| 95EagleAWD |
| I'll always consider myself lucky that I'm healthy and able, and, for a while anyways, young, but I'll be damned if I ever feel guilty about working my ass off to afford the things I want. |
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| dance_of_curse |
quote:
Originally posted by 95EagleAWD
I'll always consider myself lucky that I'm healthy and able, and, for a while anyways, young, but I'll be damned if I ever feel guilty about working my ass off to afford the things I want.
as i see it...anyoen can get a job i applied at the plumbers union today hopefully im going up north on sunday so i can work for 4 months and make more money in that 4 months then at a shit job in a year. poorer people usually liek to smoke drink and do drugs. no one forces them to take that over shelter and a better life. well in canada that is. the 3rd world is understandable why they cant but here...everyone has the possibility to do what they wont..i think its mainly cause people settle for the less. |
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| ehos |
Sorry guys, the point isn't to make anyone feel guilty about, well, anything. Just read it, and you can feel what you want to feel (or nothing at all, it's all good).
Just posted it as something to add to widen our paradigms. |
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| LeadSled |
| Yeah fuck those bums in Edmonton feeling all sorry for themselves, they'd be upper-middle class Nigerians! I'm going to start telling them that when they ask for money. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by dance_of_curse
as i see it...anyoen can get a job i applied at the plumbers union today hopefully im going up north on sunday so i can work for 4 months and make more money in that 4 months then at a shit job in a year. poorer people usually liek to smoke drink and do drugs. no one forces them to take that over shelter and a better life. well in canada that is. the 3rd world is understandable why they cant but here...everyone has the possibility to do what they wont..i think its mainly cause people settle for the less.
Posted by someone who wasn't alive during the 'bust' years in Edmonton. |
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| dance_of_curse |
| does it matter my age..i know tons of "homeless" kids...mainly by choice cause they are rebeling and angry at their parents. i tell them to gtfo. and suck it up |
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| STiPWR |
I've lived in my POS car, Now I own a new house and a nice car. If a 16 year old highschool dropout can do it, anyone can.
Its Alberta, there are plenty of job opportunities.
The problem with the BUMS is this:
A) have too much "Pride" to settle for a shitty job.
B) Dont want to work to pay child support cause they dont own up to their own actions.
C) Enjoy pity and charity
D) Are full out fucking lazy.
E) No self dignity
My Parents let a lady sleep in our barn (no animals) when I was younger. The barn had drywall, rooms and heat btw.
She stayed there all summer, going out on her bike during the day along the highway to collect bottles/cans.
When Fall came around she said she had to leave, My parents asked her why.. She replied well, I have to get back to work.
My parents are like ...... uhmmm work?what do you do?
she replied.......I'm a Prof at the university. I choose to live my summers like this. No responsibility, no pressure etc.
AND WE GAVE HER FUCKING CHARITY.
I've offered a full Mcdicks meal "untouched" to a homeless person on whyte who was holding up a sign "Hungry need money" or something along those lines.
I offered the full meal, she made a disgusted face and said "ewww"
Same thing at Deep Dish, I offered an untouched slice to a bum pushing a shopping cart... He says, I dont like pinnaple.
I offered a full smoke to a guy picking up butts at the courthouse, just to save him some embarrassement and hopefully watch him enjoy it..
He just puts it in his pocked and keeps picking through the ashtrays.
So yeah, I dont pity the homeless, nor will I try to help them out.
They live on the street because they choose to. |
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| Tech2 |
| Anyone have thoughts on the fact that Canada (and other northern countries) simply cannot support third world scale poverty? If people here were say, central american or african type poor, they'd be dead by their first november. |
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| STiPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Anyone have thoughts on the fact that Canada (and other northern countries) simply cannot support third world scale poverty? If people here were say, central american or african type poor, they'd be dead by their first november.
I think that if we stopped our insane welfare and homeless support, these BUMS would actually be motivated to go work.
