| snugs |
This made it onto the net on the weekend in the UK... now pretty much everybody has seen it.
"A "trophy" video appearing to show security guards in Baghdad randomly shooting Iraqi civilians has sparked two investigations after it was posted on the internet, the Sunday Telegraph can reveal.
The video has sparked concern that private security companies, which are not subject to any form of regulation either in Britain or in Iraq, could be responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent Iraqis."
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/11/27.html#a6076 |
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| S2000_rider |
| After watching this video, I watched the short vid of Juba sniping American soldiers...I feel better now. |
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| oldraven |
Ghastly!
So now mother Britain has gotten in on the action. Abu Ghraib was expected, but not from the #2 player in the Iraq war. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
After watching this video, I watched the short vid of Juba sniping American soldiers...I feel better now.
But........... these are Brits this time. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
But........... these are Brits this time.
Point made but they are all on the exact same team. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Ghastly!
So now mother Britain has gotten in on the action. Abu Ghraib was expected, but not from the #2 player in the Iraq war.
Its not the British soldiers, these were "contractors", like the Blackwater guys that got hung from the bridge a while back.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...27/ixworld.html
Guess nobody heard about the leaked memo in the UK last week that had the minutes of a conversation between Blair and GWB where Blair had to talk GWB out of bombing Al Jazeera's headquarters in Qatar (an ally country) either eh. :blink: |
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| Wask |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Point made but they are all on the exact same team.
So because of the actions of a few you are happy to see Americans and Brits being killed? If you have so much hate for them then get off your ass and go to Iraq and fight. Or are you just an arm chair terrorist? Since by your logic all Brits and Americans are the same does that mean that you are a women beater? Are you a wannabe terrorist? You enjoy seeing people hung in the street because they have a different opinion then yours? All Muslims are the same right, by your logic? Were you happy about the Canadian soilder that died recently because he was in Afghanistan? |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Wask
So because of the actions of a few you are happy to see Americans and Brits being killed? If you have so much hate for them then get off your ass and go to Iraq and fight. Or are you just an arm chair terrorist? Since by your logic all Brits and Americans are the same does that mean that you are a women beater? Are you a wannabe terrorist? You enjoy seeing people hung in the street because they have a different opinion then yours? All Muslims are the same right, by your logic? Were you happy about the Canadian soilder that died recently because he was in Afghanistan?
:blink: :blink: :blink:
 |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Wask
So because of the actions of a few you are happy to see Americans and Brits being killed? If you have so much hate for them then get off your ass and go to Iraq and fight. Or are you just an arm chair terrorist? Since by your logic all Brits and Americans are the same does that mean that you are a women beater? Are you a wannabe terrorist? You enjoy seeing people hung in the street because they have a different opinion then yours? All Muslims are the same right, by your logic? Were you happy about the Canadian soilder that died recently because he was in Afghanistan?
WTF?!?!?!?
Anger problems much?
Americans and Brits wouldn't HAVE to be killed if they weren't ILLEGALLY in Iraq on the first place.
For the record, I don't hate Americans or Brits. If I did, I would hate all my relatives living in Chicago, Queens, San Fran and Houston. I would also have to hate my grandparents living in London and very close friends living in Southall England.
I was referring to the American and British soldiers IN Iraq not altogether. Where you came with that idea I hate Americans and Brits on a whole I have no clue. I have never seen anyone hung on the street (<----Where the hell did this come from btw!?!?).
And lastly, I am one of the proudest Canadians you'll ever find. My 1st cousin in Toronto IS a practicing Muslim and a sergeant in the Canadian Army for the past 5 years!!!I was just in Toronto not even a few weeks ago and I'm always happy to hear how tolerant and respectful they are towards to him but that doesn't surprise me in the very last...We're Canadian. You want to hear something interesting!?!?! When I asked him what do his fellow commrades think of American Soldiers??? They strongly dislike them! He said some were actually happy as to what the American soldiers were going through in Iraq. Some said they would down right refuse to work along with them!
You're definetely a strange one :blink: :blink: :blink: |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Its not the British soldiers, these were "contractors", like the Blackwater guys that got hung from the bridge a while back.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...27/ixworld.html
Guess nobody heard about the leaked memo in the UK last week that had the minutes of a conversation between Blair and GWB where Blair had to talk GWB out of bombing Al Jazeera's headquarters in Qatar (an ally country) either eh. :blink:
Oh I heard about that alright. I didn't think it was coincidence that the Palestine Hotel was bombed in Iraq when Americans KNEW VERY WELL it was for journalists. Doesn't surprise me.
I wonder what would happen if the Iraqi Airforce (hahaha, none exists) flew over to the U.S. (never gonna happen) and bombed the FoxNews station. I wonder if that would make the news? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Americans and Brits wouldn't HAVE to be killed if they weren't ILLEGALLY in Iraq on the first place.
