| Markgase2000 |
^^ please do not treat this as a flame thread , I am in love with cars from pretty much every manufacturer but I am interested in what you all think. Why do import cars hold resale value better?
NOT A FLAME!!
Thanks this might help me understand the difference. |
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| SketchifisT |
umm put together better? Alot of mid 80s and earlier domestic just kinda died after a certain number of years , certain factory flaws. Thats my guess, plus cheaper to maintain is agood myth but idunno. My acura motor isn't cheap well its honda but in canada they make it sound like its a completely different engine then a honda.
Meh yeah so what isaid before, they are built a little better? my 79 civic is still goin hard so yeah .. just an example |
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| Cobra_R |
because people are buying fuel efficent vehicles and honda's especcialy hold higher resale value due to the fact the engines use less gas easier to handle and you can take that engine up and down hills all day and you will wear out before it does.
but domestics being cheaply built come now wtf where you lookin at i still see late model fords chevs dodges on the road and trucks well trucks can take beatings and laugh at you. |
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| SketchifisT |
| I was sayin IN GENERAL. Domestic have things go wrong, not sayin imports dont have that as well, just its believed that imports are better made then domestics which generally is true. Yes i know there are some old trucks still takin beatins but just cause 5-10 are, out of 25000 made doesn't make it reliable |
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| SaabKraft |
i think many import cars fall into the mid to compact size segment, which has been an area in which domestic manufacturers have not had a lot of success in. after years of building reliable trucks and big, lazy V8 engines (which can indeed, last forever), they found themselves trying to position themselves in a growing market that the japanese manufacturers had gotten the first toehold in.
now think of domestic 4 bangers from the 80's and early 90's. think of the tempos and mercury topaz', the daytonas, , the cavaliers. not exactly the spitting image of a well designed affordable car (think build quality and reliability).
alot of the early american 'compact' cars were pushed out in high volume to make profits, and suffered from sub-par engineering and cost-cutting measures. and it's a reputation that's hung around for quite some time. the japanese cars proved themselves to be cheap to maintain, reliable and easy to get parts for, and generally outlived their domestic counterparts.
things have improved since then, but domestic compacts are still viewed by the public as more 'disposable' than their japanese compacts. |
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| Markgase2000 |
I personally think population plays a big role in it I think it plays the whole role. If I were to compare 1000 cars to 100,000 cars Im sure I will find more things wrong with the 100,000. Its a population thing and thats the ONLY reason the cars are worth more. I think if it werent for the import markets inovations the domestic market wouldnt need to be inovative. But according to "market and margins" the only reason is rarity no other really.......
I like rarity over popular I see why the imports have better value they have more unique features and stand out among the crowd. :thumbup:
Like I said its a numbers game and this is not a flame thread but if import companies had to meet a NorthAmerican quota like ford/gm/dodge/ then they will have just as many flaws and defects in there machines as well. Since the have to meet a "lighter" quota they can take the time to ensure the machines are top notch/quality and it still is iffy to me as why they are better or worse in general. What Im saying is why be biased according to stats by % why not look at real market numbers?
Sorry this jsut bothers me a bit I figure a discussion on the matter may clear me up :) |
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| newaccorddriver |
id say take a look everywhere you go. you see a whole bunch of import cars and domestic cars, about a 50/50 ratio out on the roads(im only estimating here). if you go to a used dealership of some kind, you will almost notice that imports are costing more then their domestic counterparts. i dont think it has anything to do with supply and demand, i just think that the americans build way too many 'disposable cars'(ie sunfires cavaliers, neons) compared to their import competitors.
parts prices also has a say in that as well. a domestic car has cheap to replace parts, but thats probably due to NAFTA and the fact taht their parts are probably made somewhere within NA. import companies probably make their parts from their country of origin and then ship it over to here and costs are raised from taxes/duties/customs and other stuff. that being said, somehow if you stepped into a junkyard for parts, youll almost always see more domestic cars then imports cause the american companies have been selling their cars here for a longer time and the imported cars just hit our shores a few decades ago. give it a few more decades and you might see a bunch of imports at junk yards. either way thats just my opinion. |
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| n0c7 |
| F&F, ever since then every kid wants a honda with a 4.5" muffler. |
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| newaccorddriver |
quote:
Originally posted by n0c7
F&F, ever since then every kid wants a honda with a 4.5" muffler.
i hear ya man... i had no choice but to put a CDN tire muffler on my car after my OEM one broke off... it was a slight bit quieter, but now since my pipe snapped im pissed cause its loud as hell... but surprisingly its quieter then those fart cans those kids buy |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by Markgase2000
^^ please do not treat this as a flame thread , I am in love with cars from pretty much every manufacturer but I am interested in what you all think. Why do import cars hold resale value better?
