| preestablished rules as apposed to rules tailor ma - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| talont |
We all know consistent rules will encourage people to build cars for a specific class. I need to know how it is that implementing preestablished rules as apposed to rules tailor made for our community will encourage greater development. The IDRC was never meant to be an agent for increasing turnouts in racing communities with few cars. It is meant to create balance and competition in an environment Where they were seeing so many of the elite cars by creating more classes for these elite cars and one bracket class for everything else. we don’t have this problem. We need to work with what we have and develop or implement from preestablished sources what classes we are able to support, period. If we do not set up rules that are going to encourage development as apposed to using rules designed to regulate what is already an fully vibrant racing community we will be doing far more harm that good.
The big picture is this. Without the cars A full implementation of the IDRC will never work. we also know that the IDRC’s classes do not encourage development because they are better suited to the regulation of an existing group of faster cars. To encourage development all the classes we implement must maintain an enforceable balanced set of rules and classes for everyone. The classes must also be competitive for everyone and allow for development from one class to another in order to build on existing participants.
The IDRC is not built this way. :pat: |
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| 4kruzn |
:angry: talont I dissagree with nearly ever word you said in your last post. you seem to think that the majority of drag racers want to build cars 14 seconds or slower. the classes in the idrc start at 14 seconds and faster because any thing slower is not a race car it is a nearly stock neon or honda civic. these are hobby cars and the cars that take us to and from work, for the race cars we want rules to make us want to build even faster cars... as for myself anything slower that 14.00 should and needs to be in bracket or an et class because you cannot build rules to suit a class that slooooooooooow! nothing personal but if we strive for 14 second classes what good could that possibly do for the racing in e town?
Oh ya and by the way the idrc rules are set up to do exactly what we want. you build a car and learn to race in brackets, then when you build a fast car you move up to street or all motor or.... the reason for this is so that there is a class for everone!!!!! even the guys with the stock auto 3cly sprint with one bad valve.;) |
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| v8slayer |
So why not just make it simple for the simple thinking people.
All red cars race red cars.
All black cars race black cars.
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE......................F.......................A........................H........
IDRC are great rules and your comment above was totally an uneducated one.
Get the rules in and watch the cars get faster when we have classes to bulid to and perfect within.
Here is a simple question for you Talont:
Say we have our own Edmonton rules like you want.
I build my car for them and then I can't compete in IDRC when I go south because I don't meet their rules.
OK so I build it to IDRC but then when I go to Bud I must either add weight , widen my tires , change my roll cage thickness , tune for different fuel , on and on and on and on.
Do you think we are all bottomless pits of time and money.
If we go with what the rest are we won't have to change our cars back and forth to be compititive.
Its going to take all the fun out of racing if we are constanly trying to change our cars every weekend.
GO WITH IDRC and watch outsiders come to race , cars get faster , pay outs higher and even maybe put on the circut some day.
ITS all a positive thing!!!!!!!!!!!! :thefinger: |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by talont@Jan 25 2003, 05:35 PM
We all know consistent rules will encourage people to build cars for a specific class. I need to know how it is that implementing preestablished rules as apposed to rules tailor made for our community will encourage greater development. The IDRC was never meant to be an agent for increasing turnouts in racing communities with few cars. It is meant to create balance and competition in an environment Where they were seeing so many of the elite cars by creating more classes for these elite cars and one bracket class for everything else. we don’t have this problem. We need to work with what we have and develop or implement from preestablished sources what classes we are able to support, period. If we do not set up rules that are going to encourage development as apposed to using rules designed to regulate what is already an fully vibrant racing community we will be doing far more harm that good.
The big picture is this. Without the cars A full implementation of the IDRC will never work. we also know that the IDRC’s classes do not encourage development because they are better suited to the regulation of an existing group of faster cars. To encourage development all the classes we implement must maintain an enforceable balanced set of rules and classes for everyone. The classes must also be competitive for everyone and allow for development from one class to another in order to build on existing participants.
The IDRC is not built this way. :pat:
Then why, waaaay back when Bud Park was Capital City Raceway, did they become an NHRA sanctioned track? Why didn't they just tailor a set of rules to the scene as it existed then?
Why? To avoid the bullshit associated with trying to please everybody.
Bud Park has since switched to IHRA Sanctioning. Having looked at the IHRA rulebook, it doesn't lend itself very well, if at all, to the import/sport compact scene.
