| cops searching car, and looking at tapes found in car?? - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| shawley |
Okay so is this legal for them to do with out me saying go ahead?
They come up to me in a parking lot tonight, and get my licence reg and all that stuff, then they open my passanger door and flip my passanger seat foward and see a camera there, they then say i'm taking this to see whats on it.
they then search my car, saying they are looking for "BOOZE" when my frined in another car heard the cops say "lets get the tapes and fuck them, then make them blow" (i wasn't drinking at all, had no booze in my car and i was doing nothing illegal, just sitting in a parking lot)
they then search my car find 3 cameras, 3 unoppened tapes, and one used tape marked "RACING" that tape contained drag racing from Castrol Raceway they soon found that out when they watched it.
i had nothing to worry about because i had no tapes with anything illegal on them, thats why i didn't really say no u can't search, but they never asked me and i never game them permission to search or look.
so are they allowed to look thru my car and take my cameras and watch them when they tell me they are looking for booze? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by shawley
Okay so is this legal for them to do with out me saying go ahead?
They come up to me in a parking lot tonight, and get my licence reg and all that stuff, then they open my passanger door and flip my passanger seat foward and see a camera there, they then say i'm taking this to see whats on it.
they then search my car, saying they are looking for "BOOZE" when my frined in another car heard the cops say "lets get the tapes and fuck them, then make them blow" (i wasn't drinking at all, had no booze in my car and i was doing nothing illegal, just sitting in a parking lot)
they then search my car find 3 cameras, 3 unoppened tapes, and one used tape marked "RACING" that tape contained drag racing from Castrol Raceway they soon found that out when they watched it.
i had nothing to worry about because i had no tapes with anything illegal on them, thats why i didn't really say no u can't search, but they never asked me and i never game them permission to search or look.
so are they allowed to look thru my car and take my cameras and watch them when they tell me they are looking for booze?
No. Even if they were looking for booze, they can't do that without your permission or a warrant either unless they had reasonable cause.....which is tricky to prove when it's booze. The rule of thumb is if it's not in plain sight, don't.
But they may be able to argue implied consent since you never asked what they were doing and told them not to. It all depends on who you hire as you lawyer and who's sitting in the judges chair......if you wanted to press charges for it I mean.
Incidently, sitting in a parking lot could be construed as trespassing if you weren't shopping at that store. So you may have been doing something illegal. A few places allow it, like Walmart, but most places don't. 75% of places security guards patrol are parkades and parking lots, and people who refuse to leave get to pay a $500 fine. |
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| Tech2 |
| Are you thinking of moving forward on this? You should talk to a lawyer and see what you can do. Illegal searches are extremely not cool. They ruin your night, and on a different occasion can give a sweet loophole for a real criminal to get away with something. |
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| Godzilla |
| shawn, that blows chunks man. did you at least get of scotch free or did they try a muffler ticket or something like that on you. |
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| midnite |
Nothing illegal was happening in the parking lot so there were no tickets, not even for an exhaust. We were parked there chatting like we always do at car meets and the police cars come in and block us and they ask for our id, insurance, and registration.
They saw all the cameras in shawns car and without concent started searching for tapes, but didnt find any. They then (also without concent) took the cameras to the police car and were trying to see what was on them, but only one had a tape and it was drag racing video from castrol.
When they found nothing illegal then they gave the cameras and ids back and told us to leave.
:dunno: |
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| shawley |
i'm not going after them this time
but just incase another time if i do have something on my cameras i don't want the police seeing or anything like that, how can i avoid them from doing it
i didn't get a exhaust ticket or anything like that, just banned from the said parking lot that we were in, and we were just sitting there, if we were doing anything else it wasn't even in that parking lot.
they had reports of cars doing donuts, so the imeditly went to the skyline, skyline, s2000, and lancer sitting in a parking lot waiting there doing nothing and started harrassing us. |
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| midnite |
It sounded like they were looking for a dodge sealth because they were asking where the stealth was, and there was no stealth with us that night.
Dtjohnst, do you happen to know the procedure to make a request to the EPS for the information collected and created regarding this incident?
