| brigante |
| When's the last time you've heard someone say "I want to buy a Mustang?"<p>I'm white and I'd wouldn't even consider anything but an import.<p> |
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| CYA |
| i don't see why someone would spend about ฮK on something like a celica or integra or whatever then spend more money trying to make it break into the 14's.<p>i know someone is going to say they're ugly but... take a look at some of these pictures.<p>these ones aren't my style with the body work and wing, etc... but they'll probably be more to your liking?<p>http://saleenstangs.tripod.com/s281/5_29_01/grey_04.jpg<p>http://saleenstangs.tripod.com/s281/rainbow1.jpg<p>http://saleenstangs.tripod.com/s281/5_29_01/black_09.jpg<p>http://saleenstangs.tripod.com/s281/5_29_01/black_06.jpg<p>cya<p>(Edited by CYA at 10<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->7 am on Sep. 10, 2001) |
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| CYA |
| doh... the links aren't working... i'll see if i can find other pictures. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><p>cya |
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| CYA |
| ok... just make sure you don't click on the links above.<p>do a cut and paste and the pictures should work.<p>cya |
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| TurboBlueNX |
| Well, for me, I like a car that can handle as well as it can accelerate. <p>Imports are pretty well balanced performers in terms of power and handling. I know american automakers are getting better, but they still haven't gotten the knack of handling just yet.<p>But I think making a balanced car is more fun. |
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| CYA |
| andy, andy, andy... lol... c'mon you're telling me that a car like a civic, 240, integra, etc. can outperform a mustang, camaro, firebird on a road course? and that's why people don't buy the "v8 pony cars"? i would expect more from you andy. haha. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> look at how the nx2000 was doing in the old enduro series which used to air on TSN back a few years ago. i wonder why they put the imports in one class and the v8 pony cars in another? and i wonder why the imports always seemed to be the guys holding up the "pony cars"? i.e. slower lap times... hmmm.... very interesting. haha. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> and if you remember this series did not allow engine modifications... just suspension and brakes. oh, of course rims and tires too. small things like that but other than that the cars were pretty much stock. seriously though... if the pony cars didn't handle well with springs and shocks etc, there wouldn't be so many companies which provide handling products for the pony cars. there's a company called contex which is sells suspension parts for the old mustang and they're "top line" setup is about ป,000 USD for the rear set up. hmmm... that's strange that a company would market something so wild when these cars just don't handle well? of course that's not to say you need to spend this much to make the mustang handle... i'm just pointing out one extreme to illustrate the point that these cars can carve corners very well. oh... here's a real life example... andy, you know kevin. well... ask him about the mustang that he couldn't keep up with on groat. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>v8's rule! hahaha... just kidding!! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>cya |
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| Liroy |
Is it fair to compare a civic to a 'v8 pony'?
How about you compare a Rotary powered FD3S to a 'V8 Pony'? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> |
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| CYA |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from Liroy on 11:48 am on Sep. 10, 2001
Is it fair to compare a civic to a 'v8 pony'?
