| Fish_e_o |
| first of all i drive a 98 neon with rims and white racing stripes and i have never had a ticket for anything at all, and all (well almost all) the racing i do is on the track. i found that especially when i had my rims on i was getting pulled over by the cops at least once a month. now the big thing is they would never have a reason to pull me over they would just ask the same questions " is this your car?" " have you been doing any racing tonight?" " is that exaust stock?" (it's not but i just say that the muffler needs to be replaced) and "if i search your car am i going to find anything i shouldn't?"... now the last time i got pulled over i asked for the oficers badge # but he didn't give it to me. now i wouldn't be so mad but it's annoying when i'm trying to get to work and i'm late because they keep me at the side of the road for ten minutes. does this happen to anyone else and has anyone ever complained about this? |
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| 95EagleAWD |
| Cops can pull you over to check your docs... live with it, or go on the down low and don't draw attention to yourself. |
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| Fish_e_o |
| ya i think the stripes are coming off next summer, after the srt swap this winter. just so it looks nice and sleeperish, i might even sell the rims and just get radials for the stockers so this stops because they could give me alot of tickets if they are haveing a bad day.. for example emissions, clear corner lenses, i think to much camber is illegal too, too loud, etc... |
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| penance |
write down the car's number & license plate if he's gonna be such a dank about giving you his badge number. it's just as much your right to see his badge #, as it is his to pull you over for shits & giggles
i've been pulled over for clears, camber, exhaust, bodykit, tails, tint, ect... most of those times for no real reason... i'd just play dumb to get out of a ticket, or pretend that i liked to hear the sound of there voice as much as they do. then i'd pay the ticket, ignore the pointless 'slap on the wrist' warning to fix the problem... and move on with life |
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| keebler811 |
| Fish....unfortunately there's nothing you can do to your car to make you not get checked all the time. A cop can pull over anyone at anytime to check the registration/insurance for the car, the license of the driver, and to see if you are drunk. That's all the reason they need...."pulled me over for no reason" is a myth. In your case it's the car you drive that's the problem...nothing against neons but they are by far the most frequently stolen car out there. If you drive a neon past a cop you can pretty much guarentee they will at the very least run your plate, and may pull you over and find something wrong with your car to small talk about while they see your reactions and check for the obvious signs of a stolen car. It's nothing against the rims or stripes or whatever...neons always get stolen so they always get checked. But yes, you are right, if they are having a bad day or you are mouthy then there's a lot there you could get tickets for...the risk we all take for mods. |
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| n0c7 |
| :blink: Camber? How can they tell? |
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| 50 50 |
| well you drive a neon so they know its fast esp with the white racing stripes and thoughs rims you must run like 12s. |
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| mazdaspeed_03 |
| ^^^:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ^^^^ |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Camber? How can they tell?
well when you run -2.5 degrees it's not that hard to tell.. the wheels are really kicked out at the bottom really obvious with my 16's
quote:
well you drive a neon so they know its fast esp with the white racing stripes and thoughs rims you must run like 12s.
well not quite but i should run a good 12.5 w/slicks when i get everything running and tuned and put in...right now i'm unfortunatly just loud...and a scary 15 seconds!!
oh ya and w/stripes it brings it down to a 12 :thumbup: they're like 100hp each man!! :fingersx: promise... |
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| n0c7 |
| Why would you want to run with camber like that when everyone fights against toe to correct camber to avoid tire wear :confused: |
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| icydude |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
well when you run -2.5 degrees it's not that hard to tell.. the wheels are really kicked out at the bottom really obvious with my 16's
I have -4 in the rear and -3.5 up front.
A 4 inch exhaust
Bright yellow roll cage
and a bright yellow car.
I have never been pulled over by the cops once and i have passed a fair few, are you sure your not doing anything wrong? |
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| Fish_e_o |
| both from the park and we see the same cops i dunno... to clarify i've never been commented to by a cop about the camber.. and dude thats alot of camber you must lose alot in transitions or what do you drive something heavier? |
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| penance |
| oops! sorry, not camber... spacing.. my wheels sit wider, so they stick out past the fender abit... one cop complained to me about that, along with my kit, because of the water wake i was spitting up behind me at 110km/h |
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| silvia s13 |
quote:
Originally posted by keebler811
Fish....unfortunately there's nothing you can do to your car to make you not get checked all the time. A cop can pull over anyone at anytime to check and to see if you are drunk. That's all the reason they need....