How is it ILLEGAL?
Iraq invaded Kuwait, Iraq got it's ass kicked.
After Iraq got it's ass kicked, they got parole so to speak. You break parole, another ass kicking will commence.
Iraq broke parole. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
How is it ILLEGAL?
Iraq invaded Kuwait, Iraq got it's ass kicked.
After Iraq got it's ass kicked, they got parole so to speak. You break parole, another ass kicking will commence.
Iraq broke parole.
Are you kidding me? Is this a joke?
WOW!?!?
Ever heard of anything like the UN?
If you remember correctly...THE BASIS OF WAR WAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
The UN inspectators were IN Iraq and did not find anything. They weren't able to complete the full search....why you ask? The U.S. told them to get the fuck out of there cause they already decided to bomb and occupy Iraq...again...ILLEGALLY!
Colin Powell was once highly respected but now is now highly regarded as an AssClown after his presentation to the UN (You remember this right?) Such a dedicated soldier reduced to a humilated shell of his former self.
Blair used a freaken student essay as supporting documents to go to war.
Here's a link anyhow....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm
Annan:
When pressed on whether he viewed the invasion of Iraq as illegal, he said: "Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal." |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Are you phuken kidding me? Is this a joke?
WOW!?!?
Ever heard of anything like the UN?
If you remember correctly...THE BASIS WAR WAS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
The UN inspectators were IN Iraq and did not find anything. They weren't able to complete the full search....why you ask? The U.S. told them to get the fuck out of there cause they already decided to bomb and occupy Iraq...again...ILLEGALLY!
Colin Powell was once highly respected but now is considered an AssClown after his presentation to the UN (You remember this right?) Such a dedicated soldier reduced to a humilated shell of his former self.
Blair used a freaken student essay as supporting documents to go to war.
Here's a link anyhow....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm
Yes I have heard of the UN, they are the ones that put Iraq on parole.
You make it sound like the inspectors had free roam when they were searching in Iraq, like Saddam gave them a skeleton key and told them to search to their hearts content.
Inspector:"We want to see what's in this complex"
Iraq:"Not today, come back in a week or two"
That right there is a violation of parole. This shit went on from the begining, you are correct that they never got to complete the search, too many locked doors.
The WMD pitch was used for the masses as a justification for the war, in a sense it isn't completely unfounded. If you think there are weapons behind a locked door you are supposed to have access to,under the conditions of parole, and you are CONTINUALLY denied access as requested, wouldn't you think something was fishy? |
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| v8killah |
| You have to admit it was pretty cool so watch an intire country get bombed on live tv. good entertainment. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by v8killah
You have to admit it was pretty cool so watch an intire country get bombed on live tv. good entertainment.
Wow...did you even read what you just wrote?
It's pretty cool to watch an "intire" country get bombed on TV?
Good entertainment? :blink: |
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| ehrgeiz |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Wow...did you even read what you just wrote?
It's pretty cool to watch an "intire" country get bombed on TV?
Good entertainment? :blink:
Fantastic entertainment... because it's Iraq. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
Yes I have heard of the UN, they are the ones that put Iraq on parole.
You make it sound like the inspectors had free roam when they were searching in Iraq, like Saddam gave them a skeleton key and told them to search to their hearts content.
Inspector:"We want to see what's in this complex"
Iraq:"Not today, come back in a week or two"
That right there is a violation of parole. This shit went on from the begining, you are correct that they never got to complete the search, too many locked doors.
The WMD pitch was used for the masses as a justification for the war, in a sense it isn't completely unfounded. If you think there are weapons behind a locked door you are supposed to have access to,under the conditions of parole, and you are CONTINUALLY denied access as requested, wouldn't you think something was fishy?
Amazing...because you have a HUNCH you're going to go to war...Prez Douche said that war was a last, last LAST option. He couldn't wait for a few more weeks to let the UN inspectators to finish up?
North Korea flat out KICKED the UN Inspectators OUT of NK. They stuck the mid finger to the US and stated probably...we HAVE Nuclear weapons...What did the U.S. do? Sit back and did nothing.
And please, don't say they are stretched to thin and when they are done with Iraq, they are going to deal with NK cause that's utter and complete bullshit. All the troops can return to the U.S. today and NK will not even be thought of...Why? Because they DO have WMD's and can reach the U.S....it's that simple.
To go to war with a country means destorying an entire country, killing 100's of 1000's of civilians. A country that was already destroyed in the earlier war and were crippled by UN sanctions that they had to resort to a food for oil campaign that was exploiting by the U.S., France, Britain etc. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Annan:
When pressed on whether he viewed the invasion of Iraq as illegal, he said: "Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."
You chose to quote Kofi Annan of all people?
I see you are a fan of quoting people. I like the one in your signature. Here's one for you.