How about you compare a Rotary powered FD3S to a 'V8 Pony'? _<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->[/b][/quote]<p>oh here we go with the "fair" thing again. hehe _it's ok to compare your ฽K RX7 to a ฮK mustang, camaro, firebird. _but there's a reason why i am comparing the "pony cars" to integras and the like.<p>i'm pretty sure every single person on asianet has to consider money when comparing cars. unfortunate but oh well... there's always the 649! lol.<p>anyway... look at your SIR... near ฮK new... mustang... near ฮK new. _i'd say it's "fair" to compare. <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo--><p>besides... by saying it's not "fair" to compare. _are you saying that the civic is the "underdog" between the two??? _hmmm... very interesting. _<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><p>and if you want to compare an rx-7 to a v8 car sure... how about the corvette Z06? _<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><p>cya<p>(Edited by CYA at 1:20 pm on Sep. 10, 2001) |
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| Talented |
| How about comparing other expenses too? <p>V8 much more in gas, insurance and repair. Not to mention resale value drops like crazy too. |
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| CYA |
| hmmm... gas mileage. well i can't say from experience as i've never owned an import which is a comparable performer to my mustang. but more hp is more hp... the mileage should be "similar" if you're making the same hp.<p>as for insurance. definately disagree with you there. the insurance on my first car is a major reason why i got rid of it. i had a new 1993 240sx LE hathback. insurace companies wanted 6-7 grand per year!! this is with NO tickets on record.<p>with my mustang insurance is a hair over 񘈨. i think it was under 񘊌.<p>as for depreciation... i bought my 1993 mustang back in '97 (i think... can't remember off the top of my head). i paid ผ,000 for it. new these cars were about ภ,000.<p>my 240SX was ว,000 new back in 1993 and i got ฟ,500 for it. i threw in an alarm system which cost me over 񘘐.<p>but that's not to say imports don't hold their value cause they do... but what i'm saying is it depends on the condition of the vehicle too. the 240SX i had was in awesome condition and so is / was the mustang i bought. as long as the car is in good condition the resale value will reflect that... it's not based solely on import vs. pony car.<p>cya |
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| TurboBlueNX |
Sam, I'll address you when I get home <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>In the meantime, read this:<p>Craig Damashi who drives a 240SX with a DET in it.<p>
> Wasn't Craig 'kick of smack talk' Damaschi (sp?) just telling us all about
> how the wonders of JUN allowed him to turn a 1<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->7 last week at lime rock?<p>To Craigs defense the PDA events they only allow cars to pass on the front
straight and small section on the back straight. Unfortunately the more
nimble cars that are quicker through the esses and whatnot get stuck in
traffic, when they hit the down hill the more powerful less nimble cars just
romp the accelerator and the little Sentra's don't have the grunt to pass.
Some even point you by and stay on the gas...like they expect you to pull an
extra 100hp out of thin air to go by them under WOT. <roll eyes><p>Craig had a 99+ Mustang Cobra holding him up pretty bad when he turned his
quickest times. Craig was on his butt in the non-passing twisty parts, as
soon as you saw them come down the downhill for the front straight, Craig
was *glued* to his ass, the Mustang would romp the gas and pull half a car
or a car on him in the straight, and then hold him up again on the rest of
the course. He was *this* close to nailing a 1<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->6. He turned a best of
1<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->7.1 Arrg!<p>However, Tim Mather turned a 1<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->4 in his GA16 liter Rally Sentra at Limerock<p>so :-p. ;-) |
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| CYA |
| but now we're talking modified cars. that opens up a world of variables. any modified car can beat another modified car just depends on who did what. but the racing series i was talking about is the best example of what stock cars can do cause they were just that. stock with the exceptions mentioned already. but if we talk power adders, different engines etc... that's a whole other ball game. <p>if we look at that stuff why not look at how the c5r is dominating in it's circuit? in my opinion that's just too far from reality for asianet people.<p>cya |
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| demondragon |
What are u talking about..man I see MUSTANG 2000-2001 GT coupes...all over the place !! Well..most people who drive them seems to around 35-50 yrs old though !!
and ford is coming out with a new version in 2004 .... |
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| Liroy |
well i was looking at it from a used perspective, a 94 r1 30K as well <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
and hey, you might say Mustang from 93 also a lot cheaper, but please, let me have this <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
When i was in California, my uncles friend had a 2001 Corvette Z06, and man can that thing haul ass <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> It's amazing because you dont really feel the acceleration, it's constant throughtout. At the beginning it sucks you back, but then its just constant and fluid. Pretty cool, but bah, domestic is not my type of car. I muhc prefer the small disp 1.3 rotaries, maybe even the 2.0 3 rotor <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> But, in all honesty, the Z06 is a very sweet car.
