| SilverNeonRacer |
I run silverstars in the wife's car, seem a little better than stock halogens, but GE has their bulb to compete with them the night hawk or whatever.
Price they seem to be about the same cost per bulb.
My question is which is better.
I have some wannabe HID bulbs now that where good, now they suck. Stock wattage, but the still run to hot, one bulb actually started to bubble, like the tip started to melt and droop. They came with my conversion kits so, I figured hey why buy new if these'll work. Hense why I don't wanna go with wannabes.
And PIAA... well I have some PIAA 3157 bulbs that melted a socket so I ain't touching that brand.
Thanks |
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| GTS Jeff |
| They both suck because of the blue coating...get Sylvania XtraVisions. |
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| Ravendarat |
| When using these types of bulbs one thing people seem to over look is the wiring involved. If you are gonna be putting these bulbs in then you should be adding 30 amp SPDT relays and upgrade the wiring if the vehicle is older. Things like this get over looked and cause big issues later down the road like what the original poster listed. |
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| EK9Hatch |
The NightHawks are a lot less blueish in color than the silverstars. I have them right now and think they were pretty much a waste of money. Pay the extra $50 and get some good PIAA's or Catz. I had a pair of Catz last year...those were so nice.
~Jamie~ |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
FYI there aer 2 versions of silverstars, the ones witht he blue coating and the ones without.. the ones Ihave in my wife's car don't have the blue coating. Compared to stock bulbs in her car they are just slightly less yellow, but do light up the road better.
BTW a bulb with a blue coating is illegal, yet somehow the blue coated silverstars are legal...
I can see adding relay and heavier wiring for 100W halogen and cheap wannabe hids, but sylverstars? they meet DOT and SAE standards.
As I said I've had a PIAA 3157 bulb melt a socket, not the wiring, but the plastic socket, so I'm not using PIAA.
quote:
Q) What’s the difference between European and North American SilverStar?
A) The Sylvania North American SilverStar bulbs have a high tech amethyst blue coating to help give the whiter light appearance. The European SilverStar does not have a coating for the whiter light, making it more like the SYLVANIA (US) XtraVision product line. Both bulbs offer greater luminance (increased brightness).
Wierd... I guess I have the european silverstars then eh in the wife's car heh
Ohh and they don't make the XtraVisions in H4. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
I can see adding relay and heavier wiring for 100W halogen and cheap wannabe hids, but sylverstars? they meet DOT and SAE standards.
Actually, if a light bulb has a higher wattage and the ground wire of the lights is worn and tired, than that can definatly cause the socket to heat up and melt due to a poor circuit caused by a poor ground. Im not saying this happened in your case for sure, but its the reason why I said the wiring should always be checked over and usually replaced when adding higher wattage bulbs. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
Actually, if a light bulb has a higher wattage and the ground wire of the lights is worn and tired, than that can definatly cause the socket to heat up and melt due to a poor circuit caused by a poor ground. Im not saying this happened in your case for sure, but its the reason why I said the wiring should always be checked over and usually replaced when adding higher wattage bulbs.
I always use the same wattage bulb, and the PIAA's where in a 02 car, that had run stock 4157NAK's til last summer, then I put the PIAA's in.
I do see where your coming from, my other 02 neon had some electical probs up front, after an accident I was chewing through signal bulbs monthly, and either or stock 4157NAKs or the Tucan ultra whites both cause the socket to turn brown. |
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| Ravendarat |
| By the way you were talking I figured you were using a newer car which is why I said it might not apply to you. However even new wire can have issues and conectors can still break, hence the advice of at least checking over all the wiring ahead of time, not to mention that if I have a socket melt, then Im DEFINATLY gonna check the wire all the way through because even if the bulb cause the issue, which is likely in your case, its still possible the wire could have been damaged along the line due to to much current being drawn through the line. And in your case thats definatly what happened, the bulb drew far to much current. |
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| newtuner |
I dont know about you guys, but after reading this I don't know if any of them are any good. To sum it up for you guys. It says that aftermarket lights do give off whiter light then OME. The thing is they don't offer consistent performance advantage over OEM bulbs. They go on to say that the biggest factors are the lens and reflector, which are unchanged with just swapping out bulbs. Looks like the only real way to get better light is to swap out your whole headlight and put in a HID system or something like that.
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
By the way you were talking I figured you were using a newer car which is why I said it might not apply to you. However even new wire can have issues and conectors can still break, hence the advice of at least checking over all the wiring ahead of time, not to mention that if I have a socket melt, then Im DEFINATLY gonna check the wire all the way through because even if the bulb cause the issue, which is likely in your case, its still possible the wire could have been damaged along the line due to to much current being drawn through the line. And in your case thats definatly what happened, the bulb drew far to much current.
