| bluesuburbansky |
OK guys, I'm wondering if any of you have ever had this type of problem or have any ideas as to what could be wrong with my car:
Civic VX (1992) won't start. It's happened to me about 4 times now and bascially I can crank and crank but it won't turn over (I hope I'm using the right terminology -- dumb girl doesn't speak car language :) ). What I mean is the battery is fine but somethings not in the electrical stuff or maybe in the fuel line?
Sometimes I get a kind of funny noise when I turn back the key which my dad said sounds like maybe the starter catching up ??? (it's not quite a whirring and not quite a moaning sound).
A few of the times I came back a few hours later and it started fine and a few times it just took a several tries at turning the key and then it starts. One time, my dad pulled out one of the spark plugs to check and see if I was getting a spark and he said when it's cranking but not turning over, there's basically no spark but when, out of the blue, it decided to turn over, there was a good spark. He opened up the distributor and found a little connector for something was disconnected so we thought that was the problem but it's happened several times since.
Any ideas? I hate this stupid car! It has been nothing but trouble. :(
Also, any recommendations for good shops in Sherwood Park if I have to take it in? |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by bluesuburbansky
OK guys, I'm wondering if any of you have ever had this type of problem or have any ideas as to what could be wrong with my car:
Civic VX (1992) won't start. It's happened to me about 4 times now and bascially I can crank and crank but it won't turn over (I hope I'm using the right terminology -- dumb girl doesn't speak car language :) ). What I mean is the battery is fine but somethings not in the electrical stuff or maybe in the fuel line?
Sometimes I get a kind of funny noise when I turn back the key which my dad said sounds like maybe the starter catching up ??? (it's not quite a whirring and not quite a moaning sound).
A few of the times I came back a few hours later and it started fine and a few times it just took a several tries at turning the key and then it starts. One time, my dad pulled out one of the spark plugs to check and see if I was getting a spark and he said when it's cranking but not turning over, there's basically no spark but when, out of the blue, it decided to turn over, there was a good spark. He opened up the distributor and found a little connector for something was disconnected so we thought that was the problem but it's happened several times since.
Any ideas? I hate this stupid car! It has been nothing but trouble. :(
Also, any recommendations for good shops in Sherwood Park if I have to take it in?
Hi bluesuburbansky,
When the key is turned to the "on" position is there a clicking noise? If so then it is your battery.
When the key is turned does the car sound like it is turning over really, really slow. If so, it could be your battery or your starter. Could be a combination of both. I would first get your battery tested. You can bring the battery in to Partsource or Canadian Tire where they can test it for free. If your battery is fine, then perhaps your starter is the culprit.
The whirring noise you heard is more than likely your fuel pump. That is fine, the pumps will always make this noise. Perhaps maybe your fuel pump is on the fritz. Do you know where your fuel filter is on your car? If so, try to squeeze the fuel lines together with your fingers when the car is in the on position. You fuel pump should be producing enough pressure to fill the lines to the point where you can not press them together with your fingers. Try this on the line that feeds into the fuel filter and the line that exits the fuel filter. When the car is running, try it again. If you feel pulsation on the line that enters the fuel filter or you can squeeze them together then I would suggest your fuel pump is on its way out. If the line that leaves the fuel filter can be squeezed, or pulsates a little, then it is time for a fuel filter replacement.
These are just a few ideas. I know you mentioned the battery is fine, but it is still worth a look at.
What were the conditions like when the car had these problems? Was there alot of moisture in the air? It could potentially be your distributor also.
If you are taking your car in, it is best to be on your gaurd. Alot of times places will try to take advantage of you because you are a girl. I'm not playing a game, just making an observation.
Hope this helps,
Mike Nikolai |
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| Nightstalker |
| Mine has a issue with battery terminals. Check yours if they are loose or corroded it will happen. The sound you here when you turn the key to the on position is the fuel pump. Its always there you likley just didn't notice it before. |
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| TrevorK |
Does your car have a distributor or ignition coil?
If it has a distributor you can check the cap/rotor. If your father says you aren't getting spark, that's the first place to check. |
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| Nightstalker |
| The car has a Distributor with a ignition coil inside it :p |
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| gab |
| same thing happened to my buddys civic, the ignition wire wasn't making a connection on the back of the tumbler. has it ever died or stuttered while driving? |
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| bluesuburbansky |
Thanks for all the advice! I realized tho I was not very clear with my original post so maybe I can explain better:
What happens is the engine will crank/turn over beautifully but will not fire. I hope this time I'm using the right phrases. So, for that reason I really think it's not the battery. The sound I'm talking about that is sort of a whirring and a moaning and maybe even grinding comes when you turn the key to the OFF position after trying to start it. It's a very different sound from the sound of the fuel pump when you turn the key half way (I'm dumb but I do know what the fuel pump sounds like).
