| jubei |
| What will give me the most bang for my buck for performance. I'm thinking, CAI, headers, exhaust, VAFC. What else? |
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| Xx D-MAN xX |
quote:
Originally posted by jubei
What will give me the most bang for my buck for performance. I'm thinking, CAI, headers, exhaust, VAFC. What else?
It depends on what your final goals are for your car. Do you plan to race it, either drag or road racing, or do you just want some extra power for the street?
Do you have any intensions of going FI?
Are you on a budget?
If you just want some extra power on the street, you don't plan on going FI anytime soon and you are on a budget, then I would recommend the basic bolt-on package which is intake, header, cat, exhaust, pulleys, and vafc.
It would also suggest upgrading suspension components as struts/springs or coilovers, sway bars, and strut tie bars. Of coruse, you can't leave out brake pads & lines.
In the end, it's all up to you on where you want to see you car down the road and how much money you are willing to dump into the car. Just an FYI, it will take lots and lots of money to make a prelude a fast car... |
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| underdog 23 |
| prelude are more of a cruiser with a little bit of umph... but with double wishbone on all four wheels,i would assume its no slouch on a track considering im not a racer. right? prelude was never meant for drag race anyway. |
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| doughboy |
haha, the first mod i PLANNED to do was altezza's. remember that guys?
after waking up and smelling the roses, suspension will be my first mod.
the fun parts of driving:
1) acceleration (speed)
2) cornering
you'll get more hp with your I/H/E, I say upgrade your suspension too. you won't go anywhere unless your tires are on the pavement ;) |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| thats peoples first mistake is thinking the bolt ons gives you the best gain.. youll find with a wicked suspension set up youll be faster, with better weight transfer you will do better at the track then you will with a CAI and ebay exhaust |
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| Shady_Pro |
| ya or just do intake exaust header and get your head flowed...head work seems to be underrated in the import community even though its somthing that been working for the last 50 years...u can put on the biggest exaust and biggers intake, or header and still only get so much flow...that and a good set of cams or in my case cam |
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| jubei |
| Wow, I thanks for all the feedback. My immediate budget is about 3k (for perfomance mods) My goal for that money is to increase hp/accel as much as possible. I think base hp for 99 prelude is 195? Is it unrealistic to try for 230 with my budget? Also I have a mechanic that will install mods for me so this is not included in the above stated budget. Thanks in advance for feedback. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| very unrealistic...for 3 grand... unless you do a chop turbo but then ur gunna kill ur car, or if you slap some nos in there... but otherwise jesus couldnt even help you with a 3k budget to gain 40 hp. |
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| mike3 |
| Actually im pretty sure Jesus could rig something up. |
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| jubei |
| LMFAO, well what kind of hp gains would I get from intake/hearders/exhaust? I thought these would give me 15-20?? |
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| mike3 |
| It depends on everything, like the prducts and such. realisticly maybe 10 - 15 give or take a few, with a cold air, header and full exhaust. |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by jubei
LMFAO, well what kind of hp gains would I get from intake/hearders/exhaust? I thought these would give me 15-20??
depending on what you get.....if you get good stuff, 15-20whp at least.... |
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| jubei |
| 1_bar, what do u recommend and where is the best place to get the parts, i have a mechanic to install for free. Also for hp/ accel, what is the next thing u'd get? |
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| mike3 |
| I don't know about 15-20 whp, but who knows. I think its always better to underesitmate your hp. |
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| jubei |
| k, well what brands should I go for and where is the best price? I heard AEM CAI is good, and DC headers, not sure about a exhaust. Looking for best bang for buck. |
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| luder |
DC headers actually loose you hp over the stockers........
I think the mugen ones netted 3 or so hp.....
Headers won't get you a lot of power out of the h22a engine.
Try doing type s cams from the jdm h22a, and maybe hondata tuning. Hi flow cat, and get an exhaust shop to do exhuast to maybe a 5zigen muffler if you're on a tight budget.
