| shawley |
soo i got a ticket tonite for enlarged exhaust, the exhaust that came on my car from japan when it was imported, it's not even big, what are some things to say at my court date to get it taken out?
cus i know the police tiburon has like dual 3inch tips and is driven on the road, "the cop tonite tryed telling me they get SPECIAL PERMETS to drive it on the roads" which is total bull shit
i'm just made because we were all pulled over on the side of the road just waiting for other ppl to come, and then we saw a cop stop and wait, then after a bit we all left, we were all driving at the speed limit
then cops come out of nowhere on anthony henday and pulled us all over, said they had reports of racing, and we were not, we were just on a cruise form uc to west ed, down the new road, then back to uc. and then the cops (4 or 5 cars) gave all of us exhaust tickets, and everyone with tint got tint tickets, like over $1500 in tickets were handed out for no reason.
EPS FUCKING BLOWS, if they have 5 cop cars pulling over kids to give them exhaust tickets and none out looking for car theives or stolen vehicles or shit like that, fucking dumb |
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| shawley |
cop also told me the law with exhaust was that no modifications were legal, it had to stay stock,
that is not true
i thought the law was inlet has to be the same side as the outlet.
i have no clue what the inlet/outlet sizes are on my car as it came like that from japan and i've owned it for a week or 2
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| littledan |
| welcome to edmonoton |
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| penance |
lol, that sucks!!!!!!!!!!
damn i'm glad i'm in vancouver, the cops don't give a shit about anybodies car mods ect. and the peace officers walk right past my rumbling exhaust & give me a slap on the wrist for tint |
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| 2003specv |
Pretty simple if you ask me. Go to court.
When it's your turn to ask the officer questions, ask him what the stock exhaust size is for a Skyline. Then laugh later when the idiot can't come up with an answer. Also tell the judge that the car was imported like that and it passed the OOP inspection with no problem. I don't see how he couldn't see it your way.:dunno: |
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| 2003specv |
| BTW Matt thanks for not calling me last night. Seriously, thanks. I didn't need any exhaust tickets.:thumbup: |
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| Praylewd powr |
hey, I wanted to get in on that picture, but the cop wanted me to leave ASAP. He was such an asshat about it all. I got a ticket for window tint and a ticket for sec 61(2) exhaust widening.
I journalled everything after I got home last night and am of course going to pay the tint ticket because I have tinted windows.....but I am going to court for the exhaust ticket. There have been so many threads about all this, but for my application, my aftermarket muffler (which the 61(2) makes no mention of) is in the tunnel in front of my rear LCA's and is a 3inch in 3 inch out muffler. I have not altered the outlet of the muffler as this law states, so wish me luck on Jan 12.
Anyone else going to court with me?
The cop didn't even make eye contact with me once and said that there was nothing else he could ticket me for...
Duane
:thumbup: |
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| Praylewd powr |
and I forgot to mention....I was told by the cop that though he didn't have a copy of the TSA with him, the maximum allowable exhaust size was 1.25 inches.
WTF?
Can someone show me where in the TSA this is outlined?
d |
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| sparkycivic |
| the cops are lying, which is the worst possible thing that they could do if they ever want to get the respect of the car enthusiast community. Lying hypocrites. EPS: Edmonton Pisoff "Service". Why are we paying these jackoffs to waste the resources of the court system that are better spent putting child rapists away. somebody should write the Edmonton Journal about this harassment and gross discrimination against people with shiny cars. |
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| ehos |
That's wierd, we were 'testing' the boost on my FD on A. Henday.
I passed a cop and he gave my car a thumbs up (stock exhaust though). |
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| shawley |
i'll be in court on the 12th
the dumbass cop said any mod to exhaust is illegal, and i said no it's about the inlet and outlet, i said my uncles company car has dual 4 inch off the headders into some resonators then 4inch out to 4inch tips, 100% legal approved by the police. the cop had nothing to say he was a fucking idiot. as soon as i started bringing up the tiburon and it's tips up he didn't know what to say.
but i the cop was good with me since i didn't have registration yet, but i do have a bill of sale, insurance, dealer plate with insurance on it, and had a business card of whos plate it was and the dealer plate of whos it was was ina car 3 cars ahead of me. (waiting on parts from japan to pass oop)
Praylewd powr what car were u in?
we all just went to the tim hortons in riverebnd,
worst thing was our frined ryan (the dude that always drives the rusty old charger 1968) well he was driving his work truck a shitty ford ranger, cus hes building up his new charger. and he was with us, they let him go by, and then stopped everyone after him, even some stock civic that wasn't even with us got pulled over too hahaha
think i should tell them it's the Type-M skyline exhaust package? |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| im fighting my exhaust ticket on this coming wednesday.. I would suggest sending that pic of you guys into the sun with a letter stating youve found the reason edmonton has a record high homocide this count, because they like to travel in packs of 5 or 6 cars to pull some kids over because of thier exhausts... meanwhile a double and triple stabbing happens at a southside club...GOOD JOB EPS YOUR A VALUABLE ASSET TO THE EARS OF OLD PPL WHO DONT LIKE THE SOUND OF OUR EXHAUSTS...but let the mother of the kids who are dying know why thier kid couldnt be saved because you were out picking on kids with 4" exhausts.. |
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| shawley |
did something happen last night int he words of a murder? or anything?
or r u jsut saying that
i'm fighting mine, we have better pics, those ones were from a cell phone, but jeremey (black sti) has pics on his digital camera we jsut need him to send to all of us.
but we should get matt to take it into the journal and write something up, including all the badge numbers and cops names |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| there was a double or triple stabbing at standard either saturday or friday night i dont remember which one.. but the homocide count went up by one this weekend. |
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| Soulfly |
To Serve and Protect Bitches!!
haha.. That's So Lame... Cop's should be watching over the bars.. not handing out exhaust tickets...
blah bla blahhh..
