| Andrew415 |
Anyone have any input on online degree's , Specifically athabasca? I dont have very good grades but I heard online has lower requirments, I want to take a 4 year degree only because I am working towards becomming a pilot..
I need to be competitive in the job market so it will look good and give me something to fall back on..
Any tips? Suggestions, past history or information with distant learning? |
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| TrevorK |
Athabasca is recognized by all employers I've talked to, and is recognized for transfer credit at many other universities.
As well, they also have 3 year degrees as well in some fields. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew415
Anyone have any input on online degree's , Specifically athabasca? I dont have very good grades but I heard online has lower requirments, I want to take a 4 year degree only because I am working towards becomming a pilot..
I need to be competitive in the job market so it will look good and give me something to fall back on..
Any tips? Suggestions, past history or information with distant learning?
Utah Valley State College has a degree program where you get credit for your flying time and ratings and everything else is done online. It's a complete joke and it's real easy, and it's recognized as an actual college and certified for an international certifying agency (don't remember which one now).
Any degree from any online college will always carry less weight than the real thing though. Something you might want to consider however: these days most flying jobs don't give a shit about a degree. WestJet is short, AirCanada is short, KFC is short, FedEx is short, etc. Entry level jobs now (if you don't go via flight instructing) are almost all internal hires now. Wanna fly bush? Work on the dock for a year. One of the best ways into aviation used to be the small airlines with low insurance requirements that provided multi-turbine IFR time. Perimeter Airlines being one of the most prominent. I worked on the ramp after I did my Group 1 there. They where the last of the low time shecule jobs I knew of that switched to internal hires only a few months after I left.
The problem is they'd get 400 applications a year from pilots, and couldn't keep the ramp staffed. Now that things are sorted out and the market has recovered from 9/11, they're still finding this system to be beneficial and I don't expect it to change.
A degree won't help you land that ramp job. At all. They don't even look at education when hiring for those. In fact, if you aren't buddies with someone already working the ramp, you're fucked. When I quit, I got my buddy to take my spot. I was part time on the weekends, he did that for 3 weeks and got a full time spot (I hadn't wanted one). 4 months later he got his girlfriend a job there. A year later he did their groundschool and was one of the 4 hired. After she'd been there 14 months she did the groundshool and got hired.
There was 5 guys working the ramp when I was there with degrees (out of 20), and another 10 with college diplomas. 4 guys with diploma's and none with degrees were invited to the groundschool, the 5 without did get invited. Getting your invitation to groundschool is based on what the pilots think of you (mostly the senior captains and chief pilot but word spreads from the junior guys too), what the cargo supervisor thinks of you, and what you've been doing with your life. If you got a degree and are so deep in debt you haven't flown in the past 2 years except to keep current, it hurts your chances. If you still fly regularly, it helps A LOT.
Getting past that first job is all a matter of experience. Most people won't leave their first Sched job unless it's for the balls: a regional airline or something like that. Which means ATPL, lots of IFR, lots of Multi. Usually it's after they've done a bag run or something for their in-house company to get PIC hours up and build those commanding a crew from the left seat. And a guy with more hours and more experiene will always get the job.
A degree gives you a leg up if you're only competition has similar experience as you. And if he has a degree from a real university, you're blown out of the water. But things like volunteering and community experience (I mean aviation community: refueling, ramp, dispatcher, ATC experience, helping out at Aviation Council meetings, etc) will serve you much better.
That's my 2 cents at least. I personally don't think a degree is worth it if you're just getting something generic to have a degree. If you're getting it for a fall back plan as well in case aviation doesn't work it, it might just be the smartest thing you can do. |
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| Andrew415 |
Thanks alot for your reply
Also what do you think about financing, Right now im not in school I am just working, I just want to take a flight training course via a Flight Club privatly
I only have my GED (Whoops) and just moved from Ontario
What is the likelyhood of getting a loan for such amount? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew415
Thanks alot for your reply
Also what do you think about financing, Right now im not in school I am just working, I just want to take a flight training course via a Flight Club privatly
I only have my GED (Whoops) and just moved from Ontario
What is the likelyhood of getting a loan for such amount?
You can get loans for flight training. The government has requirements (like your savings, family income if you're younger, etc) and banks will lilely want a cosignor, but it's not impossible. I have friends who're $65k into debt for flight training.
