| Waxing/washing car... proper way? - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Kiddo |
many many questions :)
When someone details a car they're just basically waxing it and polishing it after washing and cleaning it?
How do you wax properly? Do those machines do decent work or is it better by hand?
I see many brands like Meguires and other waxs have several stages of cleaners? I read on one of the meguires that the first stage is enough but the next two stages just make it shine more. True or false?
What kind of wax do you use? Terry cloths? whats that lol ^-^ I'm a knob so help me out please
ohh btw What kind of car soap do you use to clean the body... I always do it at the car washing bays but my car is always still dirty after soaping it down and spraying several times (used 7 bucks last time I could wipe a white cloth over the car and it'd be dirty) so I'm thinking about hand washing it at home now... Is it really critical that I do it in the shade? like most of the soaps suggest?
ohhh forgot about buffing? how do you do it? what do you use? or will the wax stuff take out the minor scratches? |
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| REFLUX |
I think MarkGASE2000 will have an excellent answer for you.
Hope he chimes in :) |
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| Nite_Rydah |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
I think MarkGASE2000 will have an excellent answer for you.
Hope he chimes in :)
yea he knows his shit when it comes to detailing that's fo sho |
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| TrevorK |
Since Mark does this for a living, he'll be the best answer, but here's my 2 cents.
quote:
Originally posted by Kiddo
many many questions :)
When someone details a car they're just basically waxing it and polishing it after washing and cleaning it?
The car has to be spotless before waxing/polishing. So yes, it should be done after washing with a soap that doesn't leave a film behind (Like the popular Mr Clean Auto Dry).
Most likely, while polishing you'll use something to help strip off the old finish, such as a clay bar if your paint is really, really bad.
quote:
How do you wax properly? Do those machines do decent work or is it better by hand?
In the hands of someone who has never waxed before, the machine can do more harm than doing in manually.
That being said - if you're just starting out, do it by hand until you understand what's going on...
quote:
I see many brands like Meguires and other waxs have several stages of cleaners? I read on one of the meguires that the first stage is enough but the next two stages just make it shine more. True or false?
Different products do different things.
For the most part, what you use will depend on how bad your paint is.
Some cars just need some polish, then some wax. Others will need clay bar, polish, then wax.
But for your basics, you should be polishing first, then waxing. I'd recommend, for a beginner, the Meguir's professional line (Found at partsource in the TAN bottles). Use the swirl free polish, combined with the Hi-Tech Yellow wax. Depending on your finish you may need something more abrasive than the SFP.
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What kind of wax do you use? Terry cloths? whats that lol ^-^ I'm a knob so help me out please
I've used many different waxes/polishes/etc...
My favorite, easy to find product for recommending to people is the Meguir's professional lineup (TAN bottles). But there are a tonne of great products out there you can use.
As for cloths - I only use Microfibre. Microfibre is lint free, and you can find them with some nap to them, so that you aren't dragging shit all over your paint.
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ohh btw What kind of car soap do you use to clean the body... I always do it at the car washing bays but my car is always still dirty after soaping it down and spraying several times (used 7 bucks last time I could wipe a white cloth over the car and it'd be dirty) so I'm thinking about hand washing it at home now... Is it really critical that I do it in the shade? like most of the soaps suggest?
If you don't wash in the shade and aren't quick enough, you run the risk of the soap drying. As well, if you do it in sunlight, you'll get water marks (Unless you take your time, and use a proper washing technique).
For beginners, Mr Clean Autodry is great. It'll leave a spot free shine, even when done in sunlight.
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ohhh forgot about buffing? how do you do it? what do you use? or will the wax stuff take out the minor scratches?
Wax itself doesn't take out scratches - it's role is to protect the paint, and to make the shine created by the other products you use, last. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Kiddo
many many questions :)
Yes, too many to answer all at once, especially when they are all mixed up and out of sequence. :p
quote:
When someone details a car they're just basically waxing it and polishing it after washing and cleaning it?
The term "detailing" can mean whatever you want it to mean. To some a proper wash, including rims, tires, glass, trim, wheel wells, and exhaust tips is a "detail". Sometimes it includes some polishing and waxing. Sometimes it includes the interior too. All of those activities are the act of "detailing".
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How do you wax properly? Do those machines do decent work or is it better by hand?
A machine is not required for applying a "wax". Most can be applied by hand. But depending on the type of product you're using, some are very nice to apply using a dual-action or random orbital polisher (note I didn't say "rotary" buffer). However, you're mostly just saving a bit of time that way and helping to get a more even coat. Liquid waxes are easy to apply with a polisher, but most modern liquid and paste waxes are very easy to use by hand.