This is not true. Trust me when I say this. How much are you willing to bet? Read up on the laws b4 you post. Cops cannot pull you over for suspution of being drunk unless they have probable ground to do so. ie: your driving patterns or a checkstop. |
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| Fish_e_o |
QUOTE]Cops cannot pull you over for suspution of being drunk unless they have probable ground to do so. ie: your driving patterns or a checkstop.[/QUOTE]
i thought so!!... meh what can i do anyway.. it's my word against theirs and hey from an 18 year old male he could just say eratic driving and my car is pretty squirly on the road again with the camber...
quote:
Why would you want to run with camber like that when everyone fights against toe to correct camber to avoid tire wear
for racing, it helps plant the tire in turns, translating into more grip!! screw tires :D !! and toe and camber are two differnet things for example i have -2.5 degrees of camber but 0 degrees of toe in the front and -0.85 degrees of camber in the rear and no toe. think of camber as tiltilting the top of the wheel in or out and toe as the front of the wheel in or out.. yes it wears the inside edge if you don't race but if you do it actually evens out tire wear if you get it right and it should wear evenly across the tire... |
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| keebler811 |
quote:
Originally posted by silvia s13
This is not true. Trust me when I say this. How much are you willing to bet? Read up on the laws b4 you post. Cops cannot pull you over for suspution of being drunk unless they have probable ground to do so. ie: your driving patterns or a checkstop.
Nope...wrong....I'll bet whatever you want. You should read some laws. The Supreme Court of Canada has stated that while to pull someone over at random for anything but checking their documents is a breach of their charter rights, they have also ruled that in the case of drunk driving the seriousness of the offence outweighs the breach of rights (commonly refered to as the Section 1 test). In other words checking if the driver is drunk is a "justified breach" and is saved by Section 1 of the Charter. And I don't need to read up on the laws before I post...I posted because I already know the laws. Trust me, it's my job. |
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| keebler811 |
Sorry, should have included this in the above post. If anyone cares to read the actual facts on this, here's one of the more recent Supreme Court cases that deals with this. It is a load of legal babble, but check out paragraph 3 under "introduction" (about a quarter of the way down the page) for a good summary. It is originally a Manitoba case but because it is a Supreme Court ruling it is binding on Alberta as well.
Supreme Court Case (R. v. Orbanski; R. v. Elias) |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by silvia s13
This is not true. Trust me when I say this. How much are you willing to bet? Read up on the laws b4 you post. Cops cannot pull you over for suspution of being drunk unless they have probable ground to do so. ie: your driving patterns or a checkstop.
Cops can pull you over to "check documents". If you just happen to be drinking, or have a Civic full of illegal immigrants... bonus. |
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| n0c7 |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
QUOTE]Cops cannot pull you over for suspution of being drunk unless they have probable ground to do so. ie: your driving patterns or a checkstop.
i thought so!!... meh what can i do anyway.. it's my word against theirs and hey from an 18 year old male he could just say eratic driving and my car is pretty squirly on the road again with the camber...
for racing, it helps plant the tire in turns, translating into more grip!! screw tires :D !! and toe and camber are two differnet things for example i have -2.5 degrees of camber but 0 degrees of toe in the front and -0.85 degrees of camber in the rear and no toe. think of camber as tiltilting the top of the wheel in or out and toe as the front of the wheel in or out.. yes it wears the inside edge if you don't race but if you do it actually evens out tire wear if you get it right and it should wear evenly across the tire... [/QUOTE]
I know how camber and toe works, I just don't see how driving a neon(not bashing your car) as a daily driver on the street with camber like that is beneficial. I hope you have a good hookup for tires because once you hit 17" rims and above, $250-300 a tire isnt cheap anymore :blink: |
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| silvia s13 |
quote:
Originally posted by keebler811
Nope...wrong....I'll bet whatever you want. You should read some laws. The Supreme Court of Canada has stated that while to pull someone over at random for anything but checking their documents is a breach of their charter rights, they have also ruled that in the case of drunk driving the seriousness of the offence outweighs the breach of rights (commonly refered to as the Section 1 test). In other words checking if the driver is drunk is a "justified breach" and is saved by Section 1 of the Charter. And I don't need to read up on the laws before I post...I posted because I already know the laws. Trust me, it's my job.
What is your job?