NOT A FLAME!!
Thanks this might help me understand the difference.
Hi Mark,
Great question.
I think why import cars hold a better resale value than North American vehicles is that they are considered to be a more reliable vehicle. Granted with every manufacturer there are going to be lemons produced. Back in the day North American vehicles had a very short life span and were not known for quality. Now North American vehciles have made huge improvements in their reliability of their vehciles there fore increasing the lifespan of the vehicle. For instance GM has made huge improvements with their vehicles and their reliability and are running very close to the top. I believe that I read somewhere recently if they continue on the path that they are, they will surpass Toyota in reliability with in a few short years.
Another reason I believe they hold onto their resale value is that the market is flooded with North American Vehicles. With the huge "Sales Drives" to push the product out of the show room with insane incentives, more and more people are purchasing them. Allso these vehicle manufactures make huge improvements every year making the predecessing models not as desireable as the technology is becoming obsolete. However inregars to the "import" vehicles the market is flooded with Civics and other type of economy cars. It all depends on the type of car, how many were produced, and the shape of the car which can help with the resale value. I feel that the economy cars that are broduced by the "North American" car companies are more disposable cars now. You buy them, drive them for 5 or so years then send them to the junk yard. There will always be a market for pre-owned vehicles.
As for the repairs, "Import" vehicles are more to repair when they break down. Maintenance is not too bad, again depending on the car, and if you know how to do it your self or take it in.
However I find the word "import" amusing when it is applied to a vehicle. Reason why you ask? Well if you look at the majority of "Import" vehicles now, where are they made? They are made in the "USA". That makes their origin of birth North American. These cars are build mostly using USA/Canadian/Mexican materials. however using technology that has been brought over from Japan, Korea.
I too enjoy all vehicles, regardless of Manufactuer.
This post was not meant to disrespect nor insult anyone. I appologise in advance if I have offended anyone.
Mike Nikolai |
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| DomesticDrifter |
| in alot of cases you're paying a popularity tax. a prime example is a rusted out 1989 240sx be selling for 5g's because it is the "in" car at the moment. |
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| madx |
the main reason that imports hold their value better is because the import manufactures don't put on crazy promotions where the consumer can get 5 to 15000 off the price of the vehicle right when they walk in the door. think about it this way, last year if i bought a chevy cavalier for lets say 20g's and this year you bought the eaxact same car but you got a 5g discount right away, that makes my cavalier automatically worth 5g's less plus i have a years worth of depreciation. Also, when you give lots of money as a discount you saturate the market with that certain vehicle or certain brand of vehicles. but everyone is right, cars that have less quality dont resell as well. also, some ppl may think that imports cost more to repair, while for the most part this is true, but consider this, is it cheaper to get your car fixed once or getting your car get fixed 4 or 5 times.
thats my 2cents |
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| Therin |
quote:
Originally posted by SketchifisT
umm put together better? Alot of mid 80s and earlier domestic just kinda died after a certain number of years , certain factory flaws. Thats my guess, plus cheaper to maintain is agood myth but idunno. My acura motor isn't cheap well its honda but in canada they make it sound like its a completely different engine then a honda.
I fucking HATE THAT! i drive an Acura EL its the EXACT same thing as a Honda Civic EX in the usa. the only difference is the front bumper, lights, quater panel and hood. and the trunk and rear bumper and its barely different at that.
here in GP i go to honda to get it serviced and they make a HUGE fuckng deal about it. pisses me right the fuck off. they try to make me pay more for the shit, fuck that. i get pretty mad about it as you can see.
went to get my brakes done, ooooooh acuuuurrraa, well were gonna have to get your brake pads on special order...fuck off gimme these ones. they wont fit... wanna bet????
