| SilverNeonRacer |
Ok, I got pulled over in the middle of no-where, literally.. bout 90km north of Edmonton. For my WHITE LED front markers and signals.
I got ticketed under VEG 4(4) which states:quote:
A person shall not drive or operate a vehicle that has a coloured lamp unless the lamp is required or allowed by this Regulation.
Ok.. fine a general ticket... so I look further under the signal bulbs section and this is what I find:
quote:
21(1) This section applies to a motor vehicle manufactured on or after January 1, 1971.
(2) This section does not apply to a moped.
(3) A person shall not sell, offer for sale, drive or operate a motor vehicle unless it has front and rear turn signal lamps that are visible from both the front and rear.
(4) A person shall not sell, offer for sale, drive or operate a motor vehicle unless it has turn signal lamps that operate on one side of the vehicle at a time.
Ok.. all compliant there.. so I go on:
quote:
23(1) This section applies to a vehicle, other than a towed implement of husbandry, manufactured on or after January 1, 1971.
(2) One set of turn signal lamps on a vehicle that has turn signal lamps must comply with the following:
(a) they must be located at or near the front of the vehicle;
(b) they must be on the same level and as widely spaced laterally as practicable;
(c) when lit, they must emit white or amber light that is plainly visible from at least 250 metres ahead.
(3) One set of turn signal lamps on a vehicle that has turn signal lamps must comply with the following:
(a) they must be located at or near the rear of the vehicle;
(b) they must be on the same level and as widely spaced laterally as practicable;
(c) when lit, they must emit red or amber light that is plainly visible from at least 250 metres to the rear.
(4) The turn signal lamps or mechanical turn signal devices must be self‑cancelling on a vehicle that is less than 2.05 metres wide, including its load.
(5) A turn signal lamp or a mechanical turn signal device on a vehicle must be mounted on a rigid part of the vehicle that is not glazing.
(6) A turn signal lamp on a vehicle must be mounted so that the centre of the lamp is not less than 380 millimetres or more than 2.11 metres above ground level when the vehicle is not loaded.
(7) A truck tractor with front turn signal lamps that are double faced and meet the visibility requirements in subsection (1) need not have a set of rear turn signal lamps.
(8) A vehicle or trailer must be equipped so that the driver is able to indicate the direction in which the driver intends to turn the vehicle or trailer
(a) by turning on and flashing the front and rear turn signal lamps on the side of the vehicle towards which the turn is to be made, or
(b) by using the mechanical signal device on the side of the vehicle towards which the turn is to be made.
(9) A mechanical turn signal device must be self‑illuminating if it is used at night time.
Ok..
1 - No prob
2 - C - yup their white
3 - rear don't apply
4 - yup
5 - yup
6 - dunno, but it's stock hieght
7 - Not a semi, so ok
8 - yup
9 - and yup
Ok...
So the cop pulls me over and wonder's why I'm running blue signals... he's never seen my signals flash.
I say there's white LED, he says they look blue.
So I say a blue LED looks like the blue LED's on your mirror stobes.
I pulled one of the LEDs out of the housing.. he agreed the BULB IS WHITE, but said that my marker/signal lense makes it have a tinge of blue. The lenses are 100% factory original.
So then he threatens to take the lights, tow my car and take my plate.
I managed to find my stock orange signal bulbs, not the markers though... no biggie they're just extras really.
So in the middle of no-where in the dark and the cold I had to pull the front of my car apart to take out the bulbs.
I challanged him on the Vehicle EquipmentRegs that all it states it the bulb has to be white or amber.
He said all bulbs have to meet federal regualtions and that No LED bulb has ever been approved because they run to hot and burn out to quick - No where inthe VEG can I see anything about bulbs meet a standard, nor does it specify what type of bulb you have to use(Incandecant, Neon, LED, halogen, etc, etc)
Umm LED's run cooler than incandecants, and last 10-20times longer.
So.... My court date is Jan 25/05 and he confiscated about $100 in LED bulbs, likily he didn't see the other 4 I have in my head lights(they're cheap CT ones, not like the ones he took) I woulda been there for another hour or so taking out my head lights to get to them.