I was supposed to go out too.. Glad I didn't.. :thumbup: |
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| baker_jeff |
| Hey guys.... my apologies to everyone that got busted last night. James (Silver FC) and I left early cause I had to get back to Whyte Ave. We were going the speed limit luckily, and saw the cops hiding behind those barriers, and they just ignored us. We busted ass on our phones trying to find numbers for anyone behind us, but unfortunately couldnt find any, so I just flew back down Henday the other direction to try and warn you guys, but by the time I got there it was too late.... at least they didnt tow anyones cars or anything like that for racing or some bullshit.:( |
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| shawley |
jeff ur cars a 91?? isn't that ilegal right now? or is that a spelling error lol
we saw james and some other car fly by us, right before we left, and he was flying the other direction, before u guys left we saw a cop behind us and figured the cops would be waiting at the end, or something, but were dumb and kept going
we all should of turned left at that light and gone through the residental to get out if there was no one waiting for us there |
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| baker_jeff |
| Woops yeah, its a 90. |
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| 2HIGH~PSI |
yeah thats bullshit....this city's getting so retarded with homocides and *wanna-be 50-cent's* and everybody is stabbing or shooting eachother, and the cops are worried about some guy who is on a freeway with a loud exhaust....
i wonder what the statistics are for people dying because of loud exhaust vs homocides this year:rolleyes: |
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| Praylewd powr |
Shawley, I was the silver civic hatchback/black rims, etc beside you when we were pulled over. Like I said before, according to the wording of 61(2) my exhaust does not warrant that violation. I am pleading guilty to the tinting of course and I expected that ticket but I built the exhaust this way in order to avoid this type of violation.
We will just have to see how jan 12 goes....
Duane. |
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| shawley |
yea i thought that was you
stupid cop thought my passanger was driving untill he ducked down and saw i was on the other side lol |
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| Wookey |
| Atleast i came out ticket free:thumbup: damn im lucky. |
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| Honda_Finatic |
| you people ever watch "COPS"? you always see the officers taking real criminals down, being shot at etc. We have our episodes of "To Serve and Protect". Some of them take place in Edmonton. They dont take down true criminals. Instead, they go around picking up drunks, and handling domestic disputes. That show is proof of what our police force is capable of. |
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| droppedatbirth |
what about a petition? or whatever its called....can't you change a law if you get enough people to sign it?
i lost respect for any cops after my series of tickets/cops not showing up for 4 hours after a major accident/cop trying to get me to race him so he can give me a street racing ticket
i say we do something to change the law....or if all else fails go egg the police station. |
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| 2003specv |
| You know what's funny? I guarantee you they've checked out these 2 threads.:thefinger |
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| shorti |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
I would suggest sending that pic of you guys into the sun with a letter stating youve found the reason edmonton has a record high homocide this count, because they like to travel in packs of 5 or 6 cars to pull some kids over because of thier exhausts... meanwhile a double and triple stabbing happens at a southside club...
I think this is a great idea, send a good pic and the story to a newspaper.
I really don't understand why they have all these police cars wasting time with exaust tickets, especially on Anthony Henday, where there are no houses around. |
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| noriceforme |
for all the people that got these tickets ( including myself) do you think if we all booked our court dates on the same day that the judge would just throw all of them out???? would be nice but prolly wont happen. were prolly stronger in a pack then singled out on diffrent days!:dunno:
oh yeah my exhaust is new but hasnt been widened in anyway, i didnt even put that stinking fart can on!!! I always get followd by cops makes me wanna buy a grandpa car. some cops are nice i have found that out but the ones last night honestly wernt using there fookin heads!!!!
^^^^ shorti
funny you should mention (with all the houses around) cuz thats exactly what the one cop said, " neighbors have been complaining about loud noisy street races happening hear" and i look around going wtf mate...:blink: |
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| shorti |
quote:
Originally posted by noriceforme
^^^^ shorti
funny you should mention (with all the houses around) cuz thats exactly what the one cop said, " neighbors have been complaining about loud noisy street races happening hear" and i look around going wtf mate...:blink:
When you go to court tell the judge that, then ask the cop which houses on AH the complaints came from. He'll look like an asshat. |
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| shawley |
theres no point in asking where the complaints were from because we were not racing, nor were we charged with anything to do with "racing".
but the one cop when i was questioning him about the exhaust law he said he didn't have enough information on the law to answer the questions, so how did he have enough information to to be able to give me a ticket if he didn't know the law well enough to answer some simple questions |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
use that in court.. for mine on wednesday i just plan on stating:
(4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by
an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler, the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.
As far as I read it, It doesn't say anything about you not being allowed to exchange your factory muffler for an aftermarket one. It just says that you can't open or widen the exhaust outlet of your muffler. I would argue that if you purchased an aftermarket exhaust system pre-built and _didn't_ open nor widen the exhaust outlet of the muffler that you aren't in violation of this law. |
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| charger_guy |
| haha i came out ticket free.....Im ryan who drove the strocker ford ranger...lol......thank god i never drove my charger which has dual 3 inch exhaust....lol....cops are fing retarded today.... |
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| shawley |
ryan u asshold, lead of the pack and they don't pull you over because ur in a truck, now hmmmmm
if i was in my old truck would i of gotten pulled over? |
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| ~30oZ~ |
| That sucks guys! Thanks god my car was sleeping for winter lol but yeah I guess you just have to hope for the best....when I was in court like a month ago this guy showed the crown the tint ticket,and exhaust ticket he got on night....the crown just laughed and through out both of his tickets:dunno: maybe you'll get lucky too:thumbup: |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by shawley
Dear god that's pathetic. Seriously somebody should email these pics and the story to one of the papers with some links to the murders that took place this weekend.
And for the guys that got the tickets. Write down everything that happened, all the questions you asked the officers, all of their responses (particularly the points about the officer's ignorance of the law and your vehicles), all the little details and then take it to court. I'd say that you should all try and get trials, and then everyone show up for each trial (if you've got the time) and be witnesses for each other.
http://www.canada.com/calgary/calga...b9-7b83ef2ad6ba
"Police are investigating the deaths of two teenagers who were killed at weekend house parties.
Early Saturday, a 17-year-old boy was beaten to death by a group of thugs who were kicked out of a house party in Sherwood Park, near Edmonton.
Also on the weekend, a 17-year-old boy was fatally stabbed at a house party in the Edmonton region on the weekend." |
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| red88.n/a.rx |
you guys sound like a bunch of kids....
