| Bince |
Ok, I just got my first speeding ticket tonight. I was heading down Yellowhead Trail around 11:30pm or so, and from an on ramp comes a light blue Lincoln, which turned out to be the no profile cop car. So he lights me up and I pull over. He instantly came over told me how fast as I was going, I gave him my license and reg. and all and he left and came back, gave me my gear and ticket. Now I don't know if I was going 90. (by the way the ticket says 90 in a 70 zone.) But I sure didn't think it was worth pulling me over but all I thought was, well shit, is there much you can do after a cop issues you your ticket.... maybe I could have asked to see his laser radar...I dunno if you can. But my parents and I just want to know, do you think the cop actually laser radared me?(they didn't even think cops could use laser radar while moving/accelerating) or did he just pull me over because I was passing him? keep in mind he did just come onto the Yellowhead from an onramp....
just wanting to know.... |
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| TrevorK |
quote:
Originally posted by Bince
maybe I could have asked to see his laser radar...I dunno if you can.
No, he does not have to show it to you.
quote:
But my parents and I just want to know, do you think the cop actually laser radared me?(they didn't even think cops could use laser radar while moving/accelerating) or did he just pull me over because I was passing him? keep in mind he did just come onto the Yellowhead from an onramp....
Yes - cops can get you with radar while you and them are moving.
How do you know that they didn't tag you on the bridge? On 97st bridge they often sit up top and flag people going eastbound, then speed down the onramp to catch you. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Bince
Ok, I just got my first speeding ticket tonight. I was heading down Yellowhead Trail around 11:30pm or so, and from an on ramp comes a light blue Lincoln, which turned out to be the no profile cop car. So he lights me up and I pull over. He instantly came over told me how fast as I was going, I gave him my license and reg. and all and he left and came back, gave me my gear and ticket. Now I don't know if I was going 90. (by the way the ticket says 90 in a 70 zone.) But I sure didn't think it was worth pulling me over but all I thought was, well shit, is there much you can do after a cop issues you your ticket.... maybe I could have asked to see his laser radar...I dunno if you can. But my parents and I just want to know, do you think the cop actually laser radared me?(they didn't even think cops could use laser radar while moving/accelerating) or did he just pull me over because I was passing him? keep in mind he did just come onto the Yellowhead from an onramp....
just wanting to know....
Physics 101. Laser provides instantaneous velocity. So speeding up, slowing down, oncoming, same direction, it's all irrelevant. If I asked my old man a question about laser radar, he'd kick me in the pants for being a retard.
You were going 20 over. That's "not worth his time"? At what point do you draw the line in the sand? 30 over? 50 over?
Now that we've covered physics, how about an English lesson?
In legal terms, a limit is
quote:
Law. to fix or assign definitely or specifically.
In plain old English, a limit is
quote:
the final, utmost, or furthest boundary or point as to extent, amount, continuance, procedure, etc
FURTHEST. For example.... 0.08 is the legal limit at which you are considered an impaired driver. Does that mean 0.085 is ok because there's leeway? No. 0.08 is "the limit", the "furthest point". In other words, if the speed limit is "70km/hr", that means the fastest you can legally travel is "70km/hr". At 71km/hr, you're breaking the law: you're officially a criminal. Just because there's a generally accepted "grey area" doesn't mean you were only "10km/hr over what they normally pull you over for", you were still "20km/hr" over the prescribed limit.
As for does he have anything better to do......I dunno. You tell me what you do in your job and I'll create a scenario to explain how "traffic enforcement" works. Better yet, I'll make up a pretend one.
Let's say you're a wet sander at a body shop. You're trained and paid to sand. You're not a painter. If there's no sanding to be done, but 5 cars sanded, prepped and waiting to be painted, and a car comes in to be sanded, do you paint because there's more to do there, or do you sand the new car?
You sand. Why? It's your job. Now maybe you want to be a painter. Really badly. Maybe your goal in life is to paint cars. But to do that, you have to start off detailing, then sanding, then prepping and then finally they'll train you and pay you to paint. So now, you may HATE sanding, but LOVE painting, and you're just putting in your time until you can paint.
How does that apply? Not every cop can investigate murders. Not every cop can catch bank robbers. Not every cop goes undercover narco. Not every cops can work the gang beat. Etc etc. How do they get those jobs? Perform well in lower level jobs, put in their time, and get promoted.
So, you're best friend was killed by a bunch of meth addicts when you were young. You're whole life you've grown up wanting to get meth off the streets. You graduate high school, volunteer a lot, take a few years in college, then join the police force. Are you busting junkies?
No. You're working traffic. 9-11 calls come in, you ignore them. They aren't for you. It's not your job. The last thing anyone wants is an untrained, unseasoned officer kicking in a door on a domestic dispute call, throw around his weight, show no compassion and suggest no real ways to permanently resolve the issue. So he ONLY does traffic.
