| Bracket Racing - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Pro Drag |
So you want Bracket racing. :bigthumbup:
That is the class where driver skill shines. |
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| 4kruzn |
| ;) maybe some of you should step back from the forum and look at what you are saying about your 14 second hot rods. how would one possibly come up with a class other that et based, or bracket racing to be fair. remember there are more and more factory cars capable of those times, we will not draw fan base or sponcers or please the majority of people by trying to develope a class where stock of the showroom cars are "The fast cars" look at all the sanction bodys, not just idrc and you will see that none of them are set up to showcase 14 second and slower cars. but they do have a class for them!!!! its called bracket. on the flip side build your car for any of the fast classes and strive to go faster. and like some of you are already saying about the guy with the most money remember, money wont win him the race, but it sure is a shit load easier for him. so that just means we have to be smarter....... :wacko: |
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| redbaron303 |
PearlyWhiteTSI: If bracket racing offers me a fair advantage against a car that should run faster than me and gives me the chance to run fairly against others who drive like ass then sure. Next year I will be able to make a better decision because I'll step foot onto the track for the first time, ya that's right... the first time! I'm sure that not all people on here have raced at the track, I guess basically that I'm the one that doesn't truly understand everything being said on here, doesn't have the fastest car, doesn't have the greatest skills, and hasn't raced on the track (doesn't mean I haven't raced...)!
What I was trying to say before is that I like structure, something that's easy for an idiot like me to follow until I become ultrafamiliar with the track scene from more than the bleachers! I don't know, am I being a complete moron?! I just want something that allows us, the beginners to be able to learn, have fun, be competitive, but not have our ASSES HANDED to us! |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jan 19 2003, 09:01 PM
PearlyWhiteTSI: If bracket racing offers me a fair advantage against a car that should run faster than me and gives me the chance to run fairly against others who drive like ass then sure. Next year I will be able to make a better decision because I'll step foot onto the track for the first time, ya that's right... the first time! I'm sure that not all people on here have raced at the track, I guess basically that I'm the one that doesn't truly understand everything being said on here, doesn't have the fastest car, doesn't have the greatest skills, and hasn't raced on the track (doesn't mean I haven't raced...)!
What I was trying to say before is that I like structure, something that's easy for an idiot like me to follow until I become ultrafamiliar with the track scene from more than the bleachers! I don't know, am I being a complete moron?! I just want something that allows us, the beginners to be able to learn, have fun, be competitive, but not have our ASSES HANDED to us!
Redbaron: Bracket class sounds perfectly tailored to your needs.
I like structure as well and that is why I and others would like to see a well established set of rules from a major sanctioning body adopted for drag racing events involving the Import/Sport Compact scene.
You aren't being a complete moron by any means. The sanctioning bodies of drag racing have developed classes to suit racer's of every level, Novice to Champion. :bigthumbup: |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 19 2003, 10:15 PM
The sanctioning bodies of drag racing have developed classes to suit racer's of every level, Novice to Champion. :bigthumbup:
Thanks for the support there.
They've done it for a reason, doesn't mean the rest of the world should follow to a tee. However why not get established from pre-established rules. Like Pearly said, from Novice to Champion... something for everyone. I'm sure this will be sorted out in time.... just as long as us novice people aren't stepped all over in the upcoming season :) |
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| SRBURG13 |
| And aren't all crammed into one class called "bracket". There will be like 30 of us in there, and maybe like 2 or 3 in the other classes????? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by SRBURG13@Jan 20 2003, 05:04 PM
And aren't all crammed into one class called "bracket". There will be like 30 of us in there, and maybe like 2 or 3 in the other classes?????