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I see many brands like Meguires and other waxs have several stages of cleaners? I read on one of the meguires that the first stage is enough but the next two stages just make it shine more. True or false?
That is false. In most multi-step processes (like Mothers and Meguiar's for example), the first step is typically a "paint cleaner" and can't be used by itself. Its not intended to provide any protection, it'll just clean contaminants from your paint. What you might be confusing a "first step" with is a "cleaner wax" type product which has a bit of everything in it (paint cleaning, polishing, and wax protection).
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What kind of wax do you use? Terry cloths? whats that lol ^-^ I'm a knob so help me out please
What?!? :blink: Terry cloth is not a type of wax. :lol: Terry cloth is just a type of towel. Your typical bath towel at home is a type of terry cloth. However, avoid the rolls of cheap "terry cloths" you see in most retail stores... they are not good quality cotton, and are often not even true 100% cotton as advertised on the label, and will scratch or swirl your paint.
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ohh btw What kind of car soap do you use to clean the body...
Any of the specific car wash soaps are decent enough. Do not use dish soap to wash your car. Some of the better car wash soaps available locally are Meguiar's Gold Class shampoo and NXT Tech Wash (but they can be hard to find). Eagle One's soap is supposed to be pretty good too but I haven't tried it myself. I've used Mother's California Gold soap which is ok... Turtle Wax Zip Wax car wash soap was my least favorite of any I've tried. But they're all ok and do the job at the end of the day.
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I always do it at the car washing bays but my car is always still dirty after soaping it down and spraying several times (used 7 bucks last time I could wipe a white cloth over the car and it'd be dirty)
That's right... and the reason is those car washes cannot get the fine film off your paint. And if you attempt to dry your paint after just using the pressure washer, you'll just swirl the hell out of your paint because your drying towel will just push that film of dirt around your car. The only way to properly clean your body panels enough to make them clean enough (to safely dry with a towel) is to... bucket wash with a good quality wash mitt.
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so I'm thinking about hand washing it at home now... Is it really critical that I do it in the shade? like most of the soaps suggest?
Now you're on the right track. Bucket washing at home on your driveway with a hose and a good quality mitt is the best way. Yes it is always best to wash in the shade or when the sun is low in the sky. If you wash in the blazing sun your paint will heat up and the water on your paint will evaporate before you can finish washing and drying the rest of your car and water spots can form. With our hard water, and some components of the soaps, residue around the edges of water spots can actually etch your paint if left there too long. Removing water spots after the fact can be a chore.
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ohhh forgot about buffing? how do you do it? what do you use? [/B]
The subject of buffing/polishing is huge and cannot be answered easily in a simple thread like this. But before you get into a complex topic like that you should focus on your car washing technique to help reduce further creation of swirls and scratches and thus reduce the need to "buff" or polish your paint in the future.
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or will the wax stuff take out the minor scratches? [/B]
Waxes generally will not remove minor scratches, however some products contain fillers that will help reduce the appearance or even hide some minor scratches and swirls. Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax is one such product that does a decent job of hiding swirls. As well you can apply a glaze or polish under a wax to help further reduce these. The "step 2" in the multi step processes you mentioned earlier often consist of glazes that perform this function.
But the only true way to remove swirls and scratches is to use product designed for that function. There are various degrees of agressiveness both in the products and in the pads you use with them. And the tools. The Rotary Buffer is the ultimate method, but has the lowest safety margin and the biggest learning curve. Random Orbital and Dual-Action polishers are easier and safer to use, but won't get quite the same results as a Rotary. And some degree of paint correction is possible by hand, but that takes a strong back, lots of elbow grease and patience, etc.
Hope that helps a bit. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
you'll use something to help strip off the old finish, such as a clay bar if your paint is really, really bad.
Actually a clay bar's function is to remove embedded contaminents from the paint such as bug guts, tar, paint overspray, rail dust, sap, brake dust, etc. A clay bar will not "strip off the old finish", such as waxes, oils and silicones. That is the function of paint cleaners, and substances like isopropyl alcohol. (Some people even use dish soap for that function, but its generally frowned upon).
Just thought I'd point out the distinction. ;) |
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| 95IntegraRS |
| Meguiars Paint Cleaner works excellent before starting on a polish/wax. |
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| s2oooR |
just to add....
when waxing and polishing by hand... use up and down movements when applying polish/wax and up and down movements when removing it. This'll prevent you from putting additional swirls should your towel be "contaminated."
So its vertical movements for the sides and "with" the flow of air that passes your car for all other areas (i.e the hood and trunk).