I'll give you a warning though: I've been involved in aviation for about 8 years in various capacities, it's a very cuthrhroat business where even pilots are treated like shit until you reach the top. Expect 10-15 years of absolute bullshit unless you can land a cushy medivac job or something that you really love.
You looking fixed wing or rotary? |
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| Andrew415 |
Looking into Fixed Wing, but anything in the air would be great..
About the loans, Is there any educational requirment? Who can I see/talk to for more infromation?
What do you do? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew415
Looking into Fixed Wing, but anything in the air would be great..
About the loans, Is there any educational requirment? Who can I see/talk to for more infromation?
What do you do?
No educational requirement for ratings or licences. 16 year olds in high school can get loans for it if parents cosign and all that jazz, though they can't get governemnt loans.
For government loans, just do a google search for alberta student loans and canada student loans. I don't know who takes care of those departments as I never took a loan to do my flight training. For a bank loan, go talk to a bank. Call ahead, make an appointment, they'll tell you what they expect.
Right now I work in a warehouse stacking tires. :blink:
I used to be an Air Traffic Controller. I've also work cargo, dispatch, reservations and grooming for airlines , and I've done some flight instructing (very little). So my experience doesn't really cover the whole gambut, but I have friends who are retired senior captains for various airlines, friends who are currently pilots for large and small airlines (some trans-oceanic, some working in exotic places like the Bahamas) and all kinds of airlines (Singapore Air, Korean Air, WestJet, AirCanada, First Air, Fast Air, UPS, etc). I also know a lot of flight attendants, flight engineers, load masters, dispatchers, instructors, bush pilots, medivac pilots and ferry pilots, as well as dock hands and ramp rats.
I started in aviation when I was 15 (joined air cadets at 12 though) and started volunteering at the aviation museum. I have a commercial licence with Group 1 IFR and instructor ratings. I might end up in aviation again, but only with companies I know treat their people well.
Take WestJet as an example. 2,500 hours required, if you have 2nd Officer time (flight engineer) they only count half of it, with an ATPL. Take home for a first year First Officer: about $750 every 2 weeks. Tell me that's "treating your people right". 2nd year FO's are making $3800/month before tax, but first year they gauge you.
One of the few airlines I'd fly for is Air Canada. WestJet has moved to new computerized systems and pilots aren't allowed to fly the planes anymore, they've gotten all fuel concious and shit. Ar Canada still says do whatever it takes to get it in safely. As ATC, if it was a race between WestJet and Air Canada, WestJet was being held up and sent on a long final because they can't duck it in tight like AC can.
Downside: Air Canada pays about $40,000/yr for first officer on a Dash 8 living in Toronto, which means you need to go to them with a rich wife or with 5,000 hours most of it multi-turbine and half of it multi-jet to go straight to a big jet and be able to pay your bills.
So I'm sure you see the trend, even the big boys pay shit and treat you like meat until you put in your dues and work your way up. And the only reason they can get away with it is because if you won't put up with it, they'll find someone else who will.
I've just refused to be a victim anymore. |
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| n0c7 |
| dtjohnst, what havent you done? :) Every thread I read that you post in is something interesting. Cop, Aviation, Hitman.. |
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| dtjohnst |
Meh. I've done enough things to keep life interesting. Best job ever was K9 with a security company, but the hours were way too harsh. I don't mind working hard, but I'm trying to get back in shape, I can't do that working 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. Especially since the pay sucked.
Right now I just want to go study electrical engineering. Maybe law after, but Eng first. I refuse to take a student loan at this point (though in the future maybe), so I'm hoping to get into electrician so I can work evenings and weekends while going to school once I save up enough to start.
Although to be honest, my goal would be to get on at an engineering firm as an intern or something. I'm taking drafting by correspondance and I took a class on autocad in school before, so starting off just reviewing work to ensure it's correct would be the ideal if I could eventually slide into draftsman once I'm done my course, work evenings and weekends in the office, get my degree and slide up to engineer with the same firm. Sounds too good to be true though, and most draftsman jobs I've seen posted want a 2-year diploma from a real college, which I'm not about to do, so I don't think it's likely to happen. I've sent off a few letters and resumes to some engineering firms in the city that do electrical with no luck though.
I'm going to start looking in Toronto I think. Honeywell is always short, so maybe I could get on there, and since their Aviation Division in Canada tends to do a lot of work on sweet US DoD contract (F22, JSF, etc), it'd be awesome to work for them. |
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