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Who runs the most boost? - Click HERE for Original Thread

smooth

I'm running about 8psi on my 89 probe gt.

Alpha Gangsta

I ran 16 pounds on my old turbo, 15 pounds high boost on my new one and its going up as soon as I get some info from Nissan for my S-AFC

dsm4ever

In first gear at import, mine spiked to 25-26 psi, but bled off to 20psi. _I know Marcin ran 25 psi through all 4 gears <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>(Edited by dsm4ever at 5<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1 pm on Oct. 6, 2001)

mitsuman

"I know Marcin ran 25 psi through all 4 gears"Yeh..... Well, 25 psi and praying that it doesnt blow in 3rd. _Remember, 100% stock motor with regular head gasket. _C-16 certainly good for that!!! :=)(Edited by mitsuman at 5:52 pm on Oct. 6, 2001)

TurboBlueNX

Two weeks ago I was on 12 PSI, now I'm running 13 pounds of boost on the street and slowly turning it up <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Marximus

12psi, Can go higher, but too chicken.

Angelala

holly, i see a big difference in boost between the DSM's and other cars!!

TurboBlueNX

Yeah, the DSM's are a low compression turbo motor from the factory, low compression motors (typically 8.5 or lower) are very friendly to forced induction. Guys like me who run 9.0 or higher compression with stock internals have to be abit more careful when it comes to boost.

Angelala

how about those honda's then? does that mean they're not suitable for turbo? what about the audi a4? i know the 1.8t runs 7 psi stock, and if you put in that chip, it runs 9 psi. is that consider low?

TurboBlueNX

The higher end Honda's generally have a higher piston compression than your average put-put, but you can still at a turbo kit to them, just no use so much boost. I think they're limited to 10 to 12 PSI as well.The A4 Runs 7 PSI stock and PSI with the chip, but again, it probably has a low piston compression to... Anyone?.

dsm4ever

Problem with hondas internalls is that they are not made strong to hande the hp that comes with bolting on a turbo (this is my personal belief). _Also, ask fred how well a stock honda motor took to somewhat high boost? _Honda motors are not designed for turbo applications, therefore bolting one on takes a lot of knowledge and tuning and usually forged internals. _Most turbo'd cars from the factory have very strong internals (i.e dsms, Rogers high 400 Hp monster, and supras that lay down 700 rwhp on stock internals) and can take to boost well. _(Edited by dsm4ever at 6:30 pm on Oct. 10, 2001)

KillerRabbit

Boost levels are irrelevant, its the cylinder pressure that is being created by the boost that matters. I'm only building 10psi, and putting out as much hp as any other turbo cars in town.
Engines can take a ton of boost(with the right grade of gas, A/F, and timing control))... its detonation, and heat that kills an engine, not the hp begin built. It takes ALOT of power to actually break an internal component of an engine.
Honda engines love turbos, in fact they respond better to a turbo, power wise then most of the engines out there. Sams yellow crx has been running 15psi on pump gas for 2 full seasons, and hasn't shown 1 sign of stress with very hard driving.
The Only bad thing about an aftermarket turbo kit in Edmonton is finding someone who can build, and tune it.

TurboBlueNX

Yes, definitly tuning is everything. But lest we forget, the Honda block is an open deck and prone to cracking with to much power. Motors like the DSM and Nissan are solid, both can support 400HP easy. I know the stock Nissan block will blow out after 450HP and thats the non-turbo block! (the non turbo and turbo motors share the same block)Besides, didn't Sam install different pistons?, we're talking stock-stock internals here.If you can afford it, many kits come complete, but like Cya says, mail order tuning isn't the greatest.

Loose

Yes Mr. Bunny pants, but you have to remember that cylinder pressure is relative to boost pressure. Also, and more importantly, a superheated high pressure intake mixutere is much more prone to detonation. Detonation creates higher cylinder pressures, greatly increases cylinder temps, and thus allows a lot more heat transfer. It is this heat tranfer that kills the engines, more than the pressures. The reason why your car makes so much power at low boost is because it is a big block <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>Honda's are inherently flawed when it comes to aftermarket turbo applications mostly because of the open deck blocks, high compression ratios, and aluminum components. On the positive side, superb volumetric efficiency of most honda engines allows them to produce enormous power at lower boost levels. Please don't compare the DSM guy's high boost pressure to stock cars, or even Andy's Nissan which all run pump gas. They have to run lower boost pressure on pump gas, like 20 psi <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> BTW, I run 11psi on the rotary, when it works <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

Loose

Ah, I see Andy beat me to it...

mitsuman

I agree with the killer rabbit dude!. The goal to building a very good turbo motor (whether or not factory turboed) is to achieve high cylinder pressure with out detonation. 9 times out of 10, detonation or pre-ignition is what kills the motor. Right now I�m running 7.6:1 compression in my stock motor. I�m increasing this compression to 8.5:1 next year. In light of this compression increase, I will also try to increase the efficiency of the head, intercooling and minimize heat soak as well us many other mods. With these changes, theoretically, I should be able to lower boost to about 20 psi and obtain same amount of power. Everything is still on the drawing board and will not know until next year.