I lost a screw from the trim around my head lights, and my hands went numb pulling them.
So what are my chances and if I win do I get my bulbs back. If I loose can I get my bulbs back? I canuse them in applications other than auto motive, or as interior lights.
Thanks |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Aww crap... I think I found something:
quote:
(2) A lamp on a vehicle, wherever it is located,
(a) must comply with the appropriate standard under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada) on the date it is attached to or incorporated in the vehicle, or
(b) must comply with the SAE standard applicable on the date on which the motor vehicle is manufactured.
HMmm... more home work to do...
Well all you import drivers can rest assured they don't target only you. I drove a friggin grandpa mobile and I got stopped.
So if I can find a "dot" or "sae" approved thing on the package I'm good eh?
**edit.... WAIT A minute.. he said NO LED bulbs have been approved. BUT what do newer semi's and the new ETS busses run for tail lights... LED, I think I've seen a new car or two with LED's stock |
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| shawley |
that cops a homo
seriousley, go stop some murders, stop drug dealers, keep kids from drunking, and keep ppl from beating up there family, keep kids from beating to death other kids at house partsy
don't come after us for minor car mods |
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| shawley |
| and u know most busses and semi trucks now days have all LED's instead of reg bulbs |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
| yeah.. cept they prolly have orange up front, not white like me... I should scope out the city and see if i can see a bus with white LEDs up front... prolly won't though. |
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| shawley |
| but point is that LED's are legal for street use if there on busses and trucks |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
But are they legaql in general or does each bulb need to be approved? I'm wondering cause the ones they took, I didn't get any packaging other than a bubble wrap(ebay)
Gee and I was just about to put LEDs everywhere.... with my electric fans my alt is having a hard time keeping up when I'm idling. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Oh I was wrong.. what he put on the ticket is
4(4) Operate M.V. unauthorized color light. |
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| DeathBy240 |
quote:
Originally posted by shawley
that cops a homo
seriousley, go stop some murders, stop drug dealers, keep kids from drunking, and keep ppl from beating up there family, keep kids from beating to death other kids at house partsy
don't come after us for minor car mods
You do realize there are officers that are assigned to a traffic unit? They have other officers to handle the drug dealers and murderers. Police couldn't have foreseen the murder of Shane Rolston. |
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| shawley |
quote:
Originally posted by DeathBy240
You do realize there are officers that are assigned to a traffic unit? They have other officers to handle the drug dealers and murderers. Police couldn't have foreseen the murder of Shane Rolston.
i do relize that because a relative of mine was the head of the trafffic dept a few years back, or something like that |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by DeathBy240
You do realize there are officers that are assigned to a traffic unit? They have other officers to handle the drug dealers and murderers. Police couldn't have foreseen the murder of Shane Rolston.
Well this was a RCMP, so a jack of all trades.. in a friggin minivan.. a dodge grand caravan as a highway car.... wtf? had I been in the neon, I prolly coulda jumpped on it and out ran him. and unless he got my plate, he'd be screwed as there's a good dozen silver neons in town. |
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| TrevorK |
Some white LEDs appear blue, even though they are "white". If the police officer saw this light as blue, so for all intensive purposes they are "blue" in his eyes.
Unfortunately, if the crown was knowledgable (When you go to court) he'd be able to point this out.
Perhaps if you go to court, bring in documentation that they are a "white" light - such as packaging and such. That may be enough, if the crown doesn't have his own evidence to contradict. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
But when I pulled the bulb out and it was on, he agree it was white, just my factory refractor lense thing I guess made it have a bulb tinge to it, to him.
But he, for a lack of a better word, lied about the use of LEDs.
I don't have packaging.... my packaging was bubble wrap and an envelope.
I'm getting in touch with SAE about the "approved light thing".