This information should be available to individuals involved via Alberta's Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, correct? |
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| euro_fcuk |
Dont let these cops get away with this bs.
File a complaint the very least. |
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| Supra_devil |
| i would file a complaint at least. That search doesn't sound right at all. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Are you thinking of moving forward on this? You should talk to a lawyer and see what you can do. Illegal searches are extremely not cool. They ruin your night, and on a different occasion can give a sweet loophole for a real criminal to get away with something.
You're thinking US law. In Canada, while evidence found during an illegal search is general deemed inadmissable, it's not immediate grounds to have the case dismissed. Just like not being advised of your Charter 10 rights doesn't automatically mean you'll get off whereas in the states not being provided with Miranda Rights makes anything you said completely void.
quote:
Originally posted by shawley
i'm not going after them this time
but just incase another time if i do have something on my cameras i don't want the police seeing or anything like that, how can i avoid them from doing it
i didn't get a exhaust ticket or anything like that, just banned from the said parking lot that we were in, and we were just sitting there, if we were doing anything else it wasn't even in that parking lot.
they had reports of cars doing donuts, so the imeditly went to the skyline, skyline, s2000, and lancer sitting in a parking lot waiting there doing nothing and started harrassing us.
Unless you're video taping a criminal act, as in someone violating an indictable law, you have nothing to worry about. Like I said above, it's not automatic, but for anything less serious, with no cause, you'd win the case in a heartbeat, and probably be able to sue the city, police force and the officers in question for invasion of privacy and unlawful search, just as a start.
Again, you can't just sit in parking lots. That IS illegal. In fact, if there were more than 5 people present, not only were you technically trespassing, but you were involved in an unlawful gathering. Neither of which gives police the right to search you. And oddly enough, they can't charge you with trespassing. The owner or a representative of the owner has to do or inform the police themselves that they'd like that done.
If you heard about people cutting donuts, wouldn't you go for the skylines and lancer over the cavaliers? While they did was wrong, let's understand why they'd respond to that complaint by going straight to you.
quote:
Originally posted by midnite
It sounded like they were looking for a dodge sealth because they were asking where the stealth was, and there was no stealth with us that night.
Dtjohnst, do you happen to know the procedure to make a request to the EPS for the information collected and created regarding this incident?
This information should be available to individuals involved via Alberta's Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, correct?
It doesn't sound like there was a file opened, and the way Access to Information works on a federal level is that you have to know what it is you want, you can't ask for something generic like "everything containing my name". You'd have to say "I want file No 60-7815 because it pertains to me", and they'd confirm it did before releasing it.
Most likely all that exists is the notes from the officers, and they likely won't be very detailed. Car information, driver information. I doubt they'd record their unlawful search, but cops have made bigger mistakes.
quote:
Originally posted by Supra_devil
i would file a complaint at least. That search doesn't sound right at all.
I doubt a complaint will do much. I think it would get looked at, but it seems like if there was an in-car camera it was pointed away, and 1 person complaining won't accomplish much if they can't back it up. They'll likely talk to the officer and leave it at that.
I suggest you contact a lawyer via the free referral service. Normally I'm a big fan of letting cops do their jobs, and sometimes that means letting them bend the rules. But some things show a complete disregard for the public, lack of respect for the things they are trying to uphold. And privacy is one of them.
If there were 4 cars there who saw it, I would be very surprised if you'd be unable to find a criminal lawyer who'd kill to take your case. Might even find a lawyer who only gets paid if you win given the way this seems like such a slam dunk. The fact is, if you let them get away with it "this time", how many more times will they try it? How many times have they already done it?
They deserve to be nailed to a wall. Invasion of privacy is such a huge deal in my opinion. In fact, you aren't awarded privacy by a law, you're awarded it by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is 2nd in authority only to the Constitution of Canada. What they did is akin to arresting you for something, charging you, and then not allowing you to get a lawyer.
This is exactly the kind of thing that goes on in places like Zaire. Places run by authoritarian governments, dictators and warlords who rule by fear. Now maybe that's overly dramatic, but this type of action not only violates the very basis from which law enforcement derives it's authority and requests respect, but the very tenents upon which our society is founded.