Which is the funny part, cause it shouldn't have. I'm like 95% they are stock wattage, Sylvania doesn't list the wattages on their site... |
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| GTS Jeff |
Sigh ok, SilverNeonRacer, you're getting a lot of conflicting information here in this thread (and all over the internet) and I think you'll need to just decide on your own who is worth listening to. I've done ridiculous amounts of research on this stuff so here's a bit of a crash course:
1. Any coated bulb is crap. The coating robs light. This is why Silverstars (the US ones) perform at best, as good as stock, but sometimes worse. Silverstars overdrive their filaments like mad to compensate for the blue coating which is why they have such a crappy lifespan.
2. Euro Silverstars are called Osram Silverstars and are not available for purchase here.
3. When buying clear glass, stock wattage bulbs, you have three basic choices:
a. OEM
b. +30% bulbs - these have a mixture of ~30% xenon gas in the bulb which makes the bulb burn brighter and a bit whiter too. Same life as stock because the filament hasn't been messed with. Example: Sylvania XtraVision
c. +50% bulbs - these have a mixture of ~50% xenon gas in the bulb which makes the bulb burn brighter and whiter too. They're slightly whiter and brighter than +30 bulbs, but the difference isn't really noticeable. The filament is also tweaked a bit to give more light, so lifespan isn't as good as stock.Examples: Osram Silverstar, Hella +50, etc
4. Sylvania XtraVisions ARE available in H4 (I have a pair in my glove box), are dirt cheap from Superstore, $10/bulb, and are the best bang for the buck upgrade.
5. Any stock wattage bulb like the Silverstars don't need wiring upgrades like that dude was saying. Just clean your connectors with electrical contact cleaner and use some conducting grease.
6. PIAA and Catz are a ripoff and sell their name.
7. Whiter is not better. Yellow is better. That's why clear glass rocks.
Questions? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
1. Yes I realize that. I used to run the blue coated bulbs, sucks in good weather, but I did find they seemed to provide more usable light in fog, well the refraction was different so I got less glare.
2. I have a set of them 9007 bulb - they where ordered in, from where I dunno, but they are clear glass.
3. My Silverstars, the 9007s are about 2yrs, old, stockers had a shorter life like monthly.
4. Oh, their website doesn't list them in H4.
5. Thats what I thought
6. the PIAA 3157s other than they melted the socket, actually looked white, not yellow or bluish. But ya too much $$$ for what ya get
In any event I just want good bulbs as I'm tired of not being able to see while on low beam, and turning on the HIDs is just rude :P
Switching from sealed beam to diamond clear H4 conversions did make a HUGE difference. |
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| silverTEG |
email this guy http://www.danielsternlighting.com/
he knows his shit, kind of a geek actually, but he helped me, and i got some sweet lights for my wrx, night and day difference from the stockers.
i got Toshiba HIR's for the high beams, its a infrared bulb...
and low beams were Narva Rangepower+50... both amazing lighting in compaison.... |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by silverTEG
email this guy http://www.danielsternlighting.com/
he knows his shit, kind of a geek actually, but he helped me, and i got some sweet lights for my wrx, night and day difference from the stockers.
i got Toshiba HIR's for the high beams, its a infrared bulb...
and low beams were Narva Rangepower+50... both amazing lighting in compaison....
On his products page her lists these +50 bulbs - Tungsram Megalicht, Narva Rangepower+50, Osram Silverstar or Philips VisionPlus and says they're all about the same, minor differences |
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| silverTEG |
| my point was that from my oem bulbs, the ones i got are amazing in comparison. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
| ohhh ok heh. Going from "new" stock bulbs to "newish" silverstars in the wife's car made a noticable difference. |
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| GTS Jeff |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
1. Yes I realize that. I used to run the blue coated bulbs, sucks in good weather, but I did find they seemed to provide more usable light in fog, well the refraction was different so I got less glare.
2. I have a set of them 9007 bulb - they where ordered in, from where I dunno, but they are clear glass.
3. My Silverstars, the 9007s are about 2yrs, old, stockers had a shorter life like monthly.
4. Oh, their website doesn't list them in H4.
5. Thats what I thought
6. the PIAA 3157s other than they melted the socket, actually looked white, not yellow or bluish. But ya too much $$$ for what ya get
In any event I just want good bulbs as I'm tired of not being able to see while on low beam, and turning on the HIDs is just rude :P
Switching from sealed beam to diamond clear H4 conversions did make a HUGE difference.
1. Wrong! Higher frequency EM radiation, such as blue light refracts MORE, therefore causing more glare. This is why HIDs blow in wet roads and why people like using yellow fog lights. Yellow, being a longer wavelength light, refracts a lot less. In ALL cases, an uncoated bulb is always the best at lighting things up. I haven't even mentioned that human eyes don't like blue or really white light much either. It makes the pupils contract, which lets in less light.