I prefer Zaino to McGuires... alittle more pricey, I think, but worth it :bthumbup: |
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| Markgase2000 |
Hey guys sorry I didnt respond to this quicker I been busy for a change.
I know a whole whack of polishing methods and from what Ive read here you guys have some good methods.
First step in any polish method.
Clean top to bottom in and out. Clean the engine bay , door jams , trunk jams , wheel wells and grills with a prespray cleaner and rinse off with water. The cleaner the car is the better results you get in polishing. Do not be afraid to hand wash the car you are about to polish it and you need the paint as clean as it can be. When all the crevaces are clean and the paint is dried off you may start deeper paint cleaning.
Adhesion promoters can help here big time. 3m has a decent promoter and anything mothers or meguires is user friendly and guaranteed effective wether its wax or adhesion promoters. Rinse off the promoter after it is pretty much dry with cold water. Now the paint would be ready for clay bar work. Reason I clay last is so I am not rubbing old decomposing wax into the finish this is detremental and will shorten the longevity of your work. Use a car soap mixture as a lube for the clay and do not ever use polymer based or wax based soap this is also detremental and will affect the adhesion of the new wax/compounds/conditioners/glazes/sealants. After you clay rewash the exterior and dry as dry as it can be.
Fact * Carnuba is a organic based using penut oils to evenly darken the natural finish and adds a fair lasting deep shine. It decomposes very quickly and requires reapplications to maintain the finish. Simply reaplications can get layered to the point where the wax has no effect on the paint and requires the wax to be fully removed.
Fact * Synthetic compounds are more durable and can create the best effects. Synthetics last a long time without reapplications. Synthetics not only repair and shine up the finish they also create chemical reactions and rejuvinate the paint. If you condition and seal after synthetic paint repairs it can last years without any reaplication. The secret is using the same product line from start to finish.
Polishing by hand with the type of cleaning I had previously described can actually do a better quallity job than machine polishing. The paint is exposed and acts like a sponge. Power polishing steps can be dramatically reduced with extremely clean paint. It is unesessary to polish every step with a power polisher over the entire finish. You only need to mildly work on repairs then buff and blend the finish together. It takes practice.
I suggest you read over my list of info and ask questions. Otherwise I will end up writing a book. PM me if you want text on my methods step by step the best way you can.
Just remeber one thing thats hella important , do not clay over wax big no no it wont seal evenly and can be tough to remove with a promoter. Promote rinse then clay. |
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| ae1969 |
Good info Mark. I actually find your posts informative and refreshing on this forum.
If you could start another post....... I would appreciate another sermon on .....
1. New paint - How to maintain (frequency)
2. How to prepare paint to get that show car shine (removing paint imperfections etc)
:bthumbup: (From a previous tempo/topaz owner. :D ) |
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| Markgase2000 |
LMAO 1969! Thanks alot for the kind words.
When I first joined I was interested in starting a Detailing Sub Forum in here. Unfortunately there isnt enough interest from the administrator. This confuses me cus my skills prolly the most usefull and are the most important part of show cars. I want to help either with posts or in person at meets.
Im going to put some major thought into making a professional polish Q/A thread. I will reveal some of my secret polishing methods. Unfortunately some of this info (80%) will be useless to most of you and most likely over your head. Thats why Im taking my polisher on the road with me.
Give me a day or two to set up some good info here and we can get started on makin them machines look GLEAM.
Mark |
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| VRado6 |
Using the proper cloths and making sure everything you are using is clean is very important. As mentioned before, microfiber cloths do a nice job when you are waxing as they dont leave lint and they won't leave swirls in the paint. Also, remember when you are waxing your car to always wax it in the shade. Waxing it in the sun makes the wax very difficult to buff off and often leads to more swirl marks due to the extra force needed to buff. Below is my car after a wash and a wax with Meguiars NXT tech wax. So far this is one of the better waxes I've used. It spreads nicely and evenly and comes off very easy with a microfiber cloth.
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| colossus |
Markgase2000 have I got a question for you!
I have a stickon plastic 'wood' overlay on my dash. It looked beautiful... until the day I rubbed armour-all on it and it dulled the clear plastic and scratched up some parts. Anyway to bring back the clear plastic shine? What if i use a hand orbital buffer? Any suggestions?:confused: |
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| Markgase2000 |
| Try this , plexus plastic polish from crappy tire. its about $10 bucks a can but stupid easy to use and also works great on headlights. Nice thing about this product is over spray on the paint wont hurt it at all. Simple instructions off the top of my head. Spray it on let it sit for 30-60 seconds then smear it around then rub it off hard oh yeah and dont use paper towel it will make it look faded and severely scratched. The instructions are on the can |
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| LeadSled |
Thanks for the info Mark, seems like there seems to be a lot of misinformation on the web about detailing. Its nice to have a few pros in here to help us out :cool:
Personally, I think Zaino is hands down the best finish I've ever seen. If you try it you'll never use anything else again.I wish I woulda known about Pro Drag's sale on it in February :mad: |
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| Markgase2000 |
| I use products that are not available in any stores. But from what I hear Zaino is excellent stuff. Can it last 4-10 years? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Markgase2000
Can it last 4-10 years?