BTW that's the guy who's son drives a BMW M-coupe, another amazing car. You people might be all 'against the street racing scene' but he raced a CRX with the BMW at the street races 3 times, and lost all 3. This CRX was pulling 12.5 at the track <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> All engine too, no turbo, and it was a 1.6 as well, so all you honda lovers have something to drool about <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> Mind you, he had a stripped interior, REAL carbon fibre hood, and plexi glass windows. |
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| demondragon |
| holy shiet..I like to see what would happen if that CRX got into an accident...haha...jkjk...that's nuts... |
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| brigante |
| You want real life CYA? Visit the local autocross. Sure on a road course the Stang might have an advantage, only because it can pass on the straights. But it will get eaten up around cones. We're talking stock versus stock. <p>Each car has it's advantages and depending on the scenario you can make one car dominate the other. Chances are I'll never get track time to do real road racing, nor do I want to go nose to bumper with another car, so I'll pick a import like the TypeR over a stang anyday.<p> |
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| CYA |
| liroy... k i'll let you have the ฮK used rx7 thing. but that's just cause it proves my point that imports can lose value too. lol. just bugging you. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><p>brigante... what's this about real life? the race series i was talking about isn't make believe... that is real life. and if you've seen some of the tracks that the enduro series used to visit you'd see that some of them are tight with very little straights... but the same results... pony cars over civics, integras, nx2000. sure they weren't in the same class but i always compared them for the sake of comparison because my brother has a camaro and i had a 240sx.<p>cya |
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| REFLUX |
also with insurance, the companies dont have flat rates or ne thing
it's all based on statistics & data collected from accident reports etc.
because of the increasing popularity of imports, more crashes occur, therefore more money for insurance
the company has the make the assumption that if you drive an import & are within a certain age group that you will modify, race & all that other stuff
it's stupid but it's true<p>i know this post is off topic but that's cuz i didn't know there was a 2nd page 2 this forum <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
<p>(Edited by REFLUX at 4:52 pm on Sep. 10, 2001) |
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| Alpha Gangsta |
blah blah blah......nissans rule!!!
j/j<p>its just the way things are going. The import enthusiams is just growing otu of proportion. Nowadays everyone wants an import. Everyones got their own reasons of course. msot people like to compare stock to stock of course but what I want to know is which is more aftermarket friendly? Imports? or Domestics?
Everyone believes imports handle well and domestics haul ass(I'd rather haul ass then take a turn). But if you think about it, thats how everyone wants to think isn;t it? Domestics are always about power and speed, while the smaller cars that lack those abilities find other thigns to concentrate on. ie handling, fuel consumption, craftsmanship, etc. I am very much a honda basher(mroe of a rice basher actually) but if I was offered a mustang(rustang? j/j), I'd still take a honda. I'm not even sure why actually.......<p>anwyays....I'm probabyl wasting space, off topic, missing the key points I had in my head in the first place and am crazy. so I'll stop with my main point..........NISSANS RULE!!
I'll shut up now and stop reading before anyone proves me wrong....j/j |
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| CYA |
| actually alpha gansta i think you're on to something here. i think the import lovers out there are just following the trend. people will deny it but the social influence is inevitable.<p>cya |
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| brigante |
| <sarcasm> Really CYA? Enduro is real? I thought it was like the wwf of wrestling<end sarcasm><p>The stock mustang will not be able to keep up with most stock sporty imports at a autox. It was never meant to be there, just like a stock civic at the strip. I think we can all agree that there are no Enduro tracks that resemble an autox track at all. In fact 90% of autox designs do not require 3rd gear. <p>This is not socail influence. A well balanced, lightweight 4banger will dominate over a heavy V8 in an autox, which is enjoyed by much more weekend warriors than a road course. This is why myself and many others do not own a Pony car.<p><p><p> |
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| wong |
| Honestly, I think the Pony car is in no threat of extinction. There's a huge following and most import drivers eventually "graduate" to a Mustang or similiar car anyway. You'll outgrow the spoilers and import scene and just want a stock car that is reasonbable priced, has some passing power, and decent handling, voila! The Pony Car surfaces! |
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| REFLUX |
the aftermarket support for domestics is huge isn't it? it jus isn't as well advertised as imports (imports being the trend of course)
& wong has a point, after you grow out of the whole car mods & speeding etc u'll jus want a car that has "passing power, and decent handling"
of course price comes in but it's diff for everyone |
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| CYA |
| brigante... if you knew that was real life then why did you post what you did? the way i see it you're just looking for an arguement and out of respect for my friends website i won't entertain you. i'm out. cya |
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| seven |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from brigante on 11:18 pm on Sep. 10, 2001
A well balanced, lightweight 4banger will dominate over a heavy V8 in an autox...[/b][/quote]<p>what are you trying to say here? _what about a heavy 4banger vs a well-balanced, lightweight V8? what is the point of stacking all the good characteristics on the 4banger side and then comparing it to a V8?<p>V8 and 4banger autox performance depends on course layout and driver abilities. |
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| seven |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from REFLUX on 11:47 pm on Sep. 10, 2001
the aftermarket support for domestics is huge isn't it? it jus isn't as well advertised as imports (imports being the trend of course)[/b][/quote]<p>i think it's advertised as well as the import aftermarket. just depends where you look. |
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| brigante |
Let's analyze from the beginning:<p>1. I start with saying I would not buy a Pony Car