Today it would not start with many many tries. Then I plugged it in for a couple hours and after maybe 4 tries (turning the key) it started, not very happily but it did. If I turn it off immediatly and then try again it starts just fine. So, tonight just to see I started plugging it in for a bit and then unplugging it to see what it needs to start and it seems like if I plug it in for half an hour it'll start (again with several tries). Also, it used to start just fine without plugging in at -25C.
GOT BOOST:
I appreciate the warning about shops -- I have experienced the wonders of discrimination! It's amazing how they change their tune when my daddy walks in. I'm booked at Autotech (they've worked on this piece of junk before) but they are so busy right now.
Nightstalker:
Don't think battery is an issue -- daddy and I did a little clean up on the battery a few weeks ago. Terminals were terribly corroded but not anymore.
gab:
Nope, no problems with driving. It runs just like normal once it starts. Never stalled. (Nice car of yours, btw, don't suppose you'd like to trade? ;) )
So, all you wonderfully helpful gentlemen:
I'm wondering if this could be due to moisture in the distributor?? I know some of you mentioned the distributor and I kind of think everytime this happens it's been more humid outside (car is really frosted up).
Stupid question but if it is water in the distributor and I replace distributor cap/rotor will this problem be solved or do I have to figure out why I'm getting water in there? Do I have to replace the whole distributor?
If you have any more ideas, please post! I sure appreciate it! Sorry for being so long-winded.
Btw, anyone want to buy a Civic VX? Ha ha! Just kidding. :D |
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| mwdguy |
| if you think its a moisture issue spreay WD40 on and around every ignition component |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by bluesuburbansky
Thanks for all the advice! I realized tho I was not very clear with my original post so maybe I can explain better:
What happens is the engine will crank/turn over beautifully but will not fire. I hope this time I'm using the right phrases. So, for that reason I really think it's not the battery. The sound I'm talking about that is sort of a whirring and a moaning and maybe even grinding comes when you turn the key to the OFF position after trying to start it. It's a very different sound from the sound of the fuel pump when you turn the key half way (I'm dumb but I do know what the fuel pump sounds like).
Today it would not start with many many tries. Then I plugged it in for a couple hours and after maybe 4 tries (turning the key) it started, not very happily but it did. If I turn it off immediatly and then try again it starts just fine. So, tonight just to see I started plugging it in for a bit and then unplugging it to see what it needs to start and it seems like if I plug it in for half an hour it'll start (again with several tries). Also, it used to start just fine without plugging in at -25C.
GOT BOOST:
I appreciate the warning about shops -- I have experienced the wonders of discrimination! It's amazing how they change their tune when my daddy walks in. I'm booked at Autotech (they've worked on this piece of junk before) but they are so busy right now.
....
Stupid question but if it is water in the distributor and I replace distributor cap/rotor will this problem be solved or do I have to figure out why I'm getting water in there? Do I have to replace the whole distributor?
If you have any more ideas, please post! I sure appreciate it! Sorry for being so long-winded.
Btw, anyone want to buy a Civic VX? Ha ha! Just kidding. :D
Hi bluesuburbansky,
There is no such thing as a stupid question. It may more than likely be moisture in your distributor. My bro's 200 SX had the same issue a while back. We could not figure out why it would not start when it had just rained or when there was alot of moisture in the air. Moisture may be getting in by something as simple as a screw missing to create the proper seal from the cap and rotor. Or your distributor may have a crack. If it starts fine all other times and only presents an issue when it is humid then I would be willing to bet you need to replace your cap and rotor. If this is the cause of your grief, then yes by replacing these items this will cure your issues.
Hope this helps.
Good to hear you have your dad to step in to keep the shady characters from overcharging. :D
Mike Nikolai |
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| Flex |
If Autotech is real busy, try Access Automotive. They are off 170st just behind the truckstop at yellowhead and 170st.