No waxes or sealants will last that long. Any claims otherwise is unsubstantiated crap. Those dealership offered "protection packages" are one of the biggest scams out there.
Zaino is supposed to be good for ~ 6-9 months on a properly cared for vehicle. Klasse is somewhere close to that also.
Most carnauba-based waxes are done after 2 months or so. |
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| LeadSled |
I doubt it can last that long Mark, I've read its meant to be near the quality of the professional synthetics you'd be using, but be easy to use for us non prodessionals.
I can say that it looks absolutely amazing for an amateur job. |
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| Jord@n |
Stick this thread please. I found it very helpful and would love to have it as a reference in the future!
PS: Way to know your shit Mark! |
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| colossus |
quote:
Originally posted by Markgase2000
Try this , plexus plastic polish from crappy tire. its about $10 bucks a can but stupid easy to use and also works great on headlights. Nice thing about this product is over spray on the paint wont hurt it at all. Simple instructions off the top of my head. Spray it on let it sit for 30-60 seconds then smear it around then rub it off hard oh yeah and dont use paper towel it will make it look faded and severely scratched. The instructions are on the can
Will it be ok for use on soft clear plastic such as a plastic dash overlay?
P.S. thanks for the advice. Stick around you've got some useful skills! |
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| Markgase2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by colossus
Will it be ok for use on soft clear plastic such as a plastic dash overlay?
P.S. thanks for the advice. Stick around you've got some useful skills!
Yes plexus works great on all kinds of clear plastic. It was mainly used by aeronotics to clean the plexi glass on airplanes. I messed around with it quite abit and found it worked great on those stick on trims. Make sure you use a very fine cloth , micro fiber or soft cotton buffing cloth. Paper towel is to coarse. It works great on the clear plastic cover on the instrument cluster too. |
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| Markgase2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
No waxes or sealants will last that long. Any claims otherwise is unsubstantiated crap. Those dealership offered "protection packages" are one of the biggest scams out there.
Zaino is supposed to be good for ~ 6-9 months on a properly cared for vehicle. Klasse is somewhere close to that also.
Most carnauba-based waxes are done after 2 months or so.
Im not surprised it is hard to believe. The paint sealant I use has awesome UV inhibitors that last at least 10 years! It will last a long time even if you clean your car agressively. Im not saying the clear coat never scratches either. Yes in time the cosmetic features do wear down. It took over 2 years for my finish to wear down on my Grand Am but the sealant is still doing its job. I have customers who lease and trade some from 4-6 years ago and they look almost as good as the day they left my shop and they never had a reapplication or nothing. Still I dont blame you for not believing me. |
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| Markgase2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by LeadSled
I doubt it can last that long Mark, I've read its meant to be near the quality of the professional synthetics you'd be using, but be easy to use for us non prodessionals.
I can say that it looks absolutely amazing for an amateur job.
You guys keep telling me how great Zaino is. I tell you what Im gonna do. I will buy some zaino and play with it then Ill give you my honest opinion. Word of mouth makes me interested. The products I have used , Auto Magic compound lines , Luster Glaze product lines , Pro Tec seal , Production , Toyota , Ford , 3M , Mothers , Meguires and Turtle wax. I tried so many others off the top of my head I cant think of them. I can make all of these products last longer than they say they can by simply putting it on correctly. Makes all the difference in the world. Also stripping wax/compound or sealant from paint isnt as easy done as using dish detergent to wash your car. It takes alot more than that to clean the paint before a really good application. I use promoters and body solvents not user friendly stuff.
I say go the mild route and practice untill you master it then take the next step if you feel confortable with it. I know so many "pro's" that polish for like 16 years and still cant get it right. Mothers , Meguires and after I try it pehaps Zaino will be what I suggest people try first for learning purposes. These products are tough to botch the job up with and have gauranteed results.
Some one give me a sample of Zaino please.
Mark |
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| LeadSled |
I'd give you some to try but I used it all up on my last truck :(
I believe Pro Drag carries it though, I was going to get the toal system that Zaino makes. I just tried a few of their products last time. |
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