I dont know about you.. but if I lived in canada and was living in a box, once november rolled around I'd be like...... Hey Maybe I should go Make some Money!?!? or I'm going to fucking die. |
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| STiPWR |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Posted by someone who wasn't alive during the 'bust' years in Edmonton.
and its not the 80's anymore. There is quite a difference in job and wage opportunities from then and now. |
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| dtjohnst |
If you ever get a chance to go out and MEET the homeless, I think you might look at things differently.
98% of them are lazy degenerates. They're unwanted everywhere because they have no respect. If it's -30 and a bum wants to sit in Subway, 20 minutes later when you kick them out the table they were at is a complete mess. Newspapers strewn all over the place, garbage piled up, it's disgusting. There was nothing I loved more than letting my dog get all riled up to the point the bums were so scared they'd take off running across the parking lot and forget their bag full of clothes behind.
Ungrateful, disrespectful, lazy and dirty.
But if you're around bums enough, you meet the other 2%. The 2% who could be any one of us. The 2% who when offered food, try to insist they earn it by cleaning your shoes with their sleeve or something and thank you every 2 minutes for the next hour while they scarf it down. And if you're around them even longer, that 2% might actually tell you their stories about how they came to be homeless.
For some it's an addiction problem, sometimes one they've since kicked but are having problems getting back on their feet. Some made big mistakes when they were younger, ruined their credit, declared bankruptcy, got evicted, had no family and ended up on the steet. Since then they've been beaten senseless so many times they can barely stand for 20 minutes at a time before they get the shakes so they can't even work entry level jobs stacking tires or running wires, let alone frying up burgers.
Those 2% are, for the most part, decent folks who became victims of a society that caters to the rich and scoffs at helping those in need. And it's the other 98% who ruin it for them. If it weren't for the 98% of useless, disrespectful fucks, those 2% would have no problems finding support getting back on their feet. But we're all so tired of that 98% we can't be bothered to listen.
After working the downtown core for 6 months in the dead of winter, I no longer refuse to give up spare change to a bum who asks and isn't drunk, stoned or rude when he does it. I won't give them a bill, but I'll give them my change. If it's cold and it's outside a convenience store, I'll buy them a coffee. The bottom line is I can afford a few cents once or twice a month (I live in the south end and never go downtown anymore so I don't get bugged much) so I have no problem giving it up. Maybe they're useless, lazy, disrespectful fucks. But maybe not.
The only other time I refuse to give up money is when I'm blatantly lied to. "We just came in from Rainbow Lake and need gas money to get home. I'm not a bum I swear. I work at blah blah blah" and they give you their whole life story complete with names of their bosses, phone numbers, everything. I usually ask to see the registration in their car, they get mad and leave.
I'm not saying everyone should always give whenever they see a bum, or that people should do it from time to time. I just think people should at least realize that some people are in a bad place because of a few bad decisions that any of us could make given the right situation. |
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| ehos |
I guess I'm swayed by that 2% (totally made up statistics are great aren't they?).
I'm a sucker, if someone asks me for money, I give it. Because honestly, I don't give a shit. GO buy alcohol (I never drink) or smoke (I don't smoke). If my little contribution gives ANY measure of joy/happiness to someone, man, it's WELL worth it.
People don't give money to 'bums' because they think they'll just 'waste it' on drugs/alcohol and it won't help them. Who the fuck cares? Who made you god? If you don't want to give them money, don't, it's your choice, but don't be fucking holier than thou and make a federal case about helping society, doing the right thing, or other nonsense.
But, the way I see it, it's nothing to me, but it might be something to someONE else (gosh, a real human being!), so open up those dusty wallets and let a little out. It's not going to kill you.
I posted a thread (well, many threads) about trying to get people to do something good with their $400/King Ralph cash. Whoa, bad bad idea! People would rather blow that money than even THINK about helping anyone else but themselves (not even DO something, just simple THINK about it).
People are good at making money (easiest thing in the world, a monkey can make money). In fact, a monkey has made more money than everyone posting on this thread (it's true!). But when it comes to actually HELPING, jeez, we're the worst.
Case in point. The worlds second richest man is a genius at making money. But when it comes to helping people. He's an idiot. He gave all his cash, to .. drum roll. The first richest man (wow, that was smart). |
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| ehos |
Holy shit dt, we just agreed on something.
