| ChromeDragon |
So in two days the war that will more than likely end up in the annhialation of the human race a few years down the road, will begin. I don't really feel like talking about how disgusted I am towards the US and UK and how they are not even willing to give peace a chance. Diplomacy has failed and we will see the UN crumble just as the League of Nations did after WWI. I'm interested to see how this war will go, but I'm also terrified as to what the results and repurcussions will be.
Watching the Israeli people build air tight rooms and line up the thousands of beds outside the hospitals for the people that they know will be there soon. I can not comprehend how it feels to prepare for the deaths of thousands weeks beforehand, this truly makes me feel sick to my stomach. Thousands of tiny gas masks issued to every Israeli child, with a little fan to help them breathe in because their little lungs aren't stong enough to breath through the filter on their own. When you see how it affects the innocent of the wars, even before the war has happened, it makes you think. I can't fathom that the hundreds of children that I saw on the news tonight will soon be dead, maimed by bombs and bullets, dying in writhing agony after breathing in the chemical weapons that have been released upon them because of a war that does not need to happen.
Matt |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
| I knew this was going to happen -_- what's the friggin point of "veto" power and the U.N and their almighty security council if no one abides by the laws |
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| REFLUX |
quote:
Originally posted by SlowAzzPorsche911T@Mar 17 2003, 06:30 PM
I knew this was going to happen -_- what's the friggin point of "veto" power and the U.N and their almighty security council if no one abides by the laws
the USA will get theirs
guaranteed |
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| inglewood |
| 48 hours...i feel proud that canada won't patricipate in this genocide. that's one thing this year that jean chretien has done that's earned my respect. steve harper leader of the alliance dissappointed me with his comments...i've thrown in my towel as a member of that party. i don't support fascists. |
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| ChromeDragon |
I've moved further and further away from the Alliance party and their overly capitalist attitudes, I don't believe that everyone should be stuck out on their own, some people need help.
Anyways, not to get off topic. |
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| inglewood |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Mar 17 2003, 08:16 PM
I've moved further and further away from the Alliance party and their overly capitalist attitudes, I don't believe that everyone should be stuck out on their own, some people need help.
Anyways, not to get off topic.
not to get off the topic as well, but i just wanna say i agree with you. i joined the party on invitation by our caucus president here in st.albert, and i figured, well i do have some differing views about the party platform, and he said that's fine, they need that, but after i heard steve harper's speech accusing chretien of supporting hussein because he opted out of not fighting in a non-un sanctioned war, i was just totally dissappointed. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
Hmmm. I disagree.
UN has failed the world before. (I don't remember which genocide attempt that the UN failed to stop or lift a finger)
In the view of many commentators, the UN has already suffered a loss of credibility by having Iraq and Iran co-chairing the May session of the UN Conference on Disarmament and by electing Libya to chair the March session of the Human Rights Commission. Defense Secretary Donald. H. Rumsfeld's reaction was "that these acts of irresponsibility could happen now, at this moment in history, is breathtaking...Those acts will be marked in the history of the UN as either the low point of that institution in retreat or the turning point when the UN woke up, took hold of itself, and moved away from a path of ridicule to a path of responsibility."
In the light of the long history of Iraq's obstruction of the inspection process and Security Council reluctance to take a firm stand on previous "material breaches", it is to be hoped that this time any Iraqi failure to comply will be met with an appropriate use of military force rather than continued postponement of action and resort to use of ineffectual sanctions. In the words of UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, " This is a time of trial for Iraq, for the United Nations and for the world.If Iraq's defiance continues the Security Council must face its responsibilities".
President Bush said:
" The United Nations was born in the hope that survived a world war--the hope of a world moving toward justice, escaping old patterns of conflict and fear. The founding members resolved that the peace of the world must never again be destroyed by the will and wickedness of any man. We created the United Nations Security Council, so that, unlike the League of Nations, our deliberations would be more than talk, our resolutions would be more than wishes. . . .The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of U.N. demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?"
