| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by Cody D
I have no idea what igloo's have to do with this, and I don't think we are here to give out awards for most improved, I think this list is just a good way to see where you stand against others in Alberta.
Like I said my spelling sucks no need for a fag comment. And yes the list is good to see where you stand against others in Alberta not just the fastest 10. If that was the case we would all go by talons ect... and have a who's the best builder competition. |
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| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
Page 9
There is no sense of direction that I can see. Right now we have FWD's competing against RWD/AWD, All motor competing against Forced Induction and Nitrous. Any one of us can see which combination of the above is going to dominate and I think everybody who puts forth alot of effort in thier car and wants to compete deserve's some recognition from thier peers. It can be intimidating and disheartening to bring out your pride and joy only to know that you don't stand a chance of making the cutoff for the field because it is one huge field with no parity. The new participants are the future of our sport, any sport has different levels or leagues to achieve parity and fair exciting competition. I don't think a fwd all motor 4cyl up against a rwd/awd turbo 6 cylinder is fair or exciting.
Page 12
I would just like to see some more recognition for the all the competitors, including the all motor and fwd guys. I have no problem with the list whatsoever in it's current form, I would just like to see a better break down if possible into different catagories to get the new guys some more recognition. I don't see how it can be a bad thing, or why it would force you not to participate, it can only lead to growth of the sport.
:beer: |
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| Cody D |
quote:
Originally posted by se-i
Like I said my spelling sucks no need for a fag comment. And yes the list is good to see where you stand against others in Alberta not just the fastest 10. If that was the case we would all go by talons ect... and have a who's the best builder competition.
Don't take things so seriously, I could call Darryl a raving bastard here for dragging this thread out, but in the real world we'd still be acquaintances.
In summation, I say we leave it to ZFan since he seems to have it under control and let this thread die. |
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| Ron@Revolution |
Heres the deal!
Top Ten Fastest Imports
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 10 Fastest Rear/Awd's
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 10 Fastest Fwd's
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 10 Fastest NA's
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 5 Fastest Outlaw Imports
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. |
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| Cody D |
You forgot one:
Top 10 White Talons from Saskatchewan |
|
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| Adam |
quote:
Originally posted by Ron@Revolution
Heres the deal!
Top Ten Fastest Imports
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 10 Fastest Rear/Awd's
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 10 Fastest Fwd's
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 10 Fastest NA's
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Top 5 Fastest Outlaw Imports
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
I can live with that as long as 1 car can be on multiple lists.
Good going Ron...youre not such a fag anymore:bowdown: |
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| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by Adam
I can live with that as long as 1 car can be on multiple lists.
Good going Ron...youre not such a fag anymore:bowdown:
I think with this kinda list you can be in 3 outlaw FWD and fastest.
Im just saying that I know my car is never gonna be in the fastest import or outlaw but I can probily hang in with the FWD cars and it gives me and others something to shoot for witch makes the scene grow at the same time. |
|
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| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by se-i
Sorry I just dont know you say if Adam or somebody I know better would make a comment like thatI wouldnt care. Then I take it as a a joke. I didnt know if you takeing a shot at me or just kidding around
|
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| Lococoin |
| I like the idea of having different top 10 classes for different setups as Ron mentioned above. |
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| newred |
quote:
Originally posted by Lococoin
I like the idea of having different top 10 classes for different setups as Ron mentioned above.
What about Top Ten Slowest.................. Sorry just kidding, Than i might be on top....
Shit, i'm sorry again, back to the topic....
Maybe we should ask the other people of 780Tuners!! Let ask them ON General Chat what they think:rolleyes: |
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| 95IntegraRS |
| I think that is a list that can be enjoyed by all. I believe that your power adders should listed as well on the list. Add them in beside the name in brackets or something along those lines. Pump gas or not is impossible to enforce. I can go dump 100+ octane and crank the boost and how is anyone going to know. So I think thats a dead conversation in its own right. And tire choice also comes into play, but if you have beefed up your drivetrain enough to handle the abuse of slicks, then I think the dent in the wallet is a good enough handicap. Just my 2 cents. Let me know what you chumps think. |
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| Cody D |
I think how much you weigh should be put beside your time also. Adam is a big guy (over 200lbs), I've got quite an advantage over him (90lbs soaking wet), we want this to be fair right.
We should also put racing experience in there somewhere since a guy like Ron would be a better driver than me, I want a list where guys that suck at racing can compete.
Also I think we should have different lists for different displacements, 2.0L and under, 3.0L and under, and over 4.0L. Then sub-divide those lists into each of the lists that Ron put, example 2.0L AWD list, 2.0L FWD list, 2.0L N/A list. |
|
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| chris f |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Top Fuel runs include any run made at a track within their designated tracks, that's not any different than it would be to say that Alberta tracks are the only ones designated for this list.
To start it off, this is what I would suggest as guidelines:
1. Car must be registered and insured in Alberta.
2. Run must be made at an Alberta track.
And maybe:
3. Car must be driven to and from the track in race form.
Any race form at all is allowed provided you drive it there like that. If it comes on slicks, it races and leaves on slicks, etc. I know this one some people probably won't like but the way I see it, if you drive a street car to the track then change it into a non-street car... it's no longer a street car. Beside, just grab some street radials and forget about it.
So the car has to be driven to and from the track, eh. Well Darryl dont want to get you mad but you might never be on the list, seem s to me i rember the majority of your cars braking at the track.
With all the whining going on one thing i would like to add, the time must be backed up
dont matter if it ends up being in the class of Albertas fastest sub 3000lbs car on larger then 16'rims, 5 speeds or less, must have over half a tank of gas,castiron block only, 300cc injectors or less, 87 gas, 2.5" exhaust or less, factory cat, Engine running in closed loop, Copression ratio of 10:1 or less,must have open diff, no AWD. Max 3 sec. burnout, no water, must trap more then 15 sec and mph can not exseed 89.
Ya add that to the list, class #129.485
Street tires are for the street, pump gas is for the street, You want to race, you run race tires and race gas, you want to spend 4g's on a set of rims for your car then complain that you got beat only because the other guy had slicks? Dont come to a gun fight with a pea shooter.
And yes this is a rant, the list is fine, leave it alone |
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| DarrylBleau |
I've got nothing against someone posting up a rant, but I would at least expect that the ranting person have actually _read_ the topics first. It seems that you haven't, so allow me to re-iterate, so you won't have to click back and read. It's hard, I know.
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
So the car has to be driven to and from the track, eh. Well Darryl dont want to get you mad but you might never be on the list, seem s to me i rember the majority of your cars braking at the track.
As mentioned, the idea behind this is that the cars in this list are streetable. I wasn't thinking about people coming with their trailers from far away. The point is, and I think everyone agrees, if you wouldn't feel comfortable taking your race car from bud park down to the mcdonalds (even if you might have to swap out your slicks), it's not the kind of car this list is keeping track of.
And, as also previously mentioned, broken cars are part of racing, no question, and I'm not the first (or last) person to have their car break down at the track. That wasn't the intent of the 'drive to and from' guideline (that you can't break down). The intent of this, was, again, as I stated above. I'm not going to type it out again, because I think if you've missed it you can at least direct your gaze slightly upwards and read it over.