Most other sanctioning body classes other than bracket have a cap of either 8 or 16 cars. We will for sure be able to fill a "street" class field with a qualifying e.t. of 13.99 or lower. We might even be fortunate enough to have a "Quick" field of 8, don't know about 16 though. :unsure:
If you don't want to be "crammed" into the bracket class, build a car to compete in the other classes and hope you qualify. :bigthumbup: |
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| REFLUX |
| um....wat's bracket racing??? :blink: |
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| mrprecidia |
ET Racing, or Bracket Racing as it is commonly called, is the "grass roots" level of drag racing. It was started as an alternative to the high-dollar class racing of the 60's and 70's, even into today. Bracket racing allows almost anyone to race, on a fairly even playing field. This variety of the sport places much more emphasis on the driver than the car itself. It has now become the most competitive form of drag racing in the world, with the largest number of competitors.
Bracket racing has even evolved to the point where there are some drivers who are professional bracket racers, who travel to all the big money races, and are good enough to actually make a living at it. More and more $5,000 and $10,000 to win races are popping up all over the nation. For most, though, bracket racing is more of a hobby.
ET racers have a very wide range of opportunities in building their cars, as there are few regulations regarding engine specs, etc. Most of the rules are safety related, rather. The cars are split up into classes, dependent on how fast the cars run in the quarter-mile. Rules vary throughout the seven divisions of the NHRA, which cover the entire US, as well as parts of Canada. In Division 1, the Northeast Division, the classes are separated into Super Pro, Heavy, and Bike. Most tracks also have a Street or Trophy class as well, like my track's ETK (Elapsed Time King of the Street) class. In the last couple years, Junior Dragster classes have become all the rage: 1/2 scale dragsters powered by 5 horsepower Briggs & Stratton motors for kids up to 15 years old.
All right, here's the real basic principles of bracket racing. At a race, you are given several time trials, which are used just as practice, and to see what times your car runs. In eliminations, which are single elimination tournament style, it's you against one other racer. You select a time that you think your car will run. That's called your dial-in. When two cars compete, they subtract the dial-ins, and the slower car gets that much of a head start. The theory is that if both drivers get identical reaction times, and both run what they predicted, they will meet right at the finish line... a tie. In practicality, this never happens. Reaction times will differ, and the car may run quicker or slower than predicted.
Reaction times are a huge part of winning (or losing!) races. They are also perhaps the most difficult part of drag racing, although it seems deceptively simple. We'll cover the basics of the starting system and reaction times in The Reaction Time Clinic.©Michael Beard
Now you say, "Why don't I just dial-in at 18 seconds, and I'll get a big head start and win?" There's the trick. If you run quicker than your dial, you lose! This is called a breakout. Basically, this means that you want to guess exactly what the car will run. If you guess far quicker than what the car can run, you won't be able to run fast enough, and your opponent can easily beat you to the finish. If you guess far slower, a practice called sandbagging, it is very likely that you will break out and lose.
There are many complex situations that arise from these handicapping rules. What happens if both cars break out? In this case, the car that runs out the least wins. How can someone win if they didn't cross the finish line first? If the other car breaks out more than you do, or he runs out and you don't, you win, no matter how much he beat you to the line by. Because of the possibility of breaking out, there are actually many instances where you will hit the brakes to win! This is covered in what we call Top-end Tactics.
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Disclaimer: While based on facts about drag racing, these pages contain the personal views and opinions of author(s). |
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| REFLUX |
cooooool
thnx Bobby |
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| redbaron303 |
I think it'll be fun for us novice racers... I just hope that everyone will have a fun season!
Maybe this is a dumb question, but we don't race for big money here do we?! |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jan 20 2003, 09:51 PM
I think it'll be fun for us novice racers... I just hope that everyone will have a fun season!
Maybe this is a dumb question, but we don't race for big money here do we?!
The Sport Compact scene doesn't. Some of us are trying to change that, but are being met with opposition on some level's.
The "old school" have a National Event coming to Edmonton in the form of the Rocky Mountain Nationals this year and for the next 5 years. The date of this years event is June 27-29.
How much are the competitor's gunning for? A cool quarter million at this single event. Oh yeah, and that's American Dollars!
If our scene can get it's act together, the ground work is already laid out for us, we just have to suck it up and take advantage of our facilities. |
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| talont |
The IDRC may be suited to you if you are just entering into the racing scene and own a stock or near stock 14,15,16...sec car. The IDRC has a mandatory Bracket class for you. Which is a good place for your racing education to begin. You can learn important driving skills here. If all you ever want to do is race against a dial in time, this for you.
