| MightyMidget |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
Pics from the package he sent to NBC. Scary thing is that the pics of him pointing the guns at the camera and other stuff is exactly the same as the stuff you see from "normal" folks involved in gun culture. Its so typical you actually find guys with pics like that as avatars on the boards.
kinda like the stuff you see from "normal" folks involved in the sport compact culture! Your statement is just asinine..... |
|
|
| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by MightyMidget
kinda like the stuff you see from "normal" folks involved in the sport compact culture! Your statement is just asinine.....
lol, want some cheese to go with your whine. :rolleyes: |
|
|
| Cyanide Ride |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
This was caused by one armed student.... having another armed student isn't necessarily going to solve anything. This falls under the heading of "Crazy shit happens", one nut case operating within the rules can do a shitload of damage and there is nothing anyone can do to predict or prevent it.... unless of course we kill everybody, then there's no chance that anybody will get out of line.
The whole thing reminds of an interview I saw with Jesse Ventura a long while back about how the idea of security was a complete farce since a couple of trained individuals with rifles could bring the entire US to a virtual stand still like what happened when with the washington snipers back in 2004.
Oh definitely, this is crazy shit.
But the difference is this was caused by "one seriously fucked up student." The warning signs were there, noone listened.
All I'm saying is that a "good" armed teacher or responsible adult wou've made a difference. (Since we're both going to agree that arming students might not be the best idea)
I'm just trying to say that if just one person on campus was equipped to deal with a violent situation (say a highly trained security guard or on site police officer) would've made a huge difference in the death toll. |
|
|
| Cyanide Ride |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/
Pics from the package he sent to NBC. Scary thing is that the pics of him pointing the guns at the camera and other stuff is exactly the same as the stuff you see from "normal" folks involved in gun culture. Its so typical you actually find guys with pics like that as avatars on the boards.
Uh, most of those pictures are made with airsoft guns and wannabe gangsta's. Just because someone has a "gun" in their avatar, don't include them in the same group as an actual responsible user of firearms.
I wouldn't consider these people to be "normal" gun folk. Any responsible user would know the difference between idiocy and responsibility.
Take a look at http://ar15.com/forums/ one of the largest firearms forums in the world have very few, if not any at all, have any such avatars that you describe. Any "posers" that try to "talk big" are dealt with accordingly. It is a very large and knowledgable community.
Sure they have "guns" as avatars, but certainly not in any matter that you describe (atleast not that I have seen)
Mighty Midgets point is that we all drive imports, but because some asshole with an import decides to run down 15 pedestrians to get ahead of another import in a race, doesn't make them the same as you or me. Likewise on this gun culture you are talking about.
*Edited* statement removed for being a bit ignorant. |
|
|
| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyanide Ride
Who gives two flying fucks why he did it. All I know is he should've been killed sooner and slowly.
I'd rather focus on how the families are doing.
Riiiight...because determining 'why' he did it won't help out looking for future signs of behaviour that could lead to a repeat of such an event...:rolleyes: |
|
|
| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Riiiight...because determining 'why' he did it won't help out looking for future signs of behaviour that could lead to a repeat of such an event...:rolleyes:
Maybe he did it because he sounds like Napolean Dynamite on the tapes released by NBC.
I would really like to see more case studies on this.
The Appalachian School of Law Shooting happened in Virginia as well, not that far from Viginia Tech.
Same scenario, with the exception of their being armed students.
Appalachian turned out alot better.
I would like to see evidence where armed students/staff made the situation worse. I challenge everybody here to find some, I can't. |
|
|
| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Blaine B.
Maybe he did it because he sounds like Napolean Dynamite on the tapes released by NBC.
I would really like to see more case studies on this.
The Appalachian School of Law Shooting happened in Virginia as well, not that far from Viginia Tech.
Same scenario, with the exception of their being armed students.
Appalachian turned out alot better.
I would like to see evidence where armed students/staff made the situation worse. I challenge everybody here to find some, I can't.
What amazes me is that he just walked into a gun store and bought a gun just like that. As long as you've never been criminally convicted you are allowed to purchase 1 gun per month. If you have a liscence then you can purchase as many as you wish.
I wouldn't be surprised if some kid that had his 'tater tots' stolen simply returns from his local gun shop and starts shooting up the place.
You're right though...more case studies need to be done to determine 'WHY' someone would act out in such a violent nature. |
|
|
| Cyanide Ride |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
Riiiight...because determining 'why' he did it won't help out looking for future signs of behaviour that could lead to a repeat of such an event...:rolleyes:
The signs were already there. That play that is online was fucked up and people should've kept a closer eye on him or atleast warned the authorities about him.
But no matter what the so called experts say, only he knows why he did it.
Honestly, it's shit like the media frenzy that focus on putting the dead killer in the limelight is probably what drives these insane attention deprived people to what they do: Fame, attention, power. |
|
|
| S2000_rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Blaine B.
Maybe he did it because he sounds like Napolean Dynamite on the tapes released by NBC.
I would really like to see more case studies on this.
The Appalachian School of Law Shooting happened in Virginia as well, not that far from Viginia Tech.