Furthermore, as South Korea pushed ahead with efforts to resolve peacefully a nuclear standoff with North Korea, the Bush administration said Friday the U.N. Security Council must step in.
North Korea, which pledged in 1994 to freeze development of plutonium-based nuclear weapons, has admitted it is working on nuclear arms based on uranium. It also has announced it would quit the landmark 1968 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.
"This is a serious matter, and we think the Security Council needs to take up the issue because it's a matter involving international peace and security," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said.
The United Nations nuclear agency, meanwhile, announced it will hold an emergency meeting to consider putting the dispute before the Security Council, spokesman Mark Gwozdecky said in Vienna Friday.
Formally notifying the Security Council that North Korea had breached its obligations under international nuclear accords could lead to economic sanctions or other punitive measures against Pyongyang. North Korea has said sanctions would amount to a declaration of war.
In my eyes, the United Nations has grown fat with power, naive, and self centered.
Now I sure as heck don't like wars, but in this situation, I think it is just.
I think Cretien is off his rocker, he is certainly hurting relations with the US in the future.
This particular war is not a choice and should not be. THe world cannot and will not be a free and wonderful place to live with the likes of Bin Laden running around.
Fear that Afghanistan can rebuild by calling surrounding communities for help is still a threat.
There have been reports of Bin Laden linked with Saddam, could you blame him, Saddam is a businessman terror is his business and business is good. I wouldn't doubt it if Saddam is hiding Bin Laden.
The first thing you can do is to do everything you can to discourage ANY and ALL acts of terrorism, then track them down and punish them.
Keep running Bin Laden, you'll only die tired. |
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| RF134A |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueTurboEGG@Mar 17 2003, 07:43 PM
Hmmm. I disagree.
UN has failed the world before. (I don't remember which genocide attempt that the UN failed to stop or lift a finger)
It was Rwanda. 250,000 people died because Rwanda has no known economic value and its economic is a vast wasteland of corruption.
Some people just overreact. Look at Nigeria. So what if some guy said that the prophet Mohammed probably would've chosen a wife from the Miss World contestants? Those silly Nigerians slaughtered 100s of their own people and burned churches for this silly article. Idiots... Most of Africa and the Mid-East is a lost cause. Say something wrong and have some psycho knife you or blow themselves up in front of your school...
Iraq has been avoiding UN resolution 1441 for quite a while. When asked for a list of their weapons of mass destruction, they sent a 13,600 page document that doesn't say anything about what they have or don't have and leave it up to the UN to go through all that crap to determine if they do or don't have WOMD. They avoid talking about their stockpiles and threaten the families of their scientists, etc in order to hide the truth. If they really DID want to fully comply with resolution 1441, they wouldn't threaten their scientists.
And hey Trudeau you stupid son of a bitch, get the f*ck out of Iraq before the Americans start dropping bombs on your head! You're not doing Canada any good by pretending to be oh-so-holy and pretend to "monitor" Iraq for human rights violations BY the US of Eh. MOAB doesn't give a sh!t that your father is Pierre Trudeau, the pre-eminent Canadian diplomat!
I guess some people are just too stupid to live. If he dies, he definite deserves a Darwin Award.
http://www.afsoc.af.mil/panews/conventional_bomb.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/11/...ain543611.shtml |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
| THanks Ray, I thought it was Rwanda, but I wasn't sure... |
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| inglewood |
hm...war is so hypocritical.
you don't fuck for virginity, so why do you bomb for peace? |
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| SlowAzzPorsche911T |
| if you want peace you must prepare for war as the age-old proverb goes.. problem is there is already peace and Sadam IS NOT a threat.. it's just justification for slaughtering 10's of 1000's of Islamic people to get to one asshole... :wtf: |
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| RF134A |
quote:
Originally posted by SlowAzzPorsche911T@Mar 17 2003, 09:36 PM
if you want peace you must prepare for war as the age-old proverb goes.. problem is there is already peace and Sadam IS NOT a threat.. it's just justification for slaughtering 10's of 1000's of Islamic people to get to one asshole...
What do you mean there's already peace? There's no peace in the Mid-East and Africa! Look at all the fighting in Israel & Palestine!
