| Drifting question: Are the spoilers functional? - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| BErettin |
| ok so alot of the drift cars i have seen those hidious ricer wings on. do they pose any advantage besides a weight difference?. going that slow i cant possibly think of any reason for them to have one. does it maybe have to do with weather?. if there is some moisture they put it on for added weight?. thanks |
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| icydude |
when your going 100 mph sideways you want all the traction you can get.
thats why the pro drifters run r compound tires usually. |
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| GT34 |
| Those nasty ricer wings are actually functional. However they only work when they're mounted high on the car in order to catch enough undisturbed air to create downforce on the rear of the car. Whether you like the look of the wing is up to you but those things actually work..................if you have rear wheel drive. |
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| newred |
quote:
Originally posted by GT34
Those nasty ricer wings are actually functional. However they only work when they're mounted high on the car in order to catch enough undisturbed air to create downforce on the rear of the car. Whether you like the look of the wing is up to you but those things actually work..................if you have rear wheel drive.
What do u mean they don't work on my Civic!!! Shit i'll have to put one on the front on my car.:thumbup:
j/k lol |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by newred
What do u mean they don't work on my Civic!!! Shit i'll have to put one on the front on my car.:thumbup:
j/k lol
Actually those big spoilers do work on fwd's but thats a different topic. |
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| GT34 |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
Actually those big spoilers do work on fwd's but thats a different topic.
Only if the wing is flipped upside down. Nonetheless = :limpwrist |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by icydude
when your going 100 mph sideways you want all the traction you can get.
100MPH Sideways?
Reaaaaalllly? |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by GT34
Only if the wing is flipped upside down. Nonetheless = :limpwrist
What the hell are you talking about? You think that FWD cars don't require downforce on their rear tires as well? Tell that to all of the Civic drivers that get massive oversteer when they lift off in high-speed corners. |
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| REFLUX |
Considering the high cost of renting a wind tunnel, I'm not sure if much research went into developing those wings.
IMO, drifting is a "showy" style of driving....and what kind of show car would be without a big wing?
:dunno: |
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| GT34 |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
What the hell are you talking about? You think that FWD cars don't require downforce on their rear tires as well? Tell that to all of the Civic drivers that get massive oversteer when they lift off in high-speed corners.
Of course in the race aspect of it requires the car to have more downforce regardless of whether it's fwd or rwd. Like the guy said before you need all the traction you can get. FWD cars spin out all the time around corners, but the money would be better spent on suspension upgrades or on tires than a big :limpwrist wing. Civics are not aerodynamically capable of greatly bennifiting from a downforce wing, the whole car has to be aerodynamic and utilized for downforce. |
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| shorti |
quote:
Originally posted by GT34
Civics are not aerodynamically capable of greatly bennifiting from a downforce wing, the whole car has to be aerodynamic and utilized for downforce.
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| notaturbotalon |
| Drifting is judged, 'nuff said. |
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| 2003specv |
quote:
Originally posted by icydude
when your going 100 mph sideways you want all the traction you can get.
thats why the pro drifters run r compound tires usually.
It's not for traction, it's for control. |
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| SilverZ24 |
| The big question is what excuse are all the people driving around town using to justify having one of these hideous things? They definitely aren't drifting at 100mph. lol :rolleyes: |
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| Altezza |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverZ24
The big question is what excuse are all the people driving around town using to justify having one of these hideous things? They definitely aren't drifting at 100mph. lol :rolleyes:
Because their pimp ass!! :lol: |
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| Buddyworm |
How effective would these spoilers be during a drift? Seriously. Once the tail steps out at high speed the spoiler becomes nearly useless. It's the reason oversteer in F1 cars is so deadly. Not to mention that cars mid-drift don't often carry enough speed to actually make effective use of the wing anyway.
It's decoration, nuff said.
B-Wurm :D
**Edit:
quote:
Originally posted by GT34
Civics are not aerodynamically capable of greatly bennifiting from a downforce wing, the whole car has to be aerodynamic and utilized for downforce.
Then explain how cars like the Acura TL, BMW M3 or Porsche 911's make use of canards, splitter, and rear wing to create downforce. None of these are the most aerodynamic cars in the world, yet the 911 comes from the factory with functional rear wing. |
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| ChromeDragon |
| Believe me, I think that a GT wing on anything less than a full race car is ridiculous. But to say that a FWD car doesn't require rear downforce at high speeds is just ignorant. |
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| GT34 |
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyworm
Then explain how cars like the Acura TL, BMW M3 or Porsche 911's make use of canards, splitter, and rear wing to create downforce. None of these are the most aerodynamic cars in the world, yet the 911 comes from the factory with functional rear wing.
Dude I'm talking about civics here, not 911's.
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
But to say that a FWD car doesn't require rear downforce at high speeds is just ignorant.
Who said that? |
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| Murph |
Drift cars have spoilers to make them look like race cars, confusing little kids into thinking that’s actual racing.