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
With all the whining going on one thing i would like to add, the time must be backed up
dont matter if it ends up being in the class of Albertas fastest sub 3000lbs car on larger then 16'rims, 5 speeds or less, must have over half a tank of gas,castiron block only, 300cc injectors or less, 87 gas, 2.5" exhaust or less, factory cat, Engine running in closed loop, Copression ratio of 10:1 or less,must have open diff, no AWD. Max 3 sec. burnout, no water, must trap more then 15 sec and mph can not exseed 89.
The only whining going on here is you and possibly Toby. I don't know if you want me to start teaching you english, but asking a question is not the same as complaining about something. The question was, on page 7, the 7th response down, and I'll cut and paste it here because I know you aren't going to want to actually read the thread: "should there be any thought given to specifying what times are eligible for submission?". Now, if you can come up with a convincing argument as to how that constitutes 'whining', I'd like to hear it.
And thanks for the dumb ass suggestion, but if you've been actually reading the thread, you'd notice that it's already been brought up that it's preferable for categories to stay to a minumum. Adam already gave a good example of what can happen when you get too stupid, so you're either quite late with the comment or just didn't bother to read everything. But hey, thanks for coming out.
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
Street tires are for the street, pump gas is for the street, You want to race, you run race tires and race gas, you want to spend 4g's on a set of rims for your car then complain that you got beat only because the other guy had slicks? Dont come to a gun fight with a pea shooter.
And yes this is a rant, the list is fine, leave it alone
Again, if you were reading (and understanding as well, I suppose) you might have picked up on that this isn't a no holds barred list, because if it was, no one on it would be anyplace close to the top. So obviously there are some exclusions, the only question is to define what they are. To put it more plainly, with the logic in your argument, if you complain that someone beat you in their rail car, it's your fault because you brought a pea shooter to a gun fight.
Or to put it another way, if, as you say, you want to race, you run race tires and race gas and build a race car that comes on a trailer and hell while we at it make it long and straight and not able to turn and run it on nitro-methane and throw some old school muscle on there. Because if you're going to do something, do it all out, hell, 'chris f' said so himself. Anything less than a full blown drag rail is just stupid.
...
You see, you have to draw the line someplace, the only question is where.
And yes, this is a rant, against people who like to post without bothering to read and understand first and just like to come out looking like a tough guy with thier ignorance. If you really want the whining to quit, then quit whining with your uninformed posts. |
|
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Cody D
I think how much you weigh should be put beside your time also. Adam is a big guy (over 200lbs), I've got quite an advantage over him (90lbs soaking wet), we want this to be fair right.
We should also put racing experience in there somewhere since a guy like Ron would be a better driver than me, I want a list where guys that suck at racing can compete.
Also I think we should have different lists for different displacements, 2.0L and under, 3.0L and under, and over 4.0L. Then sub-divide those lists into each of the lists that Ron put, example 2.0L AWD list, 2.0L FWD list, 2.0L N/A list.
Point well taken I think. I don't think there any reason to list anything beside the time except the type of car, driver/company, and possibly track.
And I'm not sure if you're serious about the sub division but I think you're being sarcastic, so yeah, like already said, if there are going to be categories they should be kept to a bare minimum. I like Ron's list except for the mix of induction and drivetrain. I think something like this would make more sense:
Top10ANY
Top10AWD
Top10RWD
Top10FWD
With the 'ANY' list being made of the top 10 times from the bottom 3. It's simple enough to avoid arguments (I don't think anyone is going to claim your civic is RWD, for example) and still gives some breakdown. |
|
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by 95IntegraRS
[B]I think that is a list that can be enjoyed by all. I believe that your power adders should listed as well on the list. Add them in beside the name in brackets or something along those lines. Pump gas or not is impossible to enforce. I can go dump 100+ octane and crank the boost and how is anyone going to know.
By the way the exhaust smells. Race gas is perfumed. |
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| Lococoin |
Since this list is for the members of 780tuners/beyond. Why dont we post up some of the suggestions hammered out over the last 8 or so pages and put them in a poll. That way the members can decide what they would like to see for a faster car list.
:dunno: |
|
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| Z_Fan |
quote:
Originally posted by Lococoin
Since this list is for the members of 780tuners/beyond. Why dont we post up some of the suggestions hammered out over the last 8 or so pages and put them in a poll. That way the members can decide what they would like to see for a faster car list.:dunno:
I've been thinking about this a lot. [A poll of some kind.]
The trouble IMO is simply that the poll results will reflect individual bias that are not necessarily in the best interest of overall competition. In addition, there isn't enough control or restriction on who is voting. [People that have no care about the list would be able to vote]. To have a poll is one thing, to act upon its results is something completely different and not necessarily a good plan of action.
Our country voted to put the Liberals in power. We've never been raped so badly by a government [financially] in Canadian history. So, well, the common vote really isn't worth much IMO and the voters may just be stupid enough to put them BACK into power. Go figure. Polls and/or voting isn't going to solve all of the complex issues here...ultimately, we've just got to decide and go with it.
I don't have an AWD vehicle, so perhaps I'd be just fine if we excluded them all together. But that isn't fair, yet if it came to a vote because I was presented with the option, I might just decide it is to my advantage to get rid of them AWD's. You get the idea. My car runs very well on street legal radial tires, so I may be inclined to vote to eliminate anyone who has a non DOT drag tire or a slick. Again, not condusive to broadening competition.
But, otherwise, aren't polls just a hoot? :p |
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| Lococoin |
ya i realize all the flaws to do with a poll but i thought it might be a good idea to give a general indication as to what people want. Thats not saying we have to go with whatever the poll says, but it would at least give us some sort of clue what the majority of people would like to see.
I drag race and have remained a lurker up till now, and im sure there are other lurkers out there that might be interested in some of the ideas that have came out of this thread. I still figure the poll idea would be the easiest to get their opinions out there to give us a rough idea of what people are interested in.
As for my personal opinion :
I really do like the idea of having sub classes to give recognition to the cars that wouldnt otherwise make the list. Taking a stock 17-18 second car and making it a 13 second car takes a lot of work and money. I would love to see those people recognized for their hard work, and think a subclass is the way to do just that since just having a top 10 list is too competitive for them to even be recognized. |
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| Insomniac |
| glad i don't have to take care of this list anymore :D |
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| Z_Fan |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
glad i don't have to take care of this list anymore :D
:cool: No doubt.
Ahhh, the relative silence in this thread over the last couple days has been quite nice. :p
Alright, the first thing to address is the cars that are considered eligible. I know there is never going to be complete consensus on this topic.
Despite the fact that major controversy finds a home in the very definition of what a Sport Compact is, my goal is not to attempt to redefine or expand what it entails. I've heard people say, "we all KNOW what cars fit this class." And to some degree there is truth to that, we generally do know as it has been defined to us by Sport Compact, Import sites & magazines, as well as automakers labelling their products in the class. Honestly, we've no business attempting to formulate a list that would trump what has been acceptable for a very long time. Especially not if we expect the list to truly represent Sport Compacts / Imports. In other words, we leave well enough alone. Simplicity.
OK - SO I NEED YOUR HELP.