There's a civil war going on right now in Sierra Leone, Cote D'Ivoire, Zimbabwe, Rwanda and other African countries. Thousands are dying in these countries but does anyone care? NO! There are no known products of economic importantance in any one those countries except Cote D'Ivoire. They produce 80% of the world's cocoa supply. No one cares if the price of chocolate goes up 100% but they do care if oil goes up 100%. The Russian mafia is making a killing off war diamonds produced from slave labour in Sierra Leone. No, it's not just a crappy James Bond plot, but it's actually happening right now as we speak.
You may think there's peace, but there isn't. Look away from what's on TV and look at what's actually happening in the world. Not everything is on tv.
Nobody thought some short guy named Adolf Hitler was a threat in 1924 when he wrote Mein Kampf while rotting in jail. Guess what happened 20 years later? World War 2. And that didn't happen overnight, did it? |
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| ChromeDragon |
How fucking hard would it be for the Americans to just sneak a team into Baghdad and assassinate Hussein? Please don't get me wrong based on my post before, I wholeheartedly agree that Hussein should be removed from power, but this is not the way to do it. Why do thousands of innocents have to die(I know this hasn't happened, but it is inevitable), for their tyranical leader to be removed. If Saddam had any bit of decency he would go into exile, but obviously this man has absolutely no compassion for human life. Does this make it right to go in guns and bombs a blazing?? In my opinion no it does not.
And are you serious about Hussein hiding Bin Laden? Jesus christ, they have spent many months and millions of dollars trying to prove that there is a link between Iraq and Sept 11 and found absolutely nothing. Don't try to fool yourself that this is part of the war on terrorism, it is no such thing, if it was there wouldn't be so much opposition from the world.
Chromey |
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| black5speed |
I unfortunately have to agree with the U.S going to war with Iraq.. personaly I think that they gave Iraq more than enough time to disarm... also... it's not like the U.S is going to attack civilian targets... yes some citizens of Iraq will die and that is extremely unfortunate.. but at the same time, if the states go to war or not, there will still be civilian deaths in the U.S from terrorist attacks.. the terrorists aren't attacking army bases.. they're attacking civilians, because that gets the most publicity.... also.. I'm sure they're handing out gas masks to children because saddam is going to use biological weapons on the attacking troops, and the weapons radius is going to kill it's own civilians.. but saddam doesn't care........ sorry this is so incoherent.
oh ya.. and if ppl want to know why some of the U.N countries are vetoing;.. it's because they have strong economic ties with Iraq.. like the PM of france... if he hadn't become PM he would have gone to jail for some crimes he commited.. france also trades with Iraq WAY more than they trade with the U.S .. so of course they don't want saddam out of power.. they don't care about the threat of attack as much as the states do... they're more interested in the money they make from Iraq....
Like bush said (I'm sure he didn't write the speech.. but he said it) they are eliminating the threat before it becomes to large to handle..
but on the other hand I also think that they shouldn't try to impose democracy on the ppl of Iraq... democracy is supposed to come from the ppl over throughing the government... but I guess ,.. saddam keeps dissent under control in Iraq.. so even if the ppl wanted to change the system they couldn't .. right.. well I'm too tired to keep writing.... sorry if this makes no sence. |
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| ChromeDragon |
Is this what you want?
quote:
"The world has a clear interest in the spread of democratic values, because stable and free nations do not breed the ideologies of murder - George W Bush
Then what is the United States? Seeing as they have the highest murder rate of any country in the world, this would make them the least stable country in the world if reason stands.
I'm sick of hearing about how the Americans think they are justified in this. They are going to kill tens of thousands of INNOCENTS for no truly justified reason. I was watching footage of Israeli children and their families preparing for the inevitable war today. Every citizen was given a gas mask for when the chemical weapons are released. The thing that really got to me though was them explaining how the little childrens gas masks have fans on them to assist in their breathing because their little lungs aren't strong enough to breath in through the filter on their own. This little detail nearly brought me to tears, no child deserves to live like that, no adult deserves to live like that. The hospitals were lining up thousands of beds outside for the future casualties of war. They were sitting in the same outdoor compound as the hundreds of decontamination showers for washing off the remnants of chemical weapons. To know that those beds will soon be full, that many of those children attending preschool will soon be dead is overwhelming.