:blue:
(Long time no bouncey blue ball...) |
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| STiPWR |
I had a bum ask me for money outside of city center when I was standing there with the old lady...
I replied. "no i only have debit, sorry"
He turns to my old lady and says "slut" to her face.
I didnt want to beat up a bum in daylight in a public area, so I just walked inside... |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by STiPWR
He turns to my old lady and says "slut" to her face.
That's the other reason why I just hand the cash over. It's never, ever going to be worth the response (from the 'bum').
(Yeah yeah, I know, some of those 'bums' probably have 10 times the money I do... oh well.) |
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| Flip |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
...People are good at making money (easiest thing in the world, a monkey can make money). In fact, a monkey has made more money than everyone posting on this thread (it's true!). But when it comes to actually HELPING, jeez, we're the worst...
In all seriousness, who's the monkey? |
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| CharlesM |
quote:
Originally posted by Flip
In all seriousness, who's the monkey?
lol Curious George? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
Holy shit dt, we just agreed on something.
:blue:
(Long time no bouncey blue ball...)
Is it too late to change my vote? |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by Flip
In all seriousness, who's the monkey?
It might be stock 'legend'. But supposedly (it's a text book example I was taught in University), 2 wise men took the picks of a monkey and made millions.
(Technically, the monkey made millions). Literally, a monkey has made more money than anyone of us ever has or will. (But then again, that monkey had alot of equity behind him..). |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by STiPWR
I had a bum ask me for money outside of city center when I was standing there with the old lady...
I replied. "no i only have debit, sorry"
He turns to my old lady and says "slut" to her face.
I didnt want to beat up a bum in daylight in a public area, so I just walked inside...
I don't see why it matters - if someone who I do not know (And odds are they have some sort of mental condition, drug induced or not) comes up to me and calls me a name ( or my girlfriend ) I really don't give a shit. Why would I waste my time and effort to give them the satisfaction of getting angry?
I have better things to do with my time than play with a mentually disturbed individual.
In the end the bum will be more upset at your lack of attention to them than anything else. |
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| ChromeDragon |
98% of homeless are lazy? Me thinks your stats are a bit skewed. A large chunk of homeless people are mentally ill and unable to function in normal society. Many of them are homeless because the closing of hospital beds has forced them onto the streets instead of in a facility receiving the help they need to carry on a normal life ... or as normal as possible for them.
I have worked with these people in the past and I still help some of the people involved with my mother's OCD support group now. Yes many of them are too proud to take handouts and end up on the street because of this. But even the people living on AISH often end up on the streets because they just can't afford to live in this city or province any longer. I know I would have a hell of a time surviving on $800 a month.
For anyone that would be interested in sitting in on one of these support groups and finding out a little bit about what many of these people that end up on the streets have to deal with feel free to shoot me a PM. They hold the meetings every second Wednesday.
I can guarantee that you'll never look at mentally ill or homeless people the same way after you leave that meeting. |
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| liveforspd |
quote:
Originally posted by TrevorK
In the end the bum will be more upset at your lack of attention to them than anything else.
x2 i will never give a bum the time of day |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
Yes many of them are too proud to take handouts and end up on the street because of this. But even the people living on AISH often end up on the streets because they just can't afford to live in this city or province any longer. I know I would have a hell of a time surviving on $800 a month.
I can guarantee that you'll never look at mentally ill or homeless people the same way after you leave that meeting.
Same with the schizophrenia groups.
Where I work I get a nice mix of homeless types. Some are cool, though down for the moment and just want a shot at working. Some of these promptly fuck it up.
The drug types have their different levels too. Heroin guys keep breaking into the drug store, alcoholics just want change for a Big Bear, and the gasoline sniffers with only 15 seconds of short term memory left don't know what the fuck's going on beyond food, waste, and getting high.
The mentally ill guys are a way different sort. One guy managed to hide out on the top floor of the building for a few days, and left some seriously messed up messages and art on the walls. Stuff about US army experiments with hallucinogenic mind control, and pictures of birds on fire. One time I found a huge collection of weird articles of garbage, stuff not exactly useless, but nothing you'd want to hold on to, like old toothbrushes, plastic containers, small boxes, and pieces of thread and string. For these guys, it's just not a question of "Hey the economy is so great anyone can get a job". These guys need support.