You wouldn't walk away if they'd beat you, I wouldn't walk away now. Call the Alberta Law Society, get your free referals, and see what the lawyers say before you decide to leave it be. It's free afterall, and if you want to be selfish about it, you could get a boatload of money (a few thousand at least I'd think, probably more like 20 or 30 thousand.) |
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| EDISKRAD EHT |
Thats not right.
That makes the other Officers that go by the book look bad. If you are enforcing rules and laws, you should be following them yourself.
So did the Officers actually break a law by doing that? (Serious question) If so that's quite ironic. |
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| midnite |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
Unless you're video taping a criminal act, as in someone violating an indictable law, you have nothing to worry about. Like I said above, it's not automatic, but for anything less serious, with no cause, you'd win the case in a heartbeat, and probably be able to sue the city, police force and the officers in question for invasion of privacy and unlawful search, just as a start.
I'm curious.. lets say we were filming a voilation of the law and someone witnessed this and phoned it in to the police. Would that be sufficient grounds for the police to perform a search without concent, or would the officers have to actually witness it themselves?
Would they be able to search ourselves as well, or only the vehicle?
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
They deserve to be nailed to a wall. Invasion of privacy is such a huge deal in my opinion. In fact, you aren't awarded privacy by a law, you're awarded it by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is 2nd in authority only to the Constitution of Canada. What they did is akin to arresting you for something, charging you, and then not allowing you to get a lawyer.
This is exactly the kind of thing that goes on in places like Zaire. Places run by authoritarian governments, dictators and warlords who rule by fear. Now maybe that's overly dramatic, but this type of action not only violates the very basis from which law enforcement derives it's authority and requests respect, but the very tenents upon which our society is founded.
I very much agree with this. We were all kind of 'ok wtf is going on here.. this doesn't seem right' but I didn't feel like challenging the search because they seemed to enjoy the bullying, expecially after I heard one officer clearly say 'let's find the tapes and fuck them over, then make them blow [for alcohol].'
Obviously when they found no evidence they backed off. Nobody was given tickets, nobody was tested for alcohol. I still left with a feeling of violation, and my car wasn't even searched. |
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| keebler811 |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
Again, you can't just sit in parking lots. That IS illegal. In fact, if there were more than 5 people present, not only were you technically trespassing, but you were involved in an unlawful gathering. Neither of which gives police the right to search you. And oddly enough, they can't charge you with trespassing. The owner or a representative of the owner has to do or inform the police themselves that they'd like that done.
Lots of cops on the southside are in fact agents of the cineplex odeon in south common. I ran into a few this summer who showed me their letters from the theatre giving them agent status. They told me it was the theatre's response to all the tray drifting and whatnot that was going on a couple of summers ago. I guess it kind of sucks, but there are southside cops who can ban you from the theatre and parking lot, and charge you with tresspassing if you come back :dunno: |
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| shawley |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
You're thinking US law. In Canada, while evidence found during an illegal search is general deemed inadmissable, it's not immediate grounds to have the case dismissed. Just like not being advised of your Charter 10 rights doesn't automatically mean you'll get off whereas in the states not being provided with Miranda Rights makes anything you said completely void.
Unless you're video taping a criminal act, as in someone violating an indictable law, you have nothing to worry about. Like I said above, it's not automatic, but for anything less serious, with no cause, you'd win the case in a heartbeat, and probably be able to sue the city, police force and the officers in question for invasion of privacy and unlawful search, just as a start.
Again, you can't just sit in parking lots. That IS illegal. In fact, if there were more than 5 people present, not only were you technically trespassing, but you were involved in an unlawful gathering. Neither of which gives police the right to search you. And oddly enough, they can't charge you with trespassing. The owner or a representative of the owner has to do or inform the police themselves that they'd like that done.
If you heard about people cutting donuts, wouldn't you go for the skylines and lancer over the cavaliers? While they did was wrong, let's understand why they'd respond to that complaint by going straight to you.