When you get through all the dispute and corruption and misunderstanding, you start to see the people that are going to be affected, and it puts a lump in the back of your throat, an ache in your heart that just won't go away, and a question in your mind of 'will this ever end?'
Chromey |
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| s2oooR |
its a tough situation.....if u dont disarm Iraq....does Iraq continue to build weapons of mass destruction? .....if so....u may have peace at the moment but then who knows when Saddam will go nuts and start launching left and right?
U can use North Korea as an example too......if the world doesnt do anything about it....does that mean its ok for the rest of the countries in the world to have nuclear weapons too? Just because nothing has happend yet, doesnt mean something wont happen in teh future....why wait and even let that opportunity for greater destruction to arise?
Lets use an even better example. 9/11. Could we agree that there was relative peace before the tragedy? ....Could we have prevented this tragedy from happening if we had gone after Bin Laden earlier? Going after these terrorists with more zeal (for lack of a better word) would have made organizing 911 more difficult, IMO.....
I wonder where all the peace-people were 911 happend? i didnt see anyone crying out "dont attack afghanistan".......what u guys are saying is to "turn the other cheek" .......go ahead and turn it.....they'll just bomb your ass some more......imagine that? Iraq bombing the peace protestors? .....how ironic would that be? |
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| ChromeDragon |
That's what this past 6 months has been about though, Iraq can not be linked to terrorist activities at all whatsoever. When it comes down to it, I'm more afraid of the US gov't using nukes than anyone else in the world. They are attempting to use deterrence like the cold war, but these countries aren't the USSR, and they wouldn't stand a chance if the US decided to start nuking. So what would they have to lose by keeping their weapons and at least having a slight chance of defending themselves if war to errupt?
What you guys seem to be stuck on is that the Americans are right, you've gotta step back and look at the whole situation, only then will you start to see how ludicrous it is. The US is not infallable, they can be and will be wrong. Take a look at the situation from the other points of view, they seem to believe they are right, why don't you find out why?
Chromey |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
By us not helping the US, do you think the US will help Canada if we become the victim of violence or a large scale terrorist attack?.
I saw the same broadcast you did CD, and last I checked, the only person to be using chemical weapons or even threatened to use them was Saddam.
I've always maintained that Bin Laden and Saddam were linked, even before all this broke out. There is just too they can gain from working together, now this is all sheer speculation, but I remind you, this has not either been proved nor disproved.
But right now, I think the bigger threat is N.Korea, they're like the Japanese before they hit Pearl Harbour. Patient, blatantly showing their brass, and making everyone in the region nervous.
If US goes to war, I'd keep a close eye on that little corner of the world.
Everything is hanging in a serious balance, people are poised to attack and who knows what is to come of it. |
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| FingerPuppet |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Mar 18 2003, 03:43 AM
So what would they have to lose by keeping their weapons and at least having a slight chance of defending themselves if war to errupt?
And who whould they nuke in defence, you fathead. US! |
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| FingerPuppet |
I'm fully behind the U.S. Look what happened in WW2 Nobody did anything about HITLER and BOom; he took over Europe.
Saddam is just another power mongering HITLER!
North Korea is also F@cking up, the U.S. and Japan are going to have to contend with that next.
The UN is acting like a dog with it's tail in-between it's legs, the U.S. is the only one that is taking command of this situation, and Whoora, I hope they take all the oil so we don't have to pay in the future |
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| s2oooR |
I just dont think we should be fooled that there is peace, just because there is no war at the moment (or prior to all this happening). Like i mean, what is the world waiting for if most ppl want peace? Is everyone waiting for the Terrorists or ppl like Saddam, N. Korea, etc etc....to attack first and THEN it would be ok for us to attack? ....are u saying that its ok for them to attack first and bomb OUR people, all in the name of peace? If that were the case, the U.S should have done nothing when 9/11 happend......im sure there were 1000s of innocent Afghani's killed as a result.
