| lowryder99 |
Okay,
So does anyone know this chubby installer at the 137th bestbuy? The guy is an absolute riot.
I go in there and ask for a wire harness for a 2003 GM car and a dash install kit for a 04 silverado.
So let me explain, I have done many installs in vehicles before, I used to do it for side cash and did some sound competitions awhile back. I have my installs featured in cars at powerama and dtp so I do sort of know what I am doing.
So I get a puzzled look on the kids face as to why I want a wiring harness for an 03 gm vehicle and an dash install kit for an 04 silverado.
So there is where the story gets good,
This kid (not the installer, just the sales kid) tells me they straight up don't have any harnesses for an 04 silverado, and they simply do not do installs on newer trucks because it's too hard (ummm okay)
Now I know this is b.s because last time I went there to buy a harness for a friend the SAME chubby installer kid told me that I HAD to buy the 120 dollar harness because my airbags run through the deck and the bcm....uggggg....yes he ACTUALLY told me that. That GM engineers figured it would be good to run AIRBAGS through a RADIO that can be removed with FOUR bolts. Yep I almost believe that.
I have done many installs on this year truck before and imformed him that he was wrong, he then countered by letting me know he has installed for 7 years....congrats, you have made 14 dollars an hour for 7 years haha.
I then informed him that I had worked for GM, did a lot of wiring tech and could provide him with wiring diagrams to show him that at no point what-so-ever does the airbag wiring TOUCH the stock deck.
He started to throw out some crap and I could tell he was getting mad because I actually knew what I was talking about. Infact it said right on the package for "databus retention"....this "pro installer" didn't even know what databus was, I had to explain to his co-workers that databus worked from the obd2 port to relay diagnostic info on the deck of higher end gm vehicles such as the high end cadilac cars etc..etc...
Needless to say this hackshow installer became pissed that I knew more than him and decided to hide in his little installer bay while myself and his co-workers laughed at him.
I think his name was shayne or dwayne or something. So if you know him make sure you relay the message that he doesn't know jack schitt, stop trying to rip off customers by selling them lies, stop being rude to people that know more about an install than you. Actually learn how to ride wiring schematics and then get back to me.
That's my rant, needless to say he refused to sell me the 2003 car harness without all the extra junk, I said I was going to get a manager but then he told me he was out of stock)
I went to another bestbuy, got the cheap harness, wired up the truck and it works and sounds great.
Oh and guess what, my airbags didn't blow up in my face when I turned the truck on hahaha....
(He was literally stumped when I asked him, don't you think if that were the case when I yanked the stock deck the airbag light would come on?) hahaha... |
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| Ravendarat |
| The only thing you actually loose by pulling the stock deck is the warning chimes. Also on some GM vehicles like a caddy CTS for example, pulling the stock deck and not using the data bus retention module causes the check engine light to come on and off sparaticlly. The info he was relaying to you is a wives tale that has been going around for years. This is actually a variation of the info that was passed on to installers by the companies that made the modules like Metra and Scoshe when the J body stuff first started using a data line with the stock deck. The problem here lies in that he has never been given the proper information and without access to the actuall GM manuals you could not figure this out in a install bay without trial and error. Any responsible installer is not going to use a customers vehicle to prove or disprove information given to them by a supplier. Im not really defending the guy, but I suggest you give him a break as I dont think he was trying to rip you off like you suggest, but that he actually just didnt know any better. And as I said, to actually do that vehicle PROPERLY you still need that data retention module to keep your chimes so in reality he was telling you the right way to do it but was wrong in what he told you the ramifications were in doing it without the module. |
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| lowryder99 |
I tried to tell him, I even invited him to come to the dealership I used to work it so I could show him the wiring diagrams and let him keep them.
I told him you only lose the chimes and he told me "that's no true" he started rattling off untrue facts about bcm modules burning out and blah blah....I honestly think he was trying to be a rip off artist, either that or he actually believe the b.s. he spews.
I mean I was polite at first, I told him straight up what you lost when you didn't use the module and he just wasn't having it, typical "I am the big bad installer I know all and you don't" I told him the vehicles it effects and that it wasn't the trucks (some trucks with RDS run diag through the deck but they also wire it through the D.I.C. so even yanking those radios doesn't cause an issue)
Did he not think for one minute that it was possible an installer who actually knew what to do would pick up some parts at bestbuy? |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by lowryder99
I tried to tell him, I even invited him to come to the dealership I used to work it so I could show him the wiring diagrams to show him.
I told him you only lose the chimes and he told me "that's no true"
I mean I was polite at first, I told him straight up what you lost when you didn't use the module and he just wasn't having it, typical "I am the big bad installer I know all and you don't"
Did he not think for one minute that it was possible an installer who actually knew what to do would pick up some parts at bestbuy?