Its a small shop and the serviceis excellent. And Rob will not take advantage of you cause your female. I recommend them to someone else on the board and they really liked their service as well. |
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| Mathew |
| i would say look for currosion on your starter relay or make sure that the relays are even working... try just replacing them. |
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| S O |
My car had ignition trouble with wet weather last year, and I found the problem to be an ignition wire. There is a single wire which runs from my coil to my distributor, and in wet (or simply humid weather) it was grounding. Replacing this wire solved everything.
DH |
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| Mekanik22 |
quote:
Originally posted by Mathew
i would say look for currosion on your starter relay or make sure that the relays are even working... try just replacing them.
It's cranking over fine she said.
Civics are notorious for having distributor/ignition system problems. I'd do the small stuff first. Check the plugs, check the wires for cracks or burning inside the boot, pull the distributor cap off and make sure the terminals don't have crud built up on them. If the problem persists after that, do some distributor tests.
If there is water in there, you can dry off the inside of the cap and put the cap back on done deal. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
So, we changed the cap and rotor -- still had same old problem.
So I took it in to the shop and I had to get a completely new distributor. I guess we could have gone thru all the wires and connections and stuff but the tech said the bearing was wearing out and it seemed like some strange stuff had been going on (arcing or something) and so my dizzy was generally in bad shape. To make a long story short, my car is perfectly happy with a nice shiny new dizzy. Starting great. And an added bonus: when I bought the car, the tach wasn't working, and now it is -- seems the problem was at the connector to the dizzy. (I know, I know. Tach not working should have been a warning sign about car -- but I was desperate and stupid. :( )
Of course it doesn't end that easily, tech found out when he went to set the timing that the timing belt is out a tooth/notch. So another project to tackle (me and daddy are gonna try to do it -- his big dream is to make a mechanic out of me -- ha ha ha!).
Anyway, thanks for all the advice! You guys are great! |
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| Nightstalker |
| Was it ahead or behind by a tooth ? I remember back when my hondata was killing my D series distributors, it made the tac jump all over the place it was pretty sweet. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
Was it ahead or behind by a tooth ?
Not sure, I'd have to look and see if they wrote it on the invoice (which is at home and I'm at work). Does it make a difference? |
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| Nightstalker |
Well usually if its advanced a tooth its extreamly bad, I think I worked it out to something like 11 degrees a tooth. It would make your car loud and seem like it has a lot of power.. Untill you melted a whole threw a piston. Did you car ever sounds like you were shaking marbles around in the top of the motor when it was under heavy load ?
If it was retarded 11 degrees the car would likley just run like shit. Bog, sputter.. not want to start.. all that good stuff. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
Hey, Nightstalker, you have a VX, right?
Now that the tach is working it's making me a little confused. I've always thought I'm supposed to keep the RPMs above 2000 when just driving normally (as in, not accelerating, etc...).
But I've been driving based on engine sounds (since the tach didn't work), and it seems that I've been driving mostly at 1500 RPM (and it really didn't sound like I was lugging)? I can do 60 clicks in 3rd gear at 1500 RPM? Is that normal? Is the VX like that maybe?
I'm not used to Hondas either. First manual I drove was a 4 speed so it was pretty hard to be at too low RPM and my Mazda's gears were pretty different (and that car had no tach). |
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| Nightstalker |
I drive between 1000 and 1500 most of the time in the city. Now that your tac works have you noticed the factory shift light ? (it should come on at low load any time the car is over 2000rpm) The VX was built to be the most fuel efficient civic ever made. As far as I know to date it still is, minus maybe the new Euro diesel. Its also the lightest actual civic. Its lighter then the CRXs to except the first gen HF model. ;)
How many Kms are you getting to a tank. Mine gets just under 500kms for about 25L give or take 5L. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
I drive between 1000 and 1500 most of the time in the city. Now that your tac works have you noticed the factory shift light ? (it should come on at low load any time the car is over 2000rpm)
Yup, the cute little arrow. It was working even when the tach wasn't. But I'm not sure if I trust it -- it would come on when it seemed like there's no way I should be shifting up (if I did you could hear the engine lugging). But maybe that relates to the problem with the distributor? I'll have to pay more attention now that I have the tach.
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
How many Kms are you getting to a tank. Mine gets just under 500kms for about 25L give or take 5L.
Wow! That's what I was hoping for but mines been pathetic lately. I did 380 or so last time I filled the tank and I think I put in 30 L. I was not impressed. But again -- now with a new dizzy and once we fix the timing belt I'm hoping to do better. We are thinking it may be running too rich cuz I've got a bit of smoke coming out of my exhaust on start - up and it's not burning oil smoke.
