| piston and rod question - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| Shady_Pro |
| how important is it to get replace factory rods if im installing a higher c/r piston, but the cam isn't extremly kronic (max redline 7800) |
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| Adam |
usually rods are the weak link in a stock motor.
I would replace them if it was me...I mean you have it apart already, might as well unless $$ is a factor. If you dont you may be sorry down the road...depends what pistons youre using and motor it is. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Adam
usually rods are the weak link in a stock motor.
I would replace them if it was me...I mean you have it apart already, might as well unless $$ is a factor. If you dont you may be sorry down the road...depends what pistons youre using and motor it is.
I agree, if you have it apart, why not add some insurance?
That being said, the biggest killer of a connecting rod (other than improper tuning of the engine) is RPM. If you aren't going to significantly raise the redline of the engine (20% or more) you should be okay as long as the engine isn't detonating. You might want to look into ARP bolts though for the connecting rods. |
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| 95IntegraRS |
| Yea, if you aren't going to swap the con rods I would definately look into some ARP bolts. Hondas like to stretch the stock ones. |
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| EK9Hatch |
What compression ratio are you going to be using? That would be more first question. Secondly, if you are upping the compression, I take it you want MORE power. A snapped/bent connecting rod is going to rob you of a lot of power. Stock Honda rods can take SOME abuse, but raising the compression in the cylinder (weather it be N/A or Forced Induction) will cause rods and bearings to break.
I would highly suggest replacing the factory rods with aftermarket fordged rods. Its more than just insurance, its crucial in adding more power. To me it would be a waste of time to tear apart a engine to put high comp pistons in and leave the rods stock...if you dont put the rods in now, you will just be pissed when you have to tear it apart again when the stock rod gives out. |
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| Pro Drag |
Rods rarely give out due to HP. They buckle under the stresses of detonation (improper tuning) or RPM.
RPM is what killed the bone stock connecting rod in the Sivik, it was over 350 WHP from a b18a. One missed shift, from 4th to 3rd instead of 5th, stretched the factory rod bolt on one of the connecting rods. 3 Passes later the nut backed off the bolt and I put a window in the block.
If you have it apart, rods are cheap insurance against tuning problems or rpm misshaps. Do them if you can. |
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| EK9Hatch |
| I agree with you that detonation will ruin a motor (and rods) but even with perfect tuning a factory rod can only take so much. When you start pushing a lot more HP than the rod was designed for, it stresses it and can break. Cylinder pressure and RPM have a lot to do with it as well. |
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| Shady_Pro |
ya the engine was apart just this last winter and absoultly everything was replaced except for the rods and crank...and after about 8000ks one of my cyclinders is becomming oil senstive...
and last winter i didn't ahve the money for, forged rods and pistons after everything else... and i plan to run some nitrous...and with that i want to up the self assurance i have in the motor by strenghthing the bottom end...
as for the arp rod bolts they were already installed over the past winter along with everything other bolt ie head bolts... |
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| DomesticDrifter |
| if you're not going to use forged rods i'd suggest at least using NEW oem rods that don't have 150,000+ km on them. at least new oem rods will have way less wear on them and will extend the life of your motor that much longer. |
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| Ron@Revolution |
| Make sure if you do reuse stock rods to have them checked out by a reputable machine shop. It costs less to have them checked then to replace a block and maybe crank and head. |
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| IDTrav |
| opinions on getting the rods shot-peaned? does it actually strengthen them or what :dunno: |
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| 95IntegraRS |
| Shot peening works good but it can only do so much... it is extremely effective for the cost though... |
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| Ron@Revolution |
| It works but either you need stronger rods or you don't if you do buy a set if no leave well enough alone is my advice. |
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| charger_guy |
| Depending on what power and reliability u are going after...make sure u have a good forged crankshaft....aftermarket con rods...and get the proper type of pistons for your aplication....what are the main caps made off.....see if u can get billet main caps for the crank and a good set of bearings..im also sure u could get a main girdle...helps stiffen the main caps...allows no cap twist...spinning bearings is the worst...im building my 440 bigblock to rev up to 7500rpm....i'm investing the extra $$ just so i don't have to redo what ive just built up...expecially since i plan to run force induction down the road |
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| Mekanik22 |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
Depending on what power and reliability u are going after...make sure u have a good forged crankshaft....aftermarket con rods...and get the proper type of pistons for your aplication....what are the main caps made off.....see if u can get billet main caps for the crank and a good set of bearings..im also sure u could get a main girdle...helps stiffen the main caps...allows no cap twist...spinning bearings is the worst...im building my 440 bigblock to rev up to 7500rpm....i'm investing the extra $$ just so i don't have to redo what ive just built up...expecially since i plan to run force induction down the road
For 1, not many people will go through all that "hassle". Thats something I would do, but most people won't. He may just be one of these people hence asking about stock rods.
For 2, most of that isn't needed. Alot of the import motors will take it.
Lastly, it's not as easy to walk out the door and just find parts for a motor. You being a domestic guy, I know your used to having every part readily at your disposal. Sometimes with alot of imports you can't even find stuff or can't run a particual setup with dramatically changing/modifing other things.
