| Need help. OBD II Codes 0181, 7E5, 58A - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| GOT BOOST |
Hi Everyone,
I have run into a situation that requires someone with Ford Expertise.
I have a friend that has a 2001 Mustang GT. The list of mods are as follows.
1) WMS Intake
2) Accufab Throttlebody
3) Bassanni X pipes mated to a flowmaster 40 series exhaust. Second cat removed and replaced with high flow cat.
4) Steeda Underdrive Pulley
5) Steeda Mil Eliminators to trick the rear O2 Sensors.
One day after installing the Exhaust the Service Engine Soon (SES) Light came on. The SES light would come on, then come off, then it would stay on. Thinking it was the rear 02 Sensors we ordered up the MIL Eliminators as some people who have an X pipe set up have encountered this before. This should have cleared the problem. After a quick install and dissconnecting the battery to reset the codes, we fired up the car and the light came back on.
This has been happening for a few weeks.
Now with a great thanks to Sparkycivic who read the codes for us, the OBDII reader came up with the following codes:
0181 P0181 Fuel Temperature Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance
7E5
58A
Do any of you ford guys have a clue about this. Before we replace the fuel temperature Sensor, could this have been a direct cause of the exhaust install, or just a time and chance.
Also 7E5 and 58A (Yes, these were read by an OBDII)
We have searched the net, found a few posts somewhere else but there was no usefull information about them. They were posted about a year ago.
My question is, would replacing the Fuel temperature Sensor A Circuit cure the problem, or is this just a result of the exhaust install and I will get the same code after. Anyone have any problems with this? Would any of his intake, exhaust mods cause the fuel temp sensor to code? I do not think so as I have never heard of this, but just want to make sure.
Also anyone know anything about a 7E5 and 58A. We searched but found nothing.
Thanks in advance,
Mike Nikolai |
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| Mekanik22 |
First off, you can't clear OBD 2 codes by disconnecting the battery, you need a scanner. Secondly, after messing around with 02 sensors, you have a direct effect on the fuel system and the computer pretty much. So, if you didn't hit the sensor or anything like that, it's the exhaust sytem that did it.
How DID you "trick" the 02 sensor? It's not just hanging out in open air, is it?
EDIT: I'll look up those codes for you when I go into the shop later today probably. |
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| icydude |
you dont need the reader to clear the codes usually you can jump the plug with a paper clip a certain way for pull a fuse.
thats how acura does it anyways:dunno: |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by Mekanik22
First off, you can't clear OBD 2 codes by disconnecting the battery, you need a scanner. Secondly, after messing around with 02 sensors, you have a direct effect on the fuel system and the computer pretty much. So, if you didn't hit the sensor or anything like that, it's the exhaust sytem that did it.
How DID you "trick" the 02 sensor? It's not just hanging out in open air, is it?
EDIT: I'll look up those codes for you when I go into the shop later today probably.
Hi Mekanik22,
We installed the rear 02 Sensors back into the original position. Thinking we were fine, but knew the possibility of the rear O2 sensor coding. When it coded a day later we ordered up the Steeda MIL Eliminators. Please see link below
http://www.steeda.com/products/ As taken directly from the web site "MIL eliminators prevent signals from the rear O2 sensors from unnecessarily triggering the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL), commonly known as the "check engine" light, on 96 & up Mustangs equipped with off-road exhaust systems. The MIL eliminators leave the "check engine" light fully operational for all other functions, so the engine management processor can still send a warning signal if more serious engine problems develop. MIL eliminators are intended for off-road use only."
We would not be crazy enough to let the rear 02 sensor hang on its own in the open, Hence point #5 in my post.
We thought too that the code would lets us know it was the rear O2 sensors. That is what we were expecting. But to have the P0181 Fuel Temperature Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance. This was unusual and unexpected as it appears to not be related to the rear O2 Sensors. I guess best thing it to replace the Fuel temp sensor and see if it happens again. Perhaps it was coincidence it occoured at the same time we installed the exhaust.
Icydude,
Interesting point to clear the codes. Normally by disconnecting the battery, waiting 30 min then reconnecting and starting the car up, the car will run with out the SES light for sometimes 10 min before it lights up again.
This issue is most perplexing. I am interested to see if anyone who has the same mods on that car has run into that issue before, or if it is some random freak of nature it happened to fail at that moment.
Car still runs fine.
I am just trying to get to the bottom of this to see if there is a way to clear the code or to eliminate it from coming on again before we purchase a new Fuel Temp sensor.