The first order of business then is helping me in rounding out this list of eligible cars. Now, I didn't just grab these out of thin air. The list includes many cars which are simply fast out of the box. This is not out of bias towards such cars - it is merely following what has been deemed acceptable in the past.
As it pertains to earlier information and disagreement presented in this thread, cars such as the Acura NSX, Supra TT, 300ZX TT, RX-7 TT, etc are all eligible as they have been in the past. Cars such as the Mustang, Camero, Grand National, etc, are not eligible as they have not been in the past.
You might wish to lobby for those bodies to be eligible. I figure don't waste your time on it. It's not that I am close-minded or unfair. It is simply that historically those bodies have not been considered part of the SCC / Import element. As such, we will continue to exlude them from the list. If the NHRA feels compelled to exclude them from competing in the Sport Compact division of the NHRA, that is good enough for me. It is good enough for this list and preserves the integrity of what we are intending to represent.
Now, here is the list that I have started. Please feel free to let me know any additions you may have to list so that we can establish a more complete list. Undoubtedly additions will be required. So, lets take a few moments and examine the list...and not get too excited if something isn't currently appearing, or if something is present that should not be.
Acura: Integra, Legend, Vigor, CL, TL, NSX, RSX, TSX
Audi: A4, TT
BMW: 3 Series, Z3, Z4, MINI
Chevrolet/Pontiac: Cavalier, Grand Am, Sunfire, Fiero, Cobalt
Chrysler/Plymouth: Avenger/Sebring, Cirrus/Stratus, Laser, Neon, Omni/Horizon, Stealth, Daytona
Datsun/Nissan: 200sx, 240sx, 210/510/610/710, Z-Car (240/260/280/300), 350z, Skyline, Altima, Sentra, Silvia, Pulsar, NX
Eagle: Talon
Ford/Mercury: Contour, Cougar [99-up], Focus, Escort, Probe, Lynx, Mystique, Tracer
Geo: Metro, Storm, Prizm
Honda: Accord, Civic, CRX, Del Sol, Insight, Prelude, S2000
Hyundai: Accent, Elantra, Excel, Tiburon
Infiniti: G Series
Isuzu: I-Mark, Impulse, Stylus
Mazda: Cosmo, 323, 626, RX-3, RX-4, RX-7, RX-8, R100, Protege, Mazda 6, Miata, MP3, MX6
Mercedes: C-class, SLK, CLK
Mitsubishi: Evolution, 3000GT, Lancer, Eclipse, Mirage
Oldsmobile: Achieva, Alero
Saturn: Ion, SC, SL, SW
Subaru: Legacy, Impreza, WRX
Toyota: Aristo, Altezza, Camry, Celica, Corolla, Echo, Supra, Matrix, MR2, Prius, Solara, Starlet, Tercel
Volkswagon: Beetle, Cabriolet, Corrado, Golf/GTi, Jetta, Passat, Rabbit, Scirocco
Volvo: S40, S70, S80, C70
Discuss. |
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| 95IntegraRS |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
By the way the exhaust smells. Race gas is perfumed.
Well, you can walk around smelling everyone's exhaust gases if you so prefer Blaine. I think you might be a little woozy by the end of the day though. :thumbup: |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Z_Fan
Mazda: 323, 626, RX-3, RX-4, RX-7, RX-8, R100, Protege, Mazda 6
Cosmo?
And for completeness you might want to list the plymouth laser (or just list Diamond Star Motors).
Otherwise, I think it's a good list. I suppose making a list like this eliminates any sort of confusion, and if there are any future 'hopefulls' (new GTR, perhaps) they could be added on a case by case basis. |
|
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by 95IntegraRS
Well, you can walk around smelling everyone's exhaust gases if you so prefer Blaine. I think you might be a little woozy by the end of the day though. :thumbup:
Trust me, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from the start and end of the day. :) |
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| Nightstalker |
quote:
Originally posted by Z_Fan
:cool: No doubt.
Ahhh, the relative silence in this thread over the last couple days has been quite nice. :p
Alright, the first thing to address is the cars that are considered eligible. I know there is never going to be complete consensus on this topic.
Despite the fact that major controversy finds a home in the very definition of what a Sport Compact is, my goal is not to attempt to redefine or expand what it entails. I've heard people say, "we all KNOW what cars fit this class." And to some degree there is truth to that, we generally do know as it has been defined to us by Sport Compact, Import sites & magazines, as well as automakers labelling their products in the class. Honestly, we've no business attempting to formulate a list that would trump what has been acceptable for a very long time. Especially not if we expect the list to truly represent Sport Compacts / Imports. In other words, we leave well enough alone. Simplicity.
OK - SO I NEED YOUR HELP.
The first order of business then is helping me in rounding out this list of eligible cars. Now, I didn't just grab these out of thin air. The list includes many cars which are simply fast out of the box. This is not out of bias towards such cars - it is merely following what has been deemed acceptable in the past.
As it pertains to earlier information and disagreement presented in this thread, cars such as the Acura NSX, Supra TT, 300ZX TT, RX-7 TT, etc are all eligible as they have been in the past. Cars such as the Mustang, Camero, Grand National, etc, are not eligible as they have not been in the past.
You might wish to lobby for those bodies to be eligible. I figure don't waste your time on it. It's not that I am close-minded or unfair. It is simply that historically those bodies have not been considered part of the SCC / Import element. As such, we will continue to exlude them from the list. If the NHRA feels compelled to exclude them from competing in the Sport Compact division of the NHRA, that is good enough for me. It is good enough for this list and preserves the integrity of what we are intending to represent.
Now, here is the list that I have started. Please feel free to let me know any additions you may have to list so that we can establish a more complete list. Undoubtedly additions will be required. So, lets take a few moments and examine the list...and not get too excited if something isn't currently appearing, or if something is present that should not be.
Acura: Integra, Legend, Vigor, CL, TL, NSX, RSX, TSX
Audi: A4, TT
BMW: 3 Series, Z3, Z4, MINI
Chevrolet/Pontiac: Cavalier, Grand Am, Sunfire, Fiero, Cobalt
Chrysler/Plymouth: Avenger/Sebring, Cirrus/Stratus, Laser, Neon, Omni/Horizon, Stealth, Daytona
Datsun/Nissan: 200sx, 240sx, 210/510/610/710, Z-Car (240/260/280/300), 350z, Skyline, Altima, Sentra, Silvia, Pulsar, NX
Eagle: Talon
Ford/Mercury: Contour, Cougar [99-up], Focus, Escort, Probe, Lynx, Mystique, Tracer
Geo: Metro, Storm, Prizm
Honda: Accord, Civic, CRX, Del Sol, Insight, Predlude, S2000
Hyundai: Accent, Elantra, Excel, Tiburon
Infiniti: G Series
Isuzu: I-Mark, Impulse, Stylus
Mazda: 323, 626, RX-3, RX-4, RX-7, RX-8, R100, Protege, Mazda 6, Miata, MP3, MX6
Mercedes: C-class, SLK, CLK
Mitsubishi: Evolution, 3000GT, Lancer, Eclipse, Mirage
Oldsmobile: Achieva, Alero
Saturn: Ion, SC, SL, SW
Subaru: Legacy, Impreza, WRX
Toyota: Aristo, Altezza, Camry, Celica, Corolla, Echo, Supra, Matrix, MR2, Prius, Solara, Starlet, Tercel
Volkswagon: Beetle, Cabriolet, Corrado, Golf/GTi, Jetta, Passat, Rabbit, Scirocco
Volvo: S40, S70, S80, C70
Discuss.