In reality instead of fighting with you, he should have just sold you the parts and let you be on your way. Arguing with a customer is generally not productive. I tell people what they need to do it the proper way and if they decide they want to do it the other way as you did I will sell them the stuff and send them off on their way. Its your choice to loose functionality not his and he didnt seem to get that. For the record, because I dont know for sure which vehicles are affected in the same way as the Caddy I will not do the install in my bay without the retention harness on any vehicle where it is applicable. |
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| gab |
it all comes down to liabilities....... i would not knowingly sell anyone a normal harness knowing it was going into a RDS equipped chev. even though you are correct that it will work, you take on liabilities by doing so.
here is the read where the "myth" came from.
ENGLEWOOD, N.J.— BlitzSafe has decided not to ship a General Motors radio interface product because of possible liability issues in the event of an airbag deployment.
BlitzSafe's interface, called the GM RRD, is a kit that allows users to remove a GM radio and replace it with an aftermarket product without losing some of the car functions, which are now tied into the GM radio. These functions include OnStar voice communications and chimes for door open, ignition key, safety belt fasten, etc.
BlitzSafe's president Ira Marlowe said the company learned that if an airbag deployed and its GM RRD had a failure and OnStar did not work, then BlitzSafe could be liable. The critical issue is that OnStar automatically contacts the driver when an airbag is deployed and will dispatch an emergency vehicle.
"We don't know if the radio is considered a piece of safety equipment, like an airbag. So now when we talk about integration there's a big question," Marlowes said. "Even if our device works the way it should but then there's a failure and someone's life is on the line and emergency service doesn't get there, what do we do? We're confirming [the liability issue] and if it's true, it's never going to see the market."
BlitzSafe said it invested a year of R&D in the GM RRD, and it was expected to ship in November at $59.
Ron Freeman, VP of Peripheral Electronics, Clearwater, Fla., concurred. "We are unsure if it is feasible to remove the radio [completely from the bus] without causing any safety liability issues or interfering with the proper operation of the vehicle. Freeman explained that certain upscale GM cars might have even more features tied into the radio. "We have heard that in the Cadillac Seville, if you remove the radio, it communicates with the control module for the transmission, so it won't shift properly. We've heard this but can't confirm it."
SoundGate said it is not concerned with the liability issue because it engineers to a high enough standard. "It really is a matter of engineering expertise," said SoundGate president Rob Putnam. "As long as you educate your engineers, it is possible to work within those guidelines. What concerns me is the automakers are becoming more and more secretive about what they are doing with regard to their data buses," Putnam said.
Marlowe noted that the issue might have implications for the entire aftermarket. "Removing a radio in an environment when you have certain warnings and emergency service notification going through the radio, it becomes a tremendous liability. People are going to be reluctant to pull out their radios. And the aftermarket's ability to do this, without what we [integrator companies] do, is then threatened."
In the event of a liability case involving an aftermarket radio, "everyone would be brought in, including the supplier, distributor and the retailer who sold it," he said.
i guess i am a big fat idiot as well....... cuz i wouldn't have sold you that piece either........ |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by gab
it all comes down to liabilities....... i would not knowingly sell anyone a normal harness knowing it was going into a RDS equipped chev. even though you are correct that it will work, you take on liabilities by doing so.
here is the read where the "myth" came from.
ENGLEWOOD, N.J.— BlitzSafe has decided not to ship a General Motors radio interface product because of possible liability issues in the event of an airbag deployment.
BlitzSafe's interface, called the GM RRD, is a kit that allows users to remove a GM radio and replace it with an aftermarket product without losing some of the car functions, which are now tied into the GM radio. These functions include OnStar voice communications and chimes for door open, ignition key, safety belt fasten, etc.
BlitzSafe's president Ira Marlowe said the company learned that if an airbag deployed and its GM RRD had a failure and OnStar did not work, then BlitzSafe could be liable. The critical issue is that OnStar automatically contacts the driver when an airbag is deployed and will dispatch an emergency vehicle.
"We don't know if the radio is considered a piece of safety equipment, like an airbag. So now when we talk about integration there's a big question," Marlowes said. "Even if our device works the way it should but then there's a failure and someone's life is on the line and emergency service doesn't get there, what do we do? We're confirming [the liability issue] and if it's true, it's never going to see the market."
BlitzSafe said it invested a year of R&D in the GM RRD, and it was expected to ship in November at $59.
Ron Freeman, VP of Peripheral Electronics, Clearwater, Fla., concurred. "We are unsure if it is feasible to remove the radio [completely from the bus] without causing any safety liability issues or interfering with the proper operation of the vehicle. Freeman explained that certain upscale GM cars might have even more features tied into the radio. "We have heard that in the Cadillac Seville, if you remove the radio, it communicates with the control module for the transmission, so it won't shift properly. We've heard this but can't confirm it."
SoundGate said it is not concerned with the liability issue because it engineers to a high enough standard. "It really is a matter of engineering expertise," said SoundGate president Rob Putnam. "As long as you educate your engineers, it is possible to work within those guidelines. What concerns me is the automakers are becoming more and more secretive about what they are doing with regard to their data buses," Putnam said.
Marlowe noted that the issue might have implications for the entire aftermarket. "Removing a radio in an environment when you have certain warnings and emergency service notification going through the radio, it becomes a tremendous liability. People are going to be reluctant to pull out their radios. And the aftermarket's ability to do this, without what we [integrator companies] do, is then threatened."