I see where your coming from though. I'm the same way. I'll go out and spend a bunch of money as I feel strongly about "You get what you pay for" and "better safe then sorry". |
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| Mekanik22 |
quote:
Originally posted by Mekanik22
For 1, not many people will go through all that "hassle". Thats something I would do, but most people won't. He may just be one of these people hence asking about stock rods.
For 2, most of that isn't needed. Alot of the import motors will take it.
Lastly, it's not as easy to walk out the door and just find parts for a motor. You being a domestic guy, I know your used to having every part readily at your disposal. Sometimes with alot of imports you can't even find stuff or can't run a particual setup without dramatically changing/modifing other things.
I see where your coming from though. I'm the same way. I'll go out and spend a bunch of money as I feel strongly about "You get what you pay for" and "better safe then sorry".
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| Mekanik22 |
| WTF?! :dunno: I edited my post and it quoted me? :confused: Mods delete the quoted post thing. |
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| charger_guy |
| true...but not true...i can't just go buy any part 4 my cars...lol...its 10times harder building my cars then urs....and most domestic engines will hold alot of power...im just saying....if he really wants to build something where he wants to run major power...thats the route to go...if its a stock or low horsepower engine of course stock parts are fine.. |
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| Shady_Pro |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
true...but not true...i can't just go buy any part 4 my cars...lol...its 10times harder building my cars then urs....and most domestic engines will hold alot of power...im just saying....if he really wants to build something where he wants to run major power...thats the route to go...if its a stock or low horsepower engine of course stock parts are fine..
i beg to differ on that...i use to work for a wholesale company and if i had a v8 say a simple chev 350 i could walk in there and moreless buy everything i need from bottom end to engine dress up and for half the price i would ever find import parts...and the majority of engine building shops want you to bring them a 350 over a h22 or any foreign engine...
a guy with a 350 will pay almost the same price for 8 pistons as i will for 4 |
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| charger_guy |
| hahaha see thats ur problem any ford or chev u can build...im talking mopar man....which no one in the world knows what it takes to build them... unless u own one....they are worth the most and will always be worth the most....go to any shop and ask for a set of indy or edelbrock heads for a 440....i bet u any money its atleast 2 weeks to 6 weeks away.....you guys have no clue...it takes alot more skills and fabricatiuon to build a old style old technology muscle car up to perform like any new sports car today.....set me appart from many ppl |
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| DomesticDrifter |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
hahaha see thats ur problem any ford or chev u can build...im talking mopar man....which no one in the world knows what it takes to build them... unless u own one....they are worth the most and will always be worth the most....go to any shop and ask for a set of indy or edelbrock heads for a 440....i bet u any money its atleast 2 weeks to 6 weeks away.....you guys have no clue...it takes alot more skills and fabricatiuon to build a old style old technology muscle car up to perform like any new sports car today.....set me appart from many ppl
you're on the wrong forum buddy... you're going to find out quickly there arn't to many memebers with V8's and not to many people here are fans of domestic cars. just do a quick search and you'll see what i'm talking about.
good luck to both of you with your projects. |
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| charger_guy |
| dude ih ave sooo many friends on this forum that love my cars.....and whats the point of always sticking to one kind of group?....i like both worlds....i plan to learn off some of the things that some of u have to say......whats with domestic drifter??? u sure u belong on this forum????.......mind u own buisness.....and ppl need to learn the facts of building my cars before anything can be said |
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| icydude |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
dude ih ave sooo many friends on this forum that love my cars.....and whats the point of always sticking to one kind of group?....i like both worlds....i plan to learn off some of the things that some of u have to say......whats with domestic drifter??? u sure u belong on this forum????.......mind u own buisness.....and ppl need to learn the facts of building my cars before anything can be said
i like displacement and i know your car will motor :thumbup:
keep us posted |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
hahaha see thats ur problem any ford or chev u can build...im talking mopar man....which no one in the world knows what it takes to build them... unless u own one....they are worth the most and will always be worth the most....go to any shop and ask for a set of indy or edelbrock heads for a 440....i bet u any money its atleast 2 weeks to 6 weeks away.....you guys have no clue...it takes alot more skills and fabricatiuon to build a old style old technology muscle car up to perform like any new sports car today.....set me appart from many ppl
do you know how long the wait is for a Mugen Header for a honda??? much longer then your 2-6 weeks hah and my guess is alot more money |
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| charger_guy |
| dude...some parts 4 my car is up 2 a 3-6 month wait....i know how the auto industry works...i deal with it everyday |
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| mwdguy |
| Your wait time is longer because there is less demand for mopar stuff than there is ford and chev. Every edelbrock intake comes from teh same plant, all they do is change the tooling for a particular run where there are enough requests for that particular part number. It's not like Mopar intakes and heads have some wierd voodoo magic built up inside them that takes longer to be produced. |
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| charger_guy |
| no da...lol...but its the fact that mopar stuff is alot more rare and costs alot more than fords and chevs... |
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| Nightstalker |
I think my main issue with you Charger guy is that you seem to have some huge superiority complex when it comes to both building cars and your brand. It has a lot less to do with the fact you drive what you do. At least your wording makes you come off that way.