Injen CAI's net the most hp out of all the CAI's. But short ram intakes will give the most hp, if you don't have full exhaust and headers. At least thats what james was telling me from dyno results.
My vote would be to do Injen CAI, Hiflow cat, Type s cams (talk to speedtech in calgary about a used jdm parts shipment) Hondata tuning, then underdrive pulleys.
But remember, the quickest and cheapest way to make your car faster is to make it lighter. Rip out all of the interior, some lighter wheels, better rubber will be just as fast if not faster than modding the engine.
In all honesty, 200 whp is a lofty goal to hit on 3000 dollars. |
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| Xx D-MAN xX |
Headwork is a good idea if you decide to rebuild your head but if it's done wrong, you will lose power.
As for basic bolt-ons, I would guess 10-15whp but if you include a way to fine tune (i.e. VAFC), you will be able to get more out of the parts you have installed. Just an FYI, I dyno'd tuned my stock prelude and I gained 8whp and 12ftlbs.
As for doing cams, cam gears, and complete valvetrain upgrades (i.e. valves, springs, retainers, etc.), it is a costly process but the gains will be noticeable. Not in your $3K budget that's for sure...
For Intake, I would suggest type-s w/ K&N drop in filter, AEM CAI or Ice Man
For Headers, since you are on a budget, I wouldn't even bother until you can afford either mugen, SMSP, Hytech or RMF.
For Exhaust, it's really up to you on what your preference is. You have so many choices from APEXi, GReddy, Tananbe, RS*R, Mugen, SMSP or custom
A high flow cat or test pipe would be a nice addition to your exhaust if you decide not to go with headers at this time...
VAFC would be a great addition as well.
As for where to get the parts, if you are an EPC official member, most of our affiliated vendors will offer you a discount from 5-15%... |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by mike3
I don't know about 15-20 whp, but who knows. I think its always better to underesitmate your hp.
mugen full exhaust/header makes 20 whp easy....with intake/header/exhaust and standalone, I bet I could net more then that....actually maybe I'll take my car to the dyno and see. H22s are soo restrictive....
There's a guy w/ a red 4th gen in calgary who made 200 whp easy with basic bolt ons including Skunk2 IM....I mind you, its hondata tuned....all about the tuning... |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| id NEVER believe an h22 to net 200 WHP with just bolt ons and some tuning... preludes get like 140whp on the dyno how the hell can they get 60 whp from simple mods...i call bs |
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| doughboy |
| yeah, claims like that usually need dynoplots for backup |
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| newred |
quote:
Originally posted by 1_Bar
mugen full exhaust/header makes 20 whp easy....with intake/header/exhaust and standalone, I bet I could net more then that....actually maybe I'll take my car to the dyno and see. H22s are soo restrictive....
There's a guy w/ a red 4th gen in calgary who made 200 whp easy with basic bolt ons including Skunk2 IM....I mind you, its hondata tuned....all about the tuning...
Ya, i call BS on that one too, But Hondata would get you close, maybe... |
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| LudeDude19 |
| i/h/e are highly over rated in my opinion |
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| jubei |
| What do u guys think of polished injen CAI? I'm gonna say fuck the headers and just go intake/exhaust. What would be a good exhaust to match an injen CAI? |
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| LudeDude19 |
| i wouldn't bother spending mucho cash on a cai...just get a cheapy ebay tubing and throw a good filter on it like k&n |
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| jubei |
| i'm not gonna spend much cash, just wondering how good a polished injen cai is? :) |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
id NEVER believe an h22 to net 200 WHP with just bolt ons and some tuning... preludes get like 140whp on the dyno how the hell can they get 60 whp from simple mods...i call bs
140whp at the dyno?!? Sure if your an auto....even stock you can make 160whp with fuel/timing management....man if you haven't seen 200whp on bolts ons/tuning, you haven't gotten around much....
quote:
Originally posted by doughboy
yeah, claims like that usually need dynoplots for backup
done...obviously you don't look around for h22 NA plots...