(a) The Scope of Police Authority to Check the Sobriety of Drivers
40 It is not disputed that the police had the right to stop Orbanski and Elias. In each case, the driver was stopped pursuant to the general stop power under s. 76.1(1) (then s. 76.1) of the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act:
76.1(1) A peace officer, in the lawful execution of his or her duties and responsibilities, may require the driver of a motor vehicle to stop, and the driver of the motor vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a peace officer who is readily identifiable as such, shall immediately come to a safe stop and remain stopped until permitted by the peace officer to depart.
Maybe in under the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act but not under the Alberta. |
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| silvia s13 |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
Cops can pull you over to "check documents". If you just happen to be drinking, or have a Civic full of illegal immigrants... bonus.
Or a broken taillight, or a gun under the seat, or a body in the back.....have fun trying to convict someone in court of those under section "Cops can pull you over to "check documents"":rolleyes:
Have you ever been to court? |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
I'd be iffy about the "check documents" law, I'd definitely fight or complain about that one.
If I was driving around minding my own business and got pulled over because I "looked like I was up to no good" I'd be pretty pissed about it.
In my mind that's called harrassment isn't it?. |
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| keebler811 |
quote:
Originally posted by silvia s13
Maybe in under the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act but not under the Alberta.
It doesn't matter...because it is a Supreme Court decision it applies to all common law provinces, which includes Alberta. And it's not about what the provincial traffic laws state it's about whether a cop pulling you over simply to see if you are drunk violates your charter of rights, which is a national thing. And the Supreme Court says that does violate your rights, but it's a "justified" violation because they think the benefits outweigh the breach of rights. Sure it sucks, as it is a violation of your rights to not be arbitrarily detained, but one which when it involves checking if you are drunk is acceptable in the eyes of the government. |
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| Honda_Finatic |
Not trying to Hi-Jack your tread Fish, but i've encountered simular. Glad you brought it up. I was driving home and this cop going the opposite direction as me totally stares at me while giving me a dirty look. Pulls a U-Turn and pulls me over.... then gives me a ticket for my exhaust. Harrassment is what i consider it. There was no need for him to pull the U-Turn. I wasnt doing anything wrong,nor can he tell i have an exhaust coming from the opposite direction.
Anybody if you can file for harrassment against a police officer in a situation like this?
Again, not trying to hi-jack your thread Fish, just thought it was simular to what i get on the road. |
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| Honda_Finatic |
Made a typo:
Anybody know* if you can file for harrassment in a situation like this? |
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| silvia s13 |
quote:
Originally posted by keebler811
It doesn't matter...because it is a Supreme Court decision it applies to all common law provinces, which includes Alberta. And it's not about what the provincial traffic laws state it's about whether a cop pulling you over simply to see if you are drunk violates your charter of rights, which is a national thing. And the Supreme Court says that does violate your rights, but it's a "justified" violation because they think the benefits outweigh the breach of rights. Sure it sucks, as it is a violation of your rights to not be arbitrarily detained, but one which when it involves checking if you are drunk is acceptable in the eyes of the government.
maybe could you quote where you found that. im having a hard time reading all 100+ paragraphs. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
quote:
Originally posted by silvia s13
maybe could you quote where you found that. im having a hard time reading all 100+ paragraphs.
This is EXACTLY why lawyers get the big bucks, they comb through everything and find the loopholes.
Disgusting ain't it? the info's there, but it takes a few re-reads just to understand what the hell they are saying. |
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| Fish_e_o |
Honda_Finatic
quote:
Not trying to Hi-Jack your tread Fish
no that was what i was looking for other people who are "harrased" too!! i think a petition is in order..
quote:
I know how camber and toe works, I just don't see how driving a neon(not bashing your car) as a daily driver on the street with camber like that is beneficial. I hope you have a good hookup for tires because once you hit 17" rims and above, $250-300 a tire isnt cheap anymore
in the winter i take my camber off. i really don't drive to much especialy durring the summer. and as far as tires go they wear better with more camber if you race it. if you don't have camber it scrubbs the outside edge off. hahaa ya it's kind of expensive 225 per tire for R compounds but hey you have to pay to play!:D i keep costs down by buying wheel and tire sets from junk yards too 150 gets decent allseasons on good aluminum rims for a neon. |
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| keebler811 |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueTurboEGG
This is EXACTLY why lawyers get the big bucks, they comb through everything and find the loopholes.
Disgusting ain't it? the info's there, but it takes a few re-reads just to understand what the hell they are saying.
So true...I know it is a mess. Basically all 105 pages of the case (link posted previously) boil down to one thing. Can a cop pull you over at random for a reason other than checking documents?