Mike Nikolai |
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| sparkycivic |
| the code reader was the CReader generic OBDII made by launch. |
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| Fish_e_o |
quote:
Originally posted by sparkycivic
the code reader was the CReader generic OBDII made by launch.
i've got the same one it says that a 58 is heater control circuit high but no 58A...
but they put those codes in there so ford can still make money.. only ford knows those ones... just like what dodge does.. bastards...:mad: |
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| Mekanik22 |
quote:
Originally posted by GOT BOOST
Hi Mekanik22,
Interesting point to clear the codes. Normally by disconnecting the battery, waiting 30 min then reconnecting and starting the car up, the car will run with out the SES light for sometimes 10 min before it lights up again.
This issue is most perplexing. I am interested to see if anyone who has the same mods on that car has run into that issue before, or if it is some random freak of nature it happened to fail at that moment.
Car still runs fine.
I am just trying to get to the bottom of this to see if there is a way to clear the code or to eliminate it from coming on again before we purchase a new Fuel Temp sensor.
Mike Nikolai
The only reason it's going off for that long and coming back on, is because it's in "open loop" for that long. Which means the 02 sensor is sending it's reading to the ECM but the ECM is ignoring it. As soon as it hits "closed loop" the ECM takes in the 02 sensor reading and adjusts the A/F as required. From what I read, is those eliminators basically blocks the signal unless a serious problem is occuring/about to occur. Some 02 manufacturers give their 02 sensor reference voltages to make sure there isn't an open or grounded circuit. If the signal can't get through, it'll think there is an open and turn the light on as soon as it hits closed loop. |
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| theboss |
What those blockers (aka simple resistor), do is change the signal back to a readable voltage back to the ecm. when you open your exhaust up from stock, the o2 will read a higher and more drastic sine wave pattern than it would normally. By installing a resistor in the return wire going back to the ecm from the o2, you are simply causing the wave pattern to be smaller and appear more "normal" to the ecm. I've seen codes thrown for aftermarket exhausts, but its typically a "o2 voltage/signal out of range" or something along those lines. You should get a mechanic to scan your obd2 with a proper scanner and not some crappy walmart one. I've never even seen codes of that type before, and I've seen a crap load of them. Its no wonder its so hard to tell what all is wrong with it. If your still having headaches with it, let me know and I'd be glad to try to help you out.
- Curt
P.S - Just thought I'd add, that yes... disconnecting your battery does clear codes from the ecm, tcm, and anything else that may be stored. |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by theboss
What those blockers (aka simple resistor), do is change the signal back to a readable voltage back to the ecm. when you open your exhaust up from stock, the o2 will read a higher and more drastic sine wave pattern than it would normally. By installing a resistor in the return wire going back to the ecm from the o2, you are simply causing the wave pattern to be smaller and appear more "normal" to the ecm. I've seen codes thrown for aftermarket exhausts, but its typically a "o2 voltage/signal out of range" or something along those lines. You should get a mechanic to scan your obd2 with a proper scanner and not some crappy walmart one. I've never even seen codes of that type before, and I've seen a crap load of them. Its no wonder its so hard to tell what all is wrong with it. If your still having headaches with it, let me know and I'd be glad to try to help you out.
- Curt
P.S - Just thought I'd add, that yes... disconnecting your battery does clear codes from the ecm, tcm, and anything else that may be stored.
Hi Curt,
Thanks for the reply. I had expeced the rear O2 sensors to throw a code upon install for the same reason you mentioned above. However upon some research on the Steeeda MIL Eliminators, there seems to be a very large amount of the MIL Eliminators produced that are defective. However Steeda wants to make sure that the eliminators are defective before they exchange them. Ie) The code read
However upon having Sparkycivic read the code (and many thanks for your time again), the code read was showing the fuel temp sensor. Now it could be that the reader sparkycivic was using was not compatable with the 2001 Mustang GT codes and may have thrown us for a loop. My friend ordered an OBDII code reader this past week. He should have it by now but I have not heard from him to see if it is still giving him the same code or showing the rear O2 Sensors as the issue.
I am interested to see if it is the rear O2 Sensors giving the light. I told my friend that he should just put some electrical tape over the light and ignore it if it bugs him so much. :lol:
Fish_e_o and Mekanik22,
Interesting finds. I suspect that perhaps the code reader sparky civic used maybe giving us false readings. We will know once the new OBDII reader comes in. I plan to purchase one for myself and carry it with me. Just incase I get the Check engine light in my Avalon. I have watched it flash twice since I purchased the car, but has never come on again. It was on for less than a second. :D
At any rate I will post what I find out. That way should some one else in the future, come accross the same issue, then the can search the world wide web and come accross this usefull thread. :D
Mike Nikolai |
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| HokieEtown |
Hey,
The CEL code P0181 (followed by the same other wierd codes)came up right after install of a Trubendz Dual SS Borla exhaust on my 2001 Mercury Cougar. Sounds similar to your situation. Was wondering if you guys ever came up with a fix.