If you have put money into making your car faster and feel you would like to race against OTHER CARS and not your own dial in time you may be disappointed to find out that the street class (the next class up) is open to cars that are 13.99 and faster in the quarter mile (Street Class does have many other limiting factors about what you can/cannot have done to your car, let us reflect on the recent tire debate) :).
Will you be competitive in the street class with a 13-sec car racing against a car in the low 11's or high 10's?
Even if you spend thousands and have a 12sec car why would you want to race in the street class only to loose to someone who has a race built machine capable of 10's.
You will find little reason to making your car faster unless you are ready to place a great deal of money into your car to become competitive.
Its unfortunate that there is such a large GREY AREA where people who are caught in the middle, have spent time and money on making there cars faster (or would like to) but are forced into either racing against "Tim Clutch Slipper" and his new neon in the Bracket Class or against "Greg Turbohead" and his 10sec Racing Machine in the Street Class. It’s a near impossible step for the average person to take all at once going from Bracket to Street.
IDRC has something for everyone.... Unless you already find your self in the Grey Area or wanting to be.
It looks to me like there is allot of room in the Street Class to break things up into a few smaller more competitive classes. Otherwise I fail to see how only a hand full of our communities fastest cars can fill all of IDRC's many Elite classes and still leave so many other quick cars with little in the way of options. IDRC does an excellent job of catering to the needs of the beginners or bracket racers and the elite head to head classes. Until there is a heads up Class even remotely competitive in the IDRC for anyone trying to build their car up to go faster and not having the initial 15g's to do so, we should implement a version of the IDRC rules which will be better tailored to our needs.
Prize money, cars and sponsors able to fully support the Full implementation of the IDRC will not change overnight and until such time, the rules we do implement should reflect evenly what support we do have.
P.S. Thanks Pearly for going out of your way to help educate our ever growing race community about the benefits we can all enjoy with the implementation of rules. You have had a positive influence with your many thoughts and ideas.
GOOD JOB :bigthumbup: |
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| Pro Drag |
Nobody is forcing anybody to race in "street" class. Just because your car is capable of a 10 second pass and is eligible to run in "street" class doesn't mean you have to.
For those who want to go hardcore and race for big money, that is what the "street" class and "higher" classes are for.
The payout is in place, we just need a promoter who is willing to adopt a sanctioning bodies rules. The highest payout is for Street Class so far. If the promoter wants to divy up everybody into 12 different classes, that is his perogative, he can also supply the prizes.
The short of it is, there is relatively big money to be had this season, and thusly, fierce competition. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 19 2003, 05:18 PM
So you want Bracket racing. :bigthumbup:
That is the class where driver skill shines.
Its also the class where automatic transmissions shine.
:thumbsdown: |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane@Jan 21 2003, 12:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 19 2003, 05:18 PM
So you want Bracket racing. :bigthumbup:
That is the class where driver skill shines.
Its also the class where automatic transmissions shine.
:thumbsdown:
Don't "auto" tranny's also shine once you hit huge power #'s? In my opinion they give nice consistancy for any driver in any class....
Personally I like heads up racing, I think it's a little more fun (from my experience).... done it "once or twice" on the street..... but by the sounds of it bracket racing could give me a chance against some of the faster cars that would blow me out of the water with little effort. A 14.3 isn't that impressive, but being able to run consistant is... or at least I think it is.
I think that a we ought to go out to one of the street legal events, the beginners with some of the "pros/more experienced" racers and have them teach us how to do this properlly... everything from staging lane setup, through the 1/4 mile, and back up the side road for time slips... plus some tips on basic maintanance of the car on a hot race day.... even style on how to launch and not destroy your clutch and breaking at the end.... My tutor has been fast and furious and watching the guys at the track and on the street, probably not the best guides!
Point = not everyone is experienced even though they've raced before. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jan 21 2003, 01:36 PM
Don't "auto" tranny's also shine once you hit huge power #'s? In my opinion they give nice consistancy for any driver in any class....