You spelled Prelude wrong. :D |
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| Z_Fan |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Cosmo?
And for completeness you might want to list the plymouth laser (or just list Diamond Star Motors).
Otherwise, I think it's a good list. I suppose making a list like this eliminates any sort of confusion, and if there are any future 'hopefulls' (new GTR, perhaps) they could be added on a case by case basis.
Well, I'm not sure we're gonna see any Cosmo's out there. LOL. But yeah, it would be OK. So I will put it on the list. <smile>
The laser is on the list already. Under plymouth.
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
You spelled Prelude wrong. :D
Fixed that now. |
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| Praylewd powr |
Well, this is the first time I looked at this thread in a while! Wow...
I strongly agree with Rons post about classes.....but also agree that a car should be able to fit into more than one list.
D
(it has my vote) |
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| m3the01 |
Guys a friend just made me aware of this thread. Im not looking to get on any lists or show my car off. The scene is small and you think you know about the car, however the car has been in edmonton for over 5 years and you still dont know the car. I dont go out to the tracks often and your right maybe the timer was tripping, im not really interested in drag events. Only reason i went to the track was so a good friend of mine would stop giving me a hardtime and finally ran it down the track again.
Everyone knows running track cars is a lot of money, parts breaking, cocky people(so many have made there vioces known on this thread). Just not my playing ground! Hats off to all you, its a tough build. A reliable drag car.
I build a car for myself and good friends to have fun. Ive done a few,
Anyway believe what you will,
heres a couple pics of the car.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190885
Theres some pics in the post
As for the setup, its private very few know it. All the turbo's are from FP, but i will not go into that. Cant remember the guy but he thought he knew Robert at FP and made some bullshit claim that i was claiming to have some secret turbo. The facts of the discussion were, now this was 3 years ago, i had a turbo that had not been announced yet because Robert was getting rid of old 3055 stock and he sold me one of the new 3052's early and asked me not to let people know about it. Just say it was custom, he didnt want to get stuck with old stock of the 3055's. I think the guys name from NACDSM was Darryl or darrin or something. I cant say forsure so i left that forum because of all of there talk and claims. Basically theres always some guy who thinks he knows more and just because he cant do something he says its impossible and must be a lie.
Well heres the pics, have you ever seen it? Most likely not. As for what mods, im not going to tell. If you see me on the street i will give you a little demo,
If anyone is going to call me out go ahead i could care less. The turbo, gas and a couple other mods have been removed because i drive it as a street car in the summer with track events with the vette club and others. Not exactly sure what its making now, but boost is at 23PSI on a fully built 2.4L and a bunch of other crap on good old 91octane. Been running great for the last 2 years on the new engine. Show me another eclipse at this level and i will tip my hat and say good job. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
Im not looking to get on any lists
your right maybe the timer was tripping, im not really interested in drag events.
finally ran it down the track again.
Anyway believe what you will,
The turbo, gas and a couple other mods have been removed because i drive it as a street car
So you're the guy people were talking about 10-11 pages back (the 2G DSM that supposedly ran 10's at Bud Park)?
You have not presented a slip, there's no video clip of the run, and now you're saying the mods have been removed from the car. (how convenient)
Why did you even bother responding to this thread? :dunno: |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by newred
Shit, this person sound like that poor old guy named Rodger.
(RIP)
quote:
Originally posted by 95IntegraRS
Roger.. is he dead?
No one responded to this last month. What's the scoop? Did we lose another 780 member? |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
All the turbo's are from FP, but i will not go into that.
But.... then... you did. :)
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
Cant remember the guy but he thought he knew Robert at FP and made some bullshit claim that i was claiming to have some secret turbo. The facts of the discussion were, now this was 3 years ago, i had a turbo that had not been announced yet because Robert was getting rid of old 3055 stock and he sold me one of the new 3052's early and asked me not to let people know about it. Just say it was custom, he didnt want to get stuck with old stock of the 3055's. I think the guys name from NACDSM was Darryl or darrin or something. I cant say forsure so i left that forum because of all of there talk and claims. Basically theres always some guy who thinks he knows more and just because he cant do something he says its impossible and must be a lie.
Just for the sake of history, it wasn't me. Darin maybe, or Blaine, I'm not sure. This is the first I've ever heard of it. I'm sure a NACDSM search would reveal the truth but I don't really care. I just wanted to say it wasn't me. As for whether the turbo is 'special', who cares. It's just an air pump, if it works as expected, sweet. There's a lot more to a car than just the turbo :)
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
Not exactly sure what its making now, but boost is at 23PSI on a fully built 2.4L and a bunch of other crap on good old 91octane. Been running great for the last 2 years on the new engine. Show me another eclipse at this level and i will tip my hat and say good job.
Well, if you're running 23psi on 91 I'd say your intake must be smaller than more drag cars. (Injested air calculations include volume as well as pressure, remember). So it's hard to say, but I've been pushing the pump gas threshold for years now and recently on a 2.4 so I would assume you'd be running approximately the same as me, somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 crank horse. I'll let you know for sure when the dyno is assembled. For that matter, swing your car by and strap it down, then you won't have to guess either :) |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
I'll let you know for sure when the dyno is assembled.
swing your car by and strap it down,
You're going to have an AWD dyno? (DynoJet, Dynopack, or other?) And where is it going to be located? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
No one responded to this last month. What's the scoop? Did we lose another 780 member?
Roger and his car are still alive and well.
He just prefer's to take his kids to the circus rather than log onto this circus. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Just for the sake of history, it wasn't me. Darin maybe, or Blaine, I'm not sure. This is the first I've ever heard of it. I'm sure a NACDSM search would reveal the truth but I don't really care.
It was Darin I believe, you can check out the "10 second DSM" thread that Cody created shortly after Steve's car was brought up in this thread if you are at all curious. There is a link to the OLD thread there. |
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| m3the01 |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
But.... then... you did. :)
Just for the sake of history, it wasn't me. Darin maybe, or Blaine, I'm not sure. This is the first I've ever heard of it. I'm sure a NACDSM search would reveal the truth but I don't really care. I just wanted to say it wasn't me. As for whether the turbo is 'special', who cares. It's just an air pump, if it works as expected, sweet. There's a lot more to a car than just the turbo :)
Well, if you're running 23psi on 91 I'd say your intake must be smaller than more drag cars. (Injested air calculations include volume as well as pressure, remember). So it's hard to say, but I've been pushing the pump gas threshold for years now and recently on a 2.4 so I would assume you'd be running approximately the same as me, somewhere in the neighborhood of 450 crank horse. I'll let you know for sure when the dyno is assembled. For that matter, swing your car by and strap it down, then you won't have to guess either :)
I was simply saying i was not going to get into 'what turbo i ran with'; im back to the FP-3052 for daily driving. Its the best turbo i came across for the 2.4L. As for the intake, 4inch and blitz SS sus. I have to take a look at logs to know exactly what type of airflow she was pushin.
