| charger_guy |
| 4-point harnesses...i have 4 point seat belts lined up 4 my charger...are they legal, and if not y? |
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| Mustard |
wow. this has been covered MANY times...
it's not...
cause it's against "THE LAW"
but i've met a few cops that said they prolly wouldn't give youa ticket unless they were giveing you a ticket for something esle alreadya nd you were being a jackass...
ie. i met one bylaw guy who said if he was doing a seatbelt check stop, he wouldn't give the ticket if you were wearing it, and it looked safely installled, BUT he would give it if he pulled you over for speeding in a school zone, and he wanted to make sure you lost your license for a year...
so you decide.
i'm installing mine this year. |
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| charger_guy |
quote:
Originally posted by Mustard
wow. this has been covered MANY times...
it's not...
cause it's against "THE LAW"
but i've met a few cops that said they prolly wouldn't give youa ticket unless they were giveing you a ticket for something esle alreadya nd you were being a jackass...
ie. i met one bylaw guy who said if he was doing a seatbelt check stop, he wouldn't give the ticket if you were wearing it, and it looked safely installled, BUT he would give it if he pulled you over for speeding in a school zone, and he wanted to make sure you lost your license for a year...
so you decide.
i'm installing mine this year.
thanks thats all i needed to know...all the other BS u just posted i didn't need to know...i laugh how a safer seat belt is considered against law |
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| albertarc |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
thanks thats all i needed to know...all the other BS u just posted i didn't need to know...i laugh how a safer seat belt is considered against law
It is because there is no Motor Transport standard for installation or style of harness used. We all know that most are installed properly but then there will always be the person who uses sheet metal screws or decides to put grade 8 bolts through rusted floor pans.
Jimbo:rolleyes: |
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| driftr420 |
i've actually talked to a few officers about this. right now as it stands they can give you a ticket, but it's really easy to beat in court because the harness is actually safer than a stock seat belt, if it's installed properly. so judges throw it out all the time.
but like the other guys stated if your being an ass hat at the time of the ticket or you get multiple fines, good luck getting the judge to have sympathy for you. |
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| icydude |
I had lots of police look at me while driving.....never had issues with the harness.
the stock seat belt was also left in place so i guess you were just adding on to the safety equipment in your car. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
| Are the 4-point harnesses for the track? |
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| Rich_A |
what's funny is.. these harness systems are so much safer than most all seatbelts. the only legal issue I would address is if you allowed people to sit in the back of a 2 door car that utilized a harness bar because it would block exit of the vehicle in an emergency for the rear passengers.
air-bags do as much damage as they prevent - seat belts cause serious harm sometimes in head-ons even though they prevent you from flying out of the car.
a harness is just such a better system. it's more conveniant to release, won't give such severe whiplash, will keep you planted better .. and therefore probably aids an airbag in saving you rather than hurting you.
hell, every car should have a nice thick steel mig-welded harness bar and some nice Takata harnesses :thumbup: 4 or 5 point who cares. |
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| icydude |
| the harness i have used bolted to the subframe in the back seat.....makign the back seat useless:) |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| the point that jimbo is trying to make here is that yes, they are safer, IF INSTALLED properly. however the govt can not regulate every back yard mechanic who thinks they know what they are doing and install these harnesses wrong, they get in an accident and as he said, the bolts they drove through the rusted floor come loose and you go flying out the window. They can however, regulate the mass production practises at the factories to ensure that all factory harnesses are installed properly =D |
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| Rich_A |
| why not just make it law to have a bolted harness bar in your car if you want to use one? cop can easily check that.. and if it looks like a hackjob - get sent for an inspection. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| too much liability issues... |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
why not just make it law to have a bolted harness bar in your car if you want to use one? cop can easily check that.. and if it looks like a hackjob - get sent for an inspection.
way too time consuming, its easier and more practical to make it illegal. |
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| Mustard |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
way too time consuming, its easier and more practical to make it illegal.
unfortunate, but true.