And yes, these cars sure were ahead of their time! I saw on some website some guy claiming 60mpg on the highway! That's amazing. I think all the added stuff is funny too -- like the fancy rims just cuz they are super light. And in the manual it says they added the spoiler to improve gas mileage! Ha ha! |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by bluesuburbansky
So, we changed the cap and rotor -- still had same old problem.
So I took it in to the shop and I had to get a completely new distributor. I guess we could have gone thru all the wires and connections and stuff but the tech said the bearing was wearing out and it seemed like some strange stuff had been going on (arcing or something) and so my dizzy was generally in bad shape. To make a long story short, my car is perfectly happy with a nice shiny new dizzy. Starting great. And an added bonus: when I bought the car, the tach wasn't working, and now it is -- seems the problem was at the connector to the dizzy. (I know, I know. Tach not working should have been a warning sign about car -- but I was desperate and stupid. :( )
Of course it doesn't end that easily, tech found out when he went to set the timing that the timing belt is out a tooth/notch. So another project to tackle (me and daddy are gonna try to do it -- his big dream is to make a mechanic out of me -- ha ha ha!).
Anyway, thanks for all the advice! You guys are great!
Hi Bluesuburbansky,
Great to hear you got the problem beat with a new distributor. I had a strong feeling that may have been the culprit.
When you rip into the timing belt to set everything back to TDC you should replace the timing belt and tensioner pullies. While you are at it, replace the drive belts too. Ie) Your Alternator Belt, Power Steering, Water Pump, and Airconditioner Belt. Some of these belts drive multiple functions on the engine. It is much easier to replace them at that time then it is to rip it appart another time. To replace the timing belt in a civic is not that difficult to do, however it can be a little time consuming but I am sure you and your dad will have that beat. :D
As for the fuel milage, one thing you need to understand is that temperature, driving behaviours, idiling time, enging condition and tire inflation are all important factors when it comes to fuel milage of a vehicle.
Have you replaced your spark plugs and wires lately? How old are they? How about air filter? These are somethings that will help increase your mileage.
These are just a few hints I can offer to you.
Hope it helps,
Mike Nikolai |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by GOT BOOST
When you rip into the timing belt to set everything back to TDC you should replace the timing belt and tensioner pullies. While you are at it, replace the drive belts too. Ie) Your Alternator Belt, Power Steering, Water Pump, and Airconditioner Belt. Some of these belts drive multiple functions on the engine. It is much easier to replace them at that time then it is to rip it appart another time. To replace the timing belt in a civic is not that difficult to do, however it can be a little time consuming but I am sure you and your dad will have that beat. :D
No power steering or air con -- so no worries about that. The previous owner claimed she changed the alt belt and timing belt recently -- do I still need to change them? I'm thinking she was telling the truth just that the 'mechanic friend' who did it didn't know ANYTHING. The shop didn't say it need to be replaced -- just adjusted.
As for whether we can do it...we'll see. Dumb girl + dad who loves old old american cars (60s ford falcons) = possible trouble??? Probably not -- we have a Hanes and he's got lots of tools and a good head.
quote:
Originally posted by GOT BOOST
As for the fuel milage, one thing you need to understand is that temperature, driving behaviours, idiling time, enging condition and tire inflation are all important factors when it comes to fuel milage of a vehicle.
Have you replaced your spark plugs and wires lately? How old are they? How about air filter? These are somethings that will help increase your mileage.
Yah, yah. I do understand that. I'm hoping too when I get the ski rack off the roof, it may make a difference even.
No, haven't done plugs and wires. That's next on list after timing belt! This car was NOT supposed to be a
'Karen-learns-to-be-mechanic' car! But I guess it's a good thing. Air filter is good -- checked that.
Thanks for the advice again, Mike! Again, you guys rock. |
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| Nightstalker |
Would you like a step by step on how to do the timing belt on your car ? I am assuming that your dad has a general idea on what he is doing so i will just point out a couple helpful bits to him about hondas. He should be able to go from there.
There are timing marks on the crank timing belt and cam gears of your engine. I belive the D series have a up arrow and it says up on the cam gear. There will also be a mark on eather side of the gear that should line up with the top of the head with the valve cover off. (its been a while since I had to work on one.) The crank gear for the timing belt also has a timing mark for TDC that will likley be at about 10 o clock when you look at it from the drivers side wheel well. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
Would you like a step by step on how to do the timing belt on your car ?