2. Where did you get them? There are no local dealers.
3. There are no absolutes when it comes to lifespan, I'm just telling you what's common knowledge.
4. Yes, it does. H4 = HB2 = 9003. Superstore, $10/bulb...WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!??
5...
6. PIAAs are usually coated to make them look white. That's not good.
7. The noname ebay type "diamond cut" conversions usually are better than regular sealed beams, but still suck a mean dick when compared to quality H4 conversions like Hella, Narva, or Cibie. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by GTS Jeff
5. Any stock wattage bulb like the Silverstars don't need wiring upgrades like that dude was saying. Just clean your connectors with electrical contact cleaner and use some conducting grease.
Im the dude that talked about upgrading the wiring and I did state in my second post that I was refering to people using bulbs with a higher wattage rating than stock. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by GTS Jeff
1. Wrong! Higher frequency EM radiation, such as blue light refracts MORE, therefore causing more glare. This is why HIDs blow in wet roads and why people like using yellow fog lights. Yellow, being a longer wavelength light, refracts a lot less. In ALL cases, an uncoated bulb is always the best at lighting things up. I haven't even mentioned that human eyes don't like blue or really white light much either. It makes the pupils contract, which lets in less light.
2. Where did you get them? There are no local dealers.
3. There are no absolutes when it comes to lifespan, I'm just telling you what's common knowledge.
4. Yes, it does. H4 = HB2 = 9003. Superstore, $10/bulb...WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!??
5...
6. PIAAs are usually coated to make them look white. That's not good.
7. The noname ebay type "diamond cut" conversions usually are better than regular sealed beams, but still suck a mean dick when compared to quality H4 conversions like Hella, Narva, or Cibie.
1. I dunno.. I just found them better than stock bulbs in fog, every other condition they where worse.
2. Apex Modified - Travis ordered them in with my diamond clear headlights for my Neon... dunno where he got them from. Yes special order.
3....
4. I don't live in Edmonton... and nobody here has them.... I'm in on Saturady :P
5..
6. Yeah I know... so are the tucan bulbs I used, cept the PIAAs I have appear to be a blue glass, where as the tucans where a blue coating on clear glass.
7. I know.. First I had some E-bay ECE's I thought they where cheap plastic... turns out they're ceramic... but the bulbs they shipped with them where cheap, lasted a year, but ran too hot. I'm picking up some Hella ECE's on Saturday as well.
I'm trying to find a way to protect them from rocks... I can't find the silly tabs to mount plexi shields.... I think I have another idea..... I would get them coated, but it doesn't stop rock damage, just stops them from shattering. |
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| GTS Jeff |
Good, I should mention that if the bulbs aren't completely clear, they're actually still tinted or coated, which is no good at all. Anything but totally clear sucks. I guess the exception would be dichroic yellow bulbs, which are bulbs with a dichroic yellow coating that does rob some light, but gives you some nice fog light ability.
I have Hella ECE housings, relayed headlights (even if you aren't running higher wattage, relaying the wiring will send more voltage to your bulbs, making them much brighter), and right now I'm using Hella +50 bulbs.
Not THE best setup, but still far better than most headlight setups out there, including 90% of those gimmicky HID "kits." With 80/100w bulbs, I'll actually put out as many lumens too, so I'll be in OEM hid range by then heeh. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I have Hella ECE housings, relayed headlights (even if you aren't running higher wattage, relaying the wiring will send more voltage to your bulbs, making them much brighter), and right now I'm using Hella +50 bulbs.
Relays do not add voltage, the add ampreage and only if wired from a proper source. A relay in a car is still in the 12v-13.8 volt range, but can up the ampreage from as little as .04 amps up to 30 amps provided the relay has a strong power source. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
Relays do not add voltage, the add ampreage and only if wired from a proper source. A relay in a car is still in the 12v-13.8 volt range, but can up the ampreage from as little as .04 amps up to 30 amps provided the relay has a strong power source.
I think it depends on the vehicle.. I had a car that when it was running would show 13.4V at the batt and 12.x at the headlights.
I'm not gonna bother with relays right now as I have some to shut off the halogen hi's when the HIDs are on. If I can fnd clear glass silverstars I'll grab them if not I'll grab a pair of the xtra visions for my day today driving.
I'll love having 9 front end lighting configs.
Lo's
Lo with HID
Lo with HID and fogs
Lo with fogs
Hi
Hi with Hid
Hi with HID and fog
Hi with Fog
HIDs
HIDs with fogs
Fogs
Think I'll be good for almost any situation? heh |
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| Ravendarat |
| LOL, you seemed covered, and the variation of approx 1 volt shouldnt make a noticable difference, however providing them more ampreage surly will, provided they were being starved to start with. 12v and up should allow for the bulbs to work at their intended abilities. |
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| GTS Jeff |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
Relays do not add voltage, the add ampreage and only if wired from a proper source. A relay in a car is still in the 12v-13.8 volt range, but can up the ampreage from as little as .04 amps up to 30 amps provided the relay has a strong power source.