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of Scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."
Omar Ahmad - co founder of the Council of American Islamic Relations
Now, I am not naive enough to use that statement as a basis for beliefs or opinions of muslim religion. I hope you are equally adept at seeing both sides of an issue, or reading what you can from both sides and THEN forming your opinion of what the truth is. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by ehrgeiz
Fantastic entertainment... because it's Iraq.
Are my posts like a light that attracts brain dead bugs to come in and get zapped?
ProDrag, not you...you try to have a dialogue, but these other morons...:dunno: |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Abu Ghraib was expected, but not from the #2 player in the Iraq war.
Let's keep things in perspective here, and remember what happened in Abu Ghraib before the americans were there. For that matter, let's keep in mind what is going on in Iraqi run prisons as you read this. As bad as it was for those prisoners to have their manliness made fun of and feelings hurt, it's a lot less serious than watching your sister raped while you have a broken thermometer put up your urethra.
Abu Ghraib is not about americans torturing the poor innocent Iraqis, but does show how messed up the american prison system is. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
You chose to quote Kofi Annan of all people?
I see you are a fan of quoting people. I like the one in your signature. Here's one for you.
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of Scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth."
Omar Ahmad - co founder of the Council of American Islamic Relations
Now, I am not naive enough to use that statement as a basis for beliefs or opinions of muslim religion. I hope you are equally adept at seeing both sides of an issue, or reading what you can from both sides and THEN forming your opinion of what the truth is.
If indeed that co founder CAIR relations did indeed say that...(please provide me with a link) then it's one of the dumbest thing I have ever heard!
I am mostly definetely adept to seeing both sides of the story. You have your points and I have mine.
Bottom line is the war in Iraq is one serious fucked up situation for the Americans. They went to war AGAINST the UN. Iraq posed absolutely NO threat whatsoever to the US. They had NO weapons of mass destruction, yet they do have Oil...and lots of it.
The pretty much the entire world, except for Israel and rougly 30% of the U.S. think it's a bad idea and was handled poorly.
Well, the Americans are in Iraq...they gotta deal with it. They gotta deal with IED's, Snipers like Juba, they have to deal with the new recruitment ground for terrorists they have created in Iraq. They have to deal with the American bodybags that are adding up on a daily basis...they have to deal with the over 10,000 American soldiers injured...They have to deal with World Opinion of them being at an all time low. An Army that is so stretched thin.
And what do they have to show for it? NOTHING...NOTHING....NOTHING....That's the sad part. Iraq is MUCH WORSE then they were when Saddam was in power. No one can argue that. Majority of the pop is without Water and Electricty. 30-40 innocent civilians are being bombed daily by Terrorists...NO freedom, NO Electricity, NO Water....Abu-Ghabrab, Over 30,000 Civilians dead, a Terrorist recruitment centre...etc etc etc.
Good move don't ya think? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Amazing...because you have a HUNCH you're going to go to war...Prez Douche said that war was a last, last LAST option. He couldn't wait for a few more weeks to let the UN inspectators to finish up?
North Korea flat out KICKED the UN Inspectators OUT of NK. They stuck the mid finger to the US and stated probably...we HAVE Nuclear weapons...What did the U.S. do? Sit back and did nothing.
And please, don't say they are stretched to thin and when they are done with Iraq, they are going to deal with NK cause that's utter and complete bullshit. All the troops can return to the U.S. today and NK will not even be thought of...Why? Because they DO have WMD's and can reach the U.S....it's that simple.
To go to war with a country means destorying an entire country, killing 100's of 1000's of civilians. A country that was already destroyed in the earlier war and were crippled by UN sanctions that they had to resort to a food for oil campaign that was exploiting by the U.S., France, Britain etc.
So you want to see North Korea dealt with, so do I.
You are wrong about them (NK) being able to hit the US with a WMD, unless they float a boat halfway across the ocean and launch from there.
I am glad you brought up the corruption in the UN with the food for oil scam. That is the major reason why those countries (Germany, France, Russia) opposed going into Iraq, they were making waaaaay too much money. The US saw the writing on the wall and decided not to wait for the corruption to end. |
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| ehrgeiz |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Are my posts like a light that attracts brain dead bugs to come in and get zapped?
ProDrag, not you...you try to have a dialogue, but these other morons...:dunno:
Not interested in getting into an indepth argument on foreign policy on local car forum.
So I'll it say very blunty, fuck Iraq. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by ehrgeiz
Not interested in getting into an indepth argument on foreign policy on local car forum.
So I'll it say very blunty, fuck Iraq.
hahahahaha
Brilliant! |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Pro Drag
So you want to see North Korea dealt with, so do I.
You are wrong about them (NK) being able to hit the US with a WMD, unless they float a boat halfway across the ocean and launch from there.