But like mentioned before, the asshole jerk in-your-face gimme your change types take up most of people's patience, and the people who could really benefit from some help stay fucked. It sucks. |
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| SilverZ24 |
| I personally think it is much better to give your money to a charity than directly to the "bums". I like to know that my money is going to a charity that provides hot meals, clothing, and temporary shelter to the "bums". As an added bonus I get a tax receipt for it too. Sure some of the money in charities goes to overhead, but with the tax receipt I can afford to give a lot more than if I just want to hand out cash to anyone that asks for it on the street. Plus I don't want to ever contribute to someones drug or alcohol addiction even if it does make them happy for a few minutes because it isn't helping the problem. Food, clothing and shelter lasts a lot longer than a buzz. |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverZ24
I personally think it is much better to give your money to a charity than directly to the "bums". I like to know that my money is going to a charity that provides hot meals, clothing, and temporary shelter to the "bums". As an added bonus I get a tax receipt for it too. Sure some of the money in charities goes to overhead, but with the tax receipt I can afford to give a lot more than if I just want to hand out cash to anyone that asks for it on the street. Plus I don't want to ever contribute to someones drug or alcohol addiction even if it does make them happy for a few minutes because it isn't helping the problem. Food, clothing and shelter lasts a lot longer than a buzz.
This is why my donations go to the United Way. With working downtown I'm hassled constantly for change, but I don't give it out. I've given many bus tickets to people asking for bus fare, bought the guy sitting outside Quiznos all the time soup and chili, but I won't give actual money.
I've had situations in the past where people get mad at you for giving a bus ticket when they ask for change for the bus and that annoys me. The worst was a guy trying to sell parking passes that he had bought from the Impark machines near my work. He gave me this long story about his credit card not working at the bank or bus station and him just wanting to raise some money for a Greyhound ticket. It took me about four seconds to realize that he was obviously using a stolen credit card to buy the tickets.
Many of these people are so far lost into their addictions that they really don't care about themselves or anyone else. All they can think about is the next high. I can't imagine what a hopeless feeling that must be. |
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| ehos |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
Many of these people are so far lost into their addictions that they really don't care about themselves or anyone else. All they can think about is the next high. I can't imagine what a hopeless feeling that must be.
I feel the same way about people that drink. People call it 'social' drinking, but why would you want to give up the best part of yourself (your brain/self control) to interact with other humans? (That's my personal opinion, but..)
If another human being wants a hit, so be it. Here's $5, be on your way if that's what's going to help you cope.
There's no difference between a guy drinking a beer 'to relax' or party or whatever, and the guy on the street trying to get a fix. It's just peoples own personal judgements that say, 'oh he's a crack bum, but me, I use this drink to relax socially'.
GTFO, it's the same shit. Get off your high horses. |
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| n0c7 |
Yesterday I was out celebrating V-Day with the girlfriend, dinner at Moxies by Kingsway. We just finished our meal, paid, and walked out to the car. As soon as we got into the car a guy walks over and starts banging on the passenger window. I roll it down a crack to hear what he has to say. Of course, he wants spare change. I told him I didnt have any, which I didn't, and he asks my girlfriend who also says no, which she didn't either. I roll up the window, he walks a few feet away, comes back, and starts BANGING on the window. I roll it down, a crack again, and he starts drooling and ranting and said something like "you give money to crackheads but not to *something slurred* fuck" I roll up the window, put the car in reverse, and by now hes running back up to the car banging again. He throws his toque off and starts wailing his arms.
I'm sure most people would have jumped out and beat him dead, or close. For one, I don't want Hepatitis or AIDS from this drooling degenerate. Second, for those who know where I work, I simply cannot do things like that.
I've worked and went to school since I was 15, and even before that I was able to make money doing computer work and other odd jobs. I was brought up into a world where money was tight, but made it through. So even IF I had spare change, why would I give it to someone who acts like this?