Im sure your not saying its ok for them to attack us first.....but its the opportunity. Why should they have the opportunity to build up their arsenal in the name of peace? I dont think we should be taken advantage of when everyong pulling for peace are having their eyes blinded by saddam and all these terrorists. And it's PROVEN that Saddam did not abide by the treaty he signed back in 1990 (or whever it was).....So in that respect, all peace-people have had the wool pulled over their eyes already....because for the past 12 years, Saddam has been building these weapons illegally. |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin, speaking to Europe 1 radio, said today "One country can win a war, but it takes more than one country to win peace."
Do you honestly believe that you can equate Saddam Hussein's Iraq with Adolf Hitler's Germany? Granted there are similarities between their ideals, but Hussein is nowhere near the brilliance of Adolf Hitler. Don't start calling me a Nazi, I hate Hitler, but he was a brilliant man, as psychotic as that brilliance may have been. Saddam is nowhere near the threat that Hitler was. The reason that these Israeli's are preparing for this, is because the US are attacking. They were fairly secure beforehand, but they know that Saddam will retaliate if attacked, he will not rest on his laurels and let Iraq be taken without a fight.
Please do not think I am empathizing with Saddam, I am empathizing with the Iraqi citizens, as well as the citizens of all the neighbouring countries that will be affected by this war. The innocents that will die needlessly because the United States Government will not give diplomacy a chance.
This is a dark day in the history of humanity.
Matt |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by FingerPuppet@Mar 18 2003, 06:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Mar 18 2003, 03:43 AM
So what would they have to lose by keeping their weapons and at least having a slight chance of defending themselves if war were to errupt?
And who whould they nuke in defence, you fathead. US!
So you're honestly telling me, that if you were standing there with someone pointing a gun at you, you would drop your gun even though you know full well they are going to shoot at you whether you drop it or not?
Like I said before you guys have to step back and look at it from everyones point of view, even if you may not agree with it. You will not defeat your enemy if you cannot understand your enemy. I want Saddam removed from power as much as any American, but I know that going to war with the whole country is not the answer. Had the US exercised a little patience and allowed the UN weapons inspectors to complete their search, we may have found the weapons and Saddam would offer them up for destruction, this is what was promised. But the US was getting so pissed off that they were not finding anything, and more than likely wouldn't, that they said fuck it, and are going to attack anyways. The US gov't is impatient as hell when they can jump into a war that will benefit them.
Matt |
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| Pro Drag |
I'm with the Egg on this. I am inclined to believe that Hussein and N. Korea are in this thing together.
Hussein is not a stupid man, he know's how and when to push people's buttons. Keep an eye on N.Korea as soon as the US get's a MAJORITY of it's troops and armament in place.
There is something strange brewing in this whole mess, I don't think many will survive unscathed.
Think of it this way, which would you respond to with more vigor?
Yourself being attacked and tortured by a known enemy, or that same enemy attacking and torturing a loved one?
The US like's us floppyheaded (Southpark) Canuck's. That's one of the only reason's we share the largest UNPROTECTED border in the world with them. If you wanted to piss of the American's the most, who would you attack? |
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| ChromeDragon |
| Unprotected my ass, that's why there is a 14 hour delay for trucks trying to deliver goods all along the border? |
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| RF134A |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Mar 20 2003, 12:05 AM
Unprotected my ass, that's why there is a 14 hour delay for trucks trying to deliver goods all along the border?
That's for trucks. Go to Niagra Falls. You can strap some Syntex to yourself and walk across the border. The Canada/US border is the world's longest undefended border IF you don't go to an actual border crossing. Take the road less taken and you'll see why... especially if there's a Native reserve there. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
Then answer me this, those of you who oppose war:
What good would leaving Saddam in power do?. |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueTurboEGG@Apr 3 2003, 07:21 AM
Then answer me this, those of you who oppose war:
What good would leaving Saddam in power do?.
Oh god, how many times do we have to explain!
