| white99GT |
| Today I was thinking about the time I got a speeding ticket in the doorway of my home. I was coming home from work around 11 p.m. at my usual rate of speed at the time (let's say rather briskly) and by the time the car was in the garage and the door had almost closed I saw the cherries under the door. I immediately did a u-turn to the front door where a pair of officers gave me the usual license and registration bit. I knew there was no way in hell it was gonna stand up in court so I cooperated, but it made me wonder...is there any possible chance they could make it stick? Obviously I went to court and they said no certificate of speed and I was outta there. Seems unlikely to me since speeding is a moving violation and you'd at least have to be driving your car to be issued one. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
Today I was thinking about the time I got a speeding ticket in the doorway of my home. I was coming home from work around 11 p.m. at my usual rate of speed at the time (let's say rather briskly) and by the time the car was in the garage and the door had almost closed I saw the cherries under the door. I immediately did a u-turn to the front door where a pair of officers gave me the usual license and registration bit. I knew there was no way in hell it was gonna stand up in court so I cooperated, but it made me wonder...is there any possible chance they could make it stick? Obviously I went to court and they said no certificate of speed and I was outta there. Seems unlikely to me since speeding is a moving violation and you'd at least have to be driving your car to be issued one.
I don't understand. You're saying unless you're moving, you can't get a ticket? But you stop in order to have the officer issue a ticket. In your case, the problem is your garage door had closed. They issue the fine to the person, not the vehicle, so they had no way to prove it was you driving. Had they caught you in your driveway instead of in your garage, it would have been much easier for them to prove you were the one responsible. |
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| white99GT |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
I don't understand. You're saying unless you're moving, you can't get a ticket? But you stop in order to have the officer issue a ticket. In your case, the problem is your garage door had closed. They issue the fine to the person, not the vehicle, so they had no way to prove it was you driving. Had they caught you in your driveway instead of in your garage, it would have been much easier for them to prove you were the one responsible.
I never thought of it that way, but no, what I was saying was there are different types of tickets a person can get. A parking ticket, for example. Not a moving violation. Speeding ticket is. At the point you're pulled over for speeding officers are preventing you from continuing with the offense with which you are charged. Obviously officers aren't throwing citations out their windows at you. :p
My problem wasn't the garage door was closed, THEIR problem was they couldn't catch up with me to pull me over. Heh. But thanks for the reply. :) |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
I never thought of it that way, but no, what I was saying was there are different types of tickets a person can get. A parking ticket, for example. Not a moving violation. Speeding ticket is. At the point you're pulled over for speeding officers are preventing you from continuing with the offense with which you are charged. Obviously officers aren't throwing citations out their windows at you. :p
My problem wasn't the garage door was closed, THEIR problem was they couldn't catch up with me to pull me over. Heh. But thanks for the reply. :)
They don't have to catch up with you though. That isn't part of the legal requirements to make a ticket valid. Otherwise anyone who ran from the cops and made it would be let off scott free, but it usually doesn't work that way. |
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| Stainless |
| On a tangent, how are murderers ever convicted when the police don't catch them red-handed? |
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| white99GT |
In order to be issued the handwritten ticket and charged with an offense, in this case it obviously was a legal requirement since it didn't hold up in court. Getting a photo radar ticket is something different, of course, as you're not pulled over for that, but you also do not suffer demerit penalties, etc. I didn't run from them, either, I didn't even know they were behind me until the car was parked. I think they were on the opposite side of the street when they initially saw me and there simply wasn't enough time to cross over and catch up with me since I already had some serious momentum. Not saying you said I did, just a FYI. ;)
I'm also interested in this 'certificate of speed' business. Does the speed measuring equipment generate some sort of printout with data that has to be presented in court?
Catching a murderer red-handed is pretty tough...most people have a plan to kill and then suicide or simply try to cover their tracks and eliminate the evidence if they're smart. Because of this, the law has to provide an explanation for every facet of the case and even the smallest doubt in a judge's/jury's mind can be the determining factor regarding whether the accused goes free. So, yeah, they have to be sure 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that you're the killer to convict you. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
In order to be issued the handwritten ticket and charged with an offense, in this case it obviously was a legal requirement since it didn't hold up in court. Getting a photo radar ticket is something different, of course, as you're not pulled over for that, but you also do not suffer demerit penalties, etc. I didn't run from them, either, I didn't even know they were behind me until the car was parked. I think they were on the opposite side of the street when they initially saw me and there simply wasn't enough time to cross over and catch up with me since I already had some serious momentum. Not saying you said I did, just a FYI. ;)
I'm also interested in this 'certificate of speed' business. Does the speed measuring equipment generate some sort of printout with data that has to be presented in court?
Catching a murderer red-handed is pretty tough...most people have a plan to kill and then suicide or simply try to cover their tracks and eliminate the evidence if they're smart. Because of this, the law has to provide an explanation for every facet of the case and even the smallest doubt in a judge's/jury's mind can be the determining factor regarding whether the accused goes free. So, yeah, they have to be sure 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that you're the killer to convict you.
So because your ticket was tossed, that's proof every situation similar to yours is invalid? That's pretty bold. Some people have had enlarged muffler tickets tossed, others have had to pay the fine. So which is it? One case does not define legality, merely established or maintains precedent.
In order to be issued a handwritten ticket and charged with an offence......the cop needs to handwrite a ticket and charge with the offence. The question isn't what "can" they do, it's what holds up in court. I've never heard of a "certificate of speed". No, the radar does not spit out a peice of paper, though as a general rule officers have access to calibration certificates showing the equipment was calibrated within the prescribed time frame. Most likely, what was meant was that the officers couldn't certify you were the one who was speeding.