Someone close to me works at the Law Courts, and there is a constant hobo flow in that building. Let me tell you, I gladly paint them with the same brush.
Oh, which reminds me a few years back. I was at the CIBC bank machine at Northtown Mall. A lady who looked genuinely down on her luck gave me her sob story and I gave her $5. Next week, at the same place and time, she was there and asked me again, this time with a totally different story. I refused this time. Next week again, there she was, with yet another different story. |
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| n0c7 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
I feel the same way about people that drink. People call it 'social' drinking, but why would you want to give up the best part of yourself (your brain/self control) to interact with other humans? (That's my personal opinion, but..)
If another human being wants a hit, so be it. Here's $5, be on your way if that's what's going to help you cope.
There's no difference between a guy drinking a beer 'to relax' or party or whatever, and the guy on the street trying to get a fix. It's just peoples own personal judgements that say, 'oh he's a crack bum, but me, I use this drink to relax socially'.
GTFO, it's the same shit. Get off your high horses.
Totally different. Addicts for the most part are not in their right mind. They do things they feel they have to. Who breaks into cars stranded on Highway 2 due to a Tow Ban in -30C weather? Someone who chooses to do it socially? No. We who choose to have a beer on the weekend choose to, we don't do it because our mind and bodys say we have to. |
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| ae1969 |
I am curious to see how one defines an individual as a bum?
Ehos statement of not passing judgment is a fair one. IT is extremely difficult not to do........but fair nonetheless.
The question you have to ask.........are you a bum?
If I were to pay 100K in taxes a year.........am I subsidizing all the bums that earn an income of 30-60K a year?
There is no possible way that an individual that only earns 30-60K could actually provide a positive monetary benefit to our society?????
The assumption that you have a job and roof over your head does not exempt you from not being classified a bum.
In someones eyes you may not be any less of a bum than the guy asking for a quarter on jasper.
Just my 2 cents........ |
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| Tech2 |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
I feel the same way about people that drink. People call it 'social' drinking, but why would you want to give up the best part of yourself (your brain/self control) to interact with other humans? (That's my personal opinion, but..)
If another human being wants a hit, so be it. Here's $5, be on your way if that's what's going to help you cope.
There's no difference between a guy drinking a beer 'to relax' or party or whatever, and the guy on the street trying to get a fix. It's just peoples own personal judgements that say, 'oh he's a crack bum, but me, I use this drink to relax socially'.
GTFO, it's the same shit. Get off your high horses.
Nope, it's totally different. A guy sleeping in a bus shelter because he spent every dime on crack is totally not the same as someone having a drink at the bar friday after work. One guy has a drink. The drink has the other guy.
Giving out 5 bucks to a street guy so he can lay into a bottle of chinese cooking wine is not the right approach, but it's not exactly the wrong idea either. There are alcohol programs for alcoholics where the people get 3 or 4 drinks provided free per day that have been very successful in terms of earned income, housing, and life expectancy. Methadone programs have also showed success of controlling addiction to heroin. These are programs designed and run by trained psychologists and have expectations as well as free hits. Of course, it's a tough sell for most of the public to provide money for an alcohol control program, even though it's a much cheaper and more effective solution in the long run. Goes back to the issue of asshole jerks ruining our patience for people with problems. |
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| ehos |
You're saying one man's recreation is more valid than one man's lifestyle? Come on.
Drinking to get a buzz is the same for both people. The 'bum' and the 'moral majority social drinker.' It's irrelevant the excess, the excuses or semantics of it.
See how easy people make distinctions between themselves and others. One guy is labeled a 'bum', and the other guy is just a normal hard working dood having a beer.
I agree 100% with ae1969. If you're 'just' making 40K a year, why should my extra taxes (I won't say how much more) should support your 'lazy' ass? Work hard you bums, my higher taxes are paying MORE for the social/economic network of Canada.
(See the difference? It's the same ridiculous comparison, instead of money, I substitute drugs/alcohol). |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
You're saying one man's recreation is more valid than one man's lifestyle? Come on.
Drinking to get a buzz is the same for both people. The 'bum' and the 'moral majority social drinker.' It's irrelevant the excess, the excuses or semantics of it.
