| S2000_rider |
As you all may know, over the last few days there has been a major uproar in the Muslim World with regards to the cartoon of the Prophent Muhammed(PBUH).
Frankly speaking as a Muslim, I'm quite embaressd as the reaction of Muslims worldwide.
Is it offensive? Absolutely....but I can tell you right now...the Muslims that have reacted violently by killing, burning cars destroying everything in site and calling for the death of individuals are in my opinion COMPLETE MORONS!
Protest peacefully, do whatever you can by peaceful means to have the comic removed...but do NOT lift one finger with violent intent. It really boggles my mind that we're already looked upon in the world as terrorists for UNJUSTIFIABLE reasons like Palestinians fighting the occupation and the Iraqi's fighting the occupation in Iraq which are COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED and I support these freedom fighters to the fullest extent...
But these dumb ass's who are causing violence are not helping spread the word of Islam as a Religion of peace...Anyone can argue the position of the Muslims fighting in Iraq and Palestine as valiant and justified....but this!?!?!
It's just pathetic! Why don't these radicals understand that they are only hurting our image by such ridiculous reactions!!!!!
I don't get what these guys are thinking!!!! |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
I don't get what these guys are thinking!!!!
Really? :dunno:
I'm not real big on religion, but you should be able to figure out why these people are doing what they are doing. When you have a dogma that is used as the basis for an entire society (whether its religion, nationalism, beer, etc.) you have situations where little goofy things cause massive reactions within the more fervent "believers" in the population. :loco: |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Really? :dunno:
I'm not real big on religion, but you should be able to figure out why these people are doing what they are doing. When you have a dogma that is used as the basis for an entire society (whether its religion, nationalism, beer, etc.) you have situations where little goofy things cause massive reactions within the more fervent "believers" in the population. :loco:
I hear ya,
It is unfortunate however that these radicals are taking it to the extent of issuing death rates and causing havoc. You want to protest, by all means...but peacefully! Boycott all the products you want...but to become violent and cause complete and utter chaos? NOT EXCUSABLE! NOT AT ALL!
It's down right embarrasing...Muslims already are having a tough time in the media becuase of Iraq and Palestine which like I mentioned are very worthy causes that the media has completey backwards...but this just adds UNNECESSARY fuel to the hatred of Muslims...
The fact is, Muslims should be protesting equally for any cartoons on Jesus(pbuh) or Moses(pbuh). Jesus(pbuh) is actually mentioned more times in the Qu'ran then Muhammed(pbuh). A bit hypocritical if you ask me...
I feel a major clash is brewing...it's only a matter time before it explodes... |
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| bigmack000 |
| lots of christians and catholics found the movie dogma HIGHLY offensive yet they didn't go killing and burning down places . people need to lighten up. :rolleyes: |
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| kyuu |
| religion breeds fanatics |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by LeadSled
Check out this take on the Muslim cartoons and some comparison's of Christian cartoons.
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=99
I actually find both cartoons of both prophets equally offensive.
I honestly think when it comes to Religion, newspapers should be wary in printing such cartoons as it's quite insulting.
Was the outrage justified...absolutely not. Protest peacefully and do whatever you can by peaceful and possibley economical means (fines, boycotts) but in this particular situation, violence is NOT the answer. |
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| ehos |
| But... they're not funny. Or profound, or, well, anything... |
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| LeadSled |
Now Gary Larson can make a funny religious cartoon. I remember one with God playing Jeopardy and just downright kickin ass, thats good stuff :D
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| bigmack000 |
quote:
Originally posted by kyuu
religion breeds fanatics
like some people say.
they belive in god but nto religion because Religion separtates and divides. |
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| sparkycivic |
| reason # 65536 that I have no use for any religion: they can't all be right, but they could certainly be all wrong. there's no correction factor the the "human factor" in these things, which probably all started out peaceful and orderly. |
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| snugs |
| Ok, we've addressed what we think about the whole thing, but who wants to have a go at guessing where this will lead (if anywhere)? |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Ok, we've addressed what we think about the whole thing, but who wants to have a go at guessing where this will lead (if anywhere)?
Snugs, that is an excellent question.
I was just thinking about that right now. I honestly think a major confrontation is about to happen on (forgive me in sounding cliche) biblical proportions.
Shit is really getting heavy. Things are brewing at a very fast pace...Once Israel/U.S. attack Iran that will, in my opinion the straw that breaks the camels back.
It will clearly depict to the Middle East (aside from Israel of course) that the U.S. is clearly targeting Arab countries that don't fall in line with their agenda.
In this war, countries will have to take sides. It will be very interesting to see where China stands. We all know that China is making leaps and bounds right now and they are rising very fast. In my opinion they are just waiting for the time and opportunity to established themselves as the number one dog in the world. They will obviously not send troops to defend Iran but I wouldn't be surprised that if a full scale war broke out, they would fight it by proxy. We all know that American forces are stretched VERY THIN...US debt is at an all time low. Public opinion worldwide is horrendous for the states. It's only a matter time before they fall...something we may see in our lifetime.