Quit complaining and pay your damn tint ticket because you broke the law its illegal and since you gave them a reason to pull you over then you deserve the exhaust ticket aswell... like really fight the exhaust one but im sure its not the stock exhaust on a 16 year old car.
as for the police tiburon exhaust theres your answer right there... the police make the laws they dont give a fuck thell break them as they please. |
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| Praylewd powr |
| I am definately paying my tinting ticket...unless they decide to throw it out; but I am fighting the exhaust ticket for obvious reasons. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
haha i came out ticket free.....Im ryan who drove the strocker ford ranger...lol......thank god i never drove my charger which has dual 3 inch exhaust....lol....cops are fing retarded today....
I've yet to find a cop willing to give me a ticket for my 3" duals in my Z28, even with my cutout wide open, so I'm sure you woulda been OK. |
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| shawley |
quote:
Originally posted by red88.n/a.rx
you guys sound like a bunch of kids....
Quit complaining and pay your damn tint ticket because you broke the law its illegal and since you gave them a reason to pull you over then you deserve the exhaust ticket aswell... like really fight the exhaust one but im sure its not the stock exhaust on a 16 year old car.
as for the police tiburon exhaust theres your answer right there... the police make the laws they dont give a fuck thell break them as they please.
dude, they had no reason to pull us over, they suspected street racing, which we were not doing, it would be dumb there as mentioned before my friends brother smoked a deer there the night before.
and my exhaust, yea prob not stock, but the tip is the same size as the rest of my exhaust piping so i should no be getting a ticket.
and the police tiburon they even told me it was illegal for them to take it on the road and that they needer it trailered or special permision to ahve it on the roads.
eventhough no one has told me that before when i've talked to the driver of the car at the track and on the road, and out at uc aswell |
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| charger_guy |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
I've yet to find a cop willing to give me a ticket for my 3" duals in my Z28, even with my cutout wide open, so I'm sure you woulda been OK.
lol dude i'll have a big block running an insane cam profile pushing over 600 rwhp...lol...of course ur z28 wouldn't sound like it....its a small block...my 318 would have sound as loud as ur camaro...lol....if i open the cuts on the street........close ur ears....lol:dunno: :bowdown: |
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| Buddyworm |
Guys, seriously. Quit beating a dead horse and send those pictures and the story to the newspapers. Be sure to highlight the stabbings at the bars and elsewhere versus the obscene amounts of tickets that were handed out. The EPS has been getting plenty of bad press lately and the newspapers will lap this stuff up.
B-Wurm :D |
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| kypraio |
quote:
Originally posted by red88.n/a.rx
you guys sound like a bunch of kids....
Quit complaining and pay your damn tint ticket because you broke the law its illegal and since you gave them a reason to pull you over then you deserve the exhaust ticket aswell... like really fight the exhaust one but im sure its not the stock exhaust on a 16 year old car.
as for the police tiburon exhaust theres your answer right there... the police make the laws they dont give a fuck thell break them as they please.
I'm with you, you guys just keep whining about the same damn thing. I'm surprised this hasn't become a topic that gets a "REPOST" under the first reply because it comes up so much. Just deal with it, honestly if the law says no aftermarket muffler or enlarged tip and clearly your car has one then face the consequences and pay the thing or fight it how you want. They don't care that your car "apparently needs" a bigger exhaust for all that extra omg so big horsepower. The law is the law and your breaking it so they can give you a ticket all they want. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by kypraio
Just deal with it, honestly if the law says no aftermarket muffler..... The law is the law and your breaking it so they can give you a ticket all they want.
Before making comments like this you might want to take the time to actually read the law. :rolleyes: |
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| kypraio |
| I was just giving a basic example. Bottom line is you guys are just trying to twist the actual law to make it sound the way you want it to sound. 4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler, the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened. What do you honestly think they meant when making this that people would actual try to take a pair of pliers and open their muffler tips. We all know what they really mean by this law. But all you guys are doing is twisting it to make it sound oh so wrong and "stupid". Sure the wording might be a bit off in the actual law but we all know what it means. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by kypraio
I was just giving a basic example. 4) No person shall drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine equipped with a muffler, the exhaust outlet of which has been opened or widened.
good boy... so it states that you can't have an enlarged exhaust outlet, now where does it state that an aftermarket exhaust is illegal? ;) |
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| kypraio |
| hmm maybe if you read the rest of my post you would understand what i was saying. :rolleyes: We all have our own opinions. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by kypraio
hmm maybe if you read the rest of my post you would understand what i was saying. :rolleyes: We all have our own opinions.
:p
Like you said, the law is the law, and if you don't know the law then eventually you're going to get screwed by somebody in a position of authority who is equally ignorant of the law.
The bottom line is that you can have an aftermarket exhaust provided it doesn't have a tip/outlet that is wider than stock. ;) |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
:p
Like you said, the law is the law, and if you don't know the law then eventually you're going to get screwed by somebody in a position of authority who is equally ignorant of the law.
The bottom line is that you can have an aftermarket exhaust provided it doesn't have a tip/outlet that is wider than stock. ;)
ok tell me where in the law it states it cant be wider then stock.. i believe the words are you cant have an outlet that has been widened.. so basicly i interpret that as me buying an aftermarket 4" exhaust and widening it to 5" at my own will.. |
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| curtis_rak |
Section 61 of the Vehicle Equpment Regulation...
Mufflers
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
(4) This section applies to a power bicycle that is propelled by an internal combustion engine. |
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| DelSoln |
quote:
Originally posted by curtis_rak
Section 61 of the Vehicle Equpment Regulation...
Mufflers
61(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
This is the grey area which is obviously up for debate. No where does it say it must conform to stock like some prosecutors claim. If it did there would be no grey area and thus fighting the ticket would be near impossible. I think 92_WhItE_H23's defence is a good one if presented in a professional manner. |
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| shawley |
| mine, the inlet is the same as the outlet, the outlet might be like another .5inches bigger at most |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by DelSoln
This is the grey area which is obviously up for debate. No where does it say it must conform to stock like some prosecutors claim. If it did there would be no grey area and thus fighting the ticket would be near impossible. I think 92_WhItE_H23's defence is a good one if presented in a professional manner.