Same scenario, with the exception of their being armed students.
Appalachian turned out alot better.
I would like to see evidence where armed students/staff made the situation worse. I challenge everybody here to find some, I can't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appala...of_Law_shooting
First time hearing of this. That was actually handled exceptionally well! I definetely thinks worth a further look but a very thorough study must be done on each student should he/she be allowed to carry on campus. |
|
|
| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by S2000_rider
What amazes me is that he just walked into a gun store and bought a gun just like that. As long as you've never been criminally convicted you are allowed to purchase 1 gun per month. If you have a liscence then you can purchase as many as you wish.
I wouldn't be surprised if some kid that had his 'tater tots' stolen simply returns from his local gun shop and starts shooting up the place.
You're right though...more case studies need to be done to determine 'WHY' someone would act out in such a violent nature.
And yet, kids have their "tater tots" stolen all the time and don't go on rampages. In fact studies show that in places with more firearms in the hands of the general popultion, criminals are less inclined to engage in illegal activities, incluing "shooting up the place".
Again, in THAT culture, more guns is safer. It's easier to arm the public down there than it is to try and restrict them and get rid of them. Up here, things are a bit different, and I wouldn't advocate the same "solution" anywhere.
You can never eliminate situations like this, or anything else. Fort Knox and the White House could be successfully overrun with the right people, skill, practice and equipment. Anyone ever heard of that game "Traitor's Gate"? The goal was to steal the crown jewels from the tower of London, and the English government forced them to change the game and make the building less realistic since as it was it would give somene sufficient knowledge to possibly be successful. Security is an illusion and it always will be. There's no such thing as actual security.
When you stop at a red light here, there's a chance a guy can show up and shove a pistol in your face and hijack your car. The chance is slim, however, since it's hard to find firearms and they're expensive, plus licencing is more strict.
When you stop at a red light in Louisiana, there's a chance a guy can show up and shove a pistol in your face and hijakc your car. The chance is slim, however, since he needs to be really desperate to risk having his head blown off by armed motorists.
In both places security is an illusion, and yet in both cases the system works due to it's checks and balances. Different checks and balances in each one, but there nonetheless. To deny the effect of an armed populace is to speak out of ignorance. That'd be like a Texan going on about the crime in Canada because there's no armed populace to stop criminals. It'd be a comment based on ignorance of the way things work.
I spend a lot of time in Nevada - a conceal-carry state. I have at least 4 good friends working for law enforcement agencies down there. I have at least 8 good friends working in other various fields (students, business, IT, etc). I am very familiar with their culture and their crime, as well as their methods of enforcement. I'm not speaking out of my ass. I'm not speaking because I've studies some books are magazines and claim to have some cursory or academic knowledge. I've lived and walked around in that environment, the best type of experience of something that there is.
You can't sit back and point fingers at their system. We aren't "better"than them and we shouldn't be arrogant enough to pretend we are. I don't care what country you want to put down or which system, you can never sit back and point fingers like you're superior. And anyone whospends any amount of time in any nation will quickly realize the benefits that any form of society can bring. None are perfect, none will ever be perfect. But they all try their best to provide for their citizens in their own way.
And saying that someone's system breeds whackos and nuts is an insult. People are people. Whackos and nuts will find a way to hurt innocent people regardless of the gun laws. But any state in the US which acknowledge their belief in a right or the population to bear arms, like Virginia, but then attempts to remove that right in certain places, is going to take a LOT of heat when this kind of thing happens. Because people who normally have the ability to and who want to defend themselves, are left totally helpless and at the mercy of the system. |
|
|
| sam3s |
quote:
Originally posted by EK9Hatch
Only in the United States of America...
Jamie
thats an assinine statement to make. |
|
|
| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyanide Ride
Uh, most of those pictures are made with airsoft guns and wannabe gangsta's. Just because someone has a "gun" in their avatar, don't include them in the same group as an actual responsible user of firearms.
I wouldn't consider these people to be "normal" gun folk. Any responsible user would know the difference between idiocy and responsibility.
(SNIP)
I think you are speaking up on this particular subject with a lack of experience, a little ignorance, and you are making blanket statements.
meh, you assume to know my history with firearms and the boards and people I'm talking about but I'm the one showing a little ignorance? Gimme a break. :rolleyes:
I likes my guns but there's no need to pretend that there aren't gun nuts out there who worship their weapons and conduct themselves with a level of bravado similar to what you see in Cho's pics, just like we don't pretend that there aren't car nuts out there who are fanatical about their vehicles and act in manners most of us would deem inappropriate.
Personally I think this whole thing is less about guns than it is about the meds Cho was on. Cheers. |
|
|
| sam3s |
it does not matter whether you restrict or let others carry. If i want to kill a bunch of people i want to kill a bunch of people.
