| High hp turbo car... Manual or Auto? - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| LeadSled |
If you had a car that was 60% street and 40% strip, which would you choose? I am having a hell of a time deciding here. I'm getting a 6.8L built and it'll be using dual ball bearing turbos (possibly GT3528R's or maybe GT40R's)
I could either get a heavily built T-56 with triple synchros and a kick ass cluch like a Textralia or Mcleod... Or I could go with a good OD auto like the 4L80E.
The pros to the manual are the fun aspect to rowing your own gears. I really enjoy shifting and I've drove two cars with the T-56 and over 500 crank hp, both were fun.
The cons are that its not going to lauch worth a shit. I won't be able to build decent boost and my ET is going to suck for my trap speed. Also, unloading the rear suspension on shifts makes handling harder. And the clutches won't last overly long.
With the auto you loose the stick rowing fun, but you can still have a FMVB or even electronic paddles so it won't be too bad. It will launch like a SOB, hold boost between shifts and generally haul ass.
Both are going to be around $4000 USD either way. |
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| Blackout |
you definetly came to the wrong forum for these answers
you have to think of what you're going to be doing with the car before you choose. are you going to be doing bracket racing? consistancy always wins there...automatic tranny will be very consistant compared to the manual
also like you mentioned you can build boost on the line, you will have to replace clutches on a constant basis...not to mention 1 clutch alone to handle massive horsepower is going to cost a fortune...where as a full out race converter should only run ya like 500-1000 depending where you go/what you want.
if the car is just going to be a straight line machine...automatic is the best choice...which is why top fuel dragsters and so on are all automatics |
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| LeadSled |
Its not going to be a straight line machine, I'm spending a fair amount of money on coilover IFS and a 3 link coilover rear so it'll be able to turn. Bracket racing doesn't interest me at all so absolute consistancy isn't a big goal. I expect to use it about 60% on the street and 40% in a straight line going fast.
I can make an automatic work in the corners but it just won't be as fun. There are paddle shift setups for the 4L80E controller which would make up some of the fun to drive difference, but there's just nothing like a 6 speed on the street.
I've read a ton on this topic but I still can't make up my mind... I need to order a trans hump for my floor pan because the car is getting chassis/body work done, therefore I need to know which trans I want. A few more opinions on the subject from this crowd sure won't hurt me right now. |
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| Fish_e_o |
i voted for auto
same reasons as above
you can always shift an auto too:dunno: |
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| ChromeDragon |
| If you're going for serious power you'll just be kicking yourself for going with a manual down the road as you burn out clutch after clutch after clutch. |
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| TrevorK |
My vote is automatic - if you're making serious power, you'll need it.
As well, with the T56 I assume you've driven a high-hp car with a Stage 3 (or higher) clutch? Some people have a really hard time getting used to it in city driving.
I didn't find it bad, but I've read a lot of people on the internet that absolutely hate it. |
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| ae1969 |
60% street and 40% strip.....
As has been mentioned auto is probably the way you want to go.
I am not sure what you have in mind if you plan on switching to IFS. On the street you will have no opportunity to take advantage of the new setup.......and if you plan on running the 1/4 you may as well stick with a solid rear. |
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| DarrylBleau |
Automatic, no question. As much as you'd enjoy the manual, I think you'll hate the headaches it's going to cause you more.
And CVT.. gimme a break :P |
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| sparkycivic |
| the lower gears will be useless with that much power, so basically the auto will have superior ET's, and it won't be such a handful to drive. |
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| tokes |
| We're putting an auto behind the motor in my Dad's roadrunner (470" short deck BBM stroker, indy 295CC heads, sheetmetal intake, megasquirt, solid roller, twin PT67's, so it shouldn't have any troubles making over 1000 to the rear) and it was a no brainer. I've talked to dozens of people with turbo cars making 600+ RWHP and they all agreed on an Auto. A standard sounds like fun, but everyone said that it unloads the suspension on shifts and is downright scary on the street. A well built 4L80E can take you deep 8's so they're strong as hell too. We're running a Rossler 4L80E with a brake. |
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| LeadSled |
quote:
Originally posted by ae1969
I am not sure what you have in mind if you plan on switching to IFS. On the street you will have no opportunity to take advantage of the new setup.......and if you plan on running the 1/4 you may as well stick with a solid rear.
The IFS is to replace the stock K frame and torsion bar front suspension. It drops about 120lbs, gives the car some pretty killer geometry and uses high end coilovers.
I am sticking with a solid rear but it will be on a 3-link setup + coilovers with a beefy sway, which is far superior to a leaf setup and especially a 4 link for lateral control... and it kills IRS for putting big power down, especially on launch.
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
My vote is automatic - if you're making serious power, you'll need it.
As well, with the T56 I assume you've driven a high-hp car with a Stage 3 (or higher) clutch? Some people have a really hard time getting used to it in city driving.
I didn't find it bad, but I've read a lot of people on the internet that absolutely hate it.
TrevorK, not sure how "stages" work with clutches, I assume its like how some people refer to different stages of turbo kits? (which I don't get either lol). But one was a Centerforce single plate and one was a Textralia single. The Textralia's are killer, they hold a TON of power (like 700rwhp) and have smooth engagement. Most real high HP clutches are an on/off switch with a lot of engagement shudder but both of these were fine, the Textralia being better. |
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| LeadSled |
Tokes, Rossler's are top notch, you and your dad's car is going to be killer. Low deck stroker Mopars have a killer rod/stroke ratio too, that engine is going to be nuts with twin PT67's :D
If you've got any pics of it you should send PM me, I love the B-bodies. |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by LeadSled
TrevorK, not sure how "stages" work with clutches, I assume its like how some people refer to different stages of turbo kits? (which I don't get either lol). But one was a Centerforce single plate and one was a Textralia single. The Textralia's are killer, they hold a TON of power (like 700rwhp) and have smooth engagement. Most real high HP clutches are an on/off switch with a lot of engagement shudder but both of these were fine, the Textralia being better.