I am glad you brought up the corruption in the UN with the food for oil scam. That is the major reason why those countries (Germany, France, Russia) opposed going into Iraq, they were making waaaaay too much money. The US saw the writing on the wall and decided not to wait for the corruption to end.
Gotta go but yes they can hit the U.S.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004...ain625301.shtml
U.S. officials claimed in September that North Korea had developed missiles based on the Soviet submarine-launched SSN6, with a potential range of 9,400 miles.
Of course they opposed the war for financial reasons, I'm not denying that. You think Germany, France, Russia gives a fuck about Iraq? None...they wanted Saddam in power because of the oil contracts they had with him
Ah yes, and please don't forget that the U.S. was also part of the Food for Oil scam.
I'm sorry, but you did you just write "The US saw the writing on the wal and ecided not to wait for the corruption to end"?
Oh boy...:blink: |
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| Tech2 |
"... Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance, not even today, of the disarmament which was demanded of it and which it needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in peace. ...
As we know, the twin operation declare and verify, which was prescribed in Resolution 687, too often turned into a game of hide and seek. ...
The [Iraqi air force] document indicates that 13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi air force between 1983 and 1998, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tons. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, we must assume that these quantities are now unaccounted for."
Hans Blix 2003, from a report to the UN as quoted here.
So, no, WMDs weren't found, but Saddam didn't help anyone with info about where they were, either.
I think Saddam was just playing his cards to intimidate his neighbors, and the US. He was called on it, and lost bigtime. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
WTF is "illegal" war?
The UN is not the world's sanctioning body, no matter what it thinks. If the Commander in Chief of the United States of America feels America's interests are threatened, then it has all rights to go to war to protect them.
I don't agree with what they did, but I think Iraq will be better off when it's over. It's only been a couple years. Give it time, Iraq will be better off.
And to those that say Iraq was just peachy under Saddam's rule. What the hell are you talking about? He murdered and tortured his own citizens based on their beliefs and religion. He'll be found guilty, and imprisoned or hanged, and that's for the best. He is Hitler and Mao and Stalin reincarnated, and has no business running a country. |
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| snugs |
lol, these threads always get so silly..... or should that be stupid.
Its always sort of depressing to see how many people formed their opinions based on the initial sound-bite spins that were released into the MSM instead of bothering to find out what actually happened. :(
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1653454,00.html
Good article, just came out today.
"Tuesday November 29, 2005
There is a remarkable article in the latest issue of the American Jewish weekly, Forward. It calls for President Bush to be impeached and put on trial "for misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 BC sent his legions into Germany and lost them".
To describe Iraq as the most foolish war of the last 2,014 years is a sweeping statement, but the writer is well qualified to know.
He is Martin van Creveld, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and one of the world's foremost military historians. Several of his books have influenced modern military theory and he is the only non-American author on the US Army's list of required reading for officers."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1653454,00.html |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
WTF is "illegal" war?
The UN is not the world's sanctioning body, no matter what it thinks. If the Commander in Chief of the United States of America feels America's interests are threatened, then it has all rights to go to war to protect them.
I don't agree with what they did, but I think Iraq will be better off when it's over. It's only been a couple years. Give it time, Iraq will be better off.
And to those that say Iraq was just peachy under Saddam's rule. What the hell are you talking about? He murdered and tortured his own citizens based on their beliefs and religion. He'll be found guilty, and imprisoned or hanged, and that's for the best. He is Hitler and Mao and Stalin reincarnated, and has no business running a country.
The U.S.'s freedom and interests were threatened by Iraq?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Iraq will be better off in a few years? Newsflash, the insurgency is only getting stronger, more sophisticated and more adaptive then ever.
Dipshit Dumpsfield stated the insurgency could last 5-12 years
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0627/dailyUpdate.htmlyet
yet the Americans are setting a time schedule to get out by end of next year?
You say the will be better off? Are you kidding me? Once they leave Iraq will be more volatile then ever. A civil war is brewing between the Sunni's and Shia's and you can bet Iran will have a serious vested interest in Iraq. At least before you had Iran and Iraq at serious odds with each other. Now with the Shia's in power in Iraq, you're talking about a serious tag team all thanks to Bush!
Now as far as Hussein is concerned, I hope he rots in a rathole for the rest of his life, but comparing him to Stalin and Hitler?
Do you have ANY idea how utterly and completely retarded you sound? Honestly...really do you?
I think you meant how similiar Bush and Hitler were right?
There are significant amount of evidence to claim that there are many similiarities between Hitler's regime and Bush administration. They both uses a tactic of fear in which it can be dated back to the time of the Roman Empire. You see, the best way to control people is not to put a gun to their heads and order them what to do. No, that's far too obvious and it's a really stupid idea. What they use is something much more briliant. They give the people something to fear. They tell the people that they are under an impending doom from a certain and undeniable enemy. This kind of tactic have been used through out history but I believe it holds especially true during both Hitler and Bush's reign of hell.