Nobody wants Saddam in power, but this is not the right way to go about it. The US' motivation is completely fucked up regarding this war, for some reason the populace is swallowing the propaganda that the media is dishing out, and they don't realize what this war is really about. The US gov't isn't doing it to help the Iraqi's, they don't give a shit about anyone but the US.
Chromey |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
Wasn't doubting how YOU feel Chromy, take a breath and relax :)
I've met others who oppose the war, but have their head too far up their asses to actually realize what is REALLY going on.
I beleive the only way to get Saddam out of there, is by force and force alone.
He will not leave, he has nowhere to go.
During his reign, millions have been tortured, threatened and murdered in his name.
True taking an entire country to war, there will undoubtly cause casualties, like anywar, but leave Saddam in charge, and he'll continue his murderous ways.
I believe in the long run, fewer people will die without Saddam in power. |
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| Pro Drag |
Saddam is a dictator who is using his own people as human shields to stay in power.
He shut the gates to Baghdad so innocent civilian's cannot escape.
He is not a stupid man and know's how to dish out his own propaganda which it seems alot of people are buying.
There is always two sides to every story and both sides are doing a very good job of trying to brainwash the objective viewer.
Why won't Hussein let the red cross visit the US P.O.W.'s?
The US has given the Red Cross full access to Iraqi P.O.W.'s |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
This is what changed my mind about 90% of the protestors out there today...
This is a 2.5 MB MP3 file, as always kiddies, back up any work you're doing...
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/anti-war-convo.mp3
Rather than getting together for a ralley with your head totally up your ass, get to know what your fighting for. |
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| FingerPuppet |
I totally agree with the U.S.
I don't know where people get off trying to downplay the U.S., For christ sakes we are all north america!! |
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| ChromeDragon |
Like I said, I agree that Saddam needs to be out of power, and that force is more than likely the only way to remove him. But if the US had waited 3 weeks, it was about a 95% chance that the UN would have fully backed and supported an invasion. But the US didn't want to wait, why? Well read my earlier posts.
Fact of the matter, what the US is doing is violating international law, they went over the UN, which is not a big surprise to anyone, they've been ignoring the UN for years. I still can't believe that the US gov't would have the gall to cite one of their blatant disregards for humanity as a UN failure(anyone wondering about this, look up Rwanda and the genocide that the US promoted in 1994).
Hussein needs to be removed, but I'm still wondering who is really the lesser of two evils here. The United States world domination plan will eventually come for Canada, and although I think it's completely outlandish, someone even spoke about the US possibly promoting a civil war between Quebec and the rest of Canada. To us this may seem insane, that it would never happen, but they never thought that it could happen in the majority of the countries the US had taken control of economically in the latter half of the twentieth century. Let us not forget our own problems, Bush is, and he's going to pay when they remove him from power in 2004.
Chromey |
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| inglewood |
I remember reading Clem's question about what benefit do you get leaving Hussein in power...that's not he issue at hand. If I could I'd walk up to Hussein, take off my pants and shit on his face.
Anyways, the fact is, this war is illegal, and two wrongs DON'T make a right. Take for instance, a murder happens, there's a suspect, they post his pic on America's Most Wanted...err, Canada's Most Wanted, and I happen to find him in public, if I kill him is that ok? Is it ok to take the law into my own hands? I think not. |
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| Drag-On |
| yup war never helped anything..... except Nazism, fasism, slavery.... |
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| inglewood |
| Can somebody justify the war now? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Apr 4 2003, 06:06 PM
The United States world domination plan will eventually come for Canada, and although I think it's completely outlandish, someone even spoke about the US possibly promoting a civil war between Quebec and the rest of Canada.
This is getting off topic, but I think the majority of Western Canada's poplulation would revel the opportunity to lay a beating on Quebec. My apologies to anybody that may offend.
Western money goes into that province and all that comes out are Prime Minister's that fuck the western province's even harder.