Exactly. It seems everybody wants the rules tailored to their specific needs to give them a better chance at winning. This is human nature. Adopting an established set of rules from a sanctioning allows everyone to run on an equal playing field of thier choice. If you don't bring "enough" you usually don't win. Such is life. :bigthumbup: |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 21 2003, 01:10 PM
[If you don't bring "enough" you usually don't win. Such is life. :bigthumbup:
That's so TRUE!
No offense to that Mau guy, but don't tell me that Supra wouldn't be a little slower if so much money/time wasn't invested in it... We all know there are fast cars to start with but when you dump a pile of cash into em, they just get faster.... Even that silver supra that was out was pretty quick and consistant with it's auto tranny! Jack C runs pretty consistant times considering his RX7 is a 5spd and that doesn't offer you the best edge always :D All three of these cars have piles of money sunk into them and they're some of the fastest out there along with a couple talons...
In heads up the money will win.... in bracket it's the skill that will win... I decided this through my brilliant deductive reasoning... money = fast car + all the bells/whistles; skill = consistant times (auto/manual)... B) |
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| talont |
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Jan 21 2003, 01:10 PM
Exactly. It seems everybody wants the rules tailored to their specific needs to give them a better chance at winning. This is human nature. Adopting an established set of rules from a sanctioning allows everyone to run on an equal playing field of their choice. If you don't bring "enough" you usually don't win. Such is life. :bigthumbup:
Do you truly think everyone is trying to manipulate the implementation of rules for our community to enforce their own designs making for an unfair advantage?
It’s so very important to have everyone voice THEIR opinions about this issue to shape what will be THEIR racing environment. I would rather that you spoke for yourself instead of putting the words of others and there true meaning under a blanket statement like the above quoted.
"Adopting an established set of rules from a sanctioning allows everyone to run on an equal playing field of their choice"
As long as they are designed to be compatible with the environment they are being placed into. I think I have shown where the rules for the 2002 IDRC have many shortcomings, as far as classes and choices for a small growing market like ours. You have mentioned the 2003 IDRC rules have two new classes that may address some of the failings of the 2002 Rules, as they would apply to our community. That would be great if they do. Keep us all posted :bigthumbup:
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redbaron303 don’t be fooled into thinking that the bracket class is just skill. People do spend thousands on making their cars competitive specifically for a bracket class. Suspension-tires-clutches-well tuned engines...... are all going to make for a better, stronger more consistent running car.
It doesn’t matter if you are running in a heads up class or bracket class. Driver skill is very important. In bracket you want to be skillful at being consistent. The hole shot is very important. You want your reaction time to be the same, your 60FT times to be the same, time after time.
In the heads up class it is similar except you want to be consistent and fast. |
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| Inzane |
Redbaron, your Z31 Turbo is running ~ 14.3 in the 1/4?? When did you run that, I mean... which event?
I don't recall any Z31s that qualified at SCCC. Was it one of the BOIs (which I didn't attend)?
Just curious. |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane@Jan 23 2003, 10:04 AM
Redbaron, your Z31 Turbo is running ~ 14.3 in the 1/4?? When did you run that, I mean... which event?
I don't recall any Z31s that qualified at SCCC. Was it one of the BOIs (which I didn't attend)?
Just curious.
I wasn't driving the car then, it was the prev. owner that was... and which event, it wasn't sccc but rather one of the street legal nights?! I was there to witness my car shoot down the 1/4 mile.... god knows what I could pull in it?!
We'll see with my new Z31... that is if that engine doesn't die and I have to swap before summer :S |
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| impulser |
I myself dont care much for the brackets but it is a good introduction to the legal race scene, and i was quite happy to race in it last time at BOI because it was my first time with the car at the track and even though it is turbo it was bone stock and i had no idea what it would run, not to mention everyone in the comp. would have crushed me.