Feb 27, 1933. The day in which the Reichstag, which is simliar to our Congress building, was burned down to ashes. After the Reichstag was burned down, Hermann Goering, the Reichmarshall, immedialty went to the public and placed the blame on the communists. A day after the fire, a law that was passed to dissolve the congress and eliminate civil liberties in order to achieve maximum security within the country, this law is called "Reichstag fire decree". This law did just that, it suppresses anyone who speak out against the government. It made it legal for secret police (SS) to search and arrest citizens without cause and hold them for an indefinite amount of time.
Now if you have any skill to dot connections between events, you can tell where I am going with this. After 9/11, Bush went on public and declared that it was the terroists who orchestarted the plot to undermined the freedom of the American people. Almost every week after 9/11, you would hear on TV that claims how the terroists are jealous of our freedom and want to kill us over it. However, did Bush ever once stop to define what terroism really? I mean, has he? Also weeks after 9/11, our Congress blindly passed the Patriot Act. This act far surpasses Hitler's Reichstag fire decree. This law destroyed what was left of the bill of rights and made civil liberty obsolete. This law allowed the administration to define terroism at their free will and thus allowed them to arrest anyone and imprison anyone indefinitly. This law is the wet dream of Hitler.
As you can see, both parties uses a tragic event to further progress their agendas and creates laws at their will in order to stop the "evil do'ers". Here's a quote from Hermann Goering that I believe holds true throughour history.
"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
History has indeed repeated itself once again. |
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| S2000_rider |
Hey man,
Do me a favor, please post that link with the co-founder of CAIR saying that quote you had in your post. I honestly can't beleive he would say such a stupid thing...what an idiot.
Anyhow, it would be greatly appreciated if you could post it please.
Thanks,
edit*: I found the link...Can't beleive he would say that. :rolleyes: :dunno: |
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| Talontsi96 |
You forgot to mention how the Bush administration got their lawyers to revise the definition of "torture" in order to allow their soldiers to gather information from the prisoners at almost any cost. This was of course against the Geneva conventions and the revision of the definition of torture allowed the US to basically do anything short of death to their prisoners in order to get information out of them. There was a recent CBC program that outlined all of this and interviewed the US lawyer who revised the definition. WOW. Thats all I can say.....
Bush Administration's tactics do infact Rival a lot of the tactics associated with Hitler's regime. |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Talontsi96
Bush Administration's tactics do infact Rival a lot of the tactics associated with Hitler's regime.
Minus the 5.8 million dead jews... |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Minus the 5.8 million dead jews...
Nope, but Bush's Grandpa just helped bankroll Hitler's rise to power to help with the killings that's all... |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Nope, but Bush's Grandpa just helped bankroll Hitler's rise to power to help with the killings that's all...
lol, you're not supposed to know about that. Bad S2000_rider, bad! :lol:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...1312540,00.html |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
lol, you're not supposed to know about that. Bad S2000_rider, bad! :lol:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...1312540,00.html
Honestly Snugs...like what is it with these peoples fascination towards Bush and supporting him no matter what?
Like honestly...be objective. The guy and his cronies have been called out and owned so bad it's ridiculous!
I mean like your article mentioned, the worst decision for war in over 2000 years?
Dick Cheney running around trying to get support to leave the door wide open on torture?
Are we the only ones who see what happened in Abu Gharab and Guantanamo as extremely sick yet Cheney wants to have this door wide open? |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Talontsi96
You forgot to mention how the Bush administration got their lawyers to revise the definition of "torture" in order to allow their soldiers to gather information from the prisoners at almost any cost. This was of course against the Geneva conventions and the revision of the definition of torture allowed the US to basically do anything short of death to their prisoners in order to get information out of them. There was a recent CBC program that outlined all of this and interviewed the US lawyer who revised the definition. WOW. Thats all I can say.....
Bush Administration's tactics do infact Rival a lot of the tactics associated with Hitler's regime.
Yup, I saw that...Passionate Eye right? Special on Abu Gharab and Guantanamo...
Very disturbing... |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Honestly Snugs...like what is it with these peoples fascination towards Bush and supporting him no matter what?
Like honestly...be objective. The guy and his cronies have been called out and owned so bad it's ridiculous!
Once people believe something they will continue to believe what they want to, no matter what reality might have to say to the contrary. Its a well known trait that anybody who has studied history should be familiar with.
"All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes. ... " |
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| Talontsi96 |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Minus the 5.8 million dead jews...
Since when is 5.8 milion jews a TACTIC?