Yeah - the stages might just be what the manufacturer calls them, you have the right idea with the on/off clutches.
It takes awhile to get used to. I don't mind them, but there are a lot of people who downright hate them for city driving. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
Exedy clutches are advertised as "street capable and high horspower holding, gentle clutch engagement" bla bla bla.
I can tell you as a fact they are just as on/off as other racing style hp clutches, but atleast he others didn't lie about the engagement.
I'd love to try an auto high hp car for a change. |
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| LeadSled |
I read about someone with an Exedy in a 402 turbo Holden and he had a terrible shudder on engagement too. He was one of the testers for the new Textralia's and he said the problem was fixed with it, so I don't know if they're all that way :dunno:
Thanks again for the input guys. I should just go with my gut and do the auto. |
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| tokes |
quote:
Originally posted by LeadSled
Tokes, Rossler's are top notch, you and your dad's car is going to be killer. Low deck stroker Mopars have a killer rod/stroke ratio too, that engine is going to be nuts with twin PT67's :D
If you've got any pics of it you should send PM me, I love the B-bodies.
I'll try and take some when it's back in more pieces, the body is off being sandblasted right now, so all we have is the chassis and a lot of loose parts. CCW is making the wheels right now (20" SP600's with gloss black centers) so we should maybe have it as a roller by the end of the winter. Havn't decided on much else yet, just that it's going to be 99.99% street with a lot of pro-touring style. Nice stereo, full interior, etc, etc. The turbos actually have the same footprint as a standard T3/TO4E turbo like you might find in a Honda drag kit. PTE built them with 1.06 A/R divided T3 turbine housings, a P-trim turbine wheel, ball bearings, and TO4E compressor housings. We wanted physically small turbos, because we're going to mount them in whe fender well area behind the front tires for a bit of a hidden sealth look, like what HP does on their C5 Corvette TT kits. |
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| LeadSled |
Holy shit, we must think alike. I am going to put my turbos there too. It keeps a lot of heat out of the engine bay as well and frees up some room. APS does it for all their systems too, the only downside I can see is they need an oil scavenging pump when their mounted that low and I'm not sure where my filters are going to go. But I am basically going to straight up copy an APS setup lol.
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/
The Sp600s are awesome too, what color is the car going to be?
And what are you guys doing for suspension? XV Motorsports has a killer 3 link setup, you might want to check that out for the rear. And an Alterktion is a great way to go for the front. |
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| TrevorK |
| What sort of fuel injection system are you guys using? Or are you going with a carb? |
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| LeadSled |
He's using Megasquirt. They are pretty easy to set up, all you need is cam position if you're using bank to bank injection I believe. If you go sequential I think you need a reluctor wheel on the crank (which you need anyway if you want programmable ignition).
I'll probably use Big Stuff 3 on mine, or some guys have even used a factory LS1's setup because the new Hemi and LS engines are fairly similar... then you just use LS edit or whatever. |
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| SketchifisT |
I assume your going for big power, so yes go for the automatic.
Like TrevorK , i was fine with a racing clutch , until stop and go rush hour and i was on a hill and everytime i gave someone room they took the spot, otherwise i loved it. However for everyday it may bug me. Just go auto , the fact is with huge power you will rip the clutch apart sometimes, and the frustration of that would push you over.
Automatic is the way to go |
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| Neo-Blue99GASE |
| What about the CVT's, ive heard some killer stuff about them, though I have no idea if they could hold the huge power numbers your talking about, so that is sketchy. I am kinda happy about this post though, most people understand the advantages of auto's. You ask many people and they will stay stick is the way to go because well "racers use manuals". |
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| mwdguy |
| manually shifted Auto |
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| Godzilla |
| as in one of them manumatic pos's. for Need For Speed sure, for a race car no. i've driven a few and im yet to be impressed. |
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| tokes |
Just got the V-bands, wiggins clamps, and merge collectors from Burns today! Excited to hopefully get the body back on the chassis and start mocking stuff up soon.
We were going to run MegaSquirt but decided to go with an AEM EMS at the last minute because it can control the 4L80E without having to buy a box to control it. As for suspension, we're definitely going with XV Motorsports :thumbup: |
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| mwdguy |
quote:
Originally posted by Godzilla
as in one of them manumatic pos's. for Need For Speed sure, for a race car no. i've driven a few and im yet to be impressed.
No a race built manually shifted auto. Like the big boys run ..
or just say fuck it and toss a glide in it |
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| LeadSled |
quote:
Originally posted by tokes
Just got the V-bands, wiggins clamps, and merge collectors from Burns today! Excited to hopefully get the body back on the chassis and start mocking stuff up soon.
We were going to run MegaSquirt but decided to go with an AEM EMS at the last minute because it can control the 4L80E without having to buy a box to control it. As for suspension, we're definitely going with XV Motorsports :thumbup:
Are you going with the Stage I or Stage II from XV?
And have you ever looked at the paddle shift setups for the GM electronic autos? Twist machine makes some nice ones, you can switch between TCM controlled shifts or paddle.
http://www.twistmachine.com
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