In the event of a liability case involving an aftermarket radio, "everyone would be brought in, including the supplier, distributor and the retailer who sold it," he said.
i guess i am a big fat idiot as well....... cuz i wouldn't have sold you that piece either........
Hey Gab, when you worked at Inno didnt you guys generally remove the board from the inside of the deck and bury it in the dash? I seem to remember having a couple vehicles come in where the guys over there had done that. If that was the case did you ever see any issue from it? |
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| Inzane |
Can I hijack for a sec... since the two of you seem to know a lot about stereo stuff. Do you know where I can get the best price on a Metra dash kit (for a b15 Sentra)?
Also looking for a Metra or Scosche "xx to Nissan" (xx being whatever stereo brand I'll get, whether it be Alpine, Pioneer, etc.) wiring harness.
I haven't bought aftermarket car audio stuff for YEARS (probably close to 10) so while those two accessory brands may be common, they're unfamiliar to me (other than hearing about them on forums). So without having looked yet I'm not sure where is the best place to go for those locally. Are these all off the shelf items at all the major big box stores?
Thanks. |
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| gab |
| thats what we did when that first came out. instead of having to relocate the factory deck to the trunk or whatever. we eventually just pulled the boards out to save having to find a spot for it in the trunk and having to run the harness back. shortly after though the modules were released and we got to fight with every customer and dealer for being "rip-off artists". but after you deal with liabilities such as standard starters driving through the basement of the regina inn........... you tend to stick to not having any liabilities.......lol |
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| Ravendarat |
| Those parts are sold basiclly everywhere and pricing is gonna be very similar, harness will be around 15 and kit should be anywhere from 20-30 bucks |
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| gab |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Can I hijack for a sec... since the two of you seem to know a lot about stereo stuff. Do you know where I can get the best price on a Metra dash kit (for a b15 Sentra)?
Also looking for a Metra or Scosche "xx to Nissan" (xx being whatever stereo brand I'll get, whether it be Alpine, Pioneer, etc.) wiring harness.
I haven't bought aftermarket car audio stuff for YEARS (probably close to 10) so while those two accessory brands may be common, they're unfamiliar to me (other than hearing about them on forums). So without having looked yet I'm not sure where is the best place to go for those locally. Are these all off the shelf items at all the major big box stores?
Thanks.
go see ravender he'll hook you up |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by gab
thats what we did when that first came out. instead of having to relocate the factory deck to the trunk or whatever. we eventually just pulled the boards out to save having to find a spot for it in the trunk and having to run the harness back. shortly after though the modules were released and we got to fight with every customer and dealer for being "rip-off artists". but after you deal with liabilities such as standard starters driving through the basement of the regina inn........... you tend to stick to not having any liabilities.......lol
I remember hearing that and also I recall audiowarehouse dumping one or two into the walls of their shop |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by gab
go see ravender he'll hook you up
Sure. Where does he work though?
(unless I'm blind and completely missed it in this thread... entirely possible.) |
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| gab |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
I remember hearing that and also I recall audiowarehouse dumping one or two into the walls of their shop
or the guy that got dragged across the floor of zeibart into a new semi......... thats still one of my faves |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Sure. Where does he work though?
(unless I'm blind and completely missed it in this thread... entirely possible.)
It wasnt posted before, I try not to promote myself on the site as I dont want to "advertise" on a site that I dont pay to support. I also dont want people to think that what I post is done just to try to shill parts or whatever. I work at Future Shop on the south end however and will be more than happy to help you out if you stop by. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by gab
or the guy that got dragged across the floor of zeibart into a new semi......... thats still one of my faves
Ya, there are some real pieces of samsonite in this industry |
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| lowryder99 |
Thing is I have done my research, on a high end vehicle like a caddy sts, sure i might spring for the 120 bucks.
And I understand the liabilty side of the installer, some might not know how to install it any other way because they wern't taught.
Thing is, I didn't really argue, just told the guy straight up what I wanted and he jumped right into a b.s. salespitch and about how smart he was. I guess that was more of the point of this thread.
Really, I am a calm guy, don't like to pick arguements and what not. I just found this case to be quite amusing. This guy never raised one good point at all, just about how smart he was and about how my airbags wouldn't work no mo. |
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| accord90 |
| I used to work at that best buy and we usually just used the best kits web site to see what vehicles needed the chip or relocation kit. I was just a sales guy and was taught more on the complete solution; product, accessories, sell the psp plan and sell the install bit. We were told to make the install sound as hard as possible to the customer and 75% of the time it worked and you would sell them on it. At best buy the scorecards usually focus on install margins and service plans so he really didn't care if he sold you a $15 harness cause its not a big sale. I worked there through grade 12 and had a job lined up after school finished so I wasn't interested in learning all the install stuff. In Shayne's defense I would have told you it might screw something up but probably would have sold it to you knowing your background. Best buy installers are generally told to cover their ass and be safe. Last I heard Shayne was the Car-fi supervisor but I haven't been back in a while so who knows. |
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