We might never be able to support all the IDRC or any other sanctioning bodies classes with LOCAL cars. So what? If there is only two cars in a specific class, it simply means that there is no trophy or payout for that class at that event. The option is still there for the competitor to run in the bracket class and take home some cash and bragging rights. However, if you host an IDRC sanctioned event, you draw from a huge pool of competitors, vying for series points and cold hard cash. Then you have a class for the few local racer's to compete in for some serious rewards and exposure.
Having been in contact with the Tech Director of IDRC on this issue, he was enthusiastic about what some of us are trying to do for the scene in Alberta, and eventually across Canada.
Picture a Northern Region for competitors to compete in. A 4-5 Race series for the hardcore racers to compete in. One race in Quebec, one in Ontario, one in Sask/Man., one in Alberta and one in BC.
What do you think the spectator's want to see? A hundred 14-18 second cars, a handfull of 12 second cars, a few 10-11 second cars and possibly one 9 second car?
Or a full field of 5 or more classes, with the local cream of the crop stacking up against the "big boys" from around the continent?
What is more exciting?
Most of the fast LOCAL cars are built with some sanctioning body's class in mind, that's why they are fast. If we don't adopt an established sanctioning bodies set of rules, I don't see a 9 second pass from a LOCAL car at a LOCAL track happening in within the next 2 season's.
You can never please everybody, what we are trying to do is build for the future. :bigthumbup: |
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| Pro Drag |
| Shit, I started writing my response before 4kruzn and V8slayer did, and I finished last......... :tear: |
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| talont |
No 4kruzn I don’t think the majority of people want to build 14 sec cars and I don’t want to see individual classes for slow or unmodified cars. I think is it great that people with 14 sec cars have the option of being able to come out to the track and race in the bracket class. I have a problem when there are so many people in Edmonton who find themselves unable to compete competitively in a head up class because the only class for them is the street class where you will find 11 sec cars against 13 sec cars, which to me is ridiculous because there are far more modified 12 and 13 sec cars than there are 11 sec cars. Take a moment to read the full list of posts in this thread and you will have a much better understanding of what my position is. You may be in a better position to have an opinion about what it is I have said as this is but one post of about 20 in the last few weeks!
My point that the IDRC doesn’t encourage development is based upon the fact that in order to compete in anything other than a bracket class you need to invest 15 thousand in your car in order to be competitive. That is such a Hugh step for anyone with out sponsorship or who doesn’t have tons of money to spend. Do you understand my point?
V8slayer why are you are taking my point and blowing it out of proportion? In a nut shell I would like to see a class for people who haven’t spent the 15 thousand or more on there car but have spent time and money on developing a respectably fast 13 or 12 sec car and have them able to race against cars equally as fast in there own class and not against 10 sec cars.
Why don’t you think you can’t compete in an IDRC sanctioned race? Where have I ever stated that we should go against the rules for weight, width of tires, roll cage thickness, different fuels, on and on and on and on? You have a car built for the street class in the IDRC and should be able to race against other cars built under the same restrictions, however there is no way you should be allowed to race against a car that can only do a 12 or 13 sec pass in the 1/4 mile. Do you get my point?
You and a few others have done amazing things with your cars and should have every opportunity to race against other equally fast and equally built cars competitively. Yes you need a class and the IDRC has one you can compete in competitively, I have no problem with that. But what about the majority of others who are trying to develop their cars? What solutions due you have for them other than to include them in a Hugh bracket class until such time that they find a sponsor or win the lottery….?