As for hp, i know for a fact its more then 450crank. Considering walking on a viper and Z06 is a common in this car. As for hp, im guessing in the 550ish range. I will know forsure next summer as a new AWD is arriving at a new shop soon to open. Basically for hp, when i first bought the car with nothing in it i through in a blitz power id. The car put down around 165AWHP which is exactly what it should. On the old engine the most i got it up to was 320awhp and now im reading 435-445AWHP on the new engine which is where i expected it to be considering the mods. Remember theres many runs out there of the fp-3052 on 2.0L at 27PSI pushing 550HP. A good friends, best friend, has a 2002 porsche x50 and has gone for countless rides n the x50 he was blown away by the eclipse. We didnt have time to race last year because of mechanical problems late october with a new oil pressure gauge:) i know i know over torqued it cracked the housing.
But its going to be real nice to see a couple shops in edmonton having awd dynos. Very excited to get the dyno numbers.
As for inzane,
please how old are u? If people are going to talk i have a right to respond. Im not sure if it was you or not but someone stated the car didnt exist. Its a fact the car has existed for a number of year, the pictures prove this. The only thing that was changed from the car was turbo, race gas(everyone knows i hate to run this), settings and the wheels.
This is part of the reason i dont go to drag events, damn i ran 13.59 in the first LS/vtec in edmonton back in 1999 and everyone was trying to tell me i was spraying. A bunch of people almost got into a fight, its like ,please shit just isnt worth it. I dont have the best attitude to people in the first place when they are calling me a liar i kinda loose my kool. I have successful career so i dont feel like putting myself in situations where i could ruin my life because of some stupid shit talking out his ass. Ive seen to many friends go to jail because of people like this. If i brought friends there the same junk would happen even if i didnt want it to. Were a close bunch of guys and dont take anyone calling any of us out. Thats why everyone except me has been to court for assault, cause i learnt a long time ago if you put yourself in a situation which you know can turn ugly dont be in that situation in the first place. Its posts like this that make me remember why i dont go.Plus what fun is it to run down the track in a straight line:) Some like it i dont,
Trust me the older guys in the porsche club and the vette clubs are real kool on open event days. Theres no talking trash just respecting each others cars and trying to learn from each other to better the comp. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
As for inzane, please how old are u?
31, married, professional.
quote:
If people are going to talk i have a right to respond.
Absolutely. But there's merit in being selective as to how and when you choose to. You might've been better off not responding in this thread as you have not brought anything to the table here to help your cause. Left alone this sub-topic would die and people would eventually forget about you & your car. Then you could surprise them the next season!
quote:
I'm not sure if it was you or not but someone stated the car didnt exist.
I was one of 10-20 people that were doubting the validity of the claimed run at bud park. In the absence of proof I, like anyone else here, have that right. I did not question the existence of the car itself, IIRC.
quote:
A bunch of people almost got into a fight, its like ,please shit just isnt worth it.
That's stating the obvious.
quote:
I dont have the best attitude to people in the first place when they are calling me a liar i kinda loose my kool.
That's starting to show already.
quote:
I have successful career so i dont feel like putting myself in situations where i could ruin my life because of some stupid shit talking out his ass.
That's a wise thing to do of course. But I'm amused at how any mere "shit talking" about cars could put someone anywhere close to ruining their life. Have you heard of self control and maturity? This is just an internet forum, and people talk smack on here everyday. That's just par for the course.
quote:
I've seen too many friends go to jail because of people like this. Thats why everyone except me has been to court for assault,
Interesting bunch of people you must hang out with. I can't name a single friend of mine off the top of my head over the last 15 years that has ever gone to jail, for anything. Or ever even gone to court for something stupid like "assult".
quote:
cause i learnt a long time ago if you put yourself in a situation which you know can turn ugly dont be in that situation in the first place.
Here's another word: Accountability. Sounds like you're too eager to blame a situation, and not your actions, or those of your friends.
quote:
Its posts like this that make me remember why i dont go.
Ha. You thought this was good? Stick around on 780 more often. You haven't even begun to see it. This thread has been relatively tame.
quote:
Theres no talking trash just respecting each others cars and trying to learn from each other to better the comp.
There's a difference between disrespecting and doubting. In order to get respect you have to earn it first. People can't disrespect what they don't know about, but they can certainly doubt what they haven't seen. You haven't earned any respect yet here with this community apparently, and you sound bitter about that. But perhaps its by your own admission that you haven't been active in the scene much that a lot of people don't know about you or your car. But that is your choice.
I'm sorry if this post pissed you off. But hey, what can you do? People talk smack here all the time, everyday, and people get called on stuff all the time. Sometimes they're justified, sometimes not. But generally speaking its better not to talk at all unless you can walk it too. The 2005 season is over (as are previous years). Hopefully our whole scene and community can move on and look forward to bigger and better things this coming season. |
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| Z_Fan |
Well, now that m3the01 is alive and posting in the thread...
Even though your slip would be too late, I'd post it up anyhow just so everyone knows how fast your car is ... and you can easily get everyone to STFU.
For what it is worth, I'm in the "I doubt it" camp about your time. Especially based on your claimed horsepower. But hey, make me a believer.
Describing what is in your car, or done to your car, etc isn't going to impress anyone. Show us a video of your pass and I'm sure everyone will get really quiet.
Or, post your timeslip. If you post the 10.2 @ 141 slip no one will doubt your cars ability and/or your personal credibility. ;)
I'd post it up just so everyone can drool. |
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| m3the01 |
I have no video and have never claimed too. As for hp during the run try a lot more then 550hp thats daily driving on pump, try around 29PSI, race gas, on a 2.4L so in the 600 range but not totally sure. I have a box of car junk i keep, important info, times and receipts for insurance reasons i will go through. I was meaning to get a post up on another forum, dsmlink for awhile to show the guys how everything turned out. Understand that when you rent a track and your with a bunch of guys your not getting the slip everytime, your just being praised by others. Take the first run which was in the 11's, my buddy was saying told you so. Then 5 runs later were seeing the time drop from everyone.
Bye for now, |
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| m3the01 |
inzane i think you can read your prior post and see you didnt really sound like a 31 year fella. I myself am 24 years old, all my best friends are university graduates like myself and respectable individuals with large company in edmonton. This doesnt mean there bad people!
I didnt post the slip because i never requested this. Ive already brought more attention to the car then i want. Some other person posted out of a private conversation i had with revolution motorsports.
As always stated, i never made this claim on the forum because of these types of attitudes. Secondly im not in to drag racing, ask anyone whos met me. I dont do what i do for the envy of others i do it for myself and close friends. Ive built civics, nsx's, porsches and a eclipse. Luv them all, just please get it out of your head that your the fastest. Theres always someone faster!
Im done with this,
Talk shit all you want, |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
inzane i think you can read your prior post and see you didnt really sound like a 31 year fella.
Ok, lets see:
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
So you're the guy people were talking about 10-11 pages back (the 2G DSM that supposedly ran 10's at Bud Park)?