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH
sorry to jack your thread here, but i needed to vent that and what you said triggered it. |
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| newaccorddriver |
quote:
Originally posted by Therin
I fucking HATE THAT! i drive an Acura EL its the EXACT same thing as a Honda Civic EX in the usa. the only difference is the front bumper, lights, quater panel and hood. and the trunk and rear bumper and its barely different at that.
here in GP i go to honda to get it serviced and they make a HUGE fuckng deal about it. pisses me right the fuck off. they try to make me pay more for the shit, fuck that. i get pretty mad about it as you can see.
went to get my brakes done, ooooooh acuuuurrraa, well were gonna have to get your brake pads on special order...fuck off gimme these ones. they wont fit... wanna bet????
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH
sorry to jack your thread here, but i needed to vent that and what you said triggered it.
nicely said... the acura EL is practically the same as the civic. id think people only go for it cause its an acura, its luxury which people can afford. im sorry, but youve been fooled into buying an expensive civic.
about those technicians, they say that those pads are different compared to the civic ones? maybe the back ones are(they got rear discs), but seriously, id bet good money that the front ones are the same as the civics, id tell them to go put the civic ones on anyways and youll take the risks |
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| turbo_dave |
| i for one enjoy low resale, that is until i can afford a new car :) |
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| RS13 |
HAhahahaa
The only thing different between the Acura El and the Civic besides body panels is the brakes. The Acura has slightly larger brakes but that is the only difference.
Rob |
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| Markgase2000 |
Cool i got alot of nice responses here thanks alot fellas :thumbup:
Im gonna guess what the best resale cars are right now , VW Golfs and Jettas thats my guess am I close? |
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| Inzane |
Regarding the resale difference, people have addressed:
- reliability
- repair costs
- production numbers
But no one has mentioned desirability. Overall the import makes tend to make models that are generally speaking just more desireable all around. I don't know how else to put it. Sometimes its subtle intangible things, sometimes its major obvious things.
(the recent domestic efforts such as the SRT-4 and Cobalt/Redline SS might start change that now that they're stepping up to trump in the HP department - so at least in one area they are becoming more desirable.) |
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| Markgase2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Regarding the resale difference, people have addressed:
- reliability
- repair costs
- production numbers
But no one has mentioned desirability. Overall the import makes tend to make models that are generally speaking just more desireable all around. I don't know how else to put it. Sometimes its subtle intangible things, sometimes its major obvious things.
(the recent domestic efforts such as the SRT-4 and Cobalt/Redline SS might start change that now that they're stepping up to trump in the HP department - so at least in one area they are becoming more desirable.)
This is how it works in the auto sales buisness. Numbers.....
Bigger numbers = worth less. More desirable cars tend to be rarer and people want to be different I understand that but I kinda feel it is a falacy that imports are better all around than domestics its a personal taste or opinion.
Could anybody find a non biased "report" or "study" on why they are better? I been googling so any more help would be nice... |
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| zaggy |
I don't think you will ever find a good unbiased report.
Everybody has touched on points that are accurate in people perception...but missed one, marketing.
I've been in the car business 25 years so I have some first hand background on this mess. Let me give you an example.
Back in the mid 80's Toyota was selling the Corolla and Chevy the Nova. As you guys are no doubt aware they are for all intents the same car except for badges and some body lines...same assembly line for crying out loud.
The Corolla was marketed to educated buyers of higher incomes and sold very well...fine little car very few problems lots still on the road.
Chevy marketed the Nova as a cheap Chevy.
In the late 80's these things were starting to come in on trade.
The Corollas were almost always low mileage, clean well maintianed little cars, clean as a whistle. Owners telling us how they had never had a problem...really didn't want to trade in but needed a bigger car, truck whatever.
The Novas were almost always high mileage, never serviced, pounded to the ground...customer getting rid of the car cause it was lousy, always in the shop, cheap junk!
The Corolla is still a sales leader, the Nova is long gone....same car...different marketing.