It doesn't sound like there was a file opened, and the way Access to Information works on a federal level is that you have to know what it is you want, you can't ask for something generic like "everything containing my name". You'd have to say "I want file No 60-7815 because it pertains to me", and they'd confirm it did before releasing it.
Most likely all that exists is the notes from the officers, and they likely won't be very detailed. Car information, driver information. I doubt they'd record their unlawful search, but cops have made bigger mistakes.
I doubt a complaint will do much. I think it would get looked at, but it seems like if there was an in-car camera it was pointed away, and 1 person complaining won't accomplish much if they can't back it up. They'll likely talk to the officer and leave it at that.
I suggest you contact a lawyer via the free referral service. Normally I'm a big fan of letting cops do their jobs, and sometimes that means letting them bend the rules. But some things show a complete disregard for the public, lack of respect for the things they are trying to uphold. And privacy is one of them.
If there were 4 cars there who saw it, I would be very surprised if you'd be unable to find a criminal lawyer who'd kill to take your case. Might even find a lawyer who only gets paid if you win given the way this seems like such a slam dunk. The fact is, if you let them get away with it "this time", how many more times will they try it? How many times have they already done it?
They deserve to be nailed to a wall. Invasion of privacy is such a huge deal in my opinion. In fact, you aren't awarded privacy by a law, you're awarded it by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is 2nd in authority only to the Constitution of Canada. What they did is akin to arresting you for something, charging you, and then not allowing you to get a lawyer.
This is exactly the kind of thing that goes on in places like Zaire. Places run by authoritarian governments, dictators and warlords who rule by fear. Now maybe that's overly dramatic, but this type of action not only violates the very basis from which law enforcement derives it's authority and requests respect, but the very tenents upon which our society is founded.
You wouldn't walk away if they'd beat you, I wouldn't walk away now. Call the Alberta Law Society, get your free referals, and see what the lawyers say before you decide to leave it be. It's free afterall, and if you want to be selfish about it, you could get a boatload of money (a few thousand at least I'd think, probably more like 20 or 30 thousand.)
thanks for all your input
I have a few very very very HIGH UP criminal LAW lawyers that are close close family frineds and friends and co wokers of my parents, we will be talking with them as to what action we can take
last time something like this happened and i stood up for myself my car was impounded for 3 days and took soo much to get it out, and then all the charges they pressed against me were dropped ebcause they were false charges, that time i was actually sworen at by the officers of the north end EPS, some people might remeber my posts about that, but i will be talking to some lawyers and my uncle whos a high up EPS officer thats been on for force for like 20+ years, and talking to a few other people to see what we will do.
i'm not gonna settle for this for them to just do that and leave
i'm getting badge numbers this week and finding out my legal standpoint |
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| RoB |
I dont think they can do that. I got stopped on the highway by the RCMP, and they asked to search my car, I said fine, because there was nothing to find inside. They returned from their car and I signed a form stating I was giving them permission to search my car. The form also stated that I could revoke permission for them to search the vehicle at any time. It was the RCMP, might be different for city cops.
Again, nothing to find, so I didn't care if they searched it or not.
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by RoB
I dont think they can do that. I got stopped on the highway by the RCMP, and they asked to search my car, I said fine, because there was nothing to find inside. They returned from their car and I signed a form stating I was giving them permission to search my car. The form also stated that I could revoke permission for them to search the vehicle at any time. It was the RCMP, might be different for city cops.
Again, nothing to find, so I didn't care if they searched it or not.
The forms to be filled out might be different, but the law isn't. |
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| THUD |
Theses cops probaly were thinking that they could get you on something but the fact they did not have permission to search your car was just a bit much of an ego trip from them.
Maybe instead of suein them or causeing a big stink you should get hold of there commanding officer and have a sit down with him and maybe the cops too and tell them what they did was wrong and uncalled for, kinda show that being bully's and a bit over dominat is jsut not good and maybe get them in shit by doing it this way.
I stopped carring my video camera around after I got pulled over and harrsed about it for a good half hour and all that was on it was me pullin down my driveway and setting it up and I was told over and over how I should not have it in there and all that jazz and constanly told me that they could charge me with something.