3 or 4 years down the road, he's performed well. He's proven to be just and fair, to be cool under pressure, to exercise good judgement and due diligence. Maybe now he gets promoted to Patrol. Now he responds to 9-11 calls. And if isn't on a call and he's waiting for something, he's out getting to know the public, usually the poor or those with a lower mental capacity because that's who's on the streets and gives good info. Info he relays to gang, family, bunko, or the job he wants, narco. And if he witnesses something really dangerous, like a guy driving 80 over the limit, he might do something if he isn't busy.
3 or 4 years after that, he might get offered a junior position in narco. Or a position in evidence leading to a shield in narco. Or something he really wants instead of dealing with the same complaints on the same people, and issuing speeding and exhaust tickets.
But if he doesn't issue enough tickets...in short, if he doesn't do his job, he will never get that chance. And to be fair, lots of guys fully understand the dangers of speeding, the reasons exhuasts shouldn't be loud, why distracting cars and driving is dangerous, etc, so he has no problems enforcing those laws.
So no, he probably DOESN'T have anything to do, because he's entire job, his entire reason for being in that car on the streets, is to issue fines for TRAFFIC violations or arrest for CRIMINAL violations he witnessess personally. End of story. That's the way the system works.
So yes, sometimes you get overzealous rookies who are just jackasses hassling young kids working traffic. But chances are they won't leave traffic. Would you rather get a violation for breaking the law only a little, or have inappropriate responses by inexperienced officer when lives are actually on the line? |
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| Bince |
yeah I did expect to get something like this from dtjohnst....
Ok, chill. You make it sound like you want to kill me cause I am not saying yeah..... the police officer should have pulled me over and given me the ticket. One way or another I got it, Whether I choose to like it is up to me and I know there are many people out there who do the same. Lets not go crazy just cause I don't idolize the cops as much as you. I like the very creative explanation though thats some crazy thinking your doing.
anyway, all I said was
quote:
I sure didn't think it was worth pulling me over
all I meant by that was it seemed to me that I was going with the flow of traffic, and I didn't see a reason to pull me over out of the all the cars on the Yellowhead. Yes, I was going over the speed limit. I was in the left lane sometimes referred to as "the passing lane" and I had to speed to get around a few folks. All I was stating is that I wasn't the only one passing other cars, in fact I was following a truck that was doing the same as I was, and TO ME it seemed as though I wasn't speeding that much compared to the cars around me and throughout my drive down the Yellowhead.
Its probably not the first time you heard about a person thinking that its ok if your going with the flow of traffic. I actually think your told that in your drivers ed.....
And Trevor I think that could be entirely possible, I personally havent seen it ever happen tho |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Bince
yeah I did expect to get something like this from dtjohnst....
Ok, chill. You make it sound like you want to kill me cause I am not saying yeah..... the police officer should have pulled me over and given me the ticket. One way or another I got it, Whether I choose to like it is up to me and I know there are many people out there who do the same. Lets not go crazy just cause I don't idolize the cops as much as you. I like the very creative explanation though thats some crazy thinking your doing.
anyway, all I said was
all I meant by that was it seemed to me that I was going with the flow of traffic, and I didn't see a reason to pull me over out of the all the cars on the Yellowhead. Yes, I was going over the speed limit. I was in the left lane sometimes referred to as "the passing lane" and I had to speed to get around a few folks. All I was stating is that I wasn't the only one passing other cars, in fact I was following a truck that was doing the same as I was, and TO ME it seemed as though I wasn't speeding that much compared to the cars around me and throughout my drive down the Yellowhead.
Its probably not the first time you heard about a person thinking that its ok if your going with the flow of traffic. I actually think your told that in your drivers ed.....
And Trevor I think that could be entirely possible, I personally havent seen it ever happen tho
Yes: the left lane is the passing lane....not the "speeding lane". You didn't "have to speed", because you didn't "have to pass". Even on a single lane, undivided highway you aren't "allowed to speed" to pass a car, you're supposed to maintain the limit or less at all times. So that certainly doesn't apply on a 3-4 lane divided highway. If the guy you passed was "slower" than the limit, you could have passed him going the limit. If he wasn't, you shouldn't be passing him.
Why didn't the cop stop the guy in front of you? Probably for the same reason he didn't stop the guy in front of him, or the guy 4 blocks over, or the guy who blew the stop sign on the other side of town, or anyone else. He can only pull over 1 person at a time. You drew the shit end of the stick, sucks to be you, but if you don't break the law, you have nothing to fear.
As for going with the flow.......that is a valid reason. You should go with the flow. But you said you were passing.....in the far left lane. "Going with the flow" doesn't mean 10-15km/hr faster than the flow, it means the same speed as all the cars around you, and that exception exists because cars driving slower than the flow of traffic is dangerous. Passing traffic that's already speeding does NOT apply, and you can't say you're going with the flow if you also claim you're passing.
Don't make comments about how cops have better things to do or you weren't doing anything wrong 'cause you were only "kinda" speeding, and you won't get the lectures. I don't "idolize" cops, I just happen to understand the job, something those who ask if they have "anything better to do" obviously don't. There's a giant difference there. Just 'cause you don't get it doesn't mean I worship the ground LEO's walk on. If I thought that, don't you think I'd still be doing that job? |
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| Stainless |
Cop: You were speeding.