Open your eyes and check some history and you WILL see similarities in the Bush Administration's approach and The Nazzis. Including being extremely right winged, fear tactics, torture tactics, brainwashing their nation, propaganda tactics, the patriot approach (if you dont support us you're not a patriot), "youre either with us or against us" attitude., starting a war that the majority of the world did not approve of... I can go on and on and on.... |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Honestly Snugs...like what is it with these peoples fascination towards Bush and supporting him no matter what?
Like honestly...be objective. The guy and his cronies have been called out and owned so bad it's ridiculous!
I mean like your article mentioned, the worst decision for war in over 2000 years?
Dick Cheney running around trying to get support to leave the door wide open on torture?
Are we the only ones who see what happened in Abu Gharab and Guantanamo as extremely sick yet Cheney wants to have this door wide open?
Let me get this clear up front... in no way do I support Bush.
However, illegal war is such a bad term. Immoral, yes... but "illegal"? It's not. A country has a right to declare war on another country for what the government views as threats to their interests. Whether or not they're real or not... well, that's another issue.
I don't really see the Bush/Hitler thing. Maybe in the way that he passes laws, but in the States, you still have the freedom of speech, the freedom to assemble and protest (reasonably, don't start on that shit) the freedom to be gay, or the freedom to practice whatever religion you want. The government can't oppose those things in the USA. The citizens don't accept them (gays, Muslims, etc) but it was that way with Blacks fifty years ago as well. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
However, illegal war is such a bad term. Immoral, yes... but "illegal"? It's not. A country has a right to declare war on another country for what the government views as threats to their interests. Whether or not they're real or not... well, that's another issue.
This is known as the "THEY'RE COMIN' RIGHT AT US NED!" defense, and unfortunately it only works in one quiet redneck, white bread, mountain town in Colorado.
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Nope, but Bush's Grandpa just helped bankroll Hitler's rise to power to help with the killings that's all...
And 1930s canadians were selling metals to the japanese for building warships. That's business. Not pleasant, but you don't hear much about it now, unless it's related to the americans. |
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| S2KPWR |
S2000 rider....
If your against the war on terrorism, go join the Alkada, taliban or the HIG.
The reason you can so freely express your opinions is becuase of soldiers dieing and fighting for the "greater good".
And in reference to the video, they are firing at vehicles that are attempting to pass, which is understandable, in some situations. In Iraq right now, vehicles with VBIED's are driving up beside them and detonating.
When I was in afghanistan, I'd point my weapon at vehicles with CIVILIANS to get them to stop. The international symbol to back off.
If america was so terribly wrong in their actions, Dont you think that NATO, UN, ISAF would interfere? No, they are there supporting them 1 way or another..
Dont believe everything you see on the news, the media is nothing but lies.
I could elaborate alot more on my post, but I've lost interest in pointless arguements. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
And 1930s canadians were selling metals to the japanese for building warships. That's business. Not pleasant, but you don't hear much about it now, unless it's related to the americans.
Guess who Germany's largest trading partner was in 1939/1940....
:dunno:
That's right. France. :rolleyes: |
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| Tech2 |
I read an interesting thing about France not supporting the US invasion of Iraq. They had actually offered a force of 20 thousand or so, on the condition that they would have sole control of thier area which was supposed to include at least part of Baghdad. The US refused, as they had a bad experience with the French controlled parts of the former Yugoslavia and missing documents.
After that France was dead set against military intervention. |
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| S2KPWR |
| France is a bunch of pussies, they ran away from conflict many times. They cant even stop riots in their own country for fucksakes. |
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| DeathBy240 |
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
S2000 rider....
If your against the war on terrorism, go join the Alkada, taliban or the HIG.
The reason you can so freely express your opinions is becuase of soldiers dieing and fighting for the "greater good".
Maybe soldiers in wars of the past. But this war has done fuck all for anyone in North America other than kill a lot of its people.
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
Dont believe everything you see on the news, the media is nothing but lies.
The media is not full of lies. But when you listen to the news you must consider the source. You aren't going to get the same information from Fox and CBC. |
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| snugs |
| lol, this thread was initially about a trophy video posted on Aegis's site of a bunch of british private security contractors driving around in an unmarked van taking pot shots at civilians.... and now we've got the anti-peace guys whining about France and how its ok for the contractors to shoot civilians because other soldiers in uniform are at risk from IEDs? |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
Dont believe everything you see on the news, the media is nothing but lies.
lol, no kidding, check out what's in the news today.
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
S2000 rider....
If your against the war on terrorism, go join the Alkada, taliban or the HIG.
The reason you can so freely express your opinions is becuase of soldiers dieing and fighting for the "greater good".
And in reference to the video, they are firing at vehicles that are attempting to pass, which is understandable, in some situations. In Iraq right now, vehicles with VBIED's are driving up beside them and detonating.
When I was in afghanistan, I'd point my weapon at vehicles with CIVILIANS to get them to stop. The international symbol to back off.
