| turbo and superchargers - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| bendn |
| turbos and superchargers i just dont understand the differences and whats the better way to go? pros and cons? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
Umm I hear super is better for lower Rpms, and it's linier boost, turbo is better for high revving applications, and in the end can give more power. Also Turbo with boost controllers can be adjusted on the fly so to speak, Super you'd most likely need to change pulleys....
But the other boost heads will say more.... |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by bendn
turbos and superchargers i just dont understand the differences and whats the better way to go? pros and cons?
Hi Bendn,
Great question. There is alot of information surrounding both items in question.
Superchargers and Turbo chargers accomplish the same end result. This end result is force fed induction and compression of air from your intake system into your intake chamber. This increases the amount of air to fuel in your combustion chamber, thus creating a more powerfull combustion hence more power.
The main diference between the two is a supercharger is belt driven. The belt is run off your crank pulley. The more your crank spins, the more air is compressed and force fed into your intake.
The turbo charger is air driven. More specificially exhaust gas driven. Your exhaust gas will pass through the manifold and spin the exhaust turbine. The intake turbine will also spin at the same time forcing more air into your combusion chamber.
Superchargers and turbo chargers have upsides and limitations.
Superchargers are always on. Your power is there when you want it and there is no delay. This is nice if you are going to a drag strip and hamering the throttle hoping to win a pink slip or two. :lol:
The down side is that you will consume alot more fuel as the ECU will compensate for the increased A/F Ratio and try to dump more fuel into your engine.
To change the boost levels on a supercharger requires changing the pulley size. Different sizes will give you more or less boost.
Turbo chargers are always spinning too, however they really start to produce positive boost around 2500 to 3000 RPM. Thus you can control the amount of power and fuel used.
The down side to a turbocharger is that you will always have what is called boost lag. Boost lag occours when you jump on the loud pedal and the car takes off, but while the car is taking off there is a delay while the turbo spins fast enough to create positive boost. When the boost kicks in, you will feel it.
Controlling boost in a turbo charged vehicle is easy to do. One can purchase Electronic or Variable boost controllers which will allow the driver to adjust, or play with boost levels from inside the car. This is not reccomended while driving.
As for the reccomendation of Turbo VS Supercharger, I can not reccomend one for you. It all depends on what you want to do with your vehicle. Do you want instant power now and have to mess with pullies for boost levels, or is delayed power fine but you can just hit a few buttons or turn a knob for more power. That is your call.
Hope this helps,
Mike Nikolai |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by bendn
turbos and superchargers i just dont understand the differences and whats the better way to go? pros and cons?
Superchargers are a belt-driven setup, so they give you instant power.
Turbochargers have to spool up through the exhaust, so the power is not instant, and the power it generates is greater the higher you rev.
Both are forced induction, which means they pressurized the air before it goes into the engine. It's just basically the method they use to pressurize that's different. |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by bendn
turbos and superchargers i just dont understand the differences and whats the better way to go? pros and cons?
How Stuff Works :thumbup: |
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| bendn |
| in a supercharger how much more fuel are we talking about here? |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by bendn
in a supercharger how much more fuel are we talking about here?
If you are worried about gas mileage you should buy a smart car. |
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| bendn |
| mom already did haha |
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| bigmack000 |
| been posted already so go to how stuff works |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by bendn
in a supercharger how much more fuel are we talking about here?
Hi bendn,
The fuel usage all depends on:
A) Your driving habits
B) The amount of PSI you are pushing. More PSI = more fun + More fuel consumed.
If you drive like a respectable person then there will be an slight to somewhat noticable increase in fuel consumption. If you like to see how far down your fuel pedal can go at each set of lights, then you will use alot more. :D
I do not have any statistical data to back that up but it is a faily good generalization.
Mike Nikolai |
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| bendn |
| haha ok sounds like jackson racing will be the next puchase thanks alot |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by bendn
haha ok sounds like jackson racing will be the next puchase thanks alot
On a fwd vehicle I would recommend a centrifugal supercharger, you don't need all the torque down low, you need it in the higher rpms. |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| fuel is not a huge issue. you will use more fuel no matter what FI system you use. with proper tuning you will see almost no difference in gas mileage.. i get about 500-550 per tank with my jackson charger and thats just a little under the average of about 600 for a stock lude. it all depends on how you drive. |
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| car |
^^agreed.
Proper tune and you wont see that much of a mileage difference as long as you are driving properly.