They COULD have a system similar to that of SMOG testing in the states...
if you wanna install it, YOU have to bring it to a place to get it check out, then if it's ok, you get a sticker or something.
That can't be THAT hard to implement.
Just have 1 day a month when you can have it checked out or something... like those baby seat check days.
Meh, it'd be nice, but it'll never happen, it IS a lot easier to just make it illegal. But like i said earlier, you can do it, just know that it's against the law to do so, but it's a very SOFT law, from what i've heard from most of the law enforment folks i've talked to about it. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
The reason they don't do anything like that is there's no reason.
There is no good reason to wear a racing harness over a 3-point OEM belt on the street. |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
what's funny is.. these harness systems are so much safer than most all seatbelts. the only legal issue I would address is if you allowed people to sit in the back of a 2 door car that utilized a harness bar because it would block exit of the vehicle in an emergency for the rear passengers.
air-bags do as much damage as they prevent - seat belts cause serious harm sometimes in head-ons even though they prevent you from flying out of the car.
a harness is just such a better system. it's more conveniant to release, won't give such severe whiplash, will keep you planted better .. and therefore probably aids an airbag in saving you rather than hurting you.
hell, every car should have a nice thick steel mig-welded harness bar and some nice Takata harnesses :thumbup: 4 or 5 point who cares.
you're kidding right!!harnesses are in no way safer for a street car!!!
think of it this way if you roll your car and you don't have a roll cage it's instant brain damage or death... harnesses are designed to keep you upright and in position which would be very bad... i would not recomend it for street use because things happen... |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
you're kidding right!!harnesses are in no way safer for a street car!!!
think of it this way if you roll your car and you don't have a roll cage it's instant brain damage or death... harnesses are designed to keep you upright and in position which would be very bad... i would not recomend it for street use because things happen...
what!? harnesses are designed to do the same thing a seat belt does. :blink: |
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| Rich_A |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
you're kidding right!!harnesses are in no way safer for a street car!!!
think of it this way if you roll your car and you don't have a roll cage it's instant brain damage or death... harnesses are designed to keep you upright and in position which would be very bad... i would not recomend it for street use because things happen...
Same as a seatbelt - just less damaging to your body and more reliable.
You = wrong. |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
Same as a seatbelt - just less damaging to your body and more reliable.
You = wrong.
x2 |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
Same as a seatbelt - just less damaging to your body and more reliable.
You = wrong.
look it up guys... there's a reason they recommend that you have a roll cage...
actually i was talking to murph about this at one of the meets, he races as well, and he said the same thing.
it's a very common misconseption that they are safer in a street car.. |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
what!? harnesses are designed to do the same thing a seat belt does. :blink:
not exactly... they both will keep you in place but the seat belt will allow you to move forward or bend in the case of a blow to the head, therefore easing the blow to the head/neck....
where as a harness does not allow for this movement or bending in the case of an impact to the head... |
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| charger_guy |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
not exactly... they both will keep you in place but the seat belt will allow you to move forward or bend in the case of a blow to the head, therefore easing the blow to the head/neck....
where as a harness does not allow for this movement or bending in the case of an impact to the head...
but there is always another side to the story...that extra movenemt could cause you to hit your head on dash, window aand so on...and three point is horrible on your shoulders, it causes a very bad twist acction when getting hit. ive seen people i know get cut by the belt because of all the weight being supported by that point...the more points being supported, the less pressure on those points...i feel much safer with 4 point then a lapbelt and or shoulder belt...too me its common sense. |
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| 86lx |
quote:
Originally posted by charger_guy
but there is always another side to the story...that extra movenemt could cause you to hit your head on dash, window aand so on...and three point is horrible on your shoulders, it causes a very bad twist acction when getting hit. ive seen people i know get cut by the belt because of all the weight being supported by that point...the more points being supported, the less pressure on those points...i feel much safer with 4 point then a lapbelt and or shoulder belt...too me its common sense.
