| mikeylikesit |
well as a few people know i lost my licence for 30 days (wont get into detail but ya i fucked up).
but in the mail the other day i got a notice saying that i have too many demarits now so i will have another suspension beginning november 4th.
so i was wondering where these demarits came from.
what the guy from pointts told me is that i either get a suspension or demarits. it cant be both.
so was he just feeding me a line or is that true?
i'm going to call the number on monday and see if they can tell me where they came from. i dont believe i should have to go pay for an abstract if someone else screwed up.
:dunno: |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
I know when you hit 15 demerits they suspend your license... go to a registries pull an abstract and see what all your demerits are for.
As far as the suspension or demerits thing, no clue.
I know you can or used to be able to be suspended if you had over $500 in unpaid traffic tickets. Which is like 1 failing to stop for a pedestrian ticket now. |
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| dtjohnst |
You'll have to give us more info. If you don't know how many demerits you have, tell us what tickets you've received, including this recent one, and what they were for. Also, are you on the Graduated system or do you have a full licence? Do you recall being a sent a letter saying you had 8 demerits?
As far as I know, you can get suspended and obtain demerits. In fact, I'm pretty sure you WILL get demerits. Nowhere does it say suspension is issued in lieu of demerits. Maybe the guy at POINTTS thought he could get it reduced to one or the other. Or maybe he did, but you were charged with multiple violations and received demerits for them. Everything you received should've been outlined to you. |
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| fartcannon |
| Seriously take the ama defensive driving course. You get 3 demerits off your abstract and your insurance will acutally drop. I had to since i had 2 tickets both 3 demerit and due to my good ol gdl i am only allowed 8!!! so to all of you allowed 15 i envy you and if you loose your license all i have for you is rofl. When i took the course i lost 3 demerits so im down to 3. funny thing is i had 5 photo radar, and 2 pull overs and somehow my insurance dropped 15 dollars a month when i renewed my insurance. :dunno: ohh well lucky me. The course is such a joke. It was about 30 people in a little room joking about speeding and reckless driving. I stopped speeding so much since then but seriously there really is not much you will learn that you dont already know if you have been driving for a little while. imo waste of time really but worth it for the demerits being removed. Still it was interesting at times |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by fartcannon
Seriously take the ama defensive driving course. You get 3 demerits off your abstract and your insurance will acutally drop. I had to since i had 2 tickets both 3 demerit and due to my good ol gdl i am only allowed 8!!! so to all of you allowed 15 i envy you and if you loose your license all i have for you is rofl. When i took the course i lost 3 demerits so im down to 3. funny thing is i had 5 photo radar, and 2 pull overs and somehow my insurance dropped 15 dollars a month when i renewed my insurance. :dunno: ohh well lucky me. The course is such a joke. It was about 30 people in a little room joking about speeding and reckless driving. I stopped speeding so much since then but seriously there really is not much you will learn that you dont already know if you have been driving for a little while. imo waste of time really but worth it for the demerits being removed. Still it was interesting at times
Except he can't if they take his licence again. |
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| mikeylikesit |
well i got a ticket for estimated 160 in a 70 as well as a stunting.. the stunting was thrown out but the speeding was held.
so trial and everything went on the speeding and i was issued a 30 day suspension as well as a $2000 fine plus a 300 victim surcharge bullshit.
but i was told that it was either a suspension or a fine with demarits (which would be 7 demarits).
yes i am on gdl still, tried to get off by taking the advanced road test, but failed due to an uncontrolled intersection (doesnt make sense to me because i did not break any laws by doing 35-40 thru it).
once i get my licence back i'm going to sign up for that defensive driveing course.. just incase i end up with another ticket in the next year before i get my regular licence.
anything else i need to elaborate on? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by mikeylikesit
well i got a ticket for estimated 160 in a 70 as well as a stunting.. the stunting was thrown out but the speeding was held.
so trial and everything went on the speeding and i was issued a 30 day suspension as well as a $2000 fine plus a 300 victim surcharge bullshit.
but i was told that it was either a suspension or a fine with demarits (which would be 7 demarits).
yes i am on gdl still, tried to get off by taking the advanced road test, but failed due to an uncontrolled intersection (doesnt make sense to me because i did not break any laws by doing 35-40 thru it).
once i get my licence back i'm going to sign up for that defensive driveing course.. just incase i end up with another ticket in the next year before i get my regular licence.
anything else i need to elaborate on?
What makes you say it's bullshit? You obviously fail to realize how dangerous what you did was. With an attitude like this, it's too bad they'll let you drive again.....even if it is in another 3 months. They should've kept the stunting one too it seems. Or at least careless driving, maybe wreckless endangerment, or something. 160 in a 70 is absolutely insane. I would've thrown the book at you. Misaligned headlights, tires improperly worn, everything I could find to get you off the streets. One day you'll kill someone doing crap like.