Again...the didn't catch you in your car, or getting out of the drivers seat. They caught your car speeding, followed it, and by the time they caught up to you, you were inside your garage and the door was closing. They could not certify that you were the person behind the wheel because of that. Had the pulled up, watched you get out of your car in the driveway, and issued the ticket, it probably would've been held up.
Something you noted: beyond a reasonable doubt. It does NOT apply to non-criminal cases. Yes, works for murder. Doesn't work here. Just in case you weren't sure. I realize you brought that up in response to Stainless' comment about murder, but I want to ensure there is no confusion. |
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| white99GT |
Oh, man...your post is so LOL. If I had asked you to type a reply with the topic "What we already know in 1000 words or less" it would have been perfect. I love how you describe the situation to me like I wasn't actually there at the time. You seem like the perfect personality type for law enforcement, ass clenched and not an ounce of humor.
:lol: |
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| Stainless |
The "ass clenched no humour" former officer isn't here to joke around. He helps people with issues pertaining to traffic related laws.
He has given some great advice to people and his posts are always readable, even if a few go long.
I see you are new here, it's not nexopia, and there are some members who actually contribute, he is one of them.
His post was 100% relevant to the topic, and your response was something that the personality type of "ass" would post. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
Oh, man...your post is so LOL. If I had asked you to type a reply with the topic "What we already know in 1000 words or less" it would have been perfect. I love how you describe the situation to me like I wasn't actually there at the time. You seem like the perfect personality type for law enforcement, ass clenched and not an ounce of humor.
:lol:
Except you apparently didn't grasp the concept of "behind a closed garage door" and "in plain sight". I agree, I posted what I had said in the post before, but since you dismissed my first post I figured I better explain it again. If you still don't get it, I can get out my box of crayola's and draw you a big pretty picture. |
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| white99GT |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
Except you apparently didn't grasp the concept of "behind a closed garage door" and "in plain sight". I agree, I posted what I had said in the post before, but since you dismissed my first post I figured I better explain it again. If you still don't get it, I can get out my box of crayola's and draw you a big pretty picture.
No, sir, that would be beneath you. Better have your teenage fanboy do it for you. "Crayolas" requires no apostrophe. It appears your english/spelling/grammar skills might be about the "Crayola" level, though.
I dismiss what I believe to be speculation, not fact. You don't sound like you're any more knowledgeable on the subject than I am, you simply act otherwise because people in law enforcement need such things for their egos. I have been a legal professional in my life, as well. I don't need the law or common sense explained to me.
No more replies. Have a great day and enjoy the last word. :beer: |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
No, sir, that would be beneath you. Better have your teenage fanboy do it for you. "Crayolas" requires no apostrophe. It appears your english/spelling/grammar skills might be about the "Crayola" level, though.
I dismiss what I believe to be speculation, not fact. You don't sound like you're any more knowledgeable on the subject than I am, you simply act otherwise because people in law enforcement need such things for their egos. I have been a legal professional in my life, as well. I don't need the law or common sense explained to me.
No more replies. Have a great day and enjoy the last word. :beer:
Go for spelling. Good one. :thumbup: Hit those critical points.
So, you've been a legal professional, yet you can't grasp the difference between "they saw a closing garage door" and "they saw the driver get out of the vehicle in plain sight"? If you don't think that makes a difference at all, you need to re-review pretty much every statute, precedent, regulation and article written about rules of evidence. Come here and say you know as much as I do, or that I don't know what I'm talking about all you want, but the inability to grasp a basic legal concept (and immediately going for spelling and grammar because of an inability to refute what's said) makes any insult you toss at me laughable in my eyes.
I'm glad a legal professional came to a random car forum to ask a legal question. God knows this would be a MUCH better resource than your friends from that career. :lol:
Keep going with your "cops have egos" thing. I didn't have an ego as a cop. I got my ego when I was doing the most stressful job on the planet. Where I was responsible for more lives in an hour than a surgeon is throughout his entire career. Where mistakes have mere seconds to be fixed until hundreds of people die, and that includes my mistakes and the mistakes of others. Where anything short of constant, total vigilance and unerring belief in what you say being correct and true, even when it's not, to ensure the people on the other end of the radio don't question my abilities or confidence, is merely a daily fact of life.
Yeah. I have an ego. I'm arrogant. I'm condescending. I'm imaptient. I'm misanthropic. And I think I'm better than most people I meet. I'm also selfish and superficial in thought, despite being not so selfish and superficial in deed. You wanna keep slinging insults and try to hurt my feelings more by saying I have an ego? Go for it. Won't phase me. Because this an internet forum.
The end result is: I didn't come here to ask a question, then question the response and start to insult the person who provided an answer while completely dismissing their logic and demonstrate a complete inability to comprehend the basic topic they brought up. In short....I can walk away from here anytime I want. Stop answering questions and be gone. Do I think I'm irreplaceable? Of course not. Others will, and always do, step in and answer questions. I would hardly be missed. But I think you get my point...I get NOTHING from this. YOU needed an answer. I GAVE you an answer. You don't like it and you obviously didn't understand it, but YOU needed something. Not me.
So if you aren't coming back why the big lecture? Others will read it. Others who may think twice before being a douchebag. I explain things like I'm talking to children and people get upset with me for being insulting. See the guy asking about his first speeding ticket for proof. I don't explain like I'm talking to children and the people asking don't understand and then insult me and try and claim to be legal professionals coming to a car forum full of 16 year olds to ask a legal question. I can't win. And luckily for me: I don't NEED anything from here, so I have no need to win. I just get to sick back and laugh.
Thanks for the last word. It's always fun. :D |
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