Now my opinion of drifting aside, a rear spoiler/wing on a race car is very complex. There is a lot of research that goes into wings, front and rear. Getting things like the right height and angle of attack are very tricky, so that they produce enough down force but not too much drag rendering it useless. Not to mention that it should be changed from application to application. A race wing can cost $1000 and up. Extensive wind tunnel tests are done to make sure its doing its job, on that car! Each car is different so the placement of the wing fore/aft and height must change on how the air flows over the car that my friend is called Fluid dynamics, which is very complex.
Cliffs Notes: Your APC spoiler is junk and most likely makes you slower and potentially more unstable at speeds then before. If you plan on racing on a track get a real one. |
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| Tech2 |
| I always think that spoilers on a drift car are a little like muscles on a WWF wrestler. Yeah, the shiny muscles might be useful to pin someone for a 3 count, but that's not really the point. |
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| Buddyworm |
quote:
Originally posted by GT34
Dude I'm talking about civics here, not 911's.
You said "are not aerodynamically capable of benefiting from a downforce wing". Yet, the reality is that all cars are capable of benefiting from downforce. The fact that one car is a civic and the other is a 911 is irrelevant.
B-Wurm :D |
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| BErettin |
| OK so to finnish off my question are they.. or are they NOT bennificial to the car. Personally i doubt it because they are sideways. unless the spoiler is directed in the directionof the airflow would it not just cut the air into a pointless direction causing no effect on the car or drift? |
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| Thegnome |
quote:
Originally posted by BErettin
OK so to finnish off my question are they.. or are they NOT bennificial to the car. Personally i doubt it because they are sideways. unless the spoiler is directed in the directionof the airflow would it not just cut the air into a pointless direction causing no effect on the car or drift?
You guys might be missing the big picture. When guys are racing on those mental courses, like the tougue or what ever they always feature in best motoring, sure they're drifting alot. Even using cars designed with drift in mind...But none the less, racing.
And with some thought, some body might decide to use a wing with more traction in mind not so much...durring a slide.
Some driver in a car club doing a drift demo isn't going to remove his spoiler for the sake of keeping rationalism in mind.
But then again, you say guys aren't driving fast when drifting, You watch keiichi tsuchiya drive and realize he's initiating his drifts at like 150km... I'm sure there is room for aerodynamics there. |
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| dc2696 |
| If you want a wing to function better when sideays look at wrc guys wings. They function fully even when airflow is going across the spoiler and not towards it directly. |
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| driftr420 |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
If you want a wing to function better when sideays look at wrc guys wings. They function fully even when airflow is going across the spoiler and not towards it directly.
SNAP :thumbup: |
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| BErettin |
quote:
Originally posted by Thegnome
You guys might be missing the big picture. When guys are racing on those mental courses, like the tougue or what ever they always feature in best motoring, sure they're drifting alot. Even using cars designed with drift in mind...But none the less, racing.
And with some thought, some body might decide to use a wing with more traction in mind not so much...durring a slide.
Some driver in a car club doing a drift demo isn't going to remove his spoiler for the sake of keeping rationalism in mind.
But then again, you say guys aren't driving fast when drifting, You watch keiichi tsuchiya drive and realize he's initiating his drifts at like 150km... I'm sure there is room for aerodynamics there.
good point.. speed is definitly a factor. HOWEVER when the ass end it out sideways the air does not travel directly over the spoiler. it hits the side of it. therefore i cannot see how durring a drift (NOT RACING) ONLY DRIFTING, the car can bennifit from a spoiler |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by BErettin
good point.. speed is definitly a factor. HOWEVER when the ass end it out sideways the air does not travel directly over the spoiler. it hits the side of it. therefore i cannot see how durring a drift (NOT RACING) ONLY DRIFTING, the car can bennifit from a spoiler
Like I said, see WRC spoilers, fully function with 90 degree airflow across them. |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by Thegnome
You guys might be missing the big picture. When guys are racing on those mental courses, like the tougue or what ever they always feature in best motoring, sure they're drifting alot. Even using cars designed with drift in mind...But none the less, racing.
And with some thought, some body might decide to use a wing with more traction in mind not so much...durring a slide.
Some driver in a car club doing a drift demo isn't going to remove his spoiler for the sake of keeping rationalism in mind.
But then again, you say guys aren't driving fast when drifting, You watch keiichi tsuchiya drive and realize he's initiating his drifts at like 150km... I'm sure there is room for aerodynamics there.
I've never in my life saw a race with drifting on pavement, that wasn't a joke. |
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| BErettin |
ok guys.. you are gettin way into it. when a car is drifting the spoiler does not pose any functuality correct?. that is all i want to know.
i am talking about the gay ass carbon fiber bull shit or the $150 special from canadian tire that you see on all drifting magazines.