Who told you it was a suspension or fine with demerits? unless it was the judge/magistrate, it means nothing. What did the judge say? Did you have any tickets before that?
Anyways, I wouldn't be surprised if you got "Exceeding limit by more than 50km/hr over" and "unreasonable rate", both speeding violations. The first is worth 6 demerits, the second 4. So if the judge told you otherwise, I could easily see you have at least those 10 demerits. Perhaps they didn't fine you for the stunting but still convicted you? That plus the 50 over would be more than 8. Careless driving is 6, maybe that was slapped on there. Racing is another 6.....As you can see, driving like you did adds up the demerits fast. The question is what were you convicted of? You said it would be 7 demerits, but as you can see, nothing I've listed is 7 demerits, so I have no idea what you were charged with in the end.
You say pointts told you something, but what did the judge/magistrate say? That's the biggest peice of information we need. If you don't know that, then you should pay attention next time you're in court, in the meantime, suck it up and go buy an abstract and see. If it really is in error, you might be able to get your money back for it, MAYBE. But I've never heard of them making an error.
Incidently, did you STOP before intering the uncontrolled intersection? If not, you did break the law. They don't fail people for nothing, they fail you if you don't do something right, that doesn't mean you broke the law necessarily, though usually that's the cause for automatic failure. If you don't understand why that as wrong, you should've asked the guy that failed, or like when you went to court but don't know what you were convicted of, maybe you should've just paid attention. |
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| fartcannon |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
Except he can't if they take his licence again.
Ummm what do you mean? you dont need your lisence to take that course. It is so people who are about to loose theirs, or have lost theirs, want to keep it or get it back due to demerits. Please explain what you mean. At least i dont think you do... |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by fartcannon
Ummm what do you mean? you dont need your lisence to take that course. It is so people who are about to loose theirs, or have lost theirs, want to keep it or get it back due to demerits. Please explain what you mean
What I mean is it won't matter. He won't not lose it. If it's being suspended, lowering demerits won't help until next time.
Lets say he loses it for 3 months and takes the course. He won't get it back until those 3 months are up, then he'll be at 3 demerits again. Which isn't enough demerits for the reduction. You need at least 7 to be able to reduce them. If you're a fully licenced driver at 15 demerits, after a 3 month suspension sure that might drop you down and give you a buffer since you don't get a drastic drop after suspension like GDL does.
I dunno if I explained that right. It makes sense in my head. Lemme know if it's still confusing. |
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| RS13.2 |
quote:
Originally posted by fartcannon
Ummm what do you mean? you dont need your lisence to take that course. It is so people who are about to loose theirs, or have lost theirs, want to keep it or get it back due to demerits. Please explain what you mean. At least i dont think you do...
Without a liscence (when suspended) you can't drive. Can not, the trick is to take this course before you get suspended. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
The problem with uncontrolled intersections it you don't know if it's uncontrolled. Like say around 108ave between 101st and 109st, every intersection cross traffic has a stop sign, but you can't see most of them due to trees, come from the direction that has "right of way".
Where as near my grandmothers place, between 106ave, and 99ave, and Gretsky drive and I dunno where 80st about. Almost all the non-major residential roads are uncontrolled, and you can't see if the cross traffic has signs because of trees or something. I know over there most people slow to yield, if they see no traffic they roll through, if traffic they stop. I don't know how many dozens of police cars I've seen over the years doing that exact thing too.
But back on topic..
I'm agreeing with dtjohnst, with that attitude, I'm thinking you should just bend over, lube up and walk backwards.
I mean in my young and stupid days I did some pretty stupid things, and I mean stupid, but I never did anything like that, and if I got busted doing something stupid I sucked it up and took my punishment. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
The problem with uncontrolled intersections it you don't know if it's uncontrolled. Like say around 108ave between 101st and 109st, every intersection cross traffic has a stop sign, but you can't see most of them due to trees, come from the direction that has "right of way".
Where as near my grandmothers place, between 106ave, and 99ave, and Gretsky drive and I dunno where 80st about. Almost all the non-major residential roads are uncontrolled, and you can't see if the cross traffic has signs because of trees or something. I know over there most people slow to yield, if they see no traffic they roll through, if traffic they stop. I don't know how many dozens of police cars I've seen over the years doing that exact thing too.
And I doubt you'd get a fine for doing that, but it is, technically, illegal. There are lots of things we all do every day that will lose you points on a drivers test: signalling too late (or not signalling at all), not stopping at a crosswalk but at the sign, etc.
