| best civic engine for turbocharged power gains? - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| bluciv93 |
| between the 92-95 civic model what engine would be the best to turbo for horsepower gains? |
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| newred |
| B18 :dunno: H22:thumbup: |
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| bluciv93 |
quote:
Originally posted by newred
B18 :dunno: H22:thumbup:
stock civic engines |
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| NESTLE |
| well u only have a 1.5 or 1.6 then.......:rolleyes: take your pic |
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| baker_jeff |
| B16 is what you're looking for then. |
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| Altezza |
| Just buy a b16 or b18 their farely cheap and if you know how to swap then no problems. If you dont know how to swap then your looking to spend more on that than you payed for the motor. For a good quality job. |
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| Soulfly |
A B18B comes stock in Integra's and Is A VERY GOOD Powerplant for boost..
Otherwise.. a D16Z6 Would be your other bet.. :thumbup: |
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| Savage |
| b18's boosted. huge potential, because the only downfall of the b18 is a restrictive head. |
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| Soulfly |
quote:
Originally posted by Savage
b18's boosted. huge potential, because the only downfall of the b18 is a restrictive head.
But that's an EASY Fix.. ;) |
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| integraboi_00 |
quote:
Originally posted by Soulfly
But that's an EASY Fix.. ;)
how so?? just wondering cuz im boosting but i want to do the head aswell. wat would you suggest? |
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| Soulfly |
quote:
Originally posted by egtuner
GSR, b18c1
B16A, B16B(If by some magical chance you come across one), B17. B18C, B18C1, B18C5.. Any of those will work..
Plus.. you'll need the VTEC Oil lines Steathmode makes some.. :thumbup: |
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| bluciv93 |
| i have heard the b16 and the d16z6 are the best ones. which of these can handle the turbo better? |
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| Soulfly |
Z6 would be a better Idea..
B16's are higher compression.. So.. you might not wanna Swap and do that...
Baker_Jeff is boosting a B16.. But.. He's pushing his luck..
But IF you are going to swap.. Might as well swap to a B18B Because .. It's Going to Out perform the B16 Easily. :thumbup: |
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| Holset Hatch |
what are your goals? you cant really go wrong with any of the b-series motors. i think bang for buck the non-vtec's are hard to beat, boost friendly comp ratio, and they are cheap. i prefer the ls/vtec but its not a stock honda offering. as far as which is better for boost between b16 and d16z6... it not as easy as which one handles more boost, but an easy way to see is to look at compression ratio's. the higher the comp ratio, the more it will be prone to knock and detonation without 94+ octane or race gas. they will probably handle similiar boost pressures, but the b16 obviously will make more power at the same pressures.
with that said figure out what you want for a power level, be realistic... if you only want 200-300hp, build a nice d16z6 with forged internals, quality turbo components and crome or uberdata to manage. if you want all out power, stick with the b-series, 1.8l's offer you a bit more torque.
either way the reliability of turbo honda motors depends on your tune, without a good tune, any of the stock motors will die very quickly. |
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| Praylewd powr |
stay away from the H22 for boost. Too much money to do right.....do a b18 for sure.
d |
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| Soulfly |
quote:
Originally posted by Holset Hatch
what are your goals? you cant really go wrong with any of the b-series motors. i think bang for buck the non-vtec's are hard to beat, boost friendly comp ratio, and they are cheap. i prefer the ls/vtec but its not a stock honda offering. as far as which is better for boost between b16 and d16z6... it not as easy as which one handles more boost, but an easy way to see is to look at compression ratio's. the higher the comp ratio, the more it will be prone to knock and detonation without 94+ octane or race gas. they will probably handle similiar boost pressures, but the b16 obviously will make more power at the same pressures.
with that said figure out what you want for a power level, be realistic... if you only want 200-300hp, build a nice d16z6 with forged internals, quality turbo components and crome or uberdata to manage. if you want all out power, stick with the b-series, 1.8l's offer you a bit more torque.
either way the reliability of turbo honda motors depends on your tune, without a good tune, any of the stock motors will die very quickly.