One thing i would disagree is the use of the "turbo lag" term, a small turbo spooling at 2500-3000 rpm is not laggy at all. It is a very easy access range, hence u wont lose any significant amount of flow between shifts or at the start up. Turbo lag really matters and comes into play when you are going much bigger turbos and start spooling around 5-6k range. There is no way of fixing the turbo lag at the start up but with a bigger external wastegate, you can really help the bigger turbos keep flowing.
no disrespect, I dont mean no harm. |
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| Neo-Blue99GASE |
| Id watch out on how you want you powerband. Giving boost at low rpms to a civic HB will likely liquidate your tires if you dont increase the size of them as im assuming they are something like 195's. Having 200 WHP at that size means doom to tires like that. On the other hand, the added torque it gives you is quite nice considering that most imports like to rev high, but dont usually have all that torque, especially at low rpms, which would make it much better for a daily driver. |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by car
^^agreed.
Proper tune and you wont see that much of a mileage difference as long as you are driving properly.
One thing i would disagree is the use of the "turbo lag" term, a small turbo spooling at 2500-3000 rpm is not laggy at all. It is a very easy access range, hence u wont lose any significant amount of flow between shifts or at the start up. Turbo lag really matters and comes into play when you are going much bigger turbos and start spooling around 5-6k range. There is no way of fixing the turbo lag at the start up but with a bigger external wastegate, you can really help the bigger turbos keep flowing.
no disrespect, I dont mean no harm.
Hi car,
Yes, you are 100% correct. I neglected to mention as to what size turbo I was referring to. Nice to see someone reads my posts. :lol:
No offence taken! Nice catch! :thumbup:
Mike Nikolai |
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| Adam |
I'd have to disagree with the mileage statements made.
My car is properly tuned to an 11 - 12 afr throughout the band and my mileage is crap.
What should have been added was that if you have turbo A, say a t3, that flows less than 30 lbs of air/min youre mileage will more than likely change somewhat but not much....But if you have Turbo B, say a 60trim t3/t04E, that flows alot more air at the same amount of boost as turbo A your mileage will go down significantly...as is my case.
not saying the others are wrong but mileage does depend on what kind of turbo/charger you use and the fuel needed to support the air that the unit flows as well as the amount boost put into the engine.
.02 |
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| 92_WhItE_H23 |
| this is what i was saying. all i was trying to get across was that if you go FI it doesnt necessarily mean your mileage will for sure be crap because thats false..it all depends on your setup and your tune. as i said, with my charger and tune i lose almost no gasmileage. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
I twas wondering... if I ever boost my V8, it'll be a supercharger....
Anybody hear of a clutch style pully for them.. kinda like the Mad Max blower idea, or along the lines of how an A/C clutch works? |
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| SketchifisT |
Hopefully the guy who posted reads. If you are plannin on doin this to a civic / honda engine i would vote against it. Ive seen decent setups at the same time ive seen weak / slower setups.
turbo for a honda engine is more so where you will be rewarded. Proper tunin gets about 20whp per pound of boost so you can safely jump around with 8psi getting about 160whp extra... Best setup ive seen so far for a honda was a b18c1 with a vortech supercharger at 6psi giving 100whp.
It all depends on your drivin but i still vote turbo. Turbo lag is getting negated with smaller turbos and so forth. You have other options with superchargers but still the turbo is the better option. GT28R garrett is a great one or just run a t3/t4 either way civic is high revin so not havin huge power down low doesn't change anything , you have more then enough to get rollin and dependin on your tranny and setup turbo lag is very small.
I have been apart of both turbo'd and s/c honda motors so if its about your crx and you want more answers just PM me |
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| bendn |
| im looking to do it on my 98 teg but all the turbo kits are so expencive i don kno |
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| omniman69 |
i have owned a few turbos cars, and the size of turbo does matter some, i owned a subaru xt and the turbo peaked at 7psi, but my '90 lebaron gtc has the garrett vnt turbo(variable nozzle turbo) and it will push up to 17 psi max. Now the ar48 garrett on my 88shelby z daytona will push upwards of 20+psi with proper cal. and a new map sensor.
Tuning plays a very large role in the amount of power u can/want to make
just my 2 cents.
mike |
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| sparkycivic |
id have to say that it actually doesn't matter all that much which way you go... because any boost will be fun to drive! hearing those cool new sounds that the car didnt make before, having that passing-power on the highway, and just knowing that it's yours, and different from most of the other cars - that feels real good.
even if you don't like something about the way it drives, then just change the component for a different one - that's much easier to do once you already have the car set-up for boost. |
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| GT34 |
In the long run you'll get more hp out of a turbo application than an SC when you spend around the same amount of money. You can get the same hp numbers from both but the aticipation of the spool from the turbo makes it feel faster when it kicks in.
I got that from a magazine that turbocharged and supercharged a scion tc. They said you could feel the greatest difference in the turbo ap than the SC. But what it really comes down to is if you like the sound of the SC whine, or the high pitched spool and bov from the turbo.:mad: |
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| sparkycivic |
| for the ghetto-tuner: there's hardly ever any used superchargers out there... but there's fucking used turbos in every wrecking yard!!!:D :D :D |
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