This type of thing happens in all societies not just the states, You just don't hear about it. The person who says there are less murders in China; HOG WASH!! How would you know the inner workings of a country whose gov't controls all information in to and out of the country? (oh and don't give me that the American gov't controls the media bullshit, if that were so Bush would have 100% approval rating)
All in all the States is a great place to live, sure there are ignorant assholes living there --but you find that in any country--, and countless other problems. But i n general its aight. |
|
|
| Cyanide Ride |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
meh, you assume to know my history with firearms and the boards and people I'm talking about but I'm the one showing a little ignorance? Gimme a break. :rolleyes:
I likes my guns but there's no need to pretend that there aren't gun nuts out there who worship their weapons and conduct themselves with a level of bravado similar to what you see in Cho's pics, just like we don't pretend that there aren't car nuts out there who are fanatical about their vehicles and act in manners most of us would deem inappropriate.
You are trying to lump everyone into one category of gun lover/nut, to which I do take abit of offense to.
I don't ever recall conducting myself or any of my training partners in a manner in which you describe and I don't ever wish to be either, that's all.
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
Personally I think this whole thing is less about guns than it is about the meds Cho was on. Cheers.
What gets me is the way the media throws mass murderers into the limelight like this. It's quite sad. |
|
|
| snugs |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyanide Ride
You are trying to lump everyone into one category of gun lover/nut, to which I do take abit of offense to.
....really because it seems to me that you just got overly defensive and jumped to conclusions instead of asking for clarification on what I meant when I wrote "normal", it was in quotations because the people who do that sort of irresponsible stuff (taking pics of themselves pointing guns at the camera and acting the fool, etc) consider themselves to be perfectly normal gun owners when (and I think we agree on this) that behavior isn't appropriate. :) |
|
|
| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by Cyanide Ride
What gets me is the way the media throws mass murderers into the limelight like this. It's quite sad.
QFT
This guy got exactly what he wanted, his name and face forever burned into the subconcious of the country if not the world.
He wanted attention and he is getting it. |
|
|
| Cyanide Ride |
quote:
Originally posted by snugs
....really because it seems to me that you just got overly defensive and jumped to conclusions instead of asking for clarification on what I meant when I wrote "normal", it was in quotations because the people who do that sort of irresponsible stuff (taking pics of themselves pointing guns at the camera and acting the fool, etc) consider themselves to be perfectly normal gun owners when (and I think we agree on this) that behavior isn't appropriate. :)
I do get overly testy when it comes to things like that, original statement removed for being a bit overzealous and ignorant.
Yeah, we both are on the same channel about what is appropriate ;)
There are terrible things happening to everyday and you don't see them going on murder spree's. One of my training partners is the nicest guy in the world, you'd never guess he had a very tough life growing up on the streets all over Canada. Looking at him, he's the last person you'd think who would jump in to "get your back" but he would be the first man to save your life.
Now he makes training videos geared towards police and security on dealing with knife and other armed encounters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2HVOTz2zzI
I have alot of respect for Noah and what he has accomplished to date. It's a mental choice to set your path to lay out the future.
Cho was a mal-adjusted moron who wasn't strong enough to handle the realities, good and horrible, he faced everyday and took it out on people who were able to manage it. He was already in college Noah was on the streets. A massive contrast in life choices.
It really is a tragedy that it got this far, Who knows what good being aware of what's going on around you that might have done, never hurt. But perhaps people will be less self centered and more aware of what is going on around them. |
|
|
| Blue CRX |
hey
instead of having these trained profs / students, how about just hiring a few trained security personnel / police officers. to me, i wouldnt trust my life in the hands of a fellow student with a gun.
and for having 300 profs / students carrying guns, you know if i was the mofo, if i knew i was up against some firepower, i would try to bring even more firepower, which could of turned out even uglier than it did
way to prevent this? the dude was fuckin crazy and they knew it in '05. how about they should of did somethin back then. it was kind of there fault that it happened. signs were all there and they still let it slide |
|
|
| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Blue CRX
hey
instead of having these trained profs / students, how about just hiring a few trained security personnel / police officers. to me, i wouldnt trust my life in the hands of a fellow student with a gun.
and for having 300 profs / students carrying guns, you know if i was the mofo, if i knew i was up against some firepower, i would try to bring even more firepower, which could of turned out even uglier than it did
way to prevent this? the dude was fuckin crazy and they knew it in '05. how about they should of did somethin back then. it was kind of there fault that it happened. signs were all there and they still let it slide
All valid suggestions. But they don't invalid the suggestion that allowing the general population the right to bear arms at school like they already have at the 7-11 would also help. |
|
|
| Blaine B. |
quote:
Originally posted by Blue CRX
hey
instead of having these trained profs / students, how about just hiring a few trained security personnel / police officers. to me, i wouldnt trust my life in the hands of a fellow student with a gun.
and for having 300 profs / students carrying guns, you know if i was the mofo, if i knew i was up against some firepower, i would try to bring even more firepower, which could of turned out even uglier than it did
way to prevent this? the dude was fuckin crazy and they knew it in '05. how about they should of did somethin back then. it was kind of there fault that it happened. signs were all there and they still let it slide
300 was just an arbitrary #.
It doesn't matter how much firepower the guy has on him, he can only fire two guns at a time. The only way it gets uglier is if the general popluation cannot defend themselves because the law says they aren't allowed to carry on school property. |
|
|
|