Couldn't Agree more..
And A Good Tune Is VERY Important. |
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| bluciv93 |
quote:
Originally posted by Soulfly
Couldn't Agree more..
And A Good Tune Is VERY Important.
who here can do a good tune? |
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| baker_jeff |
Meee meeee! I only say that cause my shit hasnt blown up yet.
Stock B16s are good for close to 300WHP with a GOOOOOD tune, 250WHP with a decent one. |
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| Soulfly |
the most important thing in the tune Is Mostly Retard your timing so that there is no Pre-Det. and a Litte more than usual Fuel, to keep it cooler.. :thumbup:
But, Leave that.. to a pro.. or someone who has alot of experience...
Talk to 95IntegraRS About that one.. I'm pretty sure he works somewere with a Dyno.. and can assist you with that one. :thumbup: |
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| Praylewd powr |
there aren't any really good honda tuners around. That is why I do all my own work. No offence to anyone, but it is the truth. And I don't know if Brad at speedtech is still tuning.
d |
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| S2KPWR |
I would vote B18b I think they are 8:1? They seem to be the most common for swaps for guys who want to add aftermarket turbo's.
More room for error in tuning, less chance of det etc.
Boosting higher compression engines requires more precise tuning. I boosted a 11:5:1 engine, and its workable, but tedious.
And your gunna need a programable ECU.
I would talk to Blaine at Subracing for tuning.. Been hearing alot of positive feedback. And i've been dealing with him for about 4 years now. |
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| Blaine B. |
| B18A for sure. VTEC is for sissies, I like torque everywhere, throw some real cams in the head. 11.97 best E.T. in an EF Hatch. 119.8x MPH best speed. 7200 rpm rev limit, factory LS tranny as well. 18 lbs of boost on C16 with 550 CC injectors (which weren't enough btw, 110% duty cycle @ 5500 rpm. Should be able to run 14-16 psi on pump gas reliably. Oh, that was a stock longblock as well except for the STR block guard. Hondata engine management (S200). |
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| Holset Hatch |
quote:
B18A for sure. VTEC is for sissies
haha combine those both and then tell me that :thumbup: a vtec head beats non-vtec + cams hands down. but bang for buck you cant beat the ls motors. |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by Holset Hatch
haha combine those both and then tell me that :thumbup: a vtec head beats non-vtec + cams hands down. but bang for buck you cant beat the ls motors.
VTEC is for grocery getters. Why only switch to a power cam at high revs to maintain your lackluster torque? Put a real cam in from the start.
How many of the fastest Honda drag cars utilize VTEC? I am talking about seriously fast cars, sub 10 seconds. |
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| Holset Hatch |
its not the switching of the cam that makes the vtec head that special other than drivability and gas consumption. the head flow/design and cam design from the factory are superior to that of a non-vtec head.
truth be told i dont know of any really fast honda's that run non-vtec heads. although there probably are a few odd balls. take a stroll through the honda-tech forums specifically in the drag racing forum, 95% of the spfwd/hotrod racers that run 10- mid 9's and make 500- 1000hp run vtec heads/with the majority of them running oem honda cams of some sort.
some sub 9sec racers are using aftermarket "vtec killer" camshafts in a vtec head casting. |
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| Praylewd powr |
that is the best point made. Alot of guys will run vtec killer cams so they can run the cam they want all the time but still have the rpm/flow of the vtec head.
d |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by Holset Hatch
some sub 9sec racers are using aftermarket "vtec killer" camshafts in a vtec head casting.
Precisely. |
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| tokes |
quote:
Originally posted by Blaine B.
Precisely.