This might get a few good responses. B) This is for everybody that bitch's about the cost of merchandise in Canada. What would be so bad about becoming part of the United States? No more GST or provincial taxes. You earn $US, no more brokerage fee's on parts originating from the US. If anybody responds to this paragraph, I will tell them why we don't want to become an American State. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Apr 4 2003, 06:06 PM
... and he's going to pay when they remove him from power in 2004.
What lead's you to believe that he will not be a two term president? |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by inglewood@Apr 5 2003, 06:52 PM
Can somebody justify the war now?
It is not my place to justify another countries war against a third party.
However, if the United State's goal TRULY is to remove Saddam and his boys from power, preferably by marching them out into a courtyard full of opressed Iraqi citizens and letting nature take it's course, thus allowing the POPULATION to regain control/direction of the wealth of resource's under their feet, then I don't see a huge problem.
Harboring terrorist's or allowing terrorist's to be trained on your soil is something that the US made very clear was not going to be tolerated. IF you can believe the MEDIA REPORTS western culture is being exposed to, terrorist camps have been found on Iraqi soil.
The main reason France had a huge problem with US involvement in Iraq is the French Government had a pretty sweet deal going with Saddam. The French GOVERNMENT is/was perfectly content allowing a brutal dictator to stay in power as long as they get oil at a sweet rate, in exchange for supplying Iraq with whatever it could LEGALLY because of trade sanctions.
Having said that, for those of you who are going to argue the US is there for oil, think about this; If you lived in a dictatorial society, where your own wellbeing was far far down the list of "government" priorities, would you not be inclined to set up favorable relations with the group/country/government that liberated your people? I sure would.
So if the US get's a "good deal" on oil after this whole thing is hashed out, and ideally with Saddam and his regime eliminated, keep in mind that it might not be govenment conspiracy at work. It might be the decent side of human nature, where one feels compelled to return a favor in any way one can.
I'm going to watch Speedvision now. :bigthumbup: |
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| REFLUX |
| you know...with all this SARS paranoia going around......for a day or two, I actually forgot about the war |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueTurboEGG@Apr 4 2003, 03:15 PM
This is what changed my mind about 90% of the protestors out there today...
This is a 2.5 MB MP3 file, as always kiddies, back up any work you're doing...
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/anti-war-convo.mp3
Rather than getting together for a ralley with your head totally up your ass, get to know what your fighting for.
I just now clicked the link and listened to that audio transcript. If that is not justification, I don't know what is.
That is ASSUMING all the participants in that debate are authentic. |
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| Pro Drag |
Nobody wants to debate this anymore?
Don't tell me that all of you have been silenced. :blink: |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
<<up>>
:) we'll get someone talking :) |
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| WookeysRX7 |
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Apr 6 2003, 03:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Apr 4 2003, 06:06 PM
The United States world domination plan will eventually come for Canada, and although I think it's completely outlandish, someone even spoke about the US possibly promoting a civil war between Quebec and the rest of Canada.
This is getting off topic, but I think the majority of Western Canada's poplulation would revel the opportunity to lay a beating on Quebec. My apologies to anybody that may offend.
Western money goes into that province and all that comes out are Prime Minister's that f@ck the western province's even harder.
This might get a few good responses. B) This is for everybody that bitch's about the cost of merchandise in Canada. What would be so bad about becoming part of the United States? No more GST or provincial taxes. You earn $US, no more brokerage fee's on parts originating from the US. If anybody responds to this paragraph, I will tell them why we don't want to become an American State.
I wouldn't mind at all if the easter half of Canada was hacked off.....What good are they to us? All they do is make us have french all over the place...If you want french move your ass to France :D As for the prime minister...He's ancient/retarded. Did he not promise us that he would take GST away?
K thanks for listening to my ignorance.....You may continue.. :bigthumbup: |
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| ChromeDragon |
When it comes down to it, the GST isn't such a horrible thing, it helps provide our universal health care that we all love so dearly, low tuition rates at universities(you don't like paying 6 or 7k here? go to the states and pay 60 or 70).