2. CYA come right back assuming that I'm a drag racer, and that I like spoilers.
3. Someone says Pony Cars dont handle (which I disagree with also)
4. CYA brings up Enduro Series, to defend Pony car handling, which he then states "in my opinion that's just too far from reality for asianet people. "
5. I bring up that reality is that I and 99% of Asianet readers will never race on a Road track or Enduro Series, but several us hit the autocross weekly, which requires a nimble lightweight car - of which Pony cars were never meant to be.
6. CYA then states I'm looking for an argument! Jeez you're almost as bad as my wife! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>My sarcasm might have been a bit overboard and I know you Pony car guys are proud of your cars for WHATEVER reason. The fact is that it not just spoilers and social influence that is hurting the Pony car sales, there is a PERFORMANCE aspect to it also. |
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| Fordgasm |
| You're weak man, you're just another lemming ricer. When the last time you saw a pylons on the street you had to slalom around? |
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| CYA |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from brigante on 9:44 am on Sep. 12, 2001
My sarcasm might have been a bit overboard[/b][/quote]<p>as long as you keep your sarcasm out of this then i will discuss / debate this topic with you.<p>so with that said let's go through your analysis.<p>2. notice i said that the pictures are probably more to your liking with a ??? it was a question. so what if you like "spoilers"? to each their own. and if you don't which i now assume you don't then so be it. could have said they're not your style. which is what i said in my first post.<p>4. enduro series... do you acknowledge the fact that the imports like the integra, civic, crx, and nx2000 in this series were turning slower lap times? <p>and do you notice that my comment about "being too far from reality" there is no comment about enduro series? do you know what the c5r is? look it up on the 'net if you don't. i brought that up because we were talking about modified cars and that the c5r is "too from from reality" for asianet people. i was not saying the cars in the enduro series were too far from reality... cause like i've said several times already these cars were stock with exception of brakes, suspension, rims, tires, and the like.<p>5. it's funny how you state that 99% of asianet people will not hit a road course... think about how many asianet people like driving on groat. <p>and... why do you state that autocross requires a "nimble lightweight car of which pony cars were never meant to be" like that is the only determining factor for how well a car will do at an autocross? how about an austin mini? those are lightweight. think it will do well?<p>basically i think your post has no merit cause one... you're stating opinion like it is fact <p>and two... because you've twisted my words around so that they are not in the same context as which they were intended.<p>cya |
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| TurboBlueNX |
| C'mon Sam, you mean to tell me that if you old 240 had "240" (HP) or something equivalent to a 'Stang, it wouldn't handle better?...<p>o.k.o.k., let's try to keep apples to apples (or something like that)<p>How aobut this then, I know JUN mechanic is running an 8 second Sylvia (which is, for all it's intents and purposes, a US spec 240SX except for the motor) and running on the stock I.R.S., rear diff, body, and it goes in a very straight line with little sideways shenannigans. (I have the video). The only thing changed on that car was an aluminum interior, shock and spring combo, and slicks. And then the obvious changes to the motor. Isn't that impressive?. <p>I know that the Integra Type R is just as fast around the tracks as a 'Stang, with a shortcoming of a few horsepower and alot of torque. The new Spec V Sentra can clobber the current market ITR, which means it'll be more than a challenge for the 'Stang.<p>It's funny how these "debates" follow you around eh? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>OOoo, a Buick Grand National is for sale in the Trader!, บ,000 (argh!) |
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| CYA |
lol... andy... no i never meant that if my 240sx had 240 hp that it wouldn't out do a stock mustang. but that falls into the modified engine category again. if we increase the mustang power by 55% (just like in your example of the 240sx) we'd have about 350hp in the mustang which would then even out the competition again. the point i'm trying to make is that stock vs stock the cars are similar if we talk about "balanced" performance. another point i'm trying to make is that contrary to popular belief the "pony cars" can turn corners well too. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>oh... almost forgot. don't quote me on the numbers here but this is what i remember from road and track.<p>camaro 0.87g and 60.0 mph through the slalom.