And for my defence I'm gonna bring in a white LED and a Blue LED flash light to demonstrate the difference between the two. |
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| kustom83 |
| you should also point out that alot of new cadillacs and some other luxury vehicles are using led turn signals and/or taillights. I would check to find out which ones do so you have even moore to solidify that he was wrong. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by kustom83
you should also point out that alot of new cadillacs and some other luxury vehicles are using led turn signals and/or taillights. I would check to find out which ones do so you have even moore to solidify that he was wrong.
Hmm I should visit a chevy dealership and see if I can look at the bulbs.. see if they have a SAE mark on them... |
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| bigmack000 |
| 3rd break ligths in wings and stuff have been led for years |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Well I got a reply from SAE:
quote:
Thank you for contacting SAE Customer Service. I am sorry SAE does not test or approve products. Testing is done by independent labs to meet SAE’s Standards. Manufacturers are not required to follow SAE Standards. Companies comply on a voluntary basis. However, in your case government standards prevail. Countries, states or provinces may require stricter guidelines for compliance.
So inquiried how can I find out what the standards are/where.. so we'll see what happens.
I stopped by my local RCMP detachment... they had no clue... The officer I talked to had to go look,, and still had no clue. Refered me to Morinville or St Albert to inquiry to a traffic person. As to wether or not LED bulbs are legal.
Weee.... so I guess I'll see what SAE says in reply, then I'll pop by K-devision next chance I have. |
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| TrevorK |
I think you're losing focus - you were ticketed (Unless I missed something) for having signal lights of a colour other than white/amber.
The officer may have made comments about your LEDs, however the ticket is for improper colour not "...having LED lights..."
Taking up time with whether LEDs are illegal or not does not help your case - you have to focus on the fact that you believe your LEDs are white in nature, not blue as claimed. That is what this is about. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
right... but he also said LED's wheren't approved.
Once I determine if LED's are legal, then I can start on the basis that it's a white LED.
The reason I'm doing it this way is because he ticketed me with the number 4(4) which could be color and the SAE thing, but for description he wrote down the color which is actually 23(2c).
So I;m covering all the basis... Ok, so I get off onthe color thing, he could re-issue for the sae... ya know what I mean. I wanna get enough info that when I fight it I'm 100% prepared and hopefully get something that I can use to prevent another ticket if the judge rules in my favor.
So if afterwards I put them back in and get pulled over and they try to give me another ticket. I can stop them in their tracks and say, nope their legal, I went to court over this already, here's my proof.
The color, I plan to go in with a Blue LED flashlight and a white LED flashlight as stated to demonstrate the difference. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
OHHHHH I soo got it beat...
I'll post quotes and crap when I get home......
Ok, SAE does not have any standards for LED bulbs, how ever DOT does....
stay tuned for my evidence.....
Hmm when Federal and Provicial laws contradict, which takes precidence? |
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| 95EagleAWD |
LEDs are legal...
But your turn signals or markers can't be white. They gotta be orange, and that's why you got your ticket, I believe. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
LEDs are legal...
But your turn signals or markers can't be white. They gotta be orange, and that's why you got your ticket, I believe.
quote:
c) when lit, they must emit white or amber light that is plainly visible from at least 250 metres ahead.
Thats what the Alberta Vehicle Equipement regs say.. the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety act.... says something different... thats why I asked whent he 2 contradict, which takes precedence? |
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| Big Bad Bruce |
| I used to live in edmonton for 3 years and i lived on the north end, in castle downs, holy shit my car was broken in to twice and stolen once, and i talk to a few people that lived around me and they said car around that block got stolen almost daily, i kinda though that was pretty said cop couldnt do a damn thing to catch these people if it happen so often |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by Big Bad Bruce
I used to live in edmonton for 3 years and i lived on the north end, in castle downs, holy shit my car was broken in to twice and stolen once, and i talk to a few people that lived around me and they said car around that block got stolen almost daily, i kinda though that was pretty said cop couldnt do a damn thing to catch these people if it happen so often
I think you got the wrong thread... |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Colour
17(2) Back‑up lamps that are lit only when a vehicle is backing up may emit white light.