KillerRabbit

turboBlueNx quote:
Motors like the DSM and Nissan are solid, both can support 400HP easy. I know the stock Nissan block will blow out after 450HP and thats the non-turbo block! (the non turbo and turbo motors share the same block) vw vr6 block can withstand 1000+hp <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>Loose quote:
Honda's are inherently flawed when it comes to aftermarket turbo applications mostly because of the open deck blocks, high compression ratios, and aluminum components.Close the deck, lower the compression, and wammo 500hp here I come. Volumetric efficiency is right, in fact.... the best power per CI in the world.
You are right, Heat is responsible for MOST engine damage.
It looks like I might be doing a new turbo Honda this winter, we'll see how much power one can put out....
ps. Might have to add it to the 5 imports in the 11's <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
(Edited by KillerRabbit at 6:42 pm on Oct. 11, 2001)

dsm4ever

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from mitsuman on 9:54 pm on Oct. 10, 2001
Right now I�m running 7.6:1 compression in my stock motor.
[/b][/quote]Tisk Tisk marcin, all that knowledge and you dont even know that our compression ratio is 7.8:1 <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>Oh, im just a anti-honda believer until i see a fast one run here in edmonton. I hope somebody can build and tune one, because i would like to see it whoop on the v8s.

Loose

"Oh, im just a anti-honda believer until i see a fast one run here in edmonton. _"Were you not in Calgary with me a month ago??? _For those of you that didn't know, there is a 12.6 turbo Prelude in Calgary. _It was really fast, and would go low 12's here easily (faster than any import here has gone). _I particularily enjoyed watching you piss the owner off by saying, "Wow, I am *acutally* impressed". _ROFLI also think that Sam's CRX is impressive considering that it runs the relatively crappy low displacement SOHC motor. _I makes good power for what it has.What I want to see in Edmonton next year is a fast Subaru, that'd be cool.OK, I'm gonna throw in some more technical BS:Turbo charging an engine does not greatly increase the peak cylinder pressure as compared to it's naturally aspirated configuration. _Thus, engines rarely fail because of making too much power.Words I live by: _Power doesn't break motors, RPM and tunning breaks motors.Anybody wanna start a debate? <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>(Edited by Loose at 10:41 pm on Oct. 11, 2001)

dsm4ever

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 10:39 pm on Oct. 11, 2001
"Oh, im just a anti-honda believer until i see a fast one run here in edmonton. _"Words I live by: _Power doesn't break motors, RPM and tunning breaks motors.Anybody wanna start a debate? <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>(Edited by Loose at 10:41 pm on Oct. 11, 2001)That honda was very impressive actually. It had A LOT of cash into it, somebody was saying 10,000 in the motor alone, man i wish i was 20 years old like him and was a drug dealer <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>I have to agree with you loose, bad tuning breaks motor. Look at vr6rabbits car compared to Pauls car. One has a motor, one doesnt <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
[/b][/quote]

TurboBlueNX

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 9:50 pm on Oct. 10, 2001
Honda's are inherently flawed when it comes to aftermarket turbo applications mostly because of the open deck blocks, high compression ratios, and aluminum components. _On the positive side, superb volumetric efficiency of most honda engines allows them to produce enormous power at lower boost levels. _
[/b][/quote]
Yep, too bad they can't generate a whole lot of torque. Personally, I find a motor with more torque much more fun and satisfying to drive.
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 9:50 pm on Oct. 10, 2001
Please don't compare the DSM guy's high boost pressure to stock cars, or even Andy's Nissan which all run pump gas. _They have to run lower boost pressure on pump gas, like 20 psi <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> _
[/b][/quote]Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not like I *want* to run pump gas, it's what I can *afford* <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>You have no idea how much I want to see what the "purple babe" can do on C16... perhaps we can do that groupd deal on barrels of race gas huhuhuhuhuh? <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> We'll just store them in Marks Garage, I'm sure he won't mind...<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 9:50 pm on Oct. 10, 2001
BTW, I run 11psi on the rotary, when it works <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
[/b][/quote]I'm sitting at just below 13 psi, I'm going to try and creep it up abit more when I get my pressure gauge repaired next week along with another exhaust leak <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

CYA

andy... find a tuner and crank that boost up... no more slowly creeping up with the boost. <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> just make sure you get a wideband o2 on it. sports car products in calgary has one. if you're able to slowly creep up without changes in your maps then why not go there and just turn it up without all the guessing? probably save money cause you'll use less gas! hahah.cya

This will get ya going
What is more important: Boost or Flow??
Did you know that a stock Talon head(including cams) sucks so bad that at 25 psi your only getting 600 CFM
through it. At 30 psi your getting only 625 CFM.
They are so plugged that if you had a turbo that was 900CFM at 14.7 psi you would only be feeding the engine 600 CFM at 25 psi.
Sounds wierd eh!
Now get this:
If you take a talon Running a stock head and intake(everything) and run it at 30psi you will flow 625 CFM to the engine.
BUT if you put a full race head and intake on the same set up and leave your duty cycle the same on the boost controler you will get 850 CFM into the engine at 20 psi.
Now you have more power at lower boost and less heat and pre-ignition.
This now allows you to crank it to 30PSI and get way more power with great effeciency.Are you following that boost means shit and all it does is make heat if the flow is backed up.Thats why prepped engines run lower boost and same power as a high boost stock engine.I got all this from the guy that is building my head and sheet intake.(same guy that builds them for turbo trix , FP , and pruven motorsports-all 9.9 - 10.03 cars)Marcins and I only have one advantage right now with the Garretts-When our flow is backing up and causing boost its cooler than a small turbo at _same boost.Did I open a can or does everyone agree.

smooth

I would say even more important is the density of the intake charge. Who cares if you get 30psi and 900CFM if all it is hot air from an inefficient turbo?