ITR 0.83g and 62 mph through the slalom.
civic si 0.80g and 60.1 mph through the slalom.<p>we won't even look at the other part of "balanced" performance cause we know who wins hands down in that category. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><p>cya |
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| brigante |
CYA, great to hear you're back, I knew you didn't run off scared.<p>I'll subtract your remarks on the personal level, since they have no merit. I'll being with your comment on Enduro series. I never did deny that a pony cars have been running quite well in Enduro, you seem to run and hide away from admitting the same about a pony car in a autox. But I forgive you. I won't even answer your comment about an Austin Mini because you know inside that you are twisting the meaning of my words also, but I forgive you.<p>So lets take your your last comments into perspective. You seem so confident about the handling, first let me ask you this, what does handling have to do with skidpad numbers? You've also proved another point for me, look at your slalom numbers.
Handling has much more to do with how a car behaves in transitions - both changing directions and on the edge of traction. A car that is well balanced in grip front/rear tends to handle well as it is easier to control at the limit. Do you not agree that it's possible to have a very grippy car that "handles" badly, ie a mustang with stock performance tires. It's also possible to have a car with low grip that handles well - ie, a Civic on stock all season radials. The former may do better on the skidpad but you won't enjoy it down a twisty road the same way.<p>The way the car behaves under violent transitions is more important in an autox. The FWD cars are easier to control, lighter and smaller, making them better autox machines. Therefore slalom test is a better indicator of a car's handling than a skidpad is. <p>Groat road is but a road, that is ALL. It is may have the chracteristics of a road course, but how many people you've met say "I'm prepping my car for Groat road?". More likely you'll hear "I'm prepping my car for the strip", or "I'm prepping my car for the autox", and very unlikely "I'm prepping my car for Solo1". Substitute "car" with whatever you like, but there's no denying it that "car" is not a Pony car in all cases.<p>THAT is why I will chose an sport compact over a Pony car.<p> |
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| seven |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from brigante on 11:30 am on Sep. 14, 2001
The FWD cars are easier to control, lighter and smaller, making them better autox machines.[/b][/quote]<p>Yeah, thats why all the best handling sports cars are FWD... Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus, etc. make FWD cars exclusively. Not! |
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| TurboBlueNX |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from seven on 10:25 am on Sep. 17,
Yeah, thats why all the best handling sports cars are FWD... Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus, etc. make FWD cars exclusively. _Not![/b][/quote]<p>Well don't forget, if you were to bring up the HP of any FWD to the level of Porche, Lotus or Ferrari, those little FWD cars would give them a reeaal good run for the money.<p>Say, Didn't lotus start out as a Turbo 4 cyl? <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> |
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| CYA |
| brigante... again your post is opinion and not fact. i have nothing more to add than what i have already covered except to say that you have not stated any FACTS to back up your claim that pony cars do not "handle" well. i on the other hand have given FACTS to back up my claim that pony cars handle just as well.<p>andy... you're kinda missing the point to seven's comment on the porsche's, ferrari's etc. that was brought on by comments from brigante such as,<p><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The way the car behaves under violent transitions is more important in an autox. The FWD cars are easier to control, lighter and smaller, making them better autox machines. Therefore slalom test is a better indicator of a car's handling than a skidpad is.[/b][/quote]<p>notice the way this statement is worded. he says FWD cars handle better. which is simply his own opinion... not fact. fact is RWD cars handle better... wonder why there aren't any FWD F1 cars? wonder why there aren't any FWD indy cars? i really don't know where brigante gets this idea that FWD handles better... maybe social influence, or maybe his driving style. who knows... but the point is... FWD cars do not handle better. seven's post was not intended to say that the FWD cars cannot compete against porsche's, ferrari's, etc.<p>oh... another funny thing about brigante's post is that he says slalom is a better indicator of "handling" then skidpad numbers. lol.<p>cya |