When in doubt, the rule is stop. Now to be fair, that's a good way to piss people off and to cause accidents be being rear-ended, but insofar as the law is concerned, driving is a priviledge. You should leave in ample time to get where you're going, blah blah, so that if some asshat is stopping at every intersection because they're unsure you don't need to get mad, and you should be paying enough attention not to hit them.
Nonetheless, if you're unsure, stop. Maybe not in real life, but DEFINATELY on a road test. |
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| fartcannon |
quote:
Originally posted by RS13.2
Without a liscence (when suspended) you can't drive. Can not, the trick is to take this course before you get suspended.
I dont think you realize you do not drive at all in the course. But yes if your suspended i know you cant get out of the suspension by taking this course. I just thought he was saying that he might get a suspension again afterwards for to many demerits.
but in the mail the other day i got a notice saying that i have too many demarits now so i will have another suspension beginning november 4th.
I was trying to help him for this suspension. I know hes fucked for the other. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by fartcannon
I dont think you realize you do not drive at all in the course. But yes if your suspended i know you cant get out of the suspension by taking this course. I just thought he was saying that he might get a suspension again afterwards for to many demerits.
but in the mail the other day i got a notice saying that i have too many demarits now so i will have another suspension beginning november 4th.
I was trying to help him for this suspension. I know hes fucked for the other.
The point is he's on GDL. So after his 3 month suspension he'll be down to 3 demerits, which is too few to have his demerits reduced, you need at least 7. So if they suspend it, the course is of no use to him, unless he wants to waste money, since he can't get his demerits reduced. And since they have already sent him a notice that he will be suspended again, taking the course now would be too late for that one.
It's not that he can't take the course, I fully understand he can. But it won't accomplish anything for him other than to waste money. |
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| mikeylikesit |
i'm wasnt saying any of the fines were bullshit (except for the stunting because my car has never been able to leave a trail of smoke at an intersection no matter how hard i try, unless i do a neutral drop which i wouldn't do.)
i was saying getting demarits was bullshit because i was told that i would not get demarits if i got a suspension so due to that i plead guilty to the speeding.
the stunting was dropped and i did not get charged for anything on that fine.
i know that what i did was stupid and wreckless and since then i have learned from that. which is what the whole suspension and everything is supposed to do to people. the consequence makes you learn not to do it again.
all i was asking is how did i get demarits when its either one or the other? why am i sittin on a suspension right now when i could have plead not guilty and only got the too many demarits suspension?
and i was given 30 days not 3 months.
and as for the defensive driving course, i did not know how many demarits i'd have when i got my licence back, so thats why i was saying i'd take that course so then i will have less demarits.. but coming back with 3 isnt bad.
as for sucking up my punishment, i am. i'm not sittin here saying its stupid to lose my licence because what i did never hurt anyone. i dont like the outxcome of it, but shit, its life so i gotta deal with it.
all i was asking is where the demarits came from and if i was told wrong in the court about getting demarits taken off. |
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| fartcannon |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
The point is he's on GDL. So after his 3 month suspension he'll be down to 3 demerits, which is too few to have his demerits reduced, you need at least 7. So if they suspend it, the course is of no use to him, unless he wants to waste money, since he can't get his demerits reduced. And since they have already sent him a notice that he will be suspended again, taking the course now would be too late for that one.
It's not that he can't take the course, I fully understand he can. But it won't accomplish anything for him other than to waste money.
YOU DO NOT NEED AT LEAST 7!!! you can take the course if you have zero and have negative 3 i am not even kidding. call and ask. they are good for a year if you dont use them. TRUST ME dont listen to this guy. he has no clue what he is talking about. seriously call ama tomorrow and talk to them yourself and see for yourself. i took it when i had only 6 demerits and now mine are at 3 so saying you need 7 is a joke. And when you attend the course and before they explain you can take it to have a drop in your insurance rates and have negative 3 demerits if you wish. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by fartcannon
YOU DO NOT NEED AT LEAST 7!!! you can take the course if you have zero and have negative 3 i am not even kidding. call and ask. they are good for a year if you dont use them. TRUST ME dont listen to this guy. he has no clue what he is talking about. seriously call ama tomorrow and talk to them yourself and see for yourself. i took it when i had only 6 demerits and now mine are at 3 so saying you need 7 is a joke. And when you attend the course and before they explain you can take it to have a drop in your insurance rates and have negative 3 demerits if you wish.