Could you actually give me step by step directions (in some what dumbed down car speak), cuz I'd love that. Then I can be informed before we actually get to doing it.
Also, I forgot the valve cover has to come off -- now I have a reason to change the gasket! (It might be leaking a little.) |
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| GOT BOOST |
Hi Karen,
It sounds like the belts may be fine. I was going on the assumption that the drive belts have not been changed recently. To check them it is easy to do. Look for freying on the belt, inspect for cracked or missing chunks out of the rubber ribs. The belts will have some cracks on them but this is normal. I would think that it is safe to say that if the shop did not say they needed to be replaced then you should be alright. If in doubt they are usually under $25.00 per belt. The timing belt may be a bit more expensive.
If the timing belt has been replaced there will be a marking on the cam cover (usually a plastic cover that covers your cam shafts) This will have the date it was replaced and with how many km's were on the car when it was replaced. This will be a good indication if the previous owner was truthfull to you or not. When removing the old belt and if you are removing it, remember to mark on the belt the TDC position on the cam shafts. If your cams are out of position, there is usually a notch on the (inside of the timing cover to guide you to TDC)
As for the Haynes, it can be a good guide, however I have found that there are certain things the Haynes may or may not include. Sure the pictures help if you are working on that particular vehicle, however it has a few different options, you may be out of luck. Best thing to do is try to locate a Honda Service Repair manual on line. This will help guide you through the proper procedure with clearer instructions. If you need a Haynes I do have one kicking around that I can lend you. I used to have a 95 Civic DX a few years ago.
I my mind there is no such thing as dumb, just lack of experience. I think that you and your dad can figure it out pretty easy. Sure it may take some time, but if nothing else consider it a father and daughter bonding experience. :D
I agree with you. Once you remove the ski rack your fuel mileage will increase, however you will not be able to carry snowboards or ski's as easily.
Sounds like you have a good plan for the repairs on the car. There are a few places around town where you can pick up pre-owned car parts. For items such as plugs and wires I would purchase them new.
As for the 'Karen-learns-to-be-mechanic' car. Well, we all need to start somewhere. I think you will find you gain very valueable knowledge while working on it. Also you will learn some best practices and some "What not to do" learnings! :D
Hope this helps,
Mike Nikolai |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by GOT BOOST
Also you will learn some best practices and some "What not to do" learnings! :D
My "what not to do" learning so far is I shouldn't have bought the car! But actually, I'm starting to get attached to it. I think I could become a Honda fan (although they sure are slow)-- just that this particular car was not a smart buy. :thumbdown
Thanks, but I do have a Haynes.
Also, I'm never carting skis around on this car. Don't trust it for road trips! Couple days after I bought it the axle popped out of the tranny. Shop guys still aren't sure why. So I'm a little paranoid. |
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| REDX2NV |
quote:
Originally posted by bluesuburbansky
My "what not to do" learning so far is I shouldn't have bought the car! But actually, I'm starting to get attached to it. I think I could become a Honda fan (although they sure are slow)-- just that this particular car was not a smart buy. :thumbdown
Thanks, but I do have a Haynes.
Also, I'm never carting skis around on this car. Don't trust it for road trips! Couple days after I bought it the axle popped out of the tranny. Shop guys still aren't sure why. So I'm a little paranoid.
The clip on the end of the axle was not correctly seated when last installed properly. Usually it "pops" and locks in when you insert the axle into the transmision.
About the timing belt, be patient, take pictures, read the manual. Triple check that everything lines up and dont proceed unless you know that everythingis correct. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by REDX2NV
The clip on the end of the axle was not correctly seated when last installed properly. Usually it "pops" and locks in when you insert the axle into the transmision.
I'm not surprised you said that in a way! Every problem I've had so far seems to go back to shoddy workmanship. (That's why I'm saying should not have bought it -- should have noticed these things!) |
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| Nightstalker |
| A good reason to start doing things your self, as long as you understand what you are doing.. The timing thing is pretty important, and when I say if you mess it up big time there goes your motor. I will type out a step by step on how to do it on your car when I get home if I remember. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
quote:
Originally posted by Nightstalker
The timing thing is pretty important, and when I say if you mess it up big time there goes your motor. I will type out a step by step on how to do it on your car when I get home if I remember.
