| twinturbo |
I just replaced the front brakes with R32 GTR calipers and rotors, and S/S lines all around. I then filled up the MC, keeping a close eye on it to make sure it never got low and let air in, and bled the brales untill clean fluid without bubbles ran out at all 4 corners. when doing the rears, there was some pressure and when I opened the bleeder valve the pressure would fade at the peddal, but the fronts never did this and I bled them ALOT!! And when I hop in the car, whether it's on or off, the peddal is DEAD. It just goes right to the floor, no resistance, and if you pump it it doesn't firm up. I took it around the block and had to stop with the E-brake as there was no pressure to the brakes.
I really need help! I can't drive it now untill it's fixed! I figured it would be an easy upgrade and it's taken me all day today!
Also, I couldn't put the master cylinder from the GTR on as I can't find an adapter to hook both my front brakes up to the single front output on it. It doesn't have another hole to hook up to so I need a 'T' or 'Y' adapter to screw both front lines into the same hole of the master cyliner. so untill I find that adapter, I am just using the stock 240sx MC.
Thanks |
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| Wheelhop |
| I honestly don't know if this will help but I believe the proper way to bleed brakes is to start from the furthest point from the MC. You finished with the furthest which may not work as well. Worth a shot good luck. |
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| twinturbo |
I just got back inside where I was bleeding all 4 corners AGAIN!! and I did it in the order sugested. However it didn't make a difference. If I slam on the brakes hard all the way to the floor I can stop the car but only the rears kick in, the fronts don't seem to be effected by the peddal, even though fluid does come out of them when they are bled. Does it make a difference what way the calipers are installed? can they be upside down? And how would I know of they are seized? not that that would really account for the dead peddal.
HELP ME!! I am going to try to get it into a shop tommorow, but saturdays aren't the best for last minute stuff like that. |
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| dc2696 |
| Did you lube up the sliders pins? (i'm drunk and can't see it being that but...) uhmm how are the lines? Maybe their balloning like crazy...zip tie the shit out of them all the way done the line about evey inch...its like stainless lines how the pedal feels that is. Uhm man thats weird it totally sounds like air in the line...are you positive u bled them right? Have you done it b4? If so then I have no clue what it could be..sorry man. |
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| dc2696 |
| Do the pads have shims that need to go behind them?? maybe... |
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| ehos |
Don't panic. You have to really bleed ALL the air out. Don't pump the pedal, that will make millions of little air bubbles that will be impossible to remove.
If you did that, then guess what, you're going to be bleeding for a LONG time if you do it manually.
Go get a power bleeder kit and use that. It will get the bubbles out.
Did you change your Master Cylinder? Did you power bleed it before you installed it??
Also, you might has stuck calipers (doubt it, but when it happens it's really not fun).
Relax, one thing at a time. |
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| Kenshin |
| from what i know, on ABS-equipped vehicles, you will have to bleed the brake corner more than once not sure procedure since it depends on vehicle but like ehos said get a power bleeder system and try that. |
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| Mustard |
also, your brakes have to bed still...
they are not getting a tight grip yet, and they won't until you drive for a bit.
I experienced the same thing when i upgraded a while back.
Little pockets of air will build in corners of the lines, only driving around going over bumps will "break them free" for you to bleed them....
Brakes are not the kind fo thing you wanna toy around with without experience...
if you'r eunsure of anything, bring them to someone who does.
Whats the worst that could happen?
you could DIE thats what! |
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| twinturbo |
| Yes, I took it for a little drive, I bled all 4 corners 3 times, NO bubbles coming out anymore, I only drove it around the block slowly so I couls stop with the e-brake. But the peddal is still dead and the fronts aren't even trying to grab, not to mention bedding, they don't budge. I am thinking it might be MS, I cleaned it before putting it on, maybe I broke some crud loose inside there and it's jamming it up or something. Very frustrating, I don't have time this weekend to fix it! |
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| dmak_el |
are the front calipers brand new? or used?
are they seized? are you sure that they fit on ur car since its not for your car?
Like another guy says if your car has abs, you can't just bleed it like normal.
one other thing i am thinking is, there is something in the way of the pads or something, so doesn't matter how hard you step on the paddle the pads can't touch the rotors.
try, jack up the car, get a friend step on the brake and see if the pads/calipers move or touch the rotors.
another thing you can try is put back the old calipers, and see if those works. |
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| ehos |
Let me repeat this for you. On a modern car, you will NEVER get all the bubbles out if you ever hit the brake pedal.
You MUST power bleed it.
Even if you didn't touch the pedal, you might still not be able to bleed it fully. Take it in, it's worth it for someone else to power bleed it. |
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| ozzmodan |
I'm just throwing this out there but the proportioning valve might close the flow to the front calipers because the rears start to gather pressure quite a bit sooner than the fronts, moreso than what with stock 240 brakes. This might cause a pressure differential therefore closing the valve.
The process I would go through is to get someone to pump up the brakes a little crack every line starting at the calipers & working up the system to see where the pressure loss is.
Kyle |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Let me repeat this for you. On a modern car, you will NEVER get all the bubbles out if you ever hit the brake pedal.
You MUST power bleed it.
Even if you didn't touch the pedal, you might still not be able to bleed it fully. Take it in, it's worth it for someone else to power bleed it.
My Neon was flushed and bled manually.. no prob, and it was an 02. But no ABS.
I need to flush the wife's car, she has 4 wheel abs, how is that diff from bleeding/flushing normally? |
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| twinturbo |
The calipers are a direct bolt on, no modifications needed, and are a very common upgrade for nissan owners. Should be no problems there.