The section states that "...if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened."
There really is no grey area - if the exhaust outlet has been widened from the stock size, then you are legally able to be ticketed.
If you have an aftermarket exhaust with the same outlet size as stock, then under these regulations you will be OK. However, I highly doubt many people put a 1.75" or 2.25" tip on their aftermarket muffler. |
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| shorti |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
There really is no grey area - if the exhaust outlet has been widened from the stock size, then you are legally able to be ticketed.
can you point out where is exactly says "stock" in the law
i can't seem to find it |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by shorti
can you point out where is exactly says "stock" in the law
i can't seem to find it
61(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
This states that you can not operate a motor vehicle if the exhaust outlet has been widened.
It does not need to state "stock" - it just states if it has been widened.
It is implied that it is "widened from stock" (I use 'stock' because it is a term a car person can relate to. You can replace it with OEM, factory, new, etc...), however to create less wording it is just down to "widened". |
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| DelSoln |
| If there is no grey area explain to us how people often win when they present their argument to the judge. |
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| Charles_00civic |
| Cops are retarded. Cops are gay. Cops enjoy pulling us over. However, being arrogant and showing no "remorse" for what you were "doing" will not help your case. My neghbour was a constable then he rose to manage the west end one. He otld me mine was okay. However, its outlet is the same size as stock, except for ma few vents. The niose is louder but not insanely loud. I can understand those 4" outlets some people have. They're asking for a ticket. I think we should all stick the silencers in for meets. In a group we dont want to attract attention. Oh, he said when the cop comes, be repsectful and dont try to pretend your all calm and not flustrated. If they see this they'll tens to be les sleniant. I just tell em my dad's name cause anyone whose sold a house known him, or give him my reguistration/license wallet which incidentally also contains my neighbours old business card. They ask me how i knoe him then they say, whell, if Ken approved it then I'll let it go. lol. Just tell them you went to the station and were told if you put the silencer in that you'd be okay. Lie. lol. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
61(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
This states that you can not operate a motor vehicle if the exhaust outlet has been widened.
It does not need to state "stock" - it just states if it has been widened.
It is implied that it is "widened from stock" (I use 'stock' because it is a term a car person can relate to. You can replace it with OEM, factory, new, etc...), however to create less wording it is just down to "widened".
laws MUST be clearly stated my friend. you cant assume ANYTHING when it comes to laws.. yes a judges job is to interpret these laws but to say its been "widened" can mean a SHIT load of things and you cant just assume it means from factory outlet. if thats the case what if a guys exhaust breaks off.. he needs a new one.. his stock one was one of those like 3/4" outlets and he buys a 1.5" exhaust from dealership... he has now just widened it from stock according to your interpretation does he now deserve the fine?? no he doesnt. the law is retarded and makes no sense other then to stereotype people who drive the types of cars we drive its plain and simple. if they want to crack down then issue NOISE violations not these BS tickets.. a noise ticket is understandable.. my exhaust isnt loud unless your reefing on it but all cars get loud when you pound them. |
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| sparkycivic |
unless the law "61(2)" SPECIFICALLY states that the exhaust outlet must be a CERTAIN size (such as x centimeters), or that it conform to an appendixed reference table of production-issue exhaust outlet sizes for every car, then IT CAN'T BE technically valid because "widened" is a RELATIVE WORD requiring a reference. just as i wouldn't ever try to argue to you that "230 is greater than" because I haven't stated the reference point for comparison.
this is the legally-proven reality that we already know to be true as shown in other members' previous court dealings about this.
What i would really like to see is information about how to find the records of the previous court cases where tuners were able to get the widened exhaust tickets thrown-out. how does one search for that? is it on the net? is that something that I could go to a courthouse and ask for? Or maybe that is something that a magistrate could find during the initial visit so that there need not be any subsequent visits on the matter :D .
***Can anyone answer this one? |
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| 95IntegraRS |
| Once I beat the ones I got a couple months ago in January, I will post the all the court information possible in order to make it easier to referance for members of 780. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
61(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
This states that you can not operate a motor vehicle if the exhaust outlet has been widened.
It does not need to state "stock" - it just states if it has been widened.
It is implied that it is "widened from stock" (I use 'stock' because it is a term a car person can relate to. You can replace it with OEM, factory, new, etc...), however to create less wording it is just down to "widened".
Yup. The baseline for comparison is the original condition of the vehicle.... which actually makes for an interesting argument with regards to imported vehicles.
...although I suppose I can see why some people would think it should be more clearly stated, I mean they have to have disclaimers on Jeep commercials that specifiy that the vehicle isn't intended for underwater use. :p |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
laws MUST be clearly stated my friend. you cant assume ANYTHING when it comes to laws.. yes a judges job is to interpret these laws
I'm glad you realize it - the laws are stated and common sense is applied by the judge. Thanks for the agreement.
Here is the definition for:
Correction of child by force
43. Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.
Now, it doesn't clearly state that you can't beat your child. Are you implying that because it's not clearly stated, you can go ahead and do it?
quote:
but to say its been "widened" can mean a SHIT load of things
"widened" can only mean one thing.
It's the application of the term - because no reference point is stated in bold. You can argue that "...my car came with an aftermarket 3" exhaust tip and I put a 2.5" tip on it. So I in fact didn't widen it....", however the judge will use common sense and decide that your exhaust is still modified illegally.
quote:
and you cant just assume it means from factory outlet.
That's common sense that most judges will apply. Hell, even you probably recognize that's what the law means, you just don't care to admit it.
quote:
if thats the case what if a guys exhaust breaks off.. he needs a new one.. his stock one was one of those like 3/4" outlets and he buys a 1.5" exhaust from dealership... he has now just widened it from stock according to your interpretation does he now deserve the fine??
He's obviously committed the offense. However, he'd never get a ticket because the loudness of his exhaust will not noticeably go up. Last time I was at the muffler shop, they replaced all cars with the same tip size they came in with as well....
quote:
the law is retarded and makes no sense other then to stereotype people who drive the types of cars we drive its plain and simple.