That's retarded. Must different for GDL. |
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| fartcannon |
| im pretty sure it is not. But either way im a gdl and so is he so i would strongly recommend you go and take this course. You will have 3 demerits like me and hopefully for your sake you wont have insurance at an unaffordable price. Im not supporting what you did but i know if you dont clean it up some how you are going to be paying for more than you probably deserve |
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| mikeylikesit |
well i'll call about that course so i'll have fewer demarits. and it'll be better for my insurance.
i'm never did say anywhere earlier that what i did was right and i thought the punishment was stupid. i am facing the consequences of my actions and dealing with them fine.
but i figured out the whole demarit thing and the suspension i got.
i called pointts today and talked to dave because i had him represent me at the trial. and he gave me information to give to the "driver fitness and monitoring" place.
he told me to quote this
"Recording demerit points for demerit offences
4(1) The demerit points specified opposite an offence described in Schedules 1 and 2 must be assessed against a driver and recorded by the Registrar in the driver’s driving record in the following circumstances:
(a) if the person is convicted of a demerit offence, unless the person’s operator’s licence is suspended by the court for that conviction under section 86(1) of the Act;"
and explain to them about my suspension for the ticket.
that way i do not get another suspension on top of the one i have already received.
mods- we can lock this thread now, i've got the information i needed. thanx |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
300 victim surcharge bullshit.
Sounds like you called it bullshit to me.
quote:
"Recording demerit points for demerit offences
4(1) The demerit points specified opposite an offence described in Schedules 1 and 2 must be assessed against a driver and recorded by the Registrar in the driver’s driving record in the following circumstances:
(a) if the person is convicted of a demerit offence, unless the person’s operator’s licence is suspended by the court for that conviction under section 86(1) of the Act;"
Which act is that from? |
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| mikeylikesit |
ok yes, i did call the victim surcharge bullshit. i dont agree with it.
who's the victim? the officer that gave me the ticket?
seems to me he's not a victim. he's getting paid to sit in the court room and listen to the trial, while the crown does all the talking for him.
but i dont agree with a lot of things. but what can i do, right?
and that quote is from the demarit point program and service of documents regulation.
i called the fitness and monitoring place today, explained it to them. then i had to call the court house and explain it all to them. they made a big deal saying that its speeding so i get demarits. so i just kept telling them to read that and then tell me that i get demarits. anyways.
they called the monitoring branch and got it all worked out.
i dont get demarits nor do i get another suspension. |
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| dtjohnst |
So you're saying that the taxpayers should pay for exeryone to show up in court because you decided to drive like a maniac?
Thanks for letting me know where it came from. I might have to track down a copy of that document. |
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| mikeylikesit |
quote:
So you're saying that the taxpayers should pay for exeryone to show up in court because you decided to drive like a maniac?
true enough.
i was thinking earlier that its part of the job to go to court. but o the other hand he wouldnt have been there if i didnt do it.
anyways, thanx for any info throughout the thread.
and no problem bout the document. i wouldn't have got through to the court if i didnt have that to go off of.
heres the link
Demerit Point Regulation |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by mikeylikesit
true enough.
i was thinking earlier that its part of the job to go to court. but o the other hand he wouldnt have been there if i didnt do it.
anyways, thanx for any info throughout the thread.
and no problem bout the document. i wouldn't have got through to the court if i didnt have that to go off of.
heres the link
Demerit Point Regulation
Yeah, I tracked it down myself after you gave me the name. Interesting stuff in there, thanks.
You have to remember to, that while the cop is paid regardless, court is an extra duty. They have to go to court on "days off", which means overtime pay. $300 might be cheap, depending on how long he's there for. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by fartcannon
YOU DO NOT NEED AT LEAST 7!!! you can take the course if you have zero and have negative 3 i am not even kidding. call and ask. they are good for a year if you dont use them. TRUST ME dont listen to this guy. he has no clue what he is talking about. seriously call ama tomorrow and talk to them yourself and see for yourself. i took it when i had only 6 demerits and now mine are at 3 so saying you need 7 is a joke. And when you attend the course and before they explain you can take it to have a drop in your insurance rates and have negative 3 demerits if you wish.
Now that I have a reference source, check out the Demerit Point Program...
quote:
Reducing novice driver’s demerit points
21(1) If a novice driver successfully completes a course that is satisfactory to the Registrar while that person has 7 demerit points or less on the person’s driving record, that person is entitled in the 2 years following completion of the course, to
(a) a 2‑demerit point reduction if the person has 2 demerit points on the person’s driving record, or
(b) a 3‑demerit point reduction if the person has 3 or more demerit points on the person’s driving record.
(2) A novice driver whose licence is suspended is entitled to deletion of the 3 demerit points, imposed when the licence is reinstated if, while the licence was suspended, the novice driver successfully completed a course that is satisfactory to the Registrar.
(3) If demerit points are reduced under subsection (1) or (2), no further demerit point reduction is permitted under this section until at least 2 years have passed from the date the demerit points were deleted from the notice driver’s driving record.
So no, you can't have 0 and get a reduction. If you have 2, you go to 0. If you have 3 or more, you're reduced by 3 demertis. |
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| dtjohnst |
| Double post, sorry. |
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