And the problem I have right now is not just air in the lines, if it was air in the lines I would build up some pressure when i pump the pedal. However I have NO pressure.
And the front calipers aren't trying to sqeeze the pads, so I wonder if it's either seized calipers, or the master cylinder isn't sending pressure to the fronts. When I crack the bleeder valves with the pedal down in the fronts, there is very little pressure coming out. in the rears I have a little pressure, not much but more than the front.
So i am at the point that I shall be checking the master cylinder.
I could get the GTR M/S to work if I had a brake line flaring tool, can you rent those or borrow them or anything? I don't want to buy one for this one time! And I can't really take it to a shop to do it for me.
Thanks for the advice guys! If you know any good sites with good info, please pass them on too. |
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| ehos |
You can rent the brake flare kit from CT or Partsource.
Practice with some spare brake lines, it's a real pain at first to make a good 'flare.' |
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| Fish_e_o |
you bled the mc properly right???
*edit* it's different than bleeding the brakes...if you need some help today i might be able to help you... pm me.. |
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| Kyle D. |
Sorry i didant read ever single post but from your first one did you bleed the brakes your self?
If so thats your problem man, there not done right yet~!
Get a bud in the drivers seat to pump the brakes, with pressure on the brake than get some one out side to just simply crack the bleed screw for a quick seckond and than repeat making sure to alwys keep pressure in the line. .. |
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| twinturbo |
Yeah, I bled them with someone in the drivers seat.
How do you bleed the master cylinder?? I did change it, but didn't know there is a special way of bleeding it.
and I allready got the flare kit and flared the line I needed. Worked good I think.
And I swapped the front calipers, so now the nipples are on the top of the calipers, seemed like that would be the right way of doing it. And I swapped the master cylinder for the skyline one. And bled the brakes again. I have good pressure at the rear, but very little at the front. and no matter how many times we do it, I can't get good pressure at the fronts. The pistons do move now, but not far enough to clamp the rotor. I even tried sucking the fluid out the nipples with a pump, but that didn't work either. And I diconected the lines at the master cylinder and I have fluid squirting out there no-problem. I just can't figure it out. I am ready to take it to a shop, but need it done ASAP and most shops around here are booked up for as long as weeks!
Oh, and Fish_e_o unless you live in grande prairie, I don't think you can help! Thanks for the offer! |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by twinturbo
Oh, and Fish_e_o unless you live in grande prairie, I don't think you can help! Thanks for the offer!
oh too bad..
quote:
Originally posted by twinturbo
I have good pressure at the rear, but very little at the front. and no matter how many times we do it, I can't get good pressure at the fronts.
maybe you have the proportiong valves/block flipped..
quote:
Originally posted by twinturbo
How do you bleed the master cylinder?? I did change it, but didn't know there is a special way of bleeding it.
yes you are suposed to cycle the fluid through it
a good site is http://autorepair.about.com/od/brak...l/aa091804d.htm it shows the bench bleeding of the master cylinder do that and see if your problem is still there |
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| ozzmodan |
One trick to bench bleeding master cylinders that the website above didn't cover, is if you pinch the clear plastic lines they give you with the MC using pliers/vice-grips on the release portion of the stroke, it will get rid of the air WAY quicker. Otherwise, you're cycling the same air bubbles back & forth.
Kyle |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by ozzmodan
One trick to bench bleeding master cylinders that the website above didn't cover, is if you pinch the clear plastic lines they give you with the MC using pliers/vice-grips on the release portion of the stroke, it will get rid of the air WAY quicker. Otherwise, you're cycling the same air bubbles back & forth.
Kyle
good point.. it was just the first one that looked good on google..
another is to do it slowly rather than fast... i'm not 100% but it always works better for me.. i think it lets the bubbles out better.. |
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| fatbastard |
Ok, I'm guessing your car is a S13, correct? S14 will likely be the same, but whatever.
I remember many many moons ago a freind swapped 300zx brakes on his S13. Had a hell of a time bleeding the brakes, could never get the air out of them. Turned out he had them swapped side for side, meaning the bleeder screws were on the BOTTOM of the caliper, not the top. Remember, air rises. Is this the case? |
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| twinturbo |
Accually it's funny that you mention the calipers being on the wrong sides, because they were! The first time anyway, then i thought of exactly what you said........air rises, so I swapped them!
I GOT IT TO WORK!!
Thanks for the advice on bleeding the master cylinder. I think it was air locked. In the end I attached a transfer pump(like what you use to squirt oil into your diff or tranny) to the nipple on the caliper, and put a hose clamp on it to make a good seal. Then I had someone step on the pedal and hold it down, I cracked the nipple, pulled the pump lever to create a bunch of suction, closed the bleeder valve and releaved the pressure in my pump. Then I repeated 3-4 times per caliper. Once I pulled on my pump, the brake pedal finnaly fell to the floor (after swapping calipers and re-bleeding the rears, i finnaly had some pressure, but only a little) so the pedal went to the floor, meaning I was taking out some air within the lines. So I repeated untill i had some fluid coming out, and then bled normally. And it worked after that! So I figure either I had a big bubble in the calipers, or the master cylinder was airlocked and I forced fluid into the "pump" part of the MS.
Hope all these questions and answers will help out someone else in the future!
Thanks guys for all the advice, in the end some of it helped me come up with a solution! |
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| twinturbo |
quote:
Originally posted by ozzmodan
:smack:
I am not sure what you are trying to illustrate? |
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