Yah, yah. One thing I do know is that timing is important. Even my grandma knows that -- everytime she hears a car squeal she thinks it's the timing belt breaking. (She's pretty cute but perhaps paranoid and misinformed).
I'd sure appreciate step by step directions. If you remember....
Thanks! |
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| Nightstalker |
Ok, step by step how to do this.. going 100% from memory. If anyone sees a issue here please say something.
1. Pull your car into somewhere indoors, and warm if possible.
2. Loosen the Drivers side front lug nuts (do not remove them)
3. Jack the front of the car up and place jack stands under it to hold it up. This is not required for both sides but personally I like working on a car that is at a even height. Make sure the car is high enough that you can get under it.
4. remove the lug nuts from the drivers side front wheel, and remove it from the car.
5. Go under the car and loosen the alternator bolt which holds it under tension. Again, you don't have to removed this just loosen it to the point where you can push the alternator towards the engine (forward on the car). After this is done you can remove the belt.
5b. Once you have the belt off its a good time to check it for cracks, breaks, cords. I think you said yours is new, so it should be fine. But it does not hurt to check it.
6. Remove the valve cover, this requires removal of the spark plug wires. I believe there are 5 nuts that hold the valve cover down. all 10mm.
7. Look at the crank pulley on the drivers side of the engine. Look for a arrow pointing up and 2 dash marks on either side of the cam gear. What you want to see is the arrow or where it says up at 12 O'clock and the dash Marks in line with the top of the head at 9 and 3 O'clock. The lines on the cam gear should line up with the head exactly. When this is true the crank should in theory be lined up with its timing mark meaning the engine will be at TOP DEAD CENTER or "TDC". This is extremely important later so make sure its lined up at this point. It makes your life a lot easier.
8. Remove the top half of the timing belt cover along the side of the engine. Once this is done place the valve cover back onto the head. This will just protect the valve train from something being dropped into it. ( A lot of people will likely say that stupid and a waste of time because its only going to be open for a short time. but I do it so screw them you never know what might happen)
9. Now go down into the drivers side wheel well and remove the bolt that holds the crank pulley in place. (the easy way to do this is have someone sit in the car. Put it in first gear and step on the brakes. Then use a extension to get a breaker bar outside of the fenderwell and go for it. Or you can be lazy and just use a impact. Personally I like the breaks method because it prevents the engine from moving.) You should see a small block cut out of the pulley it self. This will have a very small, and in some cases extremely hard to find if you drop piece called the crank pulley key. This key should be at 12 o'clock if the crank and pistons are actually at TDC. It won't be visible until after you remove the bolt.
10. Pull off the crank pulley. I recommend putting something under the engine at this point to catch the crank pulley key it it happens to fall out. It happens and depending on how clean your work area is it can some times be a real pain in the ass to find. This piece is only 2x2x10 mm is size. And if you loose it your crank pulley will not work correctly.
I was actually helping a friend do a mini-me swap on his CRX. The crank key fell out and we couldn't find it anywhere. My buddy Graham ended up straining threw nearly 4L of oil looking for it. only to find it in a jug of coolant that was also under the car at the time it was lost.
11. OK, there should be a small spacer behind the crank pulley once you remove it this comes off as well.
12. Remove the lower timing belt cover, there should be a bunch of 10mm bolts.
13. After this is removed look at the gear which is attached to the crank. Its the lowest gear on the side of the motor. The same one that the crank pulley came off. There should be a small mark on it which lines up with a mark on the engine block at about 10 o'clock.
If these Marks line up perfectly and the engine is still lined up correctly up top. Your timing belt is in the right spot.
14. If they are not, or you want to replace the belt you now have to loosen the tension er. To find this follow the belt up along the rear side of the engine (to the right side of the crank pulley when looking at it from inside the wheel well.)
It should go up to a second gear and then threw a smooth wheel which actually sits on the outside or smooth side of the timing belt. This will have a bolt which should be a 12mm or a 14mm holding it to the engine. Loosen but do not remove it. This will add slack to the timing belt.
15. At this point if you feel like being a little destructive you can actually cut the belt if your planning to replace it. If not then just go to the next step and leave it on the motor.
16. Go find another jack stand.
17. Place the jack stand under then oil pan. I suggest putting a block of wood between the jack stand and the oil pan to prevent it from creating a pressure point and denting the oil pan in.
18. Now go back up into the engine bay and remove the drivers side upper engine mount. (this is required so that you can get the new timing belt in place.)