I don't think it's right but they can do it. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by THUD
Theses cops probaly were thinking that they could get you on something but the fact they did not have permission to search your car was just a bit much of an ego trip from them.
Maybe instead of suein them or causeing a big stink you should get hold of there commanding officer and have a sit down with him and maybe the cops too and tell them what they did was wrong and uncalled for, kinda show that being bully's and a bit over dominat is jsut not good and maybe get them in shit by doing it this way.
I stopped carring my video camera around after I got pulled over and harrsed about it for a good half hour and all that was on it was me pullin down my driveway and setting it up and I was told over and over how I should not have it in there and all that jazz and constanly told me that they could charge me with something.
I don't think it's right but they can do it.
If it was a matter of a cop slightly overstepping his bounds, I'd agree. File a complaint and leave it at that. These officers obviously don't care, they blantantly disregarded one of the most sacred legal documents in Canada. I don't think a sit-down is quite enough. They'll get a slap on the wrists at best, and you'd become their prime target. It's obvious these particular officers don't care.
I'd definately file a complaint, but calling a lawyer is the best way to find out if you have any type of case, and if you do, it's something I think worthy of persuing. |
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| shawley |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
If it was a matter of a cop slightly overstepping his bounds, I'd agree. File a complaint and leave it at that. These officers obviously don't care, they blantantly disregarded one of the most sacred legal documents in Canada. I don't think a sit-down is quite enough. They'll get a slap on the wrists at best, and you'd become their prime target. It's obvious these particular officers don't care.
I'd definately file a complaint, but calling a lawyer is the best way to find out if you have any type of case, and if you do, it's something I think worthy of persuing.
we've already been in talks with the internal affairs office about another time something liek this happened to me where a cop on a power trip swore and insulted me and impounded my car for a uncalled for reason, and the insurance bureau of canada is on our side and wants to go after the EPS on our behalf,
so this just adds the shit we gotta deal with, but we know enough lawyers, and people in the gov't and the EPS that something will happen |
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| shawley |
also to add to this
one of the cameras they took to search
DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE, will not accept a tape anymore, it just won't load, they probaly tryed to jam the one tape they tryed to watch into there and fucked it over.
so now i gotta deal with that too
and cops telling you that you can't hold a camera in your car because it's illegal? wtf thats stupid, i always have a camera incase of a accident or anything, someone smoked my buddy pat's car, a a intersection so it was good i had my camera to go take pics and a little video of it,(cops also saw that footage on my camera lol) |
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| Buddyworm |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
Again, you can't just sit in parking lots. That IS illegal. In fact, if there were more than 5 people present, not only were you technically trespassing, but you were involved in an unlawful gathering.
Could you elaborate on this one a bit? Perhaps tell me which Act or Reg to read? It is my understanding that in a public venue like a mall or parking lot there is implied permission to be on the premisis and you only become a tresspasser if you are asked to leave and have refused.
Also elaborate on the unlawful gathering part. I was not even aware something like this existed. Which Act is this in?
B-Wurm :D |
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| Britain |
| I heard about that. They had reports of some g35 pulling mad drifts. Gl guys! Glad i left early! |
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| fartcannon |
| Good luck with the case shawn, that really sucks when cops do something like this. I had something similar like this happen to me when i was driving downtown. the difference i had no witnesses and no cameras. I was pulled over early in the morning for no reason, told to get out of the car, they searched it illegally and when i asked for a badge number they yelled at me to get back in my car and go home and then drove off. Honestly you need to do something about what happened because the EPS is so ridiculous right now. I have had way to many bad incidents with them and it seems alot of people on this forum have too. Good luck |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Could you elaborate on this one a bit? Perhaps tell me which Act or Reg to read? It is my understanding that in a public venue like a mall or parking lot there is implied permission to be on the premisis and you only become a tresspasser if you are asked to leave and have refused.
Trespass to Premises Act. A parking lot is assumed to exist to give people somewhere to park while visiting that establishment. Hanging around is trespassing. Otherwise, you wouldn't have to move when asked, but you are.
quote:
Also elaborate on the unlawful gathering part. I was not even aware something like this existed. Which Act is this in?