If america was so terribly wrong in their actions, Dont you think that NATO, UN, ISAF would interfere? No, they are there supporting them 1 way or another..
Dont believe everything you see on the news, the media is nothing but lies.
I could elaborate alot more on my post, but I've lost interest in pointless arguements.
Uhm...If I'm against the war on terrorism, why would I join
Al-Qaeda???:blink::blink::blink:
It never, ever ceases to amaze me that when people have nothing intelligent to say, they always, without fail fall back on the very typical yet unbelievably response of:
"Duh...Uhmm...Why don't you to go to Iraq and fight"
What an unbelievably retarded statement. Just because your against the occupation does that mean you have to go Iraq? If that's the case, why don't you call out the entire U.S. Admin from the President down who fabricated the reason to go to war and ask them to go fight in Iraq? Like what a retarded, dumb thing to say. I'm not allowed to voice my opinion otherwise? Have I ever said to you "You support the Iraq war so much and hate Al-Qaeda, why don't you go to Iraq or Pakistan and go fight them?"
You said the UN was supporting the U.S. with regards to the war Iraq?
Wow...nothing else to say I guess. :blink: |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
lol, this thread was initially about a trophy video posted on Aegis's site of a bunch of british private security contractors driving around in an unmarked van taking pot shots at civilians.... and now we've got the anti-peace guys whining about France and how its ok for the contractors to shoot civilians because other soldiers in uniform are at risk from IEDs?
It's typical Snugs...they run out of typical things to say after getting owned pretty hard so they start diverting the topic to other things and wouldn't you know it...it's always happens to be the French. |
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| S2KPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Uhm...If I'm against the war on terrorism, why would I join
Al-Qaeda???:blink::blink::blink:
the war AGAINST terrorism... so joining al-qaeda would be against the states. |
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| S2KPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
"You support the Iraq war so much and hate Al-Qaeda, why don't you go to Iraq or Pakistan and go fight them?"
I've been to the middle east twice, going on 3 in february. |
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| S2KPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
You said the UN was supporting the U.S. with regards to the war Iraq?
By not attempting to put a stop to it. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
the war AGAINST terrorism... so joining al-qaeda would be against the states.
Nice 'If you're not with us, you're against us' attitude. |
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| S2KPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Uhm...If I'm against the war on terrorism, why would I join
Al-Qaeda???:blink::blink::blink:
It never, ever ceases to amaze me that when people have nothing intelligent to say, they always, without fail fall back on the very typical yet unbelievably response of:
"Duh...Uhmm...Why don't you to go to Iraq and fight"
What an unbelievably retarded statement. Just because your against the occupation does that mean you have to go Iraq? If that's the case, why don't you call out the entire U.S. Admin from the President down who fabricated the reason to go to war and ask them to go fight in Iraq? Like what a retarded, dumb thing to say. I'm not allowed to voice my opinion otherwise? Have I ever said to you "You support the Iraq war so much and hate Al-Qaeda, why don't you go to Iraq or Pakistan and go fight them?"
You said the UN was supporting the U.S. with regards to the war Iraq?
Wow...nothing else to say I guess. :blink:
You flap your gums alot voicing your opinions which are based off "the media" and other peoples opinions.
Make a stand for what you believe in. Typing shit on a car forum isnt making a difference.
My comment on joining the taliban, at least they fight for what they believe in.. not a armchair soldier/politician like yourself. |
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| Buddyworm |
Personally, I love debates like this. I like to sit back and take in every bit of information I can, from both sides of the argument and form my own opinion on the facts, not rhetoric. I've never been a supporter of the War in Iraq but I've also never been entirely aware of the sheer amount of information that people like Snugs and S2000 Rider are. So this type of discussion is very important to me.
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
Make a stand for what you believe in. Typing shit on a car forum isnt making a difference.
My comment on joining the taliban, at least they fight for what they believe in.. not a armchair soldier/politician like yourself.
That's the problem with living in Canada. We simply don't have the option of joining the American military, nor can we go under our own flag because we aren't participating in Iraq. So yes, by your logic, Al-Quada would be the only option to oppose the war because you would be getting involved first-hand in the conflict.
That's the wonderful thing about Democracy. We shouldn't have to physically participate in the war to influence its direction. Theoretically we, the general public, should be able to sit at home and have a say in what kind of actions the country takes. But therein lies the flaw in the system; the general public, the average voter. Unfortunately, the fact that we are "the general public" does not make us "generally intelligent" nor does it make us properly informed. Of course, that all counts for naught because we can't vote in the US.
From my point of view, it boils down to one thing: People are stupid, and if they continue to elect people like Bush, people who PUT people like Saddam Hussein in power, we're effed. To effect change we ARE going to have to make a stand. But in this case, the battlefield is not the place to do it. It's going to have to come from within individual governments. Right now, I just don't see how that's going to happen.