Hmmm... This was mostly a rhetorical question. A yes would have sufficed, or nothing at all.
quote:
You have not presented a slip, there's no video clip of the run, and now you're saying the mods have been removed from the car. (how convenient)
I simply stated the facts, as I saw them, here. I probably echoed the thoughts of many others here in this thread that remained silent.
quote:
Why did you even bother responding to this thread? :dunno:
Simple honest question. (which you later answered)
I fail to see where I sounded immature or young in any part of that previous post. :dunno:
quote:
all my best friends are university graduates like myself and respectable individuals with large company in edmonton.
So they are well educated and gainfully employed. That doesn't automatically mean they are respectable. Generally speaking respectable people don't act or behave in a way that gets them thrown in jail or charged for assult. By your own words earlier you made it sound like this was a common occurrence, not a rare accident.
quote:
This doesnt mean there bad people!
No one said anyone was a "bad" person. A person can be immature, irresponsible, lacking self control and not very accountable, and that still doesn't mean that person is bad by nature.
quote:
Ive already brought more attention to the car then i want.
As always stated, i never made this claim on the forum because of these types of attitudes.
Im done with this,
Fair enough. I suggest we all drop the subject of your car and its capabilities. Done. |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
You're going to have an AWD dyno? (DynoJet, Dynopack, or other?) And where is it going to be located?
Yes, in about a week or two, hopefully. Seems contractors are difficult people to nail down to a schedule. The shop was supposed to be ready Dec 1, 2005.
We went all out and spent the money to get a Mustang. Dynapack (or Dynepack, whatever) tried hard to sway us but the Mustang is a better machine by far. But I guess you get what you pay for. Dynojet never entered the realm of possibility... static inertia is not, how do the kids say it these days, 'FTW'.
The shop is is in northwest Edmonton. |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
As for hp, i know for a fact its more then 450crank. Considering walking on a viper and Z06 is a common in this car. As for hp, im guessing in the 550ish range. I will know forsure next summer as a new AWD is arriving at a new shop soon to open.
You might be surprised. 450 crank is nothing to sneeze at though, more than enough to walk a viper or Z06. But for sure, no point in guessing when you can know for certain.
For comparision, here's a graph of my car on the 2.0L:
But that was on 118, about 30psi on a locomotive turbo. That's looking at something like 600-650 crank. To do the same thing on pump would be near impossible. I'm not saying you're lying or anything, as I know you are guessing, I'm just saying that it's probably not realistic to expect a graph like that on pump gas alone. Water injected, on a perfect tune, maybe. It's just physics, in the end. But please prove me wrong, I'd love to see it (not being sarcastic). I'm all about pump gas power as anyone here would tell you :).
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
But its going to be real nice to see a couple shops in edmonton having awd dynos.
You're welcome. I have doubts on the 'couple' though. Everyone and their dog has been 'getting one real soon' for years now. This one actually exists:
http://www.nacdsm.org/gallery/v/Darryl_1/awddyno/ |
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| NTM |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Dynojet never entered the realm of possibility... static inertia is not, how do the kids say it these days, 'FTW'.
Thought you could get a dynojet with a brake package for loading ?
I know of one for sure (not awd) in edmonton.
I didn't bother with the loading setup when I ran on it though. |
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| Z_Fan |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
I didnt post the slip because i never requested this. Ive already brought more attention to the car then i want.
This is actually a very good - very valid point. It is something that I had concerns with about the list with respect to some opinions voiced earlier this year about just adding cars to the list when passes were witnessed and/or videotaped by third parties. There may be cars running that are very fast, and want nothing to do with appearing on the list.
That's why the current list didn't accept any submissions that didn't come as a direct result of requests from the owner/driver. [ie, no 3rd party submissions] There had been some discussion about simply putting fast passes onto the list as they occurred. But that's not a good plan at all IMO and won't be part of the next years list either.
Basically, if I run a 10 second pass in my car, I might just not want to appear on this or any other list of fast passes. I could see how some one would get very upset if they did a fast pass and then one day they see their cars specifications, times, etc posted on an Internet forum.
There are likely many people with very fast cars who do not wish to draw any attention to their vehicles. Fair enough. |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by NTM
Thought you could get a dynojet with a brake package for loading ?
I know of one for sure (not awd) in edmonton.
I didn't bother with the loading setup when I ran on it though.
Right, you can, but it's not quite the same as steady state tuning. The problem is the drum has Xlbs of inertia, so if the car that you are putting on the dyno weighs less than X, no amount of 'brake' is going to help. In any event, yes a dynojet can emulate this type of tune somewhat but it's never going to do infinite variable loading like the mustang. There's a lot more reasons to go mustang over their competitors but I think I'm getting way beyond the topic here so I'll digress. Suffice it to say that we left no stone unturned while we researched a dyno manufacturer :).
Speaking of topic... uh... can we include dyno 1/4 run timeslips? The mustang let's you simulate a 1/4 mile run, complete with tree and all. Ok it's a poor excuse to be on topic. I don't really want to be able to post dyno 1/4 timeslips :). (it's a JOKE, don't take it seriously). |
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| Ron@Revolution |
quote:
Originally posted by m3the01
I have no video and have never claimed too. As for hp during the run try a lot more then 550hp thats daily driving on pump, try around 29PSI, race gas, on a 2.4L so in the 600 range but not totally sure. I have a box of car junk i keep, important info, times and receipts for insurance reasons i will go through. I was meaning to get a post up on another forum, dsmlink for awhile to show the guys how everything turned out. Understand that when you rent a track and your with a bunch of guys your not getting the slip everytime, your just being praised by others. Take the first run which was in the 11's, my buddy was saying told you so. Then 5 runs later were seeing the time drop from everyone.
Bye for now,
When ever I have been to a private track rental I still got a slip everytime?:confused: |
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| m3the01 |
When we wanted the slip we got them. When we didnt, we didnt.
As for the dyno jet, what model is that. Did you goto the mustang dyno jet camp? He had to switch locations because the noise involved would violate regulations where the previous shop was going to open, near white ave. My buddy did, hes approved for the loans needed to start the shop but needed a little more for the a new location then expected.
Its going to be a great new year, two shops in alberta with AWD dynos. |
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| Insomniac |
| You should add a top 10 dyno queen list. Things REALLY get complicated then since there is such a huge variance in power readings between different brands of dynos, and there are correction factors, etc. |
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| m3the01 |
| There both mustang dyno's which is nice. |
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| Ron@Revolution |
| Why not also have a spot on the list for the highest Mph? |
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|
| chris f |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Yes, in about a week or two, hopefully. Seems contractors are difficult people to nail down to a schedule. The shop was supposed to be ready Dec 1, 2005.
We went all out and spent the money to get a Mustang. Dynapack (or Dynepack, whatever) tried hard to sway us but the Mustang is a better machine by far. But I guess you get what you pay for. Dynojet never entered the realm of possibility... static inertia is not, how do the kids say it these days, 'FTW'.
The shop is is in northwest Edmonton.
I know that dyno jet has the load option and AWD, What was so diffrent about that compaired to the mustang? |
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| mwdguy |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
I know that dyno jet has the load option and AWD, What was so diffrent about that compaired to the mustang?
MD's load differently giving you truer numbers |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by mwdguy
MD's load differently giving you truer numbers
*truer* being defined as what? :dunno: Depends on your frame of reference. |
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| chris f |
| Wich model did you go with? |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
Wich model did you go with?