Your not hot shit, nore am I or anyone else here. We are all car people, stop trying to tell everyone your special (we don't think you are and even if you were we don't care) and just enjoy the place. Man, If I was a woman I would say I have PMS this week.... I am a dick.. and yet, I am having more fun hear then I think I ever have. :lol: |
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| Soulfly |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
no da...lol...but its the fact that mopar stuff is alot more rare and costs alot more than fords and chevs...
hahaha..
Try Having a 1976 Pontiac Trans Am with a 455 Big Block and 4spd..
See if you can find any parts for that..
I just read through all your posts.. and I'm gonna agree With Nightstalker... Cause He's Right...
No parts in the world are going to be a 3-6 MONTH Waiting list.. Unless you want a Ferrari 575M Maranello... But that's the whole car..
Parts don't take 6 months to make... :mad: |
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| charger_guy |
| im not better than anyone...i just hate people who think they know when they have no experience......i'm sure many here do...but i have gone beyond the extent of some ppl....so to them i sound stupid and make it seem like i know nothing...im big with muscle cars and know what it takes to get parts 4 what modles...sure there are afew chevs and fords that are hard cars to find parts 4...but mopar is worth the most because of the rarety.....untill you own one u have no idea.....thats all im gonna say.... |
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| Nightstalker |
| Depending on how picky you are, it can be extreamly hard to find some parts for imports aswell. Just a question, but how often do you rebuild import engines. Or ones with variable valve timing in general. |
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| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
no da...lol...but its the fact that mopar stuff is alot more rare and costs alot more than fords and chevs...
The motor he has in his car the A20 is the basterd child of honda, and it is very hard to find parts for it, and most are disscontinued.
I drive a V8 dodge and its the worst thing I have ever owned in my life. The a20 is not a cheap car to build either, Im almost positive its alot more work then your charger. |
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| charger_guy |
| you own a old mopar???......if so what one..a new v-8 dosen't count |
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| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
you own a old mopar???......if so what one..a new v-8 dosen't count
I never said old but it is the 318 in my 98 durango. |
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| se-i |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
you own a old mopar???......if so what one..a new v-8 dosen't count
Double post sorry.
Im not trying to discredite your work at all, trust me Im a fan of all cars. Im not trying to start anything just trying to inform you on his car alittle. |
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| stealth |
quote:
Originally posted by Soulfly
hahaha..
Try Having a 1976 Pontiac Trans Am with a 455 Big Block and 4spd..
See if you can find any parts for that..
I just read through all your posts.. and I'm gonna agree With Nightstalker... Cause He's Right...
No parts in the world are going to be a 3-6 MONTH Waiting list.. Unless you want a Ferrari 575M Maranello... But that's the whole car..
Parts don't take 6 months to make... :mad:
I beg to differ lol.
My seats brackets - 6 Months.
My Turbo Timer Harness - 5 months and counting...
h22a greddy header - 8 months
many parts take a long time, its because they wait until a certain amount of orders are taken, before the produce it. |
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| 95IntegraRS |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
I beg to differ lol.
My seats brackets - 6 Months.
My Turbo Timer Harness - 5 months and counting...
h22a greddy header - 8 months
many parts take a long time, its because they wait until a certain amount of orders are taken, before the produce it.
You're just ordering from the wrong people if you have to wait that long for parts. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by Soulfly
No parts in the world are going to be a 3-6 MONTH Waiting list.. Unless you want a Ferrari 575M Maranello... But that's the whole car..
Parts don't take 6 months to make... :mad:
Tell that to GReddy, especially when it comes to their 350Z Gracer Aero kit, or even their H22A Header. |
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| Soulfly |
Basicly.. I was stating that Parts do NOT take 6 months to 'Make' .. If Greddy is Lazy and don't ship them out right away... then that's there fault and then parts will take 6 months to ship.
Eather way.. My earlier post was about making parts.. and postpone shipping them out to customers... |
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| Nightstalker |
| Since my question didn't get answered I am guessing the answer is zero. |
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| Shady_Pro |
| from what i know greddy is the worst...and any northamerican enthustis that bitchs about not being able tyo find parts or order parts in quick and cheap is out to lunch...i use to work wholesale with those parts and if i dind't have somthing in, it wasn't much to call down to the states and get it brought up in a day....a little different from calling japan and trying to get it shipped over a week later... |
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| icydude |
I find it very easy to get parts directly from japan in 8 days or less.
And very very reasonable shipping for the distance the packages go. |
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| Nightstalker |
| I waited something like 8 months for my greddy Evo2 that is on the coupe. |
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| youngbex |
quote:
Originally posted by icydude
I find it very easy to get parts directly from japan in 8 days or less.
And very very reasonable shipping for the distance the packages go.
is it worth it? i see so many cheap exhaust sysytems and other parts its crazy! |
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| Nightstalker |
| Aside from the fact every time you order stuff from japan you should always ask for it overnight. :lol: |
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