My $.02 |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by talont@Jan 23 2003, 02:32 AM
"Adopting an established set of rules from a sanctioning allows everyone to run on an equal playing field of their choice"
As long as they are designed to be compatible with the environment they are being placed into. I think I have shown where the rules for the 2002 IDRC have many shortcomings, as far as classes and choices for a small growing market like ours. You have mentioned the 2003 IDRC rules have two new classes that may address some of the failings of the 2002 Rules, as they would apply to our community. That would be great if they do. Keep us all posted :bigthumbup:
Seeing as how the IDRC has not posted the rules for their new classes yet.
"E.T. Bracket Classes
(SUPER COMP, SUPER MOD, SUPER STOCK)
Are you ready to run what you brung? It doesn’t matter
how fast your car is or isn’t. There’s a bracket class for
you to win within the IDRC’s bracket classes. Open to
all import and "high-tech" domestics from stock to
dragsters. The bracket classes feature the best foot
brake (no delay box) racing action. Vehicles can be mild
to wild, full race or full street. Bring mom’s car, it’s time
to have fun.
Class Specifications
Eligibility
All vehicles must pay racer entry fee. The racer on the
tech card for the vehicle must also be the driver.
Additional drivers will pay full race entry fee and must
notify officials that there will be two drivers. Driver that
qualifies vehicle must also be the driver in elimination
rounds. All vehicles must pass the safety tech
inspection issued by the track. Most tracks follow NHRA
or IHRA safety regulations.
Engine
Only one internal-combustion engine permitted in vehicle.
Power Adders
No restrictions
Fuel
All vehicles must run on gasoline or methanol. Pump
and racing gasoline are acceptable. Gasoline or
methanol may not have nitromethane, propylene oxide
or nitropropane added. All fuels are subject to testing by
IDRC officials.
Transmissions
Any transmission allowed.
Chassis-All Basic
All bracket class vehicles must be an import. Domestic
vehicle must be an electronic-fuel-injected domestic
manufactured after 1985.
Suspension & Chassis
Any modifications allowed.
Tires
Slicks or radials permitted.
Electronics
No delay boxes permitted.
Class Breakdowns (Standard)
S/C Super Comp 7.50-to-12.99 dial
S/M Super Mod 13.00-to-14.99 dial
S/S Super Stock 15.00-and-up dial
Class Breakdowns (High-Altitude)*
S/C Super Comp 7.50-to-14.99 dial
S/M Super Mod 15.00-to-16.99 dial
S/S Super Stock 17.00-and-up dial
*Will be instituted at Bandimere and LACR-Palmdale
events"
So it looks like the past V8less events might have inadvertantly been tailored to IDRC rules. Everybody seemed pleased with the classes and there wasn't too much sandbagging going on.
It isn't broke, so there is nothing to fix.
The serious racer's want regulations laid down to prevent the scene FROM breaking down as more competitors evolve above the bracket classes.
So far the IDRC rulebook, whether we knew it or not, has led to exciting competition in our scene, why switch to something else?
Edit: All IDRC bracket classes offer $500 for first and $200 for R/U.
A hell of a lot better than what we compete for now.
I'll sponser a bracket class that institutes these rules. :bigthumbup: |
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| 1mns13 |
| Bracket racing is always a good place to hone skills before getting carried away with horsepower. And if you can't run with the fast cars it allows you to beat them if they try to run bracket and you're experienced. I used to have a little fun in bracket when I ran 16.7's. |
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| Nightstalker |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jan 21 2003, 12:36 PM
My tutor has been fast and furious
I cry for this statement.. don't forget to double clutch and screw those floor plates down extra tight.. Oh, and get a nitrous system that makes you take your eyes (and hands) off the stearing wheel to setup a second stage burn.. :unsure:
.... at least I guess you noticed its not the best idea to learn from.. |
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| blk240sx |
| i think bracket racin is a goo didea because it gives even those guys (myself included) who havent touched thier engines yet a chnace ot compete and still have a chnace at winning.......................im all for it ......liek what is the use of me racing that supra from calgary or and of your cars that have had money pored into them...................i got shit so im for it i mean soon enought ill feel the same way eventualy but 4 no bracket is all good |
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