MD-AWD-500-DE
'Truer' load means as near to actual road conditions as you can get. It takes into account the aerodynamic drag of your car and it's weight and current speed. The rollers are connected front and rear by a transmission so there is no strange torque splitting going on. I can go on and on but really we should start a new forum for it. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
'Truer' load means as near to actual road conditions as you can get. It takes into account the aerodynamic drag of your car and it's weight and current speed.
Truer means whatever a person wants it to mean. What you've described at least partially explains why Mustang dynos typically read a lower number than the same car on a dynojet, because AFAIK a dynojet is only accounting for drivetrain loss (not the other additional losses you mentioned).
It just depends what you want your baseline and frame of reference to be. If you start off dynoing on a dynojet, add a mod and want to see your incremental change, you might as well stick with a dynojet for your *after* pulls as well. Likewise if you started out with a Mustang dyno. Or if you are comparing with a buddy's car somewhere. Use whatever he used. Apples to apples. |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Truer means whatever a person wants it to mean.
Well, no, this isn't one of those cases where it's an opinion type of definition, cars are made to run on roads, if a dyno gives results closer to that activity (running on a road) it's 'truer' (as in, more true to the reality of what you are measuring), no personal take on the matter required.
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
It just depends what you want your baseline and frame of reference to be. If you start off dynoing on a dynojet, add a mod and want to see your incremental change, you might as well stick with a dynojet for your *after* pulls as well. Likewise if you started out with a Mustang dyno. Or if you are comparing with a buddy's car somewhere. Use whatever he used. Apples to apples.
Of course. But this is a separate idea from the load being 'truer' on one dyno compared to another. |
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| Ron@Revolution |
| What the hell does this dyno shit have to due with the topic at hand? Back on topic please we already have how many pages of shit to sort through on this thread.:blink: |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
Well, no, this isn't one of those cases where it's an opinion type of definition, cars are made to run on roads, if a dyno gives results closer to that activity (running on a road) it's 'truer' (as in, more true to the reality of what you are measuring), no personal take on the matter required.
I disagree. To some, "truer" might mean as close to brake horsepower as possible. I don't necessarily agree with that interpretation either. |
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| Z_Fan |
I agree that an AWD dyno or dyno thread would be a good idea.
__________________________________________________
Since no one has really added anything to the list of eligible vehicles, we'll proceed onwards now.
For the purpose of the immediate discussion which will surely follow, these requirements pertain to a list of the top 10 fastest SCC / imports only - and not any other sub-list which may or may not arise out of this discussion. So, for now, stay focused on the list at hand which is purely the fastest SCC / import.
.
.
.
__________________________________________________
Alberta’s Top 10 Fastest Sport Compact / Import [2006 General Eligibility Requirements]:
1. Vehicle must be owned by an Alberta resident or business. Vehicle must be registered and insured in the province of Alberta.
2. Quarter mile pass must be completed on an Alberta quarter mile track. [Edmonton: Bud Park, Calgary: Race City]
3. A digital photo or scan of your timeslip [JPG format], which clearly indicates the Track, Date and your cars time must be submitted.
4. Video may also be used to submit your time IF a timeslip is not available. [WMV format] Your video must clearly show the entire pass from start to finish and MUST clearly show the tower displaying both the MPH and the ET.
Additional Information:
1. Primary fuel must be gasoline. Use of Race Gasoline, Nitrous Oxide, or Water Injection (or others) as fuel related power adders are permitted.
2. All variations of tire construction are permitted. Bias ply Slicks, Drag Radials, Street Radials, etc.
3. Vehicle engine must originate from a vehicle that is a Sport Compact / Import and reside in a vehicle that is a Sport Compact / Import.
4. All formats of drive, be it RWD, FWD or AWD are eligible for the list.
__________________________________________________
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.
.
So that is a start and I believe it promotes going fast and doing what is necessary to do so without putting major restrictions on any competitor.
NOW ... Here are some other things I am working on and I think are actually important and would likely be applicable to just a handful of cars next year...BUT...important nonetheless...
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.
.
__________________________________________________
< 11.49 or > 130mph Pass Requirements [Safety]:
All passes falling in this area must see the car meeting the respective tech safety rules for the track on which the pass occurs. If your time required a 10 point roll cage and your car is not equipped with the necessary safety equipment, your car is is only eligible for whatever time it would qualify at tech. All cars running quicker than 11.49 must be equipped with the necessary roll protection for the vehicles trap speed and/or ET. A photo of the installed roll equipment may be requested.
Example, an 11.38 pass would require a roll bar to be installed in that vehicle in order for the time to be eligible. The fastest this car could run and remain eligible is 11.50. If for any reason, a track may not currently be following a specific set of rules, the IHRA rules will be used. Note: a car that runs 11.38 as per the example would qualify for the list with a time of 11.50.
10.99 or quicker Pass Requirements [inclusive of above].
1. 10.99 second or faster times must include BOTH a timeslip and a video. [Video must meet General Eligibilty Requirement #4]
__________________________________________________
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Ok, so the intent of introducing ideas like these is simply to level the playing field and safety. This should levy some degree of equality onto the cars that would be in this realm. A car competing with no roll equipment may be a hundred plus pounds lighter than someone who has the necessary equipment.
The idea behind the video for 10 second and quicker passes is simply so their is no dispute over time submissions. The video and timeslip proof should be sufficient for everyone. |
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| Insomniac |
quote:
__________________________________________________
< 11.49 or > 130mph Pass Requirements [Safety]:
All passes falling in this area must see the car meeting the respective tech safety rules for the track on which the pass occurs. If your time required a 10 point roll cage and your car is not equipped with the necessary safety equipment, your car is is only eligible for whatever time it would qualify at tech. All cars running quicker than 11.49 must be equipped with the necessary roll protection for the vehicles trap speed and/or ET. A photo of the installed roll equipment may be requested.
Example, an 11.38 pass would require a roll bar to be installed in that vehicle in order for the time to be eligible. The fastest this car could run and remain eligible is 11.50. If for any reason, a track may not currently be following a specific set of rules, the IHRA rules will be used. Note: a car that runs 11.38 as per the example would qualify for the list with a time of 11.50.
I totally disagree with this. Safety equipment has nothing to do with what a car ran. I don't have a problem with a car showing up, running fater than it is allowed, and then being kicked off the track. |
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| Z_Fan |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
I totally disagree with this. Safety equipment has nothing to do with what a car ran. I don't have a problem with a car showing up, running fater than it is allowed, and then being kicked off the track.
Well, I don't actually like it all either, as it doesn't suit me. :p
I wanted to toss the idea out and see what people thought about having the really fast cars actually be equipped with the right safety level for their speed...
A vehicle that runs 11.38 may be hard pressed to run 11.6 if it had all the roll equipment necessary.
This may just apply to so few people that it isn't necessary. But I still want some more feedback on the issue. |
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| Ron@Revolution |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
I totally disagree with this. Safety equipment has nothing to do with what a car ran. I don't have a problem with a car showing up, running fater than it is allowed, and then being kicked off the track.