AEM V2
Mugen header/exhaust
Random tech cat
VAFC2
and that's with shitty fuel tuning on a VAFC...
oooo.....AEM V2 and skunk2 catback, VAFC I 20whp gain....
Toss in a Skunk2 IM done, your close to 200whp with bolt ons. Toss in some stage 2 cam gears (crower/skunk/jun) and your abouve 200whp.....
Nothing major done, no p&p, no rebuilding of the block...nothing, pretty much bolt on... |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by luder
DC headers actually loose you hp over the stockers........
I think the mugen ones netted 3 or so hp.....
Headers won't get you a lot of power out of the h22a engine.
OMG mugen net 3 hp?!? So people spend $1200 roughly for that...I don't think so, what are you smoking?? These are for mugen headers and not the exhaust....
taken from PO
Mugen, gains across the entire powerband....I can't believe this is actually being compared to DC...
Here is stock w/ resonator removed vs. Mugen header and Cat-back w/ resonator removed by aklucsarits. The results speak for themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by luder
But remember, the quickest and cheapest way to make your car faster is to make it lighter. Rip out all of the interior, some lighter wheels, better rubber will be just as fast if not faster than modding the engine.[/i]
sure you can make it lighter, but try and find some mass in a prelude to lose. For every 100lbs you lose you gain roughly 0.1s on the 1/4 mile...so 500lbs = 0.5s. All the sound detening, spare tire, back seat, door panels, passanger seat will get you about 150lbs.
New wheels, like rota slips w/ decent rubber your looking at $1100 and this will save you an extra 40lbs roughly.
IMO if you wanna go faster, take care of the breathing first.... |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| id like to hear james opinion on this....its just not believable. 20 whp from a header is impossible i say |
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| 1_Bar |
| ^20whp from a header?!? where did you get that from?? The mugen header made 10whp from the dyno above... |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| yea sry it was a mistype haha.. i can see 10 hp from a mugen header but not to the wheels... |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
yea sry it was a mistype haha.. i can see 10 hp from a mugen header but not to the wheels...
what are you talking about?!? That was measured at the wheels on a dyno?? The motor was not pulled, slapped on some headers and tested at the crank and then installed again.... |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| i wasnt there when it was dynoed...is that dyno from mugen or just some guy ? |
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| 1_Bar |
| uh, neither was I....it was a dyno of just some guy who bought a mugen header and decided to test it against stock... |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| im not trusting it then.. how do we know if he had anything else done to his car... or if the dyno is even real at all ahah.. ive never heard of a mugen header adding 10 to the wheels..thats an insane gain a JR supercharger only gives my car 40 to the wheels and thats on a dyno right from JR |
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| mike3 |
| yeah 10 at the wheels seems a little bit out of reach. |
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| underdog 23 |
| well , 98luder tuned my car and its peaking at 169whp with dc, greddy and aem cold air with vafc2 . 4 months before that hanson dynoed my car stock and its registering 155whp. so i gained 14 whp. which leads me to believe that 10 whp on a mugen header is realistic. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| 14whp with over 3 grand in mods... this guy wants 40... same budget...it cant be done simple as that... and think about it... a VAFC 2 is what gave you most of your gains and even with that you only 14whp how much greater do you think mugen possibly is to give you such a sick amount of gain..they arent THATTTT much greater |
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| mike3 |
| sweet, 3 cold airs? a dc, greddy and an AEM? haha. Well if you can get up to 8 WHP out of a VAFC, that leaves you with 6 other hp to come from a header, cat back, and CAI (im assuming) I honestly don't believe 10 whp is possible from a mugen header, and won't until i see legit dyno graphs |
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| underdog 23 |
| mike3 u are right on the dot, thats exactly my breakdown on my mods. and yes dc wouldnt do squat but keep the engine bay rust looking free. and as h23 white was saying, yes 40 ponies is way out of reach until u go on some form of fi. but theres a guy here parting out his turbo kit for h22 only for $2500. but the question is would the engine hold for a good time frame? |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
im not trusting it then.. how do we know if he had anything else done to his car... or if the dyno is even real at all ahah.. ive never heard of a mugen header adding 10 to the wheels..thats an insane gain a JR supercharger only gives my car 40 to the wheels and thats on a dyno right from JR
Because the dyno was taken from a reliable source, satan_srv over on honda-tech/preludeonline. And why would anyone fake a dyno?!?
ooo....JRSC 40+hp to the wheel at 6psi. Look around JRSC w/ 10lbs pulley, people have dynoed 264whp!! Even the greddy kit you can pull 250whp....