Ok, so white LED bulbs have been approved for reverse lamps, I've seen a couple that are both SAE and DOT approved, therefore by reasoning you could say the color emited from white LEDs is white and thus under 23(2c)
quote:
(c) when lit, they must emit white or amber light that is plainly visible from at least 250 metres ahead.
They should be legal. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
right... but he also said LED's wheren't approved.
That isn't what the ticket is for.
Just because LEDs are legal doesn't make your ticket any less valid.
Yes your cop may have been mistaken when he said LEDs are illegal, however that in no way impacts his judgement on whether your LEDs are blue.
Now, if he said your car was blue, and it's really white, then that sort of statement would help. However he didn't.
You aren't going to impress a judge by proving LEDs are legal because that's not what the ticket is for. |
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| sparkycivic |
| the cop confiscated your lamps, but that's your property. send a letter to him asking for your pamps back so that you can use them as evidence in court, or at least to bring them to court. set up a little battery test bench and physically show the judge that the bulbs are, inded white as you are arguing, and not any other color such as the officer is claiming. Once the judge sees the actual lamps with his own eyes, there will really not BE anything else to talk about, right? i'd say that is both the simplest and mose effective defence you could provide, and that is what I would do if I was in your shituation. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by sparkycivic
the cop confiscated your lamps, but that's your property. send a letter to him asking for your pamps back so that you can use them as evidence in court, or at least to bring them to court. set up a little battery test bench and physically show the judge that the bulbs are, inded white as you are arguing, and not any other color such as the officer is claiming. Once the judge sees the actual lamps with his own eyes, there will really not BE anything else to talk about, right? i'd say that is both the simplest and mose effective defence you could provide, and that is what I would do if I was in your shituation.
Well the cop should bring them in as evidence. Thaat was the point of the white and blue LED flash lights... I could bring a couple 6V batts cause their light and I can get 12v out of them... could do the same with a 9v really.. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
That isn't what the ticket is for.
Just because LEDs are legal doesn't make your ticket any less valid.
Yes your cop may have been mistaken when he said LEDs are illegal, however that in no way impacts his judgement on whether your LEDs are blue.
Now, if he said your car was blue, and it's really white, then that sort of statement would help. However he didn't.
You aren't going to impress a judge by proving LEDs are legal because that's not what the ticket is for. [/B]
Yes, I understand... I start off with the color thing, but I want to be prepared incase the cop starts going off tangent.. just covering all the bases. |
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| sparkycivic |
| i thought i read somewhere in the specs that the feds use for governing canadian vehicle safety shit that they had actual specifications for how certain lamps should perform with respect to brightness and color for certain applications. things like candlepower measured form certain distances and angles using certain tools for measuring and all that jazz. ring any bells? I don't remember where I found that but I do remember something about the actual bulbs needing to have markings stating "DOT" or "SAE" or something to that effect. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
Well the cop should bring them in as evidence. Thaat was the point of the white and blue LED flash lights... I could bring a couple 6V batts cause their light and I can get 12v out of them... could do the same with a 9v really..
What will you do if the officer states that your housing turns the light blue?
If he made notes on the case, I'm sure he would've wrote that in (Since he mentioned it to you).
That's another possible defense to come up with. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by sparkycivic
i thought i read somewhere in the specs that the feds use for governing canadian vehicle safety shit that they had actual specifications for how certain lamps should perform with respect to brightness and color for certain applications. things like candlepower measured form certain distances and angles using certain tools for measuring and all that jazz. ring any bells? I don't remember where I found that but I do remember something about the actual bulbs needing to have markings stating "DOT" or "SAE" or something to that effect.
Ya they do, I saw them.. I could probably get ya a link. for the candle power and such..
I didn't see anything about SAE or DOT in the federal regs for bulbs |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
What will you do if the officer states that your housing turns the light blue?
If he made notes on the case, I'm sure he would've wrote that in (Since he mentioned it to you).
That's another possible defense to come up with.
I was thinking about that.... the lenses are stock, nor can I get aftermarket ones for my car.
Umm I could put some LEDs back in, walk 250M away and see what they look like.