Anyhow, like I said...things are going downhill VERY fast...2006 will be a very interesting year. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Public opinion worldwide is horrendous for the states.
True, which is why I find it interesting how people keep referring to this cartoon thing as a global issue... a crisis that affects everybody, and portrays the islamic world in a very very negative way. Especially at a time when the US is now actively trying to garner support for taking action against Iran.
It is odd that the things were originally published in September of last year, but all this $hit is happening now, almost 6 months after the fact.
....I just hope Canada doesn't get sucked up into another manufactured conflict because Harper doesn't have the backbone to tell GWB to go pound sand. :fingersx: |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by bigmack000
like some people say.
they belive in god but nto religion because Religion separtates and divides.
I say that. :D
quote:
Originally posted by Ehos
But... they're not funny. Or profound, or, well, anything...
No. But it's controvercial, which is almost as good, these days.
To answer Snugs question. I don't think we'll see anything new. We'll just see the polarization and battle that's been happening in the middle east for centuries, finally manifest itself in western Europe and eventually America. |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
True, which is why I find it interesting how people keep referring to this cartoon thing as a global issue... a crisis that affects everybody, and portrays the islamic world in a very very negative way. Especially at a time when the US is now actively trying to garner support for taking action against Iran.
It is odd that the things were originally published in September of last year, but all this $hit is happening now, almost 6 months after the fact.
....I just hope Canada doesn't get sucked up into another manufactured conflict because Harper doesn't have the backbone to tell GWB to go pound sand. :fingersx:
6 months ago? I didn't know that...interesting. What you said does make sense though...it is a perfect opportunity for the U.S. to garner support for military action against Iran. I too hope Canada doesn't throw it's support behind a war against Iran. The last thing I want are terrorist attacks on Canadian soil.
It will be interesting to see how this year unfolds. I will very likely be visiting the middle-east again this summer to visit my brother in Dubai and a few months after that, I will be in Saudi Arabia as well. Haven't visited the mid-east for 2 years so it will be interesting to see what they have to say then. |
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| oldraven |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
It is odd that the things were originally published in September of last year, but all this $hit is happening now, almost 6 months after the fact.
Six months ago? Shite!
Interesting the things that happen when a President is facing Impeachment. Osama pops his head out and says, 'Let's make a deal.' Then six month old news about evil Muslim fanatics hits every stream of American media. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by oldraven
Six months ago? Shite!
Wikipedia has a little write up about it, but on the blogs they're finding all kinds of weirdness.
http://www.neandernews.com/?p=54%20. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
What you said does make sense though...it is a perfect opportunity for the U.S. to garner support for military action against Iran.
....damn this is so familiar....
http://www.juancole.com/2006/02/con...ames-syria.html
' US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran and Syria, both at loggerheads with the west, of inciting violence over the cartoons for their own purposes.
Speaking at a Washington news conference with Israel’s Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, Rice said: “Iran and Syria have gone out of their way to inflame sentiments and to use this to their own purposes — and the world ought to call them on it.”
She said nothing justified the violence and appealed to governments to urge calm.
“There are governments that have used this opportunity to incite violence,” she added, referring to Syria and Iran. ' |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
....damn this is so familiar....
http://www.juancole.com/2006/02/con...ames-syria.html
' US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran and Syria, both at loggerheads with the west, of inciting violence over the cartoons for their own purposes.
Speaking at a Washington news conference with Israel’s Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, Rice said: “Iran and Syria have gone out of their way to inflame sentiments and to use this to their own purposes — and the world ought to call them on it.”
She said nothing justified the violence and appealed to governments to urge calm.
“There are governments that have used this opportunity to incite violence,” she added, referring to Syria and Iran. '
Interesting read...very well known journalist who's been on CNN a few times as well:
http://www.ericmargolis.com/ |
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| SilverZ24 |
I can't believe how crazy this is getting. One guy makes a cartoon. One guy. And a reward is offered for his death and they basically are protesting any country where the majority of the population is white. Even though the majority of the people in those countries probably haven't even seen the comics (I know myself and most people I know haven't yet) and don't actually give a rats ass about them.
From the Journal today:
quote:
Pakistani cleric offers cash reward for killing Prophet cartoonist
PESHAWAR, Pakistan -- A Pakistani cleric announced a $1-million US bounty for killing a cartoonist who drew the Prophet Muhammad caricatures, as thousands rallied across the country Friday and authorities arrested scores of protesters.
Police put another Islamist leader under house detention amid fears religious radicals would incite more deadly demonstrations after Friday prayers. Five people have been killed in Pakistan this week during protests, but most demonstrations Friday were peaceful.
In Denmark, where the prophet drawings were first published in September, the government said Friday it had temporarily closed its embassy in Pakistan following the violent protests this week.
Pakistan recalled its ambassador to Denmark for ''consultations'' about the caricatures, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said.
Mohammed Yousaf Qureshi, prayer leader at the historic Mohabat Khan mosque in the conservative northwestern city of Peshawar, announced the mosque and the Jamia Ashrafia religious school he leads would give a $25,000 reward and a car for killing the cartoonist who drew the prophet caricatures - considered blasphemous by Muslims.