B-Wurm :D |
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| S2000_rider |
Excellent post.
I didn't bother answering to S2Kpower's response because of it's sheer intelligence. He doesn't understand, like many right wingers with typical response of "if you don't like it go and fight the war in Iraq". There ARE other options rather then going to Iraq.
The fact that he mentioned that the UN didn't try to stop the US from going to war in Iraq :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: just shows how informed some people are about this topic and at that point i really didn't see the point of continuing with this thread but thank you for your insight. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyworm
From my point of view, it boils down to one thing: People are stupid
You just learned Rule #1. :thumbup: |
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| S2KPWR |
Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since: Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 2004); Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004) Hungary (end Dec. 2004); Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005); Moldova (Feb. 2005);
Countries planning to withdraw from Iraq: Poland (starting Jan.05 and completed by end.05(?)); Bulgaria (end of 2005, depending on circumstances); Ukraine (entire contingent, in stages until ~ Oct. 2005)
Countries which have reduced or are planning to reduce their troop commitment: Ukraine (-200 during Fall04 rotation); Moldova (reduced contingent to 12 around mid-2004); Norway (reduced from ~150 to 10 late-Jun.04, early Jul.04); Bulgaria (-50, Dec.04); Poland (-700, Feb.05); Italy (-300 expeted in Sept. 05(decrease appearently began in mid-Aug. 05)); Netherlands (reduced from ~1,345 to 4; ~Mar. 2005)
Countries supporting UNAMI: Fiji (150+); Georgia
These are countries that signed on to OP Iraqi Freedom, Not UN.
Iraq Broke UN's Rules, but UN never actually declared WAR. Washington cut short the UN arms inspections, after a war-sanctioning resolution failed to gain support in the UN Security Council........ They just stood and watched as the US invaded iraq. UN is now trying to help iraq establish themselves again, but didnt commit to the war.
And with you saying you dont see a point in continuing this thread? Good job, you just realized this is a car forum, not a political debate..... Sheer intelligence. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
You just learned Rule #1. :thumbup:
It was the first commandment of 11. But Billy Graham edited it out in the third century. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
It was the first commandment of 11. But Billy Graham edited it out in the third century.
lol, I heard it was on that third tablet that moses left up on the mountain. :p |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by S2KPWR
Countries which had troops in or supported operations in Iraq at one point but have pulled out since: Nicaragua (Feb. 2004); Spain (late-Apr. 2004); Dominican Republic (early-May 2004); Honduras (late-May 2004); Philippines (~Jul. 19, 2004); Thailand (late-Aug. 2004); New Zealand (late Sep. 2004); Tonga (mid-Dec. 2004) Hungary (end Dec. 2004); Portugal (mid-Feb. 2005); Moldova (Feb. 2005);
Countries planning to withdraw from Iraq: Poland (starting Jan.05 and completed by end.05(?)); Bulgaria (end of 2005, depending on circumstances); Ukraine (entire contingent, in stages until ~ Oct. 2005)
Countries which have reduced or are planning to reduce their troop commitment: Ukraine (-200 during Fall04 rotation); Moldova (reduced contingent to 12 around mid-2004); Norway (reduced from ~150 to 10 late-Jun.04, early Jul.04); Bulgaria (-50, Dec.04); Poland (-700, Feb.05); Italy (-300 expeted in Sept. 05(decrease appearently began in mid-Aug. 05)); Netherlands (reduced from ~1,345 to 4; ~Mar. 2005)
Countries supporting UNAMI: Fiji (150+); Georgia
These are countries that signed on to OP Iraqi Freedom, Not UN.
Iraq Broke UN's Rules, but UN never actually declared WAR. Washington cut short the UN arms inspections, after a war-sanctioning resolution failed to gain support in the UN Security Council........ They just stood and watched as the US invaded iraq. UN is now trying to help iraq establish themselves again, but didnt commit to the war.
And with you saying you dont see a point in continuing this thread? Good job, you just realized this is a car forum, not a political debate..... Sheer intelligence.
This sections examines the legality of the 2003 US-UK war on Iraq. Shortly before the outbreak of hostilities, UN Secretary General stated that the use of force without Council endorsement would "not be in conformity with the Charter" and many legal experts now describe the US-UK attack as an act of aggression, violating international law. Experts also point to illegalities in the US conduct of the war and violations of the Geneva Conventions by the US-UK of their responsibilities as an occupying power.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/securit...ck/lawindex.htm
Regardless of what you may think of Kofi Annan he IS the United Nations Secretary-General. He stated:
"the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3661134.stm
You do understand English right? Pretty straight forward don't you think?
If you don't think the off-topic is a place where politics can be discussed....Then why on God's Green Earth are you posting here? :rolleyes: :blink: :rolleyes:
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