Thanks in advance. |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by HokieEtown
Hey,
The CEL code P0181 (followed by the same other wierd codes)came up right after install of a Trubendz Dual SS Borla exhaust on my 2001 Mercury Cougar. Sounds similar to your situation. Was wondering if you guys ever came up with a fix.
Thanks in advance.
Hi HokieEtown,
As for the results here is what we found. My friend did order up an OBDII code reader. The code came out as the passanger side front 02 sensor. Sorry, I do not recall the exact code.
As it turns out, there are a few older versions of OBDII Code readers. The one that read the code originally was an older version. For some reason it was not compatable. After a brief and very time constrained attempt at removing it on a hot engine, it was decided that he would take it in to Ford to get it looked at. After a run around, Ford said they were going to switch 02's sensors to see if it triggers it again, but on the different side of the engine. However he needed to book an appt for a few weeks down the road. When he took the car back from Ford, then light was off. He took the car on a nice long road trip of 2000+ kms and has not had a problem untill that last month. Now it is starting to show up again. It appears that it may have something to do with the cold weather.
I have not been in contact with him recently and he has not taken his car into have the 02 sensors swapped to my knowledge.
So far our results are inconclusive, mind you we have not had a real opprotunity to work on it when the car is on a nice cool working temperature. As it turns out, the front 02 Sensor on the passenger side of an automatic transmission is a little tough to get at.
Mike |
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| HokieEtown |
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the update. I will try and get it read with a different reader. Mine is the CReader by Launch as well.
If it is the O2, aren't the MIL Eliminators suppose to help? I was wondering if I should go that route.
Thanks,
Taylor |
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| GOT BOOST |
quote:
Originally posted by HokieEtown
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the update. I will try and get it read with a different reader. Mine is the CReader by Launch as well.
If it is the O2, aren't the MIL Eliminators suppose to help? I was wondering if I should go that route.
Thanks,
Taylor
Hi Taylor,
If you keep an eye out, part source will have the readers on sale from time to time. This is the code reader he purchased. http://www.amazon.com/Equus-OBD-II-...r/dp/B0002JMDX6
He purchased it online for I think around $150.00 USD including shipping. They are normally priced around the $250.00 CDN mark at the local auto shops. There is another more expensive model which will provide you with a disc that you can plug your diagnostics into your computer and also get updates for the reader. This one is around the $400.00 CDN range. For all intensive purposes the lesser priced one is a good one and suited our needs.
You can take the car in to get a code read, but it may be $80.00 to get it done. Even then, it may not be accurate as to pinpoint the problem.
Our next step is to swap out the 02 sensors with new ones and see if that does the trick.
*Memo to self, let the car cool first, use gloves when working beside the auto tranny* :lol:
We thought the Steeda MIL Eliminators would do the trick too. We went down that road and no success. It appears that the Steeda MIL Eliminators do have some defects in them. Ie) You may need to send a few back to get a good working one. One of the eliminators needed the clip to be "modified" for it to work. I believe this was the clip on the passanger side. The ones he purchased were for the rear 02 sensors. I think that is the only one made for that car.
The issue we had was with the passanger side front 02 which is located just after the 1st cat. We were not getting codes from the rear 02's which had the MIL ELiminators installed on them.
Perhaps it is the 02 sensor and it was its time to go for some odd reason and freak of nature, or it somehow was damaged during the install. Perhaps due to a lack of a cat before it is causing a faulty reading. But if that were the case, both sensors should be triggering codes.
He has also noticed that the light has been on when the fuel tank is low. We will be eliminating one thing at a time. But we do not want to replace parts for the sake of replacing parts if they do not need to be done.
If we ever find the root cause of this I will let you know. For now, I would suggets purchasing the OBDII code reader, or getting the code read. This way it will give you a good starting point.
Hope this helps,
Mike |
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| HokieEtown |
Mike,
Thanks for all the info. You have been very helpful.
My plan is to get it read and go from there.
Thanks again,
Taylor |
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| sparkycivic |
| i have a new code reader. might be fun to try... this one has buttons!:thumbup: it's the red one from princess auto |
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