pearly you are right that we could give competitors the option to compete in any of the more elite classes even if they are competing with them selves or only against one or two other people, its there choice. the IDRC will encourage people to build cars for the faster classes as they will have that option open to them. Now how many people will be able to take advantage of this opportunity? Very few due to there being no progressive steps in between. you want to set up a provincial circuit for cars in the elite classes go hard. you think I want to see 100 14 to 18 sec cars competing in there own heads up classes? get real! You need to realize that the reason we have fast local cars isn’t because they have been built with a sanctioning body in mind. Its because in 99% of the cases people began modifying there cars little by little to make them faster. A sanctioning body doesn’t make a car go faster, if anything it make them go slower by restricting what they can have done to there car in order to compete in a given class. I want to see fast cars as much as anyone and will fully support any effort to have a class for them to compete in. I know you fully understand the problems I have with the IDRC and you seem unwilling to acknowledge them. What solutions do you have that will encourage someone in the bracket class to make there car go faster? You know they will be unable to compete competitively in a heads up class until there car is capable of doing a 11 or maybe 10 sec pass in the ¼ mile? A majority of the modified cars in Edmonton are not 11 or 10 sec cars but fall into the 12 to 13 sec range. With the implementation of the IDRC the majority of modified cars in Edmonton will no longer have a COMPETITIVE heads up class to compete in. They are the next up and comers. The ones building there cars to go faster because there has always been some form of faster class for them to work towards that was attainable. You take that away from Edmonton and you leave the door open to sponsored cars and to a few individual people who are able to fund there own race car. |
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| Loose |
How about we have IDRC rules with a bracket class, except the bracket class gets spit into two: Slow, and fast.
That way you're racing cars that are at least close to your speed, and don't have to wory about some 22 second Buick Sky-Chicken beating your 13 second bracket car.
I'd like to see some rules in place, but maybe with a bit of tweaking. |
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| Pro Drag |
| Alright, I guess there is a demand for a "Slow Street" class. Who is going to sponsor this class? |
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| redbaron303 |
| I will if someone sponsors me :) j/k |
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| talont3t4 |
I got the answer????
Step up!
or
Step off! |
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| 4kruzn |
| ;) once again I cant help but retort. talont, this may not bee the best example but let me try... I am also on a budget, this budget may be more than yours maybe less. I am starting to go road course racing, GT3, if you are familiar with it, to be competative and win at the valvoline runoffs one would need to invest maybe $200,000.00 for the cost of the car and the season. thats US by the way. in alberta a nearly stock type R integra is the car to beat. does that make our rules wrong??? the type R would be slauterd, chewd up and spit out at a regional race, and my 86 rx7 is even slower, buy far, than the type R the reason is, that my 86 rx7 is worth about 6000.00 so I take it out and have a shit load of fun racing my ass off. but at the end of the day I have won a race or two. the reason is because fast also means that accidents happen and things break. so my point is if some guy wants to build a 200,000.00 street class drag race WE WILL ALL LOSE!!! so suck it up build what you can aford and come out and race your ass off, maybe even win a race or two...and we will revel in the times that he breaks and our 6000.00 car wins the day. we will never agree on the consept of what is competative, if a guy has a 13 second car and qualifies for street class, more power to him. if he chooses to race brackets, great as well. if he stays at home he's a sissy. life is not fair, the two hunderd thousand dollar race cars are not fair-suck it up!!! PS. red lines are for sissys. :o |
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| talont |
Your compairison makes no sense at all.
You want to race against others who are compleatly out of your class..... so go do it. your "suck it up" , "shit happens" attitude doesnt play here. not when the point is that we have been asked by an organiser for ideas.
you love the sport, your car, and you dont care as long as your racing. you dont have any ideas and will more that likely have fun no matter what happens, so good luck to you! |
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| talont |
I got the answer??
If you really want to see a IDRC sanctioned event here in Edmonton go talk to bud park, line up some sponsors, and do it all yourselves!
"By the Racers, For the Racers."
what do you think? |
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| talont3t4 |
| I just read that the NHRA has eliminated the street class for next season?????? What effect would this have on the rules in the IDRC??? A great deal of tracks around here are NHRA aren't they??? |
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| IH8V8S |
quote:
Originally posted by talont@Feb 9 2003, 10:37 PM
Your compairison makes no sense at all.
You want to race against others who are compleatly out of your class..... so go do it. your "suck it up" , "shit happens" attitude doesnt play here. not when the point is that we have been asked by an organiser for ideas.
you love the sport, your car, and you dont care as long as your racing. you dont have any ideas and will more that likely have fun no matter what happens, so good luck to you!