That's why a good proper sized turbo is the key with a good flowing top end (Takes less pressure to flow same amount of air)
Then you have more to play with!

Loose

Gee, for once I agree with you Private.So what's the big bottle neck on the Talons? I'm guessing on the 1G's it's the Cams, and on the 2G's it's the head (ports, not valves). How far can a Talon go on Stock IC piping? You guys seem to change that quickly, but maybe that's cause it's cheap.Speaking of flow and cams.. did you know that many of the 10 second honda's were running stock cams? I'm sure that now most of the quick class racers have aftermarket cams, since they do EVERYTHING to their cars, but once upon a time you could be competitive, and still have stock cams (VTEC of course).

reno

Sizing of turbo will really be a personal preference. Personally I wouldn't want an overly large turbo. Sure your ET and MPH might be really nice, but as you get bigger, more lag.I personally prefer a quicker spooling smaller turbo. Great for city driving and still a threat on the autox and strip.

CYA

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Private on 6:53 pm on Oct. 15, 2001
Did I open a can or does everyone agree.
[/b][/quote]agree... that's why i didn't bother saying (until now _<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> ) that i run an non-intercooled 11psi on esso gas with radials but am going 122-123mph through the traps in a 3450lbs car. _(in an untuned state). _<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>cya(Edited by CYA at 7:23 am on Oct. 16, 2001)

I see what your saying about the cams but our cams have little over lap to prevent boost cylinder transfering.
Non turbo cars come with better cams because they don't have a power adder and if you can get them to work they are a up grade for a turbo car.Now I keep hereing all you guys talk about how your cars do so well on low boost.
Thats because your compression was designed to make good power all alone and when you add a turbo at low boost it really makes a difference.
But in the end your stock non turbo blocks won't handle turning it up to 20-30 psi (in most cases) Right Blue NX.
Thats why my race engine in the works has 10:1 Ross pistons , Pauter Rods and Metal gaskets. The Talon Block and crank have never been a weak link so I'll be fine their.
The results I'm looking for will be power at low boost and great spool up from the compression so I can keep my big hair dryer on the car.
When I put C-16 in the car It should make over 600 HP at the wheels. I've got about 491 at the crank now on the stock block.
So now i'll be in your boat on low boost but will be able
to go crazy on high boost when you wouldn't want to with a non turbo engine with a bolt on hair dryer.Said without predjudice

Smooth
1st gen heads flow way more that 2nd gen
1st gen cams have more lift than 2nd gen
1st gen intakes have more flow that 2nd genWe take a first gen top end and port it , cut the guides , over size vavles cut on back and radius the back of the valve seats to blend into the port(no bump).
These heads make all the world for us , like i was saying
on previus posts.
Ww put high lift cams in with good duration but try to keep away from over lap to prevent cylinder boost transfer.By the way you guys with second gen cars can use 1st gen cams as a up grade.

CYA

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Private on 10<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>1 am on Oct. 16, 2001
Now I keep hereing all you guys talk about how your cars do so well on low boost.
Thats because your compression was designed to make good power all alone and when you add a turbo at low boost it really makes a difference.[/b][/quote]not sure if i'm included in here but i shouldn't be. i run a low compression motor. <img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>cya

Loose

CYA, you make so much power at low boost because of displacement!

CYA

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Loose on 11<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3 am on Oct. 16, 2001
CYA, you make so much power at low boost because of displacement![/b][/quote]<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

I'm running 7.8:1 now so I think 10:1
should give good spool up , 15 psi on street Gas
should give me same power I'm getting on C16 at 25
PSI now.(please read my CFM VS PSI post)
I really don't care about street power now that I'm a Dad and don't Street Race anymore so I got a better chance of getting home to my daughter and wife.
I'm saving it for the track (to many close calls last year , changing my ways)Besides no matter how well you do at the dump its still that piece of paper from the park that backs your words.

CYA

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Private on 11:18 am on Oct. 16, 2001
now that I'm a Dad and don't Street Race anymore so I got a better chance of getting home to my daughter and wife.[/b][/quote]i agree... with cars that have power like ours you gotta respect it. _it's just too dangerous to street race with beasts like that. _i mean when you're at 200kms/hr and your speedo is still sweeping faster than most people's tachs it's too wild. _but that's just my own opinion. _although if the conditions are right... i think i'd still consider it once in a blue moon. _<img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>cya(Edited by CYA at 11:27 am on Oct. 16, 2001)

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