The short answer is no...the cop needs a reason, otherwise it is considered an arbitrary dention, and as Section 9 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms states: "Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned." So, it would appear that a cop pulling you over just at random (not to check your documents) if he doesn't have a reason (ie you broke a traffic law) would violate your rights.
And yes, it does violate your rights. However, what makes it complicated is that Section 1 of the Charter allows for times when it is okay to violate your rights. Section 1 states: "The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society." What a load of legal babble....basically means that if the Supreme Court says it's okay, then the government (ie the police) can violate your rights.
However, there are very few times when they do in fact say it's okay. Drunk driving is one of those times. The Court feels that because drunk driving is such a big social problem, your rights of not to be arbitrarily detained (ie pulled over at random) come second if a cop wants to see if you are drunk. Shitty I know....we just have to live with it.
One part of the case that says this is in the majority decision (it was a 7 - 2 vote) which states:
"It is my view that these screening measures, used in each case for assessing the sobriety of the driver, were authorized by law and incompatible with the exercise of the right to counsel by the detained motorist at the roadside. The resulting limitations on the s. 10(b) right to counsel were reasonable and demonstrably justified under s. 1 of the Charter. Specifically, the limits arose by necessary implication from the legislative provisions found in the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act, S.M. 1985-86, c. 3, C.C.S.M. c. H60, and their operating requirements. Affirming the validity of such screening measures for the limited purpose of assessing the sobriety of the driver at the roadside properly balances the strong public interest in combatting the social evil of drinking and driving with the need to protect the Charter rights of individuals."
So there you have it. Yes it does mention Manitoba but only in the sense that the Mantiba Traffic Act gives cops the right to pull cars over in the first place...which of course all the other provinces have similar provisions. A cop pulling you over to see if you are drunk is an arbitrary detention and does violate your rights, but the Court says it's okay because drunk driving is bad. This is exactly why Checkstops are legal. That is the most random thing ever, check everyone who comes through no matter what. And a random one on one stop by a cop to see if you are drunk is the same thing. Let's just hope the Court doesn't go to town and make a whole bunch of other times that violating your rights is okay.
Holy batman...long post. To sum up, if you have done NOTHING wrong (and frig there is a traffic law for everything), then there are only four things a cop can do if you pulls you over at random:
1. Check the registration/insurance for the vehicle
2. Check to see if the driver has a vaild driver's license
3. Check to see if the driver is drunk
4. Check the mechanical road worthiness of the vehicle
So if the cop is doing one of those things on a "random" stop, he is conducting the stop lawfully and anything else he may find (like the bag of weed you forgot to hide under your seat) is fair game. Know your rights people! |
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| silvia s13 |
| interesting...im not sure i agree 100% with what you are saying but ill check into it. Is this a new law that was passed this year? |
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| keebler811 |
| It's not really new but because it is such a hot issue it's always being argued about in the Supreme Court, so that's why there are always recent cases dealing with it. Technically speaking it's not really a "law" at all, it's more of power given to police which people often challenge given the fact the Court says that it's sometimes okay for your rights to be violated. All it would take would be for one of those challenges to be successful and the Supreme Court would take checking if the driver is drunk off the list of approved things for a "random" stop. However, given all the attention that drunk driving gets, I don't think they will be reversing their position anytime soon. And in all fairness because drunk driving is such huge problem I agree that it is a good thing that cops can pull people over at random to check to see if they are drunk...but I would say it should be the exception and not the norm and the courts shouldn't go adding to that list for random stops without some serious thought. |
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| Honda_Finatic |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
first of all i drive a 98 neon with rims and white racing stripes and i have never had a ticket for anything at all, and all (well almost all) the racing i do is on the track. i found that especially when i had my rims on i was getting pulled over by the cops at least once a month. now the big thing is they would never have a reason to pull me over they would just ask the same questions " is this your car?" " have you been doing any racing tonight?" " is that exaust stock?" (it's not but i just say that the muffler needs to be replaced) and "if i search your car am i going to find anything i shouldn't?"... now the last time i got pulled over i asked for the oficers badge # but he didn't give it to me. now i wouldn't be so mad but it's annoying when i'm trying to get to work and i'm late because they keep me at the side of the road for ten minutes. does this happen to anyone else and has anyone ever complained about this?
In response to the this.... isnt a police officer obligated to give you his/her badge number? If not, i would mark down the cruiser he is in and file a complaint immediately. After reading the previous posts about what they are allowed to do, it seems like the cop knew he was being a f*ckwad. |
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