19. Remove the valve cover again
20. Pull the current timing belt off of the engine.
21. If you want to check the belt for wear flip it inside out so the teeth are on the outside. Pull the sides in so that it looks something like a upside down U and then look for signs of wear. The belt should have no cracks, you should not be able to see the cords and it should have a crisp edges.. Its not really a good descriptor but its the best I can thing of right now.
22. Place the new belt, or your used one back around the engine mount. Star from the very top of the cam gear and go down the gear to the left (counter clockwise) feeding the teeth of the timing belt into the teeth of the cam gear. Make sure its taunt, but you don't want to pull on it because this might move the cam gear up top and mess up the timing. Go around the crank gear and then continue feeding the belt around the rest of the gears and threw the tension-er.
23. Re-bolt the engine mount to the engine/car.
24. Once this is done re check the cam gear and crank gear to ensure that they are still both lined up with their respective marks. If this is true tighten the tension-er. You will likely find that there is a bit of slack in the belt. That's OK, don't reef on the tension-er in a hope of fixing it, we will deal with that in the next couple steps.
25. take the crank bolt and thread it back into the crank. Once this is tight turn the engine back about 3 teeth on the cam gear (this will mean turning the engine counterclockwise. (the crank bolt will likely have to be a bit tight because your going to be working against the compression of the engine, which is the same direction as loosening the bolt. (Taking the car out of gear helps though ;). So does pulling the spark plugs if you feel like really going hard. ). After the engine has been moved back move it back to the right. This will have moved all the slack in the timing belt to the tensioner side of the engine. Finish tightening it now and the timing belt should be snug. If you push on it there shouldn't be more then maybe at most 2mm of movement pushing in on it from the side between the cam gear and crank gear.
26. There the timing belt is in the right spot.
27. Put the lower timing belt cover back on the engine.
28. Put the spacer back onto the crank
29. Put the crank pulley key into the slot on the top of the crank
30. Very carefully put the crank pulley back onto the crank without knocking off key.
(You might be able to put the key in afterwards as you are a girl and likely have hands like the little Asian people that built these cars. I have big clumsy white man hands that don't really like doing things with super small parts.)
31. Put the crank pulley bolt back in.. Tighten it down (it requires a higher amount of torque. If your having issues actually getting it to torque down to the proper amount have someone sit in the car and use the in gear brake trick again.
32. Now, this is where you should really get out a timing gun and time the engine properly. Small adjustments in timing can be made by loosening the 3 bolts that hold the distributor in place. I say loosening because you don't want it to come off. You just want to get it to the point where you can rotate it.
33. Once proper timing is set pull the valve cover back off and put the upper timing belt cover back on. then put the valve cover back on. Re-check that the crank bolt is torqued correctly again.
34. Put the wheel back on the car.
35. Take it off the jack stands.
36. Properly torque the lugs now that its on the ground.
37. Go drink some beer knowing you have just made sure your car was timed correctly.
I was getting kinda board of typing near the end there. I am sure some of you guys will find mistakes in it.. I think its a pretty good description going 100% from memory of something I have not done in a couple years.
MAKE SURE YOU CHECK YOUR MANUAL FOR TORQUE SPECS FOR EVERYTHING. |
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| bluesuburbansky |
Wow! That's pretty concise! Thanks and more thanks.
How can you just remember all of that off the top of your head?
Anyway, couple more questions:
1. how long do you think this will take?
2. i looked at my invoice and it says "tech SUSPECTS timing belt is out 1-2 teeth". if my car seems to be running fine, what's the chances that the tech could be wrong? Shouldn't it be pretty noticable? |
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| REDX2NV |
| I did a timing belt last week, should take a weekend with a haynes manual. |
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| Nightstalker |
quote:
Originally posted by bluesuburbansky
Wow! That's pretty concise! Thanks and more thanks.
How can you just remember all of that off the top of your head?
Anyway, couple more questions:
1. how long do you think this will take?
2. i looked at my invoice and it says "tech SUSPECTS timing belt is out 1-2 teeth". if my car seems to be running fine, what's the chances that the tech could be wrong? Shouldn't it be pretty noticable?
If it was 2 teeth out you would notice FOR SURE. 1 is noticeable if you know how the car should preform.
If you have done a timing belt before it should take a couple hours at a relaxed pace. But since you have not done it before I would say follow Gregs advice and leave it for a week end job. |
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