Did you tune your car after the JRSC was put on??
wow...you guys are :rolleyes: There's a reason why the mugen exhaust/headers retail for close to $3000.....10whp is not that much, I don't know why you guys are so skeptical |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| i never put a JRSC on my car...im just taking the dyno sheet from the manufacturer rather then some dude ive never seen before...alot of people have a tendency to lie on dyno sheets... |
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| jubei |
| VAFC-2, injen CAI, and Catback exhaust should give me about 20hp right? I can get all 3 of these for about 1500. |
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| underdog 23 |
| for me , i remain confident that mugen header can do wonders on a dyno. like 1bar was saying 10whp are not much. if my car has mugen, definetely ill be around 175hp. throw in a good intake manifold maybe a better injectors ,fuel pressure regulator and rails, hondata tuning. i would assume that youll be close. on top of that put it on a dyno jet which always reads higher hp than dynapack. then your up there for sure. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| cmon james wheres ur in put hahah.... hes the only one on this board i would trust... i might be wrong but i wouldnt believe it till i got his opinion |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
i never put a JRSC on my car...im just taking the dyno sheet from the manufacturer rather then some dude ive never seen before...alot of people have a tendency to lie on dyno sheets...
dyno sheet from the manufacturer vs. some dude, I'll take the word of real world numbers
http://forums.beyond.ca/attachment.php?s=&postid=925016
Numbers from my friend. JRSC 6psi pulley, AEM CAI, mugen headers, tanabe exhaust and some mild tuning VAFC and JRSC piggy back. As you can see, this is a real dyno from PET (back in the day....) Numbers are exactly what JR posted, but this is a more modified car......
Now back on topic: jubei yes those gains could be possible with your setup. VAFC-II, CAI and a decent catback should make some decent numbers. |
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| mike3 |
| It just seems that you could get 10 whp out of just a header. mugen headers look like every other header, just nicer looking. I don't doubt they'd give a few extra hp, 10 at the wheels just seems unrealistic. |
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| 2ndgenlude |
maybe at a certain rpm its possible, like a CAI can add 15whp, but only at 4000rpm
would never gain you 15 through the whole rpm range though. |
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| 1_Bar |
wow...have you ever seen a stock header and mugen header, or even a DC header side by side?!? 1.9" inner diameter (DC sports) 2.3" for the mugen and stock is 2.0"
check the following for some header shootouts:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothrea...2589&page=4 |
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| mike3 |
| I know diameter are different with pretty much every header. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
this came from James...
Its UNLIKELY but possible to net as much as 10whp... but again unlikely...
james said with his full mugen exhaust and header..ANDDDDDD tuning only netted him 26 whp.... so good fuckin luck nailing 40 with less money.. |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
this came from James...
Its UNLIKELY but possible to net as much as 10whp... but again unlikely...
james said with his full mugen exhaust and header..ANDDDDDD tuning only netted him 26 whp.... so good fuckin luck nailing 40 with less money..
who said anything about getting 40whp w/ just header/exhaust?!? If you followed the thread (apparently not) then it would be clear that we were debating on weather or not 200whp could be achieved w/ basic bolt ons (which it can)....and money was not an issue w/ this debate....