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| Alpha Gangsta |
| I odn;t actually know too much about this subject. But I was just wondering what is a "skidpad" test and "slalom"? Any reason the skidpad is more important for handling? |
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| CYA |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from Alpha Gangsta on 8:52 am on Sep. 18, 2001
I odn;t actually know too much about this subject. But I was just wondering what is a "skidpad" test and "slalom"? Any reason the skidpad is more important for handling?[/b][/quote]<p>a skidpad test basically has a car going around in a circle measuring the "grip" of the vehicle that is doing the circle.<p>a slalom is a test where the vehicle turns left and right doing an "S" like pattern around pylons.<p>when i was laughing at brigantes comment about slalom being a better indicator of handling than skidpad that wasn't meant to say that skidpad numbers are more important... i was laughing because he's re-inforcing my point that pony cars handle just as well but he didn't even realize it.<p>cya |
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| seven |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from TurboBlueNX on 8:44 pm on Sep. 17, 2001
Well don't forget, if you were to bring up the HP of any FWD to the level of Porche, Lotus or Ferrari, those little FWD cars would give them a reeaal good run for the money.[/b][/quote]<p>all other things being equal, i doubt a FWD car will handle as well as a RWD car. _obviously FWD cars must use the front wheels to provide lateral grip AND acceleration/braking. _RWD cars do not.<p> |
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| brigante |
| Seven and CYA, you guys need to revisit the Topic subject. We're discussing Pony cars here, not Porches, but it seems like you've ran out of ammo so I don't blame you for grasping things out of context.<p>CYA, look at your number posted on the Slalom, there is no denying that if a person was looking for a nimble and balanced autocross vehicle, a Pony car would not even make the list. What you are trying to tell people is that a Pony car can handle as well as any FWD sport compact, and in an autocross that is simply a lie. A skidpad is not a good indicator of handling, so I don't know why you brought that up.<p>Let's take a look at bone stock class winners of solo2. Any pony cars there? Nope. We're not discussing a road course. You seem to think that Pony cars have advantages in all areas of performance over sport compacts, and that sport compacts drivers are sport compact drivers because they're into style and social influence. Fact is that a Pony car has a huge disadvantage in autocrosses. Fact is that Autocrossing after drag racing is the autosport for the masses. Road courses don't even come into play here.<p>Do the people justice and admit that the Pony car just doesn't cut it for the needs of new performance drivers. |
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| CYA |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from brigante on 11:14 am on Sep. 18, 2001
CYA, look at your number posted on the Slalom, there is no denying that if a person was looking for a nimble and balanced autocross vehicle, a Pony car would not even make the list.[/b][/quote]<p>you're kidding me right?<!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo--> 8-O<p>anyway i'll reply later... got work to do and it's almost lunch.<p>cya |
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| TurboBlueNX |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from CYA on 8:36 am on Sep. 18, 2001
andy... you're kinda missing the point to seven's comment on the porsche's, ferrari's etc. <p>Oh no, I got the point <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><p>I'm jsut saying that those cars are basically streetable race cars, that's all.