You may feel safer with a 4 point harness, but you are putting yourself at a huge risk. In a collision where you are thrown forward, the lap belts will be pulled up off the pelvis and into the abdomen, likely causing internal damage. The design of a 3 point seatbelt prevents the lap belt from rising off the pelvis, and most cause the lap belt to tighten as the torso moves forward.
A 5/6 point harness with rollover protection can be argued to be safer than a 3 point, but a 4 point is the most dangerous system of them all. |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by 86lx
You may feel safer with a 4 point harness, but you are putting yourself at a huge risk. In a collision where you are thrown forward, the lap belts will be pulled up off the pelvis and into the abdomen, likely causing internal damage. The design of a 3 point seatbelt prevents the lap belt from rising off the pelvis, and most cause the lap belt to tighten as the torso moves forward.
A 5/6 point harness with rollover protection can be argued to be safer than a 3 point, but a 4 point is the most dangerous system of them all.
agreed, 5pt=good, 4point=bad. I still would rather a harness(lets not forget with a harness you are including a racing seat and proper harness bar) then a 3pt. |
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| charger_guy |
| the only difference between 4 and 5 point is the strap that comes up between the legs. all that strap does is prevent you from sliding out when rolling over. in theory a race car is way safer then a street car...so implying the same theory that they use 4-5 point 4 racing , should make it safer to run them in a street car. the main reason they are against the 4 or 5 point on the street , is the fact they think it takes longer to get out of a 4-5 point harness than a traditional 3 point |
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| shawley |
| isn't the big deal against them that the fireman can not cut the 4 and 5 point hanesses as easily as they can cut regular seat belts when ur in an accident to get u out |
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| Nightstalker |
| Properly installed a Harness is safer. But very few are actually installed correctly. Which is why its easier to just say they are illegal on the street. I have a 5 point in my car, I don't use it for street driving.. even though my race seat makes the factory belt fit incorrectly. If you own one you likley understand why not.. I find mine to be a pain in the ass to do up every time I get into the car. The factory one just hooks across and your done. aside from that do you always want to be pinned back in your seat while driving around town.. I think not. |
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| chukirps13 |
| I'm gonna install my ebay Br1de seats with my home made sheet metal rails, my dozen point rollcage, my dozen point racing harness, and wear one of those white open face moped helmets with the stylish black visor in the front and prepare myself for the 0.2 km/h left turns of grocery getting. |
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| ehrgeiz |
| I run a 6 point harness with an FIA shell and rollover protection. If you don't intend on installing roll over protection and a good seat stay away from a harness. I've been pulled over twice with it on and not once has there been a problem. |
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| REFLUX |
I am 100% positive that this VERY issue has been discussed before, a search will yield you with past results.
To sum it up:
Harnesses were meant to be used with a Helmet and Rollover protection.
Harness - rollover protection + street = bad
Harness + rollover protection + street = alright
Harness + rollover protection + helmet - street = best
A harness is only 1 part of a safety system designed for Track Cars, just as airbags + 3pt belts were designed for Stock Cars.
Mess with one and you mess with the entire safety system.
How much is your safety worth to you?
Same argument I put forward to people who purchase cheap helmets. |
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| charger_guy |
| thats true...but my car has no saftey features what so ever...so the seats and harness will be by far better than stock...i do plan to cage the car soon too. |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by chukirps13
I'm gonna install my ebay Br1de seats with my home made sheet metal rails, my dozen point rollcage, my dozen point racing harness, and wear one of those white open face moped helmets with the stylish black visor in the front and prepare myself for the 0.2 km/h left turns of grocery getting.
you sound like a complete noob... but ok do what you want...
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX I am 100% positive that this VERY issue has been discussed before, a search will yield you with past results.
To sum it up:
Harnesses were meant to be used with a Helmet and Rollover protection.
Harness - rollover protection + street = bad
Harness + rollover protection + street = alright
Harness + rollover protection + helmet - street = best
A harness is only 1 part of a safety system designed for Track Cars, just as airbags + 3pt belts were designed for Stock Cars.
Mess with one and you mess with the entire safety system.
How much is your safety worth to you?
