited pump gas.
Heheh, Yeah I agree with you. I may have phrased my sentence poorly. I'm trying to get at the fact that some people won't tune properly and then slap on some water injection so it doesn't knock. And absolutely, water/ethanol injection can be fantastic in upping the effective octane. Like you said: it's all in the tuning. |
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