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
the variation of approx 1 volt shouldnt make a noticable difference, however providing them more ampreage surly will, provided they were being starved to start with. 12v and up should allow for the bulbs to work at their intended abilities.
I don't think you've ever actually done this before have you?
The factory wiring is like 20 ft of 16 or 18ga wiring, so there's a huge voltage drop between the battery and the lights. When you run relays, you decrease that distance to 2-5 ft AND it gives you the opportunity to use thicker wiring, thus decreasing the voltage drop, thus adding voltage to the bulb. Instead of the usual 12V, you can get over 14V at the bulbs. 2V may not sound like a lot, but the brightness of a bulb is proportional to the square of the input voltage. So a 16% increase in voltage gives a 36% increase in brightness.
:rolleyes: |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I don't think you've ever actually done this before have you?
The factory wiring is like 20 ft of 16 or 18ga wiring, so there's a huge voltage drop between the battery and the lights. When you run relays, you decrease that distance to 2-5 ft AND it gives you the opportunity to use thicker wiring, thus decreasing the voltage drop, thus adding voltage to the bulb. Instead of the usual 12V, you can get over 14V at the bulbs. 2V may not sound like a lot, but the brightness of a bulb is proportional to the square of the input voltage. So a 16% increase in voltage gives a 36% increase in brightness.
:rolleyes:
Sigh, yes I have done this before and there is more like 12 feet of wire going to the headlights on most tuner cars. Also there is very little resistance going added by a wire that is in good condition, hence my original post saying that the wire needs to be thourghly checked out to be sure of its condition. If you wanna test my "knowledge" on this its real easy. Spool off 20 feet of wire and use a DMM to check the resistance. Come on man, dont jump on me when you obviously dont know me. Im not here to fight but im not here to get ran over either. If you are having a voltage drop of more than a volt between your battery and your headlights than I suggest checking the condition of the wire as well as checking the ground in the circuit as most factory grounds tend to suck which is why its a prudent desision to upgrade the "Big 3". But the drop in voltage is not due to the gauge or length of the wire. This is the same reason that the "common rule of thumb" for grounding an amp within 3 feet is actually bullshit. You can run an amp ground 20 feet if you want so long as the point it gets to is a solid ground. That one is validated by just about every serious spl competitor on the circiut every year. Almost all of those vehicles have the grounds ran back to the battery and then have the battery grounds upgraded as well. But hey what do I know, im just a newbie right? |
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| Altezza |
| yeah because you dont have to deal with 12v on a daily basis phhht :lol: |
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| GTS Jeff |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
Sigh, yes I have done this before and there is more like 12 feet of wire going to the headlights on most tuner cars. Also there is very little resistance going added by a wire that is in good condition, hence my original post saying that the wire needs to be thourghly checked out to be sure of its condition. If you wanna test my "knowledge" on this its real easy. Spool off 20 feet of wire and use a DMM to check the resistance. Come on man, dont jump on me when you obviously dont know me. Im not here to fight but im not here to get ran over either. If you are having a voltage drop of more than a volt between your battery and your headlights than I suggest checking the condition of the wire as well as checking the ground in the circuit as most factory grounds tend to suck which is why its a prudent desision to upgrade the "Big 3". But the drop in voltage is not due to the gauge or length of the wire. This is the same reason that the "common rule of thumb" for grounding an amp within 3 feet is actually bullshit. You can run an amp ground 20 feet if you want so long as the point it gets to is a solid ground. That one is validated by just about every serious spl competitor on the circiut every year. Almost all of those vehicles have the grounds ran back to the battery and then have the battery grounds upgraded as well. But hey what do I know, im just a newbie right?
No one is trying to run you over, but here you are plainly ignoring the obvious...as I said, even a 2V difference will result in a 36% increase in light. That is a very noticeable increase in brightness! I didn't waste my time with measuring my voltage drop, but if you don't believe me, then I'll post a few links for you.
Here's a dude that noticed a 1.5V increase...
http://people.umass.edu/tcroy/articles/headlights.htm
Here's our friend Daniel Stern on relays and voltage drop.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/...ays/relays.html
Here's a guy with "over 1V less" on his Blazer..
http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/ext...light_relay.htm
Here's another guy that found 3V loss!
quote:
The highbeam current on a 65w bulb is about 5.15 amps, 2 bulbs makes 10.3amps Consider that if the *total* resistance of all the wire, connectors, headlight switch and dimmer switch is equal to only 0.3 ohms (which isn't very much!), than with 10.3 amps flowing thru the circuit you will loose 3.09 volts in the wire and switches.
http://www.tworock.com/mjd/jeep/wiring/wiring.html
Convinced yet? |
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