Mind you.. If I put a blue in one and a white next to it, or on the other side and take a comparision picture.. and see how that turns out. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
I was thinking about that.... the lenses are stock, nor can I get aftermarket ones for my car.
Umm I could put some LEDs back in, walk 250M away and see what they look like.
Mind you.. If I put a blue in one and a white next to it, or on the other side and take a comparision picture.. and see how that turns out.
Are you able to rig up this demonstration in court? |
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| bigmack000 |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
Are you able to rig up this demonstration in court?
he can bring in photo evidence witch will display the difference |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
Are you able to rig up this demonstration in court?
Ya I can bring in photos.... thats about it.. I "could" bring the lense in with me. and shine a white LED flash light into it. and a blue LED flash light into it for comparision. |
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| DelSoln |
| I was just wondering how much was the ticket for? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
$57, but we was threatening to tow my car, and consficate my plates... It's not the ticket $$ amount I'm fighting... it's the principle, I had white bulbs as per the regs i should be legal.
He wasted an hour of my time on the side of the highway when I was on the clock. I froze my hands pretty good taking the bulbs out, and my hands are my livelyhood. And I still have to either get Orange LED bulbs or re-wire the front end of my car. |
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| ~30oZ~ |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
he said NO LED bulbs have been approved. BUT what do newer semi's and the new ETS busses run for tail lights... LED, I think I've seen a new car or two with LED's stock
The New S2000's have LED's for tail lights and I think one of the models of the G35 uses LED's as well |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
$57, but we was threatening to tow my car, and consficate my plates... It's not the ticket $$ amount I'm fighting... it's the principle, I had white bulbs as per the regs i should be legal.
He wasted an hour of my time on the side of the highway when I was on the clock. I froze my hands pretty good taking the bulbs out, and my hands are my livelyhood. And I still have to either get Orange LED bulbs or re-wire the front end of my car.
You're fighting a 57 dollar ticket?
Don't you have better things to do with you time? :confused: |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
You're fighting a 57 dollar ticket?
Don't you have better things to do with you time? :confused:
Ya, it's a $57 ticket, plus he took $100 worth of LED bulbs. So to replace them with Orange LEDs would be another $100 or so.
But as I said, it's the principle of it. They are white, white is allowed. And he's a cop who's stared into his emergency lights a few times too many. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
| Damn double post |
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| 95EagleAWD |
| I'm all for fighting things on principle, so give 'er... let us know how it turns out. |
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| Charles_00civic |
| I hate cops. homos. :blue: |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by Charles_00civic
I hate cops. homos. :blue:
You've said that twice in two posts.
Bad experience, or do you just think it's "cool" to "hate" cops?
:dunno: |
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| 3gec |
quote:
Originally posted by Charles_00civic
I hate cops. homos. :blue:
let's see you say that when you are getting raped in a back alley and a cop sees it and stops it and arrest the guy raping. you.... I just love how you guys hate the cops so much but would be the first to call them when something is wrong. Cops deserve respect for what they put up with in a day....
Anyways off topic now
Dude I would just suck it up. Same reason why I am not going to fight a photo radar ticket with 2 cars in it. I would lose more money by not going to work than just paying the fine. At some point you gotta say fuck I wasted enough money already on this. the amount of the ticket the hour and the bulbs price. now your gonna waste another hour or more in court. I know you said it's for principle but I dunno. There is a time when myself I gotta say eff it and suck it up. I am pretty sure you are able to go to the police station and ask for the bulbs back but don't take my word on it.
Good luck man. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
I want to be able to run white LED bulbs and this is the only way. if I didn't care, I coulda yanked them put yellows in and got away without a ticket.
He compared them to my headlights, by saying my headlights are white, well at certain angles my headlights are the same color, and other angles are yellowish.