In less than 4 words can you tell me any reason why a spoiler would bennifet a drift or pose a purpose in a drift. |
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| icydude |
| some of those gay ass cf bulshit wings cost 2300 usd |
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| luder |
Look at Immamura's Apex'i FD3S. His wing is functional as well as offering some downforce while sideways. Yes the wings functionality is reduced when going sideways, but 30-40 degrees of deflection during a drift won't cancel the downforce effects at 140 kph. It may not be as good as traveling in a straight line, but a properly designed wing will still offer downforce at angle.
If they didn't, planes would fall out of the sky, since they often fly sideways in the wind using the tail to correct trim.
And just so you know, fluid dynamics concerns itself with fluidic properties, as in water or other liquids.
Aerodynamics is the study of gas flow, specifically Earth's atmosphere.
Fluid dynamics have no effect on your car unless you often take it swimming. |
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| JustinL |
quote:
Originally posted by luder
And just so you know, fluid dynamics concerns itself with fluidic properties, as in water or other liquids.
Aerodynamics is the study of gas flow, specifically Earth's atmosphere.
Fluid dynamics have no effect on your car unless you often take it swimming.
If we're going to argue semantics, aerodynamics is a branch of fluid dynamics. Air is also a fluid. Hydrodynamics is the term for liquid dynamics (specifically water). |
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| 95EagleAWD |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
Like I said, see WRC spoilers, fully function with 90 degree airflow across them.
Well, kind of.
Since a wing on a car operates the same way as a wing on a plane, except upside-down, airflow 90 degrees to the wing can't create downforce. You can't fly a plane sideways, can you? (I've tried it and failed. Backwards, yes, but not sideways... and backwards takes a very windy day)
That would be the purpose of endplates, to force the air over the wing at a certain angle to ensure that the wing still generates it's downforce. |
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| BErettin |
quote:
Originally posted by icydude
some of those gay ass cf bulshit wings cost 2300 usd
shoulds bought them off ebay.:dunno: |
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| Murph |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
If we're going to argue semantics, aerodynamics is a branch of fluid dynamics. Air is also a fluid. Hydrodynamics is the term for liquid dynamics (specifically water).
Thank you, got to it before i could... but lets not get into a pissing match about stuff like that... back to drifting being silly :P |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
Well, kind of.
Since a wing on a car operates the same way as a wing on a plane, except upside-down, airflow 90 degrees to the wing can't create downforce. You can't fly a plane sideways, can you? (I've tried it and failed. Backwards, yes, but not sideways... and backwards takes a very windy day)
That would be the purpose of endplates, to force the air over the wing at a certain angle to ensure that the wing still generates it's downforce.
K maybe I was exagerating abit when I said 90degrees. But maybe you missed the part about the vertical pieces, heres a pic to clarify, sideways airflow is straighten out over the wing.
This addition to Subaru's updated aerodynamics package first appearing at the 2003 Rally Monte Carlo. The new rear wing has four vertical slats that improve high-speed stability by maintaining downforce when driving sideways. The WRC rear wing uses the wind to help push the tail back behind the nose of the car.
As the wing pushes through the air, the air following the top surface of the wing gets flung upward. The force of air being redirected up off the wing pushes back down on the wing. On the bottom surface, the opposite happens; with the wing surface suddenly pulling up, air is sucked up to take its place, and when that happens, the air pulls back down on the wing. This generates a significant amount of downforce on the vehicle.
Slide into a corner at a 30-degree angle two things happen. First, the wing is effectively narrower to the air approaching it. Second, the cross section of the wing, carefully designed in the wind tunnel for optimal downforce, gets elongated, taking some of the violence out of the air's journey upward.
Violence is everything when you're dealing with air, so the no-longer optimal cross section of the wing means less downforce.
The slats force the air to straighten out and go across the wing as the team aerodynamicist intended. All the air slamming into the side of those four slats, plus the two end plates, also work to straighten the car out, much like the vertical stabilizer on an airplane.
(copied/pasted from site) |
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| icydude |
quote:
Originally posted by BErettin
shoulds bought them off ebay.:dunno:
go find a doluck cf wing on ebay..... |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
All the air slamming into the side of those four slats, plus the two end plates, also work to straighten the car out, much like the vertical stabilizer on an airplane.
(copied/pasted from site)
Isn't straightening the car out exactly what drifters DON'T want? |
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| Supra_devil |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Isn't straightening the car out exactly what drifters DON'T want?
control is what they want, that helps them have more control.
when drifting/rallying a car, having that 'push' trying to straighten the car out is a lot better than nothing and the ass end passing you. |
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| 95EagleAWD |
dc2696...
Never seen that wing before. Thanks for that! |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Isn't straightening the car out exactly what drifters DON'T want?
....Did u read anything I said??? It straightens out the AIR FLOW to add downforce when sideways, thus giving you better control in a high speed slide. |
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| dc2696 |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
dc2696...
Never seen that wing before. Thanks for that!
I figured you hadn't, no prob man:thumbup:
-Dean |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by dc2696
....Did u read anything I said??? It straightens out the AIR FLOW to add downforce when sideways, thus giving you better control in a high speed slide.
Guess I've been told. :rolleyes: |
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