He also said a local jewellers association would give $1 million, but no representative of the association was available to confirm it had made the offer.
''This is a unanimous decision of by all imams (prayer leaders) of Islam that whoever insults the Prophet deserves to be killed and whoever will take this insulting man to his end will get this prize,'' Qureshi told about 1,000 people outside the mosque after Friday prayers.
Qureshi did not name any cartoonist in his announcement and did not appear to be aware that 12 different people had drawn the pictures. The crowd outside the mosque burned a Danish flag and an effigy of the Danish prime minister.
The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten first printed the Prophet drawings by 12 cartoonists in September. The newspaper has since apologized to Muslims for the drawings, one of which shows Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban with an ignited fuse.
Other western newspapers, mostly in Europe, have reprinted the pictures, asserting their news value and the right to freedom of expression.
The publication of the drawings set off weeks of protests across the Muslim world in which at least 19 people have been killed, most of them in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
In Islamabad, former U.S. president Bill Clinton criticized the drawings, but said Muslims wasted an opportunity to build better ties with the West in mounting violent protests.
''I can tell you most people in the United States deeply respect Islam ... and most people in Europe do,'' he said.
Protesters shouted "Death to Musharraf" as they were bundled into two police buses, referring to Pakistan's leader, President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
Zafar said they were being taken to a police station because they were violating a ban on rallies in Punjab which was declared after deadly riots in Lahore on Tuesday.
In Karachi, police fired tear gas and swung batons to disperse about 2,000 protesters, many wielding sticks, who blocked the main highway into the southern city, said Alim Jafari, a Karachi police official. The road was cleared and some 30 protesters were detained, he said.
The crackdown follows violent protests in Pakistan this week in which five people died and Western businesses were vandalized and burned.
Clerics at mosques across the country condemned the cartoons.
"Oh God, please punish those who dared to publish these sacrilegious cartoons . . . Give enough power to the Muslim countries and enable them to take revenge," said Qari Saeed Ullah, a prayer leader in Islamabad.
The cartoons first appeared in a Danish newspaper in September and have since been condemned as blasphemous by the Muslim world. One of the drawings shows Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban with an ignited fuse.
In Islamabad, former U.S. President Bill Clinton criticized the cartoons but said Muslims wasted an opportunity to build better ties with the West by holding violent protests.
"I can tell you most people in the United States deeply respect Islam . . . and most people in Europe do," he said. Clinton was visiting to sign an agreement with Pakistan's government on an HIV-AIDS project by his charitable foundation.
Hafiz Mohammed Saeed, chief of the radical group Jamaat al-Dawat, became the first religious leader detained by authorities since protests began in Pakistan early this month. He was due to make a speech in Faisalabad, about 120 kilometres away.
Intelligence officials have said scores of members of Jamaat al-Dawat and assorted militant groups joined the Lahore protest on Tuesday and had incited the violence in a bid to undermine Musharraf's government.
Witnesses said that about 7,000 staged a protest at Rawalpindi, near the capital, on Friday and another 5,000 in the southwestern city of Quetta. There were no immediate reports of violence.
I wonder how long will this go on? And what they actually think they are accomplishing? |
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| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverZ24
I can't believe how crazy this is getting. One guy makes a cartoon. One guy. And a reward is offered for his death and they basically are protesting any country where the majority of the population is white. Even though the majority of the people in those countries probably haven't even seen the comics (I know myself and most people I know haven't yet) and don't actually give a rats ass about them.
From the Journal today:
I wonder how long will this go on? And what they actually think they are accomplishing?
They will accomplish nothing...those that are protesting violently are morons. Again you want to protest, do it peacefully but burning things down and attacking people is not right.
Having said that, those magazines that are RE-PRINTING the cartoons AFTER seeing the reaction are a bunch of assholes who have another agenda in my mind. AFTER seeing the reaction they are INTENTIONALLY adding fuel to this fire to piss people off. |
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| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverZ24
I can't believe how crazy this is getting. One guy makes a cartoon. One guy. And a reward is offered for his death
Salomon Whodie? Salowhat Rushdie? :drama: |
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| shorti |
| I wonder if those fucktard realized how stupid they're looking to the rest of the world right now. |
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| SilverZ24 |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
They will accomplish nothing...those that are protesting violently are morons. Again you want to protest, do it peacefully but burning things down and attacking people is not right.
Having said that, those magazines that are RE-PRINTING the cartoons AFTER seeing the reaction are a bunch of assholes who have another agenda in my mind. AFTER seeing the reaction they are INTENTIONALLY adding fuel to this fire to piss people off.
I agree with both points. There is no point to continue publishing the cartoons. At the same time, the protestors need to realize that with the net, the pics will probably never die (I don't know if they are posted on the net, but they most likely are) and they will need to come to terms with that.
There is stuff all over the world that offends all kinds of people. If everyone resorted to violence people would never stop fighting.
And I am glad that it seems so far in Canada and the US it has for the most part been handled well with no violent protests that I have heard of so far. :beer: |
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