It's the sheer principle of it. And frankly if I keep this car now that it's having tranny probs, I want to be able to run LED bulbs everywhere without getting harassed. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
| Keep at it. I plan on converting all my bulbs to LEDs if I pick up my new car. They look way nicer... more "high-tech". |
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| icydude |
Im in the process of creating LED tail lights.
already have my wiring diagrams and outlines.
also have 200 leds and 200 resistors sitting on my table. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
| ^-- I thought of doing that since my ticket, white LED for the markers up front and orange for the signals heh |
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| chris f |
This what i understand from the laws
Sae or dot means crap, signals up front and back must be orange and can been seen from front and side of veh. and you must have an orange reflector on the sides up front, for the rear, red or orange musr be seen fron rear and side of car. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
This what i understand from the laws
Sae or dot means crap, signals up front and back must be orange and can been seen from front and side of veh. and you must have an orange reflector on the sides up front, for the rear, red or orange musr be seen fron rear and side of car.
Then you understand incorrectly.
Front signals/markers must emit a white or amber light.
Rear must emit an Amber or Red light.
Reverse lights and plate lights must be white.
According to federal regulations bulbs must meet SAE standards. SAE does not test or approve lights, independant companies to the tests and see if things meet sae standards. |
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| bigmack000 |
| so when you goin to court? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
| Jan 25 10am in Westlock |
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| JdmCrx |
| So your ricer bulbs got you pulled over? Deal with it. Trying to fight this.. do you really have that much time on your hands? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by JdmCrx
So your ricer bulbs got you pulled over? Deal with it. Trying to fight this.. do you really have that much time on your hands?
Ricer bulbs? wtf crack are you smokin? it's not like they're series 7 LED changing colors or anything. They are white, which according to the vehicle equipment regs is perfectly legal.
Thats why I'm fighting, if I was running blue, green, purple, whatever, then by all means I'd take the ticket. But I was actually legal. |
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| JdmCrx |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
Ricer bulbs? wtf crack are you smokin? it's not like they're series 7 LED changing colors or anything. They are white, which according to the vehicle equipment regs is perfectly legal.
Thats why I'm fighting, if I was running blue, green, purple, whatever, then by all means I'd take the ticket. But I was actually legal.
wtf crack are u smoking putting bulbs on some 1987 Chrysler Fifth Avenue.. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
sheesh, it comes with clear signals stock, it's not like I put tyc's on it. Other than the crispness it was hard to tell they're LEDs. The main reason for LEDs.. cause I have so many friggin bulbs on that car, that when I hit my brake lights, the head lights dim.
Asking that question is like me asking why would you put any rims on a crx bigger than 14". |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
Asking that question is like me asking why would you put any rims on a crx bigger than 14".
That is a legit question...
:lol: |
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| JdmCrx |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
That is a legit question...
:lol:
16's look better on a crx then 14's. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by JdmCrx
16's look better on a crx then 14's.
I was only poking fun... ;) |
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| JdmCrx |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
I was only poking fun... ;)
at? |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by JdmCrx
at?
CRXs. Comment was made completely in jest. |
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| JdmCrx |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
CRXs. Comment was made completely in jest.
CRX's are nice platforms... pacman put a k20a into his crx and runs high 11's with basic bolt-ons. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Heh so your only justification is cause they look better? Well gee, I guess I can call them a ricer mod too then. I got LED's for a purpose the law allows for 2 colors, I chose white. Do some homework before you go blasting your fingers off.
And how does this go from LED's to a comparision to being about performance? I'm pretty sure you can find 14" rims that are lighter than 16" rims.. so straight line they're not a performance mod. |
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| JdmCrx |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
Heh so your only justification is cause they look better? Well gee, I guess I can call them a ricer mod too then. I got LED's for a purpose the law allows for 2 colors, I chose white. Do some homework before you go blasting your fingers off.
And how does this go from LED's to a comparision to being about performance? I'm pretty sure you can find 14" rims that are lighter than 16" rims.. so straight line they're not a performance mod.
go get your bulbs confiscated. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by JdmCrx
go get your bulbs confiscated.
Too late, I plan on getting them back |
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| JdmCrx |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
Too late, I plan on getting them back
yea.. let me know how that goes for ya. :rolleyes: |
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