When you really look at the modern domestic car they have good build quality and generally no more problems per 1000 than any of the imports, and very often cost many thousands less for the same class of car....Cavalier vs Civic as an example, but when something costs thousands less trim and quality of trim materials will not be the same...again example...for the price of a decent 4 dr Civic you can buy a pretty high line Buick...bigger car, more options and pretty near same quality overall...a lot better than a Cavalier that is in the Civics class but much cheaper.
Direct comparison is pretty tough when you go dollar for dollar.
That said I've always preferred Import Cars, not for quality or reliability, but because they are built to drive the way I drive, more of a drivers car.
Which is probly why most of you prefer them too.
Zag |
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| newaccorddriver |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
(the recent domestic efforts such as the SRT-4 and Cobalt/Redline SS might start change that now that they're stepping up to trump in the HP department - so at least in one area they are becoming more desirable.)
those 2 barely trump the S2000 in the HP department and its NA, but the main reason why i would ever want a SRT-4 or Colbalt SS is cause those engines dont have to go through too much stress to put out the power. but that been said, honda can also lower the compression of that engine and slap on a supercharger/turbocharger on it. but i dont think hondas ready for that move yet:dunno: (im talking about the supercharging/turbocharging part) |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by newaccorddriver
those 2 barely trump the S2000 in the HP department and its NA, but the main reason why i would ever want a SRT-4 or Colbalt SS
That is a totally unfair comparison. Why would you compare a $50k sports car to a $25-$30k economy car? My point was the SRT-4 and SS are trumping the Spec-Vs/RSXs/Celicas/Mazda 3s/Lancers/Civics, etc. within the same price range. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by zaggy
When you really look at the modern domestic car they have good build quality and generally no more problems per 1000 than any of the imports
"good" build quality perhaps, not necessarily excellent.
But the data suggests that domestics overall DO still have more problems per 1000 than the imports. I don't know how you can claim otherwise. :dunno:
quote:
but because they are built to drive the way I drive, more of a drivers car.
Which is probly why most of you prefer them too.
I do agree with that however.
Pontiac's ad campaign/slogan "Built for Drivers" is a bloody joke. |
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| newaccorddriver |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
That is a totally unfair comparison. Why would you compare a $50k sports car to a $25-$30k economy car? My point was the SRT-4 and SS are trumping the Spec-Vs/RSXs/Celicas/Mazda 3s/Lancers/Civics, etc. within the same price range.
ok... that is a bit unfair and very unbiased. but how about comparing engines then? how about a mazdaspeed6?
i should also add the cobalt ss doesnt trump the rax type s |
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| DomesticDrifter |
quote:
Originally posted by newaccorddriver
ok... that is a bit unfair and very unbiased. but how about comparing engines then? how about a mazdaspeed6?
i should also add the cobalt ss doesnt trump the rax type s
well the mazdaspeed6 isn't a production car yet, so it can't even been included in your argument. untill it is avaliable to the general public it is still just a "concept car". ad cobalt ss and redlines are consistantly throwing down anywhere between 180-190whp and similar torque numbers, which does surpass the rxs-s which are throwing down between 165-175whp. |
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| newaccorddriver |
quote:
Originally posted by DomesticDrifter
well the mazdaspeed6 isn't a production car yet
then how about their V6 models? or a V6 accord? or a V6 camry?
better yet, lets take the future of these cars into consideration. how long would a carefully driven rsx type-s, cobalt SS and SRT-4 last? although you would have to beat on the rsx engine to put out its power, you wnot need to if its carefully driven. the SRT-4 and SS are pretty new, so id like to see long term reliability. |
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| zaggy |
Hey Inzane
The reason I can say that there is an insignificant difference in problems is because I have had access to a lot of inside information over the years from various sources.
The one thing I have always congradulated the Import manufacturers on is how they handle problems. Because they have traditionally done it so well people rate them higher and ignore minor problems that are handled quickly and easily.
Domestic manufacturers on the other hand have (IMO) often ignored problems till it becomes a screaming contest or pissing match...leading people to pick on ever little issue from that time on.
By the way I'm not trying to dis Imports, I like them. I'm just trying to point out that all is not necessarily as it seems sometimes in the magazines and media. (IMHO)
I'm at the point where I suggest rather than just read about a particular make or model...go look at it and make up your own mind.
Zag |
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