As I said before, it's to give the police a reason to pull over poor drivers. If you are a responsible driver, keep the rev's low, you will not get pulled over.
quote:
if they want to crack down then issue NOISE violations not these BS tickets.. a noise ticket is understandable..
A noise is a bylaw ticket, the exhaust is a HTA ticket. Two completely seperate types governed by two seperate bodies.
quote:
my exhaust isnt loud unless your reefing on it but all cars get loud when you pound them. [/B]
That's where you are wrong - not all cars are loud when you step on it. Most cars are designed to be quiet and smooth.
Now, any car with an aftermarket exhaust will most likely be loud when you step on it.
The bottom line is to use COMMON SENSE. 98% of people who get the exhaust ticket read the law, and can understand how it applies to them. They fight it, however they still know that the law applies to them. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by DelSoln
If there is no grey area explain to us how people often win when they present their argument to the judge.
Because our justice system caters to giving people a second chance, or third/fourth/fifth/sixth. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
A noise is a bylaw ticket, the exhaust is a HTA ticket. Two completely seperate types governed by two seperate bodies.
Actually they can nail you for noise under 61(1) of the VER, or 46(1) of the HTA. This is a bit more likely than a bylaw ticket. |
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| WheelsSpinnin |
| ohh i see your a judge... maybe you can write a letter to the governments exlpaining youd like a few other judges fired for misinterpreting the law you know so well when they let others with exhaust tickets go for the reasons i stated.. |
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| WheelsSpinnin |
| oops brothers account.... that was 92_white_h23 |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by WheelsSpinnin
ohh i see your a judge... maybe you can write a letter to the governments exlpaining youd like a few other judges fired for misinterpreting the law you know so well when they let others with exhaust tickets go for the reasons i stated..
It's up to the judges discretion - that's why they are entrusted with the power they are.
I'm not saying people don't get off - but it's not typically because the judge agrees their 5" tip is good and legal. It's usually for another reason (Cop didn't measure tip, can't recall clearly, etc...).
It all comes down to common sense. The problem is that people are passionately against the issue - so they are not able to step back and see it for what it is.
Just like anything else in life - you can't see the whole situation until you seperate the emotions involved. And typically when you're completely on one side of the issue, you can't see the other. That's what the judge is there for - to interpret the issue (Between the law (the police officer) and you) and decide what is fair and appropriate.
If you don't like the exhaust tip law, why not take steps to have it changed? As a citizen you are entitled to have your opinion heard, and if you can get enough support the law will be changed. |
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| kypraio |
| ^^^ well put. I think a lot of this drama is the fact that nobody wants to admit what they've done. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by kypraio
^^^ well put. I think a lot of this drama is the fact that nobody wants to admit what they've done.
whats this crap you keep talking like we are law breaking unvalued citzens.. the law is useless it serves no purpose other then to limit people who have this particular hobby. i shouldnt have to go to court for this because the law never should have been passed in the first place... sure i realise i may be breaking the law by having this exhaust but whose to say exactly what the law means... im hoping i get a judge who agrees with my evidence.. in that case IM right and your wrong..plain and simple.. a law can be interpreted many ways so you cant just say a 4" exhaust is illegal.. you can only say the exhaust is illegal if its been widened and proven to be so in court.. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by 92_WhItE_H23
whats this crap you keep talking like we are law breaking unvalued citzens..
You are breaking the law, according to the police officer who issued the ticket and is entrusted with the responsibility of making sure the law is followed. I'm sure you can see that?
That is why you receive the ticket. You don't get one for no reason. The officer, who in entrusted by the people, believes you are guilty of the infraction.
quote:
the law is useless it serves no purpose other then to limit people who have this particular hobby. i shouldnt have to go to court for this because the law never should have been passed in the first place...
Again, quit bitching and do something about it. If you don't like it, there are ways within our society to go about trying to get it changed.
quote:
im hoping i get a judge who agrees with my evidence..
in that case IM right and your wrong..plain and simple..a law can be interpreted many ways so you cant just say a 4" exhaust is illegal.. [/B]
It's not that the law is being interpretted differently and you'll get off, it's that the circumstances surrounding the case may not be acceptable to the judge.
Facts:
- You have an exhaust tip larger than stock
- Your exhaust is louder than stock
Can you agree to those facts?
What you're doing is going into court, hoping the cop doesn't show, hoping the cops notes don't reflect what happened, hoping that if you've had the tip removed the charge will be dropped, etc....
I'm not disputing people get off, but what I'm saying is that, if you walked in and told the facts as above then you're going to be found guilty.
The law is there - but where people get off is not that the facts are wrong, it's that the circumstances and evidence presented is not acceptable to the judge. It doesn't make what you did any less wrong, it just means that you got away with it.
Let's face it - you know what the law means and how it is to be interpretted. You are just argueing it because, as I stated above. you are passionate about the one side and can't step back and look at the big picture. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
You are breaking the law, according to the police officer who issued the ticket and is entrusted with the responsibility of making sure the law is followed. I'm sure you can see that?
That is why you receive the ticket. You don't get one for no reason. The officer, who in entrusted by the people, believes you are guilty of the infraction.
Again, quit bitching and do something about it. If you don't like it, there are ways within our society to go about trying to get it changed.
It's not that the law is being interpretted differently and you'll get off, it's that the circumstances surrounding the case may not be acceptable to the judge.
Facts:
- You have an exhaust tip larger than stock
- Your exhaust is louder than stock
Can you agree to those facts?
What you're doing is going into court, hoping the cop doesn't show, hoping the cops notes don't reflect what happened, hoping that if you've had the tip removed the charge will be dropped, etc....
I'm not disputing people get off, but what I'm saying is that, if you walked in and told the facts as above then you're going to be found guilty.
The law is there - but where people get off is not that the facts are wrong, it's that the circumstances and evidence presented is not acceptable to the judge. It doesn't make what you did any less wrong, it just means that you got away with it.