Thats why there is safety rules. If I stripped out my full cage, and all the other safety equipment out of my car I would probably loose 200lbs. How can you back up your pass on a one run suicide pass without the proper cage etc...? |
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| Insomniac |
IMO, a car ran what it ran. Whether or not it has safety equipement, ran 1 or 8 passes of equal time, or scattered it's motor on the track at the end of the first pass doesn't change what it did, and that's run the number.
These lists are a PITA to keep up. The less rules the better. |
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| Z_Fan |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
IMO, a car ran what it ran.
These lists are a PITA to keep up. The less rules the better.
:thumbup: |
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| Ron@Revolution |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
IMO, a car ran what it ran. Whether or not it has safety equipement, ran 1 or 8 passes of equal time, or scattered it's motor on the track at the end of the first pass doesn't change what it did, and that's run the number.
These lists are a PITA to keep up. The less rules the better.
So how do you rule out timming errors which has already happened on this site remmeber the low 11 second pass of the ProDrag Civic that turned out to be a 12 second pass!:thumbup: |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
ran 1 or 8 passes of equal time, or scattered it's motor on the track at the end of the first pass doesn't change what it did, and that's run the number.
I disagree with that, which is partly why I said about ten pages back that once is fluke, 2nd is verified. (timing error was another)
Your record pass doesn't mean DICK as far as I'm concerned if you had to blow your car up to do it. That's BS. A record pass acheivable only by doing fatal harm to your engine is not a realistic benchmark for other competitors to compare themselves to.
Remember we are not professionals. This list here is just for fun, comprised of enthusiasts... amateurs mostly, and these are street cars. Professional drivers with pro cars in pro classes running in real national events maybe care about going that extra nth degree at whatever the cost. But I don't think that should be the intent here for our little 780/Beyond Top 10 list.
If you blow your car up just to get on THIS list, then you may be retarded. :dunno: |
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| Cody D |
| It was some F1 car builder who said "The best built race car is one that falls apart at the finish line". |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Cody D
It was some F1 car builder who said "The best built race car is one that falls apart at the finish line".
:thumbup: I won't presume to debate that guy's widsom.
But is that really an appropriate mantra for us, with:
- a street car (for some their only car, and transportation)
- a DIY budget
- amateur racing ability and/or experience
- the obtainable prize/ money in our typical events (which isn't a lot) |
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| Insomniac |
The Sivik fiasco was pretty obvious from the start, as the timeslip was incomplete, and the MPH/ET didn't match. In cases like this it is fair to question validity. We questioned it and got to the bottom of it. Video verified the timing error.
If a runner makes a new WR in the 100m in the Olympics and pulls a hamstring at the end of the race it doesn't change what they did. They still achieve the WR. I do realize that in the NHRA you need to back up a record. Bonieville salt flats make vehicles run twice within an hour in oppsosite directions.., partially to cancel out the effects of wind and probaly also to get a back up. Different rules, for different organizations. We don't have to be bound by any sport/sanctioning body's rules. I think if we act within reason, we will be fair.
I'd argue with you guys more about mechanical failures and backing up passes, but really it's just a matter of opinion.
I'm not going to say that I'm wrong or right (even though I am right;) ) I'm just putting in my 2c, as everyone should. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Ron@Revolution
So how do you rule out timming errors which has already happened on this site remmeber the low 11 second pass of the ProDrag Civic that turned out to be a 12 second pass!:thumbup:
Video evidence is key. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
We don't have to be bound by any sport/sanctioning body's rules. I think if we act within reason, we will be fair.
I'd argue with you guys more about mechanical failures and backing up passes, but really it's just a matter of opinion.
Agreed.
All I was trying to get across was: say two 300ZXs (or two Talons, whatever) both ran an 11.2 second pass, and one blew their engine (driver A) and one was perfectly fine and was able to do it again right after (driver B).... which of those guys deserves the props?
Sure they both physically ran the run... you can't change that fact. But driver B's run (and respective setup) is the more realistic benchmark for a third driver to compare themselves with.
I know we're striving to grow our scene and push our accomplishments. But do we really want our alter of fame (or whatever you call this list) to become the "Alter of Shame", full of broken down cars? What good is a list like that to anyone? Again I'd argue that those targets aren't realistic.
Just my 2 cents (in Canadian currency). |
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| Insomniac |
Well of course I would give more props to the guy with the running car, but I don't think that is any reason not to allow the other guy to be on the list.
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac
Well of course I would give more props to the guy with the running car, but I don't think that is any reason not to allow the other guy to be on the list.
Ok, I could live with that.
But perhaps there'd be an easy way to add a little indicator flag on the list to show which guy's records were proven repeatable, and which haven't been. Like prescence/absence of an asterix (or other such symbol) beside the entry. Just an idea.
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Z_Fan
All passes falling in this area must see the car meeting the respective tech safety rules for the track on which the pass occurs.
This falls way outside what I think this list should be keeping track of. If it requires any sort of verification by someone, it involves work by someone, some sort of sanctioning body, a not for profit group maybe, elections, etc... for the same reason I wouldn't want to put any sort of limits on fuel, I wouldn't put limits on this. (Because it requires too much effort on someone's part, and who is that 'someone' going to be, because it can't be the racer him/herself).
Not to mention, this is the responsibility of the track. If you don't run the proper equipment they shouldn't let you run in the first place. And backup pass requirements mean you can't just go and run once and leave. |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
This list here is just for fun, comprised of enthusiasts... amateurs mostly, and these are street cars. Professional drivers with pro cars in pro classes running in real national events maybe care about going that extra nth degree at whatever the cost. But I don't think that should be the intent here for our little 780/Beyond Top 10 list.
If you blow your car up just to get on THIS list, then you may be retarded. :dunno:
Agreed, if you start to get really serious, you won't care about this list.
And just because I'm a picky asshole, I wouldn't use the term 'street cars' to define the cars on this list. Putting slicks on a street car turns it into something other than a street car (a car then designed just for racing). Putting 'race' gas in turns it into ... a 'race' car. Heck, just running on a VHT prepared track... But anyways. I don't think we'll see Brent Rau asking to be on this list anytime soon, point taken :) |
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| DarrylBleau |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Ok, I could live with that.
But perhaps there'd be an easy way to add a little indicator flag on the list to show which guy's records were proven repeatable, and which haven't been. Like prescence/absence of an asterix (or other such symbol) beside the entry. Just an idea.[/IMG]
I think having to make a backup pass is a valid rule. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of disagreement there.
Another question would be, does the backup pass have to be on the same day? I think it should. |
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| Ron@Revolution |
quote:
Originally posted by DarrylBleau
I think having to make a backup pass is a valid rule. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of disagreement there.
Another question would be, does the backup pass have to be on the same day? I think it should.
I would disagree if you run close the next day or week or month it just validates your first pass. |
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| Z_Fan |
I guess that having to pass tech to run would essentially guarantee the car was in shape to run fast passes - or that particular person would only have one opportunity to run fast before they got kicked off the track.
OR - the track may let them run faster than their tech allows for one night only. Either way, getting a back-up pass may be the solution to this and we can forget all about tech specifications.
I do want to keep it simple. But I think back-up passes should only apply to times below 11.49 where the track is going to require roll safety equipment. This should ensure that the cars | | | |