:wacko: Well, here's a comparison you may understand; For the past 2 years I have won the Pro-Stock class at the JBs Import Drags twice and been runner up twice. One year with my $2500 '84 Mazda RX-7 and one year with my $5000 (on a good day) '76 Mazda Wagon. How do you think I felt going up against Integra Type Rs, 1.8T Jettas, Stockish Talons, and the like? Can you say UNDER-DOG!!!! :thumbsdown: Now, I could have :tear: and whined that a lot of the cars were quicker than me or very close to me. But I took my chances and was some-what confident in my ability to beat most people on the tree. And look at the results!!!! I'd say they're pretty good for a guy who wasn't born into motorsports. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we'll never satisfy everyone! ;) It's just impossible. Maybe a slow street class is a good idea, but where do you draw the lines? And how do you decide who you piss off and who you keep happy? Do you rig it so your car is at or near the top of the class? What are the limitations of this new class? These are all points you'd have to answer if you went with this idea! I don't have the right answers and I'm not going to claim to. But I love racing and I'm going to do it as well as I can given the circumstances that come up. More than my $0.02!!!! :wacko:
Krazy Karl :wacko: |
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| talont |
Ya I remember you did really well against cars that were faster than you were!
It is so exciting when things are close but you know you still have a chance even if it is a small one, to beat the next guy.
My rivalry with Eric’s civic last year was a great example of this. At the first BOI he beat me :( . at the second heading into the finals it looked like we would be facing against each other. sure enough it happened. I really wanted to beat him this time and things were soooo close. I just came off the track with my best pass yet at 13.159 and was lining up with the civic. His last pass was a 13.159 too. You couldn’t have asked for a better match up. I was soooo pumped, (ok scared really...). He staged his car first, and I could hear him revving the shit out of his car. I went too far and had to back up to restage. I figured I had to take my time staging the car, I could still hear him revving the shit out of his car and could feel the tension building. His rpm was dropping with every second as he waited for me to stage. I staged and caught him off guard, racing down the track, for my most exciting race of the day. I pulled off a win.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh revenge is sweet!
It’s not whining or crying, when we have been asked to give input. I am giving mine and others should do the same other wise they will have no right to ever bitch about the rules because they never took the opportunity to voice there opinion.
A slower street class was something I though our community would benefit from if there were ever an IDRC type event here. That is my opinion!
what ever happens, happens, but if an organizer encourages a discussion so that he can better design a set of rules based on the wants of the racers lets give him all our ideas.enough with the "quit your whining". voice your ideas and let’s see what happens. Pearly and v8slayer had an idea and although I didn’t agree with everything they said at least they had the guts to come out and say something. |
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| IH8V8S |
quote:
Originally posted by talont@Feb 11 2003, 03:10 AM
Ya I remember you did really well against cars that were faster than you were!
It is so exciting when things are close but you know you still have a chance even if it is a small one, to beat the next guy.
My rivalry with Eric’s civic last year was a great example of this. At the first BOI he beat me :( . at the second heading into the finals it looked like we would be facing against each other. sure enough it happened. I really wanted to beat him this time and things were soooo close. I just came off the track with my best pass yet at 13.159 and was lining up with the civic. His last pass was a 13.159 too. You couldn’t have asked for a better match up. I was soooo pumped, (ok scared really...). He staged his car first, and I could hear him revving the shit out of his car. I went too far and had to back up to restage. I figured I had to take my time staging the car, I could still hear him revving the shit out of his car and could feel the tension building. His rpm was dropping with every second as he waited for me to stage. I staged and caught him off guard, racing down the track, for my most exciting race of the day. I pulled off a win.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh revenge is sweet!
It’s not whining or crying, when we have been asked to give input. I am giving mine and others should do the same other wise they will have no right to ever bitch about the rules because they never took the opportunity to voice there opinion.
A slower street class was something I though our community would benefit from if there were ever an IDRC type event here. That is my opinion!
what ever happens, happens, but if an organizer encourages a discussion so that he can better design a set of rules based on the wants of the racers lets give him all our ideas.enough with the "quit your whining". voice your ideas and let’s see what happens. Pearly and v8slayer had an idea and although I didn’t agree with everything they said at least they had the guts to come out and say something.
I didn't mean for what I said to sound like "Quit your whining" but more of a "shit happens and overcome it". I think maybe another class would be a good idea but to create this new class would be tough to say the least. Where do you draw the lines? What mods are allowed? What's not allowed? What vehicles are not allowed? What vehicles are allowed? The list could go on forever! I think I'm going to run either all motor or bracket this year. I don't have a car capable of 13s in it's present state so there'd be no point to running a class higher than all motor or bracket. Either way, have fun this summer and we'll see you at the track.
Krazy Karl :wacko: |
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