The reason they do this is to save valvetrain weight by not having all that other garbage on the head for a second set of cam lobes. For a street car and ESPECIALLY A TURBO CAR you're going to benefit by having the VTEC lobes on a camshaft. Stock ITR cams are around 300 degrees of advertised duration on the VTEC side, which is huge compared to even the big "race" cams for DSM's. Those cams won't idle in a 1.8L motor at anything less than 1500 RPM's, and smaller cams with less overlap will promote scavenging and spool the turbo up earlier. Most people tune the car on the low cam map, then tune the car on the high cam map, and setup the VTEC crossover for the point where the VTEC lobes start making more power than the Non-VTEC lobes. Best of both worlds, and a much better choice than VTEC killer cams other than on something like a road race car or an absolutely purpose built drag car. |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by tokes
The reason they do this is to save valvetrain weight by not having all that other garbage on the head for a second set of cam lobes. For a street car and ESPECIALLY A TURBO CAR you're going to benefit by having the VTEC lobes on a camshaft. Stock ITR cams are around 300 degrees of advertised duration on the VTEC side, which is huge compared to even the big "race" cams for DSM's. Those cams won't idle in a 1.8L motor at anything less than 1500 RPM's, and smaller cams with less overlap will promote scavenging and spool the turbo up earlier. Most people tune the car on the low cam map, then tune the car on the high cam map, and setup the VTEC crossover for the point where the VTEC lobes start making more power than the Non-VTEC lobes. Best of both worlds, and a much better choice than VTEC killer cams other than on something like a road race car or an absolutely purpose built drag car.
I haven't seen many stock longblock Honda's around here go faster than 11.97@119, hell even built engines.
Cheap, effective and reliable. Hard to beat a B18A in my opinion. Unless you want to run 10's or something. In that case mortgage your house if you want it to be reliable. |
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| Praylewd powr |
give me a set of 24.5 tall slicks and a spare passenger side axle and I will top that on pump gas.
Duane
(I will aim for that in the spring then) |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by Praylewd powr
give me a set of 24.5 tall slicks and a spare passenger side axle and I will top that on pump gas.
Duane
(I will aim for that in the spring then)
Duane,
I have no doubt that your setup is capable of running great times.
But if you were to do it all over again, would you go H22? |
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| Praylewd powr |
nope
but I have said that time and time again!
:D
My buddys b18a with stock sleeves runs great numbers on pump gas too. And so much cheaper!
d |
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| Altezza |
| How about the B20B what is the aftermarket like for this engine? Turbos, Cams, Manifolds, Exhaust etc... |
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| tokes |
quote:
Originally posted by Blaine B.
I haven't seen many stock longblock Honda's around here go faster than 11.97@119, hell even built engines.
Cheap, effective and reliable. Hard to beat a B18A in my opinion. Unless you want to run 10's or something. In that case mortgage your house if you want it to be reliable.
We don't even have any hondas into the 10's here, so using Edmonton/AB as a baseline for what they can do is a pretty poor representation. Go look at what NHRA SPFWD or Nopi Turbo Street cars are doing, LOTS of them into the 10's and 9's, and a lot of them on very basic setups.
Just because nobody from Edmonton has taken a B18C1, thrown some pistons/rods in it, a good turbo kit, fuel system, and ltos of boost and pounded off some low 10's doesn't mean it isn't doable. |
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| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by tokes
We don't even have any hondas into the 10's here, so using Edmonton/AB as a baseline for what they can do is a pretty poor representation. Go look at what NHRA SPFWD or Nopi Turbo Street cars are doing, LOTS of them into the 10's and 9's, and a lot of them on very basic setups.
Just because nobody from Edmonton has taken a B18C1, thrown some pistons/rods in it, a good turbo kit, fuel system, and ltos of boost and pounded off some low 10's doesn't mean it isn't doable.
Quite true, and it just so happens that there is a complete kit that is capable (albiet with a larger turbo) of it for sale at an extremely cheap price in the marketplace section of this very board. |
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