See how easy people make distinctions between themselves and others. One guy is labeled a 'bum', and the other guy is just a normal hard working dood having a beer.
I agree 100% with ae1969. If you're 'just' making 40K a year, why should my extra taxes (I won't say how much more) should support your 'lazy' ass? Work hard you bums, my higher taxes are paying MORE for the social/economic network of Canada.
(See the difference? It's the same ridiculous comparison, instead of money, I substitute drugs/alcohol).
I think people make the distinction because they have the financial means to be a social drinker whereby the homeless do not. Therefore, they look down on the homeless because they can not afford to be drinking all the time, whereas they have the financial ability to do it nightly.
I would assume that it's not that they are drinking, but that they have no money as it is, and what little they have they spend on alcohol (or that's their impression). Therefore, they look down on them because alcohol is not a necessity in life and they should focus on purchasing food/clothing instead. |
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| Tech2 |
Ehos, I'm going to assume you mean that there is little distinction between a rich guy who has a couple drinks and a poor guy who does. That would make sense. It could even make sense (though I'd still disagree with you) to say that a rich alcoholic is the same as a poor one.
But where you are out to lunch is the difference between a social drinker (who by definition has a couple drinks now and again with friends) and a homeless alcoholic who can't afford winter boots because he'd rather have cooking sherry for breakfast. The guys begging you for money are not using that 5$ for a nice little cocktail at the bar, he's getting any alcohol he can find so he doesn't get the shakes.
It's not saying the homeless alcoholic is a bad person, but it's pretty clear he has a lower quality and standard of living, as well as a much reduced life expectancy. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Tech2
Ehos, I'm going to assume you mean that there is little distinction between a rich guy who has a couple drinks and a poor guy who does. That would make sense. It could even make sense (though I'd still disagree with you) to say that a rich alcoholic is the same as a poor one.
But where you are out to lunch is the difference between a social drinker (who by definition has a couple drinks now and again with friends) and a homeless alcoholic who can't afford winter boots because he'd rather have cooking sherry for breakfast. The guys begging you for money are not using that 5$ for a nice little cocktail at the bar, he's getting any alcohol he can find so he doesn't get the shakes.
It's not saying the homeless alcoholic is a bad person, but it's pretty clear he has a lower quality and standard of living, as well as a much reduced life expectancy.
I think the bigger question (though perhaps not the one Ehos is making) is why. Lots of normal, decent, hardworking people end up addicted to bad substances and lose it all. Usually not for no reason, it's usually because some traumatic experience fucks them up. To me that's the key. Anyone one of us could end up in that same position, ESPECIALLY any of us who do tend to "abuse" substances (smoke weed regularly, get drunk regularly, whatever). Everyone's quick to pass judgement, and I have no problems doing it myself when the bum is obviously rude, disruptive or disrespectful. But not everyone begging for money should automatically be deemed as beneath us. There's 2 sides to every story, including why buddy is on the street corner. |
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| ehos |
I'll admit it, I'm a buddist. In the last life, or the next one, I'm coming back as a 'bum.'
When I ask you for change, slip me a fiver and let me get my high alright? It's not gonna kill you.
And in the past life, or the next, when you come back as a 'bum', guess what, I got your back. Next hit's on me, no judgments, no worries.
:blue: |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by ehos
I feel the same way about people that drink. People call it 'social' drinking, but why would you want to give up the best part of yourself (your brain/self control) to interact with other humans? (That's my personal opinion, but..)
If another human being wants a hit, so be it. Here's $5, be on your way if that's what's going to help you cope.
There's no difference between a guy drinking a beer 'to relax' or party or whatever, and the guy on the street trying to get a fix. It's just peoples own personal judgements that say, 'oh he's a crack bum, but me, I use this drink to relax socially'.
GTFO, it's the same shit. Get off your high horses.
Well if someone came up to me in the bar asking for me to buy them a drink I wouldn't be doing that either.
There is a distinct difference though. Having a couple of drinks to relax and unwind is nothing like drinking anything you can get your hands on just so you can get fucked up. |
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