[/b][/quote]<p>Why do you think the Type R is dominating it's class?, because all the illegal mods that can be done to the car, are already done at the factory.<p>Don't get me wrong, I love RWD as much as getting seven meals a day, but aw, I just figured I'm be the lone voice for FWD <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> thassall.<p>Remember kidies, we're all batting for the same team here <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->)<p>Besides, wasn't Indy and associated RWD racing events established before FWD was even considered a car?. <p> |
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| CYA |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from TurboBlueNX on 12:18 pm on Sep. 18, 2001
Why do you think the Type R is dominating it's class?[/b][/quote]<p>which class is that though andy? perhaps it's because of human error? not necessarily driving error but class limitation "error"?<p>it's just like how some racing organizations classify a twin turbo set up as two power adders! so now that you've eliminated a whole group of cars from competing the winner isn't necessarily "top dog". the winner in that instance just hasn't competed with all the competition<p>if you look at the classes in solo2 racing you'll see that the cars we are comparing aren't even in the same class. sooooo... integra type r dominating it's "class" doesn't really apply to the debate at hand.<p>what does play a role in our comparison is what we as car enthusiasts can afford. and again... as i've said time and time again... pony cars and si's, sir's, ITR's, etc are comparable in that respect. and then when you look at handling they are close.<p><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from brigante on 11:14 am on Sep. 18, 2001
Fact is that a Pony car has a huge disadvantage in autocrosses. Fact is that Autocrossing after drag racing is the autosport for the masses.[/b][/quote]<p>why do you think that by stating the word "fact" that your claims are indeed fact? again... you haven't given a fact which backs your claim up yet. <p>if you can sit there and tell me that "fact is that a pony car has a huge disadvantage in autocrosses" why don't you back that up. again... opinion stated as fact.<p>where do you get this information about autox being most popular behind drag racing? how is that even relevant to the debate? where did i say autox is not popular? even if autox was what every single person on earth did 7 hours each day of their life it still does not back up your claim that pony cars do not handle nearly as well as a FWD import.<p>cya |
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| IwishIhadaskylinegtr |
I think what brigante is trying to say is that with rwd comes oversteer and fwd comes understeer.....so in other words if a mustang was to compete in the autox it might have a lot of trouble because it has too much power cauing oversteer........a good example of oversteer in a car is the ferrai f50.....for half a million usd that thing in most cases wouldn't be able to come out a turn in full throttle cuz it has really bad oversteer
but that doesn't mean that fwd drive rule that area I bet a really talanted driver will do almost just as well in a stang as he will in a civic hb....in a autox its like 75% skill and 25% car.<p>Also rwd handles better then a fwd car mainly because of the fact that its can come in and out of corners faster
(don't tell me a integra type R can kick a s2000 in a autox)<p>
You can't really compare price range here because in japan mustangs and vettes are considered imports and their prices have been jacked up so you buy japanese made products...same goes for canada cept vise versa
I think down there a mustang costs as much as a skyline gtr(at least a vette does)..............no wait maybe a lancer gsr...can't remember....if your going to compare cars do it reasonably take japanese prices and convert it to usd and then match it with a domestic within the same price range...<p>
and to the person who posted that you'll go out of it post and just drive a stock car.......not everyone does that, its a way of life there are guys in their 40s driving trans am with lots of power......<p>honestly I use to HATE domestics.....their engine sounds like crap and they look ugly......which car now a days get chicks??? a pipmped out civic or a pipmped out mustang......sure the mustang will probably smoke the civic but I don't think the driver will car if he's in the losers lane with all the hunnies(well probably most of them)!!! But when I picked up a magazine at my friend's house One day I was amased that they run 7s 1/4 mile times....consistantly......( I know I know a third gen rx7 did it too and others).....what I'm trying to say is that and what I think cya is saying is that a mustang is a better platform to start out with than a import.<p>I think the reason why most guys prefer a import is because it gets gurls and is good on gas.......(I don't care what you say quite a lot of the imports here are show)<p>but you have to say its kinda hard to swallow that force inducted 4 bangers and v6s(imports) are getting closer and closer to the times of a 550 block engine(usually does 9s 1/4 mile) its just technology advancing...shit
V8 Ponies are not dead......proabably all the magazines you read and the stuff you research on are all imports look at your local 7-11 magazine sections you'll see tons of hot rod magazines and other stuff....<p><p> <p> |
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| IwishIhadaskylinegtr |
| oops misspelled pimped wrong twice and accidently wrote shit after technology advancing<p>anyways both lifestyles have their ways of expressing themselves don't hate it till you experience it! |
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| 84-1010953184 |
| Hey IwishIhadaskylinegtr, welcome to AsiaNet <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.asianet.ca/images/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> <p>Nice to see you are posting.. If you get a chance, introdued yourself to everyone. We've got a great community here and it's all our users that make it great. <p>TinmaN |
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| CYA |
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote: from IwishIhadaskylinegtr on 4:47 am on Sep. 19, 2001
I think what brigante is trying to say _is that with rwd comes oversteer and fwd comes understeer.....so in other words if a mustang was to compete in the autox it might have a lot of trouble because it has too much power cauing oversteer........a good example of oversteer in a car is the ferrai f50.....for half a million usd that thing in most cases wouldn't be able to come out a turn in full throttle cuz it has really bad oversteer
[/b][/quote]<p>is this what you were trying to say brigante?<p>cya |
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