So James said 26whp, that's cool....If I told you that, you'd probably would not believe me....that's fine. 10whp from a quality header is possible, perhaps you should search other header manufacturers such as SMSP/Prospeed and call their BS for their calims too.....:drama: |
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| jubei |
| okay how about lets keep this at a level where i can participate at my own thread. LMFAO!! Could u guys just point me in the right direction for best bang for buck for increasing hp/accel. I'm not a moron, just new to the tuning scene. LOL, anybody need BB tips and i'm all over it. Oh I just bought a vafc-2. Wohoo!!! |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| well 200whp with bolt ons isnt happening sorry... and anything you say isnt gunna prove that hah.. even with tuning james didnt make 200whp and his shit was top of the line. ive never seen 200whp on any lude with just bolt ons, specially with no tuning and even yet keeping the budget under 3000 which this fellar has. there is no drama here, just trying to keep it realistic |
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| jubei |
| k, instead of arguing over exact figures could u plz direct me in the best way to put my money towards achieving my goals. Alot of u guys have a great amount of knowledge that I could benifit from. TY! |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
well 200whp with bolt ons isnt happening sorry... and anything you say isnt gunna prove that hah.. even with tuning james didnt make 200whp and his shit was top of the line. ive never seen 200whp on any lude with just bolt ons, specially with no tuning and even yet keeping the budget under 3000 which this fellar has. there is no drama here, just trying to keep it realistic
I guess ignorance is bliss....
quote:
Originally posted by jubei
k, instead of arguing over exact figures could u plz direct me in the best way to put my money towards achieving my goals. Alot of u guys have a great amount of knowledge that I could benifit from. TY!
VAFC II I guess you got covered, CAI and a catback exhaust and slap that bitch on a dyno...done. I got an AEM and T1R respectively and I am pleased.
Injen CAI, Skunk2 catbacks, Greddy PE, Apexi N1 are all good products....just got to find one that suits your taste.
I got a skunk2 IM and a mugen header on its way here. I'll tune it and you'll see some figures close to 200whp :drama: |
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| underdog 23 |
| 1 bar, how much did u purchase the skunk IM, if u dont mind me askin? im seriously contemplating to buy one. would i need standalone here or vafc will be fine?. thanx |
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| mike3 |
| Listen to 1_bar for the products he listed. There all very good, and 1_bar, im curious to see the gains from the IM |
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| 1_Bar |
quote:
Originally posted by underdog 23
1 bar, how much did u purchase the skunk IM, if u dont mind me askin? im seriously contemplating to buy one. would i need standalone here or vafc will be fine?. thanx
I'll just tell you cost is around $450....standalone would be better, but a VAFC is better then stock. What's nice with the IM is that the gains from header/exhaust/cams...etc will increase. Still working to get a spoon TB or a used S2k one.....
As for gains...there's a 4th gen h22 (type-s) that gained 15whp peak on a street tune with the manifold and some other minor mods to the motor...saw the dyno at Speedtech when I was there one day.
For my dyno, I'll post it up when it gets tuned...probably in 2 weeks w/ a few other luders here in Calgary.... |
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| underdog 23 |
| u mean theres is a difference between a type s IM from a regular h22 IM? anyways im not ready yet for a standalone thats why i asked u if vafc will be just fine. thanx for the info. |
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| 1_Bar |
| no..sorry, should have clairfied, the motor in that 4th gen is a JDM H22 from a Type-S in Japan. The 220hp one....VAFC will be okay for now, with bolt ons its not badd. If your hardcore then get a standalone... |
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| Xx D-MAN xX |
Satan_SRV is a very reliable source. If that is his dyno plot that was posted, I beleive it.
I have no doubt that the addition of a mugen header/ high flow cat/ mugen exhaust, with addition of dyno tuning, could net you close if not more than 30whp.
I will be doing a dyno tuning session this weekend at APEX with the assitance of James so we will see what my final numbers are. Unfortunately, since this is a completely different dyno then when I last did my car, I won't have a very reliable comparison...
Okay, so back on topic guys, he wants to know what the best bang for his buck is when it comes to performance upgrades... |
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| 1_Bar |
| ^hope you make some good numbers from that good ol' SS. I wanna see your numbers compared to mine... |
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