Bill C-46
quote:
63. (1) An unlawful assembly is an assembly of three or more persons who, with intent to carry out any common purpose, assemble in such a manner or so conduct themselves when they are assembled as to cause persons in the neighbourhood of the assembly to fear, on reasonable grounds, that they
(a) will disturb the peace tumultuously; or
(b) will by that assembly needlessly and without reasonable cause provoke other persons to disturb the peace tumultuously.
(2) Persons who are lawfully assembled may become an unlawful assembly if they conduct themselves with a common purpose in a manner that would have made the assembly unlawful if they had assembled in that manner for that purpose.
(3) Persons are not unlawfully assembled by reason only that they are assembled to protect the dwelling-house of any one of them against persons who are threatening to break and enter it for the purpose of committing an indictable offence therein.
Cutting donuts and whatnot could be deemed disturbing the peace, and persons in the neighborhood (ie old annoying people) might be more picky than you. |
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| snugs |
| Damn.... they're going to know you on a first name basis down at city hall after this go round. That's rediculous. |
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| silvia s13 |
quote:
Originally posted by euro_fcuk
Dont let these cops get away with this bs.
File a complaint the very least.
X1000000 |
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| Buddyworm |
Ah, thank you Sir dtjohnst. Seems to me that the cops would have a hard time making unlawful assembly stick unless they had a witness or two who had actually SEEN what was going on. The mere fact that the people assembled are "car guys" doesn't strike me as sufficient evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they were the ones responsible for the purported "donuts". (Reality of the situation notwithstanding :p )
B-Wurm :D |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Buddyworm
Ah, thank you Sir dtjohnst. Seems to me that the cops would have a hard time making unlawful assembly stick unless they had a witness or two who had actually SEEN what was going on. The mere fact that the people assembled are "car guys" doesn't strike me as sufficient evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they were the ones responsible for the purported "donuts". (Reality of the situation notwithstanding :p )
B-Wurm :D
If they received a complaint, someone did "see". And as I said, it's enough for them to come out, say "Move", and if you don't, get a nice $500 fine. But it's not enough to start rooting around through your things, even if you were possibly engaged in an unlawful gathering or trespassing.
The approach that should be taken, given how it's a "victimless" crime when you're just in a parking lot, is that once you leave, the problem is solved. So "hey guys, what's up?" "Just chillin'" "Can you take it somewhere else?" "Yeah, we'll move on." "Thanks." Problem solved. |
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| 180sxforthewin |
| ON a similar note. If your trunk is locked and they are searching your car. You dont need to open it until they produce a warrant right? |
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| WorkInProgress |
| It's been like a month, where's the update? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by 180sxforthewin
ON a similar note. If your trunk is locked and they are searching your car. You dont need to open it until they produce a warrant right?
I'm confused. If they're searching your car, you gave them permission. The trunk isn't a seperate entity. If there's a trunk-release latch or button they can press it and go in and it wouldn't 'cause any legal issues. Also, if you gave them permission to search your car, why raise a stink if they ask to go into your trunk? To me, that would seem VERY suspicious. I'd get the impression you aren't exercising rights, you're hiding whatever is in your trunk, if you were exercising rights, you wouldn't have let me search your car.
Having said that, you can end a voluntary search anytime you want. You're entitled to "change your mind" so to speak. Just say "You know what? I've changed my mind. I no longer consent to any searches. Please stop and get out of my vehicle."
Although what I would say is if there's any part of your car you don't want searched, whether it's locked or otherwise seals from most of the car, don't consent to any search of anything. Like I said, it looks suspicious. If you let them go through your bag but not you're car, I'd see that as a little suspicious too.
Now, would I try to get a warrant in that case? And if I did, would I be able to be successful? Probably not. But it's generally best not to make anyone suspicious. Besides, it's your right to not consent to being searched. It isn't hiding anything, it's appreciating your privacy. Most officers understand that. Sure, they play games to try and catch you doing things sometimes, but I know I never got mad when someone beat me at the game and didn't let me search. |
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