Let's face it - you know what the law means and how it is to be interpretted. You are just argueing it because, as I stated above. you are passionate about the one side and can't step back and look at the big picture. [/B]
i see the big picture... and my point of view is that the law is useless so i fought it. other then that i have no time to go about changing it id rather just pay the 115 and get it over with.. doesnt mean the law isnt stereotypical. ive never in my life seen a truck with a 5" outlet get a ticket or a motorcyclist get one of these tickets yet they all have the big outlets put on AFTER stock. the law is aimed at anyone 25 and younger who likes to beef up thier cars because some of them become a danger on the road and this is a good way to piss ppl off enough to get out of it.
anyways my exhaust ticket was dropped pre trial so i never went to trial with it. i made a deal on the speeding ticket to pay less... gg all this is my last post in this thread |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Umm Trevor.. in Alberta there is no such thing as a HTA any more... we have the Traffic safety act and the vehicle equipment regulations. Or what ever they're called...
Here's one.. well two...
I put an SRT4 exhaust on my Neon LE, now it's been DOT approved for basically a turbo version of my car, the exhaust pipe and tip are the same as my stock.. there's just a second tip.
I was followed by the cops once, no tickets.. but I was damn careful on how I accelerated.. cause yes I'll admit she was loud if I did so... I have a sound clip....
Since we're on the subject... Ok, so it's illegal to enlarge your tip ok fine.. is it also illegal to add a second tip...
example my fifth.. it has a single 2.25" tip so to speak, not flashy, can't see it unless you crawl under the car. I want to go to a duel exhaust.. most likely I'll be keeping them both the same size - 2.25". Now I already have an aftermarket muffler and I'd say it's no more than 1 db louder than stock under normal driving conditions. If I rev it like at the meet.. then it might be 1 -2db louder than stock. With the duels and a header, I don't forsee it being much louder than what it is now. So noise not being a factor......
*edit
For all of you who wanna know what a SRT4 exhaust sounds like on a n/a Neon here ya go
A couple wot runs.. yes I blew a shift the first time, it's 3 wot then putting up a hill and around a couple curves. Was done with adv camcorder sitting on my dash.
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| REFLUX |
Bitch bitch whine whine.
If you got a ticket & think it was unfair, go fight it.
If you lose, STFU.
If you win, do yourself & the SCC community a favor and post up a detailed explanation of how you won.
That way others can benefit from it as well.
Maybe it's possible that it's not EXACTLY the muffler that yielded you a ticket but rather a stereotype against Young car enthusiasts driving around on a freshly laid highway.
Think of it:
Young + sports car + long stretch of relatively empty road + weekend night + with other Young guys with sports cars
What is the FIRST thing that would come to mind if you were a police officer?
Of course it isn't correct to stereotype but it's Impossible to avoid. Even unconsciously we all do it.
I have an aftermarket exhaust.
It's not stock quiet.
Nor is it stock diameter.
I've driven directly in front of police officers plenty of times.
I've even cruised with another car with an exhaust 5x as loud as mine in front of police officers.
Zero tickets.
Why is that?
Cuz I rarely ever cruise around in the middle of the night on a weekend with a whole bunch of other sports cars.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe having an aftermarket exhaust is actually a high priority offence to police officers. What ARE high priority offences are High Speed Crashes.
Bystanders being run over.
Young guys being ripped apart as their car hops the median & is sliced in 2 by a pole or tree.
You were given an exhaust ticket because you were doing something at a certain time that is deemed to be risky and it has a high probability of danger associated with it.
It sucks to be at the wrong place at the wrong time but if you really think about it, a ticket could have been avoided at the cost of not having as fun an evening.
[/rant] |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
Bitch bitch whine whine.
If you got a ticket & think it was unfair, go fight it.
If you lose, STFU.
If you win, do yourself & the SCC community a favor and post up a detailed explanation of how you won.
That way others can benefit from it as well.
Maybe it's possible that it's not EXACTLY the muffler that yielded you a ticket but rather a stereotype against Young car enthusiasts driving around on a freshly laid highway.
Think of it:
Young + sports car + long stretch of relatively empty road + weekend night + with other Young guys with sports cars
What is the FIRST thing that would come to mind if you were a police officer?
Of course it isn't correct to stereotype but it's Impossible to avoid. Even unconsciously we all do it.
I have an aftermarket exhaust.
It's not stock quiet.
Nor is it stock diameter.
I've driven directly in front of police officers plenty of times.
I've even cruised with another car with an exhaust 5x as loud as mine in front of police officers.
Zero tickets.
Why is that?
Cuz I rarely ever cruise around in the middle of the night on a weekend with a whole bunch of other sports cars.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't believe having an aftermarket exhaust is actually a high priority offence to police officers. What ARE high priority offences are High Speed Crashes.
Bystanders being run over.
Young guys being ripped apart as their car hops the median & is sliced in 2 by a pole or tree.
You were given an exhaust ticket because you were doing something at a certain time that is deemed to be risky and it has a high probability of danger associated with it.
It sucks to be at the wrong place at the wrong time but if you really think about it, a ticket could have been avoided at the cost of not having as fun an evening.
[/rant]
Agreed with you 100%. Ive had the same exhaust for 2 years this is my first ticket for it. It was a sunday afternoon and i was just going to the movies with my GF. I can understand had i been in a pack of cars who were cruisin like dinks up and down the whitemud. oh well ill pay my fine and be on my way.. what else is this site for other then to state your opinions right. if i dont agree with anyone elses opinion thats alrite i can just state my arguments listen to yours and at the end of the day its over we all go about our lives as usual hah |
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| REFLUX |
Haha that's a good way to put it! :)
It's just that sometimes people get so wound up over internet discussions, I mean come on it's not that big of a deal.
Live & learn (hopefully).
;) |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
Haha that's a good way to put it! :)
It's just that sometimes people get so wound up over internet discussions, I mean come on it's not that big of a deal.
Live & learn (hopefully).
;)
yea fo sho.. id rather vent over the net then take it out in person. this way ppl just type loudly rather then scream at you how wrong you are lol. its all good also for future reference: a driving at an unreasonable rate of speed carries NOOOO demerits as i was told it does.. =D |
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| superspeed |
| i almost got a exhaust ticket for being loud lol i just told her that i bought the car like this and i was on budjet and did not have enough money to buy quieter exhaust and explained how expensive it is to go to nissan to buy it and told her i would for sure get a quieter exhaust when i have more money LOL, she let me go =) and also be calm when u talk to them lol |
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| sparkycivic |
But what IS "stock"? How does one DEFINE "stock"? If "stock" is the official original specification then there surely must be a record of it somewhere yet, there is none. If "stock" is some fixed value that is valid for all vehicles, then it should be easy to define and everyone would be in agreement, still that's not the case.