In the end though I love Canada, I'm glad I was born here, and despite the shitty weather and high taxes, I can't think of anywhere else I would take off to unless I won millions of tax free dollars! hehe
Chromey |
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| HKSpowers |
| I agree, I think society will collapse in the end. League of nations dint work UN dint work what next? (Ironically the league of nations was a US idea and the US wasent even a member) |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Apr 8 2003, 09:35 AM
When it comes down to it, the GST isn't such a horrible thing, it helps provide our universal health care that we all love so dearly, low tuition rates at universities(you don't like paying 6 or 7k here? go to the states and pay 60 or 70).
In the end though I love Canada, I'm glad I was born here, and despite the shitty weather and high taxes, I can't think of anywhere else I would take off to unless I won millions of tax free dollars! hehe
Chromey
To take this thread even further off topic, the GST was introduced to help reduce the Federal Government's debt load. So far it has been an even bigger blunder than the Federal Gun Registry.
I love this country, the three most western province's in particular.
I will have to do more research but there was a government party who's sole interest was the seperation of B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan from confederation. There was a groundswell of support, I believe this was circa mid 70's, until party infighting destroyed everything. I believe the party was called the Western Alternative. |
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| Pro Drag |
| It is the Western Canada Concept party. Find out more Here. |
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| Pro Drag |
Having read through a majority of the information on the aforementioned website, I find myself in agreement with alot of their views.
I do not , however, agree with their view on halting immigration, or their seeming paranoia of religion other than Christian. |
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| inglewood |
| Yeah I stand proud to bear the red and white flag. I stand proud to call myself a Canadian. I was born in the East (Ontario) raised in the West (Alberta since age 6) so, I consider myself to be Canadian diverse produce. I will not support any type of separation from this country. |
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| Pro Drag |
quote:
Originally posted by inglewood@Apr 8 2003, 09:39 PM
Yeah I stand proud to bear the red and white flag. I stand proud to call myself a Canadian. I was born in the East (Ontario) raised in the West (Alberta since age 6) so, I consider myself to be Canadian diverse produce. I will not support any type of separation from this country.
Not to pigeonhole you into a group Inglewood, I just like to quote the person's words who set my brain in motion. :D
Do you ever wonder why the Canadian dollar is so weak against other world currencies? Why does a pre-manufactured part get taxed and dutied beyond belief once it LEGALLY cross's our border?
Tariff's and such are set up to protect the manufacturing segment of this countries economy. The problem with that is that 90% of the manufacturing industry in this country is located EAST of Manitoba.
While the Federal Government is tripping over themselves to protect the manufacturing industry because a majority of the electoral seats in this country are situated in manufacturing dependant economies, what have they done to encourage/aid western Canada's resource based economies? Nothing. Instead, they have made it more difficult for the western resource based economies to compete on the global market. |
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| inglewood |
quote:
Originally posted by PearlyWhiteTSI@Apr 9 2003, 02:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by inglewood@Apr 8 2003, 09:39 PM
Yeah I stand proud to bear the red and white flag. I stand proud to call myself a Canadian. I was born in the East (Ontario) raised in the West (Alberta since age 6) so, I consider myself to be Canadian diverse produce. I will not support any type of separation from this country.
Not to pigeonhole you into a group Inglewood, I just like to quote the person's words who set my brain in motion. :D
Do you ever wonder why the Canadian dollar is so weak against other world currencies? Why does a pre-manufactured part get taxed and dutied beyond belief once it LEGALLY cross's our border?
Tariff's and such are set up to protect the manufacturing segment of this countries economy. The problem with that is that 90% of the manufacturing industry in this country is located EAST of Manitoba.
While the Federal Government is tripping over themselves to protect the manufacturing industry because a majority of the electoral seats in this country are situated in manufacturing dependant economies, what have they done to encourage/aid western Canada's resource based economies? Nothing. Instead, they have made it more difficult for the western resource based economies to compete on the global market.
i'm not trying to justify anything the government does, i'm just saying i'm proud to be canadian. sure i dont agree with half the the things the government does, but if you think about it, it has to please the majority, that's what democracy. sure it sucks, but just think if you happen to be in the marjority on some other issue. |
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