Same argument I put forward to people who purchase cheap helmets.
ya I know.... thanks for clearing that up... |
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| REFLUX |
There is also the issue of breaking your skull open on a rollbar/cage when driving a car so equipped without a helmet.
The human body has a large amount of "give" to it and at high rates of speed & force, your neck can stretch far enough to crack your head on one of those nice, thick, solid, metal tubes that consist of your rollover protection.
So some will probably think: "What the hell, I'll just put foam lining around it, like those pool noodles."
That won't do anything to protect your head against metal bars.
Imagine your head travelling at 60km/h, what is 2" of low density foam going to do for you? Nothing.
If you don't believe me, an average person can run a top speed of 20-25km/h, now imagine how "comfy" 2" worth of pool noodles will do for you when you meet a metal pole.
And that's ONLY at 20km/h!
How about high density foam? Like SFI foam that can be found @ Mopac or IOPortRacing.com?
That may be better but ultimately it won't save your life. That foam was not designed with "skull protection" in mind. At most it was designed to further enhance the safety provided by your helmet against metal bars and maybe to soften the blow when your arms & legs flail around in a rollover scenario while bouncing off other parts of the rollcage.
So what kind of foam can you use to save your head from those nasty, bone breaking metal bars?
The foam found in a helmet, or preferably the actual helmet itself.
Again, it comes back to using a helmet when your head is in close proximity to metal bars but in the end, the decision is up to the user.
How much is your life worth to you? When a "worst case scenario" happens, it'll be too late to regret not putting safety ahead of the dollar. |
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| chukirps13 |
quote:
Originally posted by Fish_e_o
you sound like a complete noob... but ok do what you want...
ya I know.... thanks for clearing that up...
I'm a complete n00b for forgetting sarcasm doesn't work over the internet y0...
Can you feel the sweet G Forces yet? |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by REFLUX
There is also the issue of breaking your skull open on a rollbar/cage when driving a car so equipped without a helmet.
The human body has a large amount of "give" to it and at high rates of speed & force, your neck can stretch far enough to crack your head on one of those nice, thick, solid, metal tubes that consist of your rollover protection.
So some will probably think: "What the hell, I'll just put foam lining around it, like those pool noodles."
That won't do anything to protect your head against metal bars.
Imagine your head travelling at 60km/h, what is 2" of low density foam going to do for you? Nothing.
If you don't believe me, an average person can run a top speed of 20-25km/h, now imagine how "comfy" 2" worth of pool noodles will do for you when you meet a metal pole.
And that's ONLY at 20km/h!
How about high density foam? Like SFI foam that can be found @ Mopac or IOPortRacing.com?
That may be better but ultimately it won't save your life. That foam was not designed with "skull protection" in mind. At most it was designed to further enhance the safety provided by your helmet against metal bars and maybe to soften the blow when your arms & legs flail around in a rollover scenario while bouncing off other parts of the rollcage.
So what kind of foam can you use to save your head from those nasty, bone breaking metal bars?
The foam found in a helmet, or preferably the actual helmet itself.
Again, it comes back to using a helmet when your head is in close proximity to metal bars but in the end, the decision is up to the user.
How much is your life worth to you? When a "worst case scenario" happens, it'll be too late to regret not putting safety ahead of the dollar.
i think you took my coment as sarcasm.. i just wanted someone to back me up and say harnesses aren't safe for the street...
but to every one else alot of good info above if you have a roll cage in a street car... but i still wouldn't wear a helmet on the street ( it restricts vision to much) but padding is a good idea.. |
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| REFLUX |
Fish-e-o:
Haha sorry man I just noticed a lot of bickering back & forth over harnesses so I decided to just make one big post :p
I was talking to an instructor @ Race City and he told me he once had a student that he taught, owned some race prep exotic and after the driving school at the track...he drove right home.
Only thing was that he forgot to take off his helmet so ppl in Calgary saw this fully decked out supercar with a driver wearing his head gear.
He said he got a LOT of funny looks. :p
So there you go, driving on the street with a helmet is doable
ahhaha |
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