The real reson that there are so many people upset on here is not that they hate the law and want to be able to have as big an outlet as they deem fashionable, but that they feel that it is UNFAIR that they should receive a ticket and fine for something that can best be described as "clear as mud".
I am not sure where the token v8 moderator gets his 'you deserve it becuase you were doing other things bad or suffer from poor timing. if a cop pulls you over because he thinks your exhaust is too loud, he would have written a ticket for having a loud exhaust, but this is not the case at all. the only tickets issued were for "widened exhaust outlet" so, ummm put some pie where it belongs, and quit changing the focus of the issue at hand, like so many politicians do these days. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Heh somebody should buy an electric car and just mount a fart cannon for the fun of it and see if they get a ticket :P
"but Sir, it's just for looks. it's not connected, this car doesn't have an exhaust"
"too bad here's your ticket" |
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| shawley |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
I'm glad you realize it - the laws are stated and common sense is applied by the judge. Thanks for the agreement.
Here is the definition for:
Correction of child by force
43. Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child, as the case may be, who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances.
Now, it doesn't clearly state that you can't beat your child. Are you implying that because it's not clearly stated, you can go ahead and do it?
"widened" can only mean one thing.
It's the application of the term - because no reference point is stated in bold. You can argue that "...my car came with an aftermarket 3" exhaust tip and I put a 2.5" tip on it. So I in fact didn't widen it....", however the judge will use common sense and decide that your exhaust is still modified illegally.
That's common sense that most judges will apply. Hell, even you probably recognize that's what the law means, you just don't care to admit it.
He's obviously committed the offense. However, he'd never get a ticket because the loudness of his exhaust will not noticeably go up. Last time I was at the muffler shop, they replaced all cars with the same tip size they came in with as well....
As I said before, it's to give the police a reason to pull over poor drivers. If you are a responsible driver, keep the rev's low, you will not get pulled over.
A noise is a bylaw ticket, the exhaust is a HTA ticket. Two completely seperate types governed by two seperate bodies.
That's where you are wrong - not all cars are loud when you step on it. Most cars are designed to be quiet and smooth.
Now, any car with an aftermarket exhaust will most likely be loud when you step on it.
The bottom line is to use COMMON SENSE. 98% of people who get the exhaust ticket read the law, and can understand how it applies to them. They fight it, however they still know that the law applies to them. [/B]
okay okay so your saying all this shit, like has to be stock
now my car, has 3inch tubo back exhaust and a 3 inch tip, it is a imported car, no stock exhaust on it, i do not have the stock exhaust, nor can i find anywhere what the stock size of it is, no one can find it.
so what can they do to me? inlet is same as outlet, i don't have a stock specs on it, nor can i find them what do i do? |
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| Charles_00civic |
| It's not about the exhaust boys. Its about how you drive your car. lol. Exhaust is an excuse to scare some sense into you. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by sparkycivic
The real reson that there are so many people upset on here is not that they hate the law and want to be able to have as big an outlet as they deem fashionable, but that they feel that it is UNFAIR that they should receive a ticket and fine for something that can best be described as "clear as mud".
At the scene, it is up to the police officers discretion as to whether the exhaust has been widened. He is entrusted with this power by the people of the city, and his opinion is to be based on his training and knowledge of the subject. If you disagree with him, you are then able to take it before a judge to decide. It all boils down to common sense - you aren't going to have a ticket stick for a 2" exhaust tip, but you may for a 3+" exhaust tip.
If people think the law is unclear, why do they not take steps to make it more clear? I assume the people who have the big tips realize that they may be targetted by the police for this reason, it's not as if they don't realize that their large tip is an issue (Seeing as how it's brought up on this forum weekly).
If they are willing to complain about this, but not willing to take steps to make the changes, then why bother complaining at all?
quote:
I am not sure where the token v8 moderator gets his 'you deserve it becuase you were doing other things bad or suffer from poor timing.
Other people here keep saying the exact same thing - when you drive responsible and don't attract attention, you will rarely, if ever, get a ticket for something such as exhaust modification.
I, like others, drive a car with an exhaust that at times is louder than 95% of the other cars on the road. Have I ever received a ticket? Been pulled over for it? Of course not. Because my driving habits don't warrant it.
Sure, if I was cruising Whyte/Jasper on the weekend with some buddies with similar modifications I might get a ticket. But I don't typically go looking for trouble, and if I did, I would accept the fact that I may be hassled because of my actions because they are part of a societal stereotype.
quote:
the only tickets issued were for "widened exhaust outlet" so, ummm put some pie where it belongs, and quit changing the focus of the issue at hand, like so many politicians do these days. [/B]
I don't see the issue - the cop believes, based on his training that your exhaust violations that section of the law. He believes your exhaust has been widened. That is his interpretation.
If you disagree, it's your right to take it before a judge. It's your right to attempt to change that law, to make it clearer for yourself and others.
But you can't deny, that when using common sense (Which is applied to almost every sort of legal situation), any aftermarket tip can be considered illegal by the legal authorities.
You can argue that you feel it's unfair, unjust, cash grab, stereotypes people, etc..... but when you go get that shiny chrome muffler and 4" tip, you know that it would violate the law in the eyes of those who are entrusted to enforce it. |
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| chris f |
I do also beleave that there is a law that goes somthing like this
Exhaust system can not have a stright through, baffaless muffler
Yet srt-4's come stock with two resonaters, stright throu. If its ilegal to put this type of exhaust on your car, what makes it legal to sell one that brakes the law off the bat? |
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| chris f |
I do also beleave that there is a law that goes somthing like this
Exhaust system can not have a stright through, baffaless muffler
Yet srt-4's come stock with two resonaters, stright throu. If its ilegal to put this type of exhaust on your car, what makes it legal to sell one that brakes the law off the bat? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
I do also beleave that there is a law that goes somthing like this
Exhaust system can not have a stright through, baffaless muffler
Yet srt-4's come stock with two resonaters, stright throu. If its ilegal to put this type of exhaust on your car, what makes it legal to sell one that brakes the law off the bat?
heh ya know whats funny bout that... The axle back section of an srt4 exhaust actually amplifies the noise.. atleast on a N/A car.. |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
Other people here keep saying the exact same thing - when you drive responsible and don't attract attention, you will rarely, if ever, get a ticket for something such as exhaust modification.
I, like others, drive a car with an exhaust that at times is louder than 95% of the other cars on the road. Have I ever received a ticket? Been pulled over for it? Of course not. Because my driving habits don't warrant it.
Sure, if I was cruising Whyte/Jasper on the weekend with some buddies with similar modifications I might get a ticket. But I don't typically go looking for trouble, and if I did, I would accept the fact that I may be hassled because of my actions because they are part of a societal stereotype.
[/B]
:thumbup: |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
:thumbup:
:thumbup: x2 |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by curtis_rak
Section 61 of the Vehicle Equpment Regulation...
Mufflers
61(1) A motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine must have an exhaust muffler that is cooling and expelling the exhaust gases from the engine without excessive noise and without producing flames or sparks.
(2) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if the exhaust outlet of the muffler has been widened.
(3) A person shall not drive or operate a motor vehicle propelled by an internal combustion engine if a device is attached to the exhaust system or the muffler that increases the noise made by the expulsion of gases from the engine or allows a flame to be ignited from the exhaust system.
(4) This section applies to a power bicycle that is propelled by an internal combustion engine.
Everyone's forgetting about subsection 3 (highlighted above). ALL of us with aftermarket exhausts could potentially be ticketed on the basis of #3, nevermind how many inches your tip is.
I haven't seen an aftermarket exhaust system yet that DOESN'T increase the noise level over stock.
(an old rusty holed-through stock exhaust notwithstanding). |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Everyone's forgetting about subsection 3 (highlighted above). ALL of us with aftermarket exhausts could potentially be ticketed on the basis of #3, nevermind how many inches your tip is.
I haven't seen an aftermarket exhaust system yet that DOESN'T increase the noise level over stock.
(an old rusty holed-through stock exhaust notwithstanding).
I'd be interested to see that one go to court considering you aren't attaching anything to the exhaust system, you're completely replacing it.... it would nail anybody stupid enough to clip on those whistle things though.
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| 2003specv |
| The whistles go WHOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! |
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| Supra_devil |
I really am getting a laugh at this thread, you all go out cruising, you say you weren't going to do anything (although i've heard differently from a few people) and got some cheap easy to get out of tickets. all the cops are trying to do is stop people from using Henday as a racing spot by having their presnce known on it NOW. so accept the fact that you can get out of most of the tickets and move on.
YES, the law is vague. YES, it leaves a lot up to the officer and judge. And maybe stereotypes will come into place there.
However having everyone argue back and forth on the situation won't help, if you recieved the ticket you should be talking to the other guys, researching the inlet/outlet sizes of your muffler, and piping and getting a plan together for the court date. Go to the courthouse and try to arrange as many of the hearings at one time as possible to back each other up on some facts/information if need be.
I have dealt with cops and the judicial system on much worse charges, vehicle and non, and never had an issue. |
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| noriceforme |
| what supra-devil said, my car is gonna be pretty much parked now since were gonna get crappy weathur, i might take it out if i got a urdge, but its just stupid how cops couldnt just warn us instead of writing out nearly 2 grand in 100 dollar tickets!!! |
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| shawley |
i truley don't care about the $100 ticket, i don't pay rent, only expence is my car so w/e,
but the fact that my tax dollars are going towards the fuck heads at the edmonton police force to come with 5 cars and a chopper on the henday just for exhaust and tint tickets
like seriousley what do we pay our police force to do, they are fucktards
like at my work, best buy, there were 2 cars left outside for the customers to come pick up their vehicles the next day (cus they were to lazy to pick it up saturday night) and turns out there were some drunks going on a rampage in a dodge ram pick up, and they smashed the shit out of both of the vehicles, and i guess about 11 other vehicles in the area, and the vehicle was found somewhere else,
now because our managers are nice we might be paying for the peoples dammage eventhough we are not responcibel for the ppls cars after we are done working on them and if they leave them over night
but like the cops said yea theres nothing we can do, no point in finger printing the truck they found, no point in doing anything, bla bla bla bla, they want some more donuts
well piggy go get some fucking donuts, while ppls cars are getting fucked up
come give me a exhaust ticket while some kid gets beatten to death at a house party and another kid is stabbed at another, like fuck you, go do something worth while instead of sending 5 cop cars out after us, send like 1 or 2 max, what a fucking waste of our money
like seriousley the fuckin eps is bull shit, and like over 14million dollars in 2004 for photoradar tickets, can't find anything to spend that money on, except sending cop cars after us for tint and exhaust seriousley |
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| youngbex |
| i odnt want to search through 7 pages of posts, but did you guys hear that the cops are going to generate a million more dollars in tickets? can you say clogged court rooms? |
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| charger_guy |
DO I NEED TO PULL THE PURSES OUT...lol
man its bad how far this has gone....lol.... |
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| icydude |
i dont understand how you guys manage to get tint and exhaust tickets.
I have been driving around all summer with cops present and no tickets for thatsstuff. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| all summer woopy youve managed a few months without tickets ive been driving 3 years like this |
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| icydude |
| point is its bright yellow......it sticks out like a white person in the bronx. |
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| shawley |
i drove from april, till sept, in my truck, with loud ass almost straight pipe echaust with dual 3inch huge tips, amazing crazy stereo, and speeding everywhere
no tickets
one cruise on anthony henday 2 weeks after it opens and i get a exhauste ticket |
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| beatshack |
| hey Duane... i just got an enlarged muffler outlet ticket too.. my exhaust is only 3.5" inches, for a 3" exhaust system.. its not loud either, its a turbo car... low mellow note.. anyway my court date is the day before yours.. good luck |
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