Speeder: I was going the same speed as everyone else!
Cop: Do you fish?
Speeder: Yeah, sometimes I head out to the lake.
Cop: Did you ever catch all of the fish? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Stainless
Cop: You were speeding.
Speeder: I was going the same speed as everyone else!
Cop: Do you fish?
Speeder: Yeah, sometimes I head out to the lake.
Cop: Did you ever catch all of the fish?
At once...since he just might ticket every single one of those people eventually.... |
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| 91laserrs |
quote:
Originally posted by Stainless
Cop: You were speeding.
Speeder: I was going the same speed as everyone else!
Cop: Do you fish?
Speeder: Yeah, sometimes I head out to the lake.
Cop: Did you ever catch all of the fish?
very nice example i love it. |
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| DivineRight |
It still amazes me how grown men and women still use excuses that 5 year olds use..."everyone else is doing it too!"
Last weekend, my buddy who is a city cop came over and told us a story. He pulled a guy over on 97th St southbound, somewhere between yellowhead trail and 118 ave. The guy was speeding, doing 90 something when it is clearly posted that the limit is 60. Here was the conversation:
My Buddy: "Sir, the reason I pulled you over is because you were speeding"
The Guy: "Yes, sir, I was speeding."
My Buddy: "Why were you driving so fast, are you late for brain surgery or something?"
The Guy: "Actually, yes, well sort of, I'm a surgeon at the RAH" *Shows his doctor's id tag"* "I got called in to do an emergency surgery."
My Buddy: "Alright then, I'll block traffic for you there Doc."
And my buddy helped the doctor get to the hospital. I know for a fact that he would never ticket someone who had a legitimate reason for speeding. The problem is, 9 out of 10 people who think they are great people, who "speed occassionally", "who only occassionally cut people off", "who sometimes forget to use their signal lights", "who will sometimes run a yellow light *I swear it was yellow and not red*" feel that they are somehow not breaking the law when caught and figure that an excuse like "Everyone else is doing it, thats why I was too." will be good enough. That is, until they are victims of crime. |
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| Ethanol |
quote:
Originally posted by DivineRight
It still amazes me how grown men and women still use excuses that 5 year olds use..."everyone else is doing it too!"
Last weekend, my buddy who is a city cop came over and told us a story. He pulled a guy over on 97th St southbound, somewhere between yellowhead trail and 118 ave. The guy was speeding, doing 90 something when it is clearly posted that the limit is 60. Here was the conversation:
My Buddy: "Sir, the reason I pulled you over is because you were speeding"
The Guy: "Yes, sir, I was speeding."
My Buddy: "Why were you driving so fast, are you late for brain surgery or something?"
The Guy: "Actually, yes, well sort of, I'm a surgeon at the RAH" *Shows his doctor's id tag"* "I got called in to do an emergency surgery."
My Buddy: "Alright then, I'll block traffic for you there Doc."
And my buddy helped the doctor get to the hospital. I know for a fact that he would never ticket someone who had a legitimate reason for speeding. The problem is, 9 out of 10 people who think they are great people, who "speed occassionally", "who only occassionally cut people off", "who sometimes forget to use their signal lights", "who will sometimes run a yellow light *I swear it was yellow and not red*" feel that they are somehow not breaking the law when caught and figure that an excuse like "Everyone else is doing it, thats why I was too." will be good enough. That is, until they are victims of crime.
Is that actually allowed.. like.. my friend had a peanut allergy reaction (close to being severe) and she did not have her pen... so... if she had trouble breathing i would drive her to the hospital.. question is.. would i be able to speed to the hospital and run a few reds (empty intersections) and not get killed by fines/suspensions? |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by Ethanol
Is that actually allowed.. like.. my friend had a peanut allergy reaction (close to being severe) and she did not have her pen... so... if she had trouble breathing i would drive her to the hospital.. question is.. would i be able to speed to the hospital and run a few reds (empty intersections) and not get killed by fines/suspensions?
No. It's not. Even if they were a doctor, they aren't "allowed" to speed. You might get away with it once...MAYBE. But you'll be told in no uncertain terms that you should call an ambulance. Sure, an ambulance might get to your house in about 3/4 the time it would take you to get the hospital, and therefore arrive at the hospital much later than you could have.....but that's why paramedics have tools like defibrillators, IV's, plasma, intubation bags, and epinephren. |
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| SkiTLz |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
No. It's not. Even if they were a doctor, they aren't "allowed" to speed. You might get away with it once...MAYBE. But you'll be told in no uncertain terms that you should call an ambulance. Sure, an ambulance might get to your house in about 3/4 the time it would take you to get the hospital, and therefore arrive at the hospital much later than you could have.....but that's why paramedics have tools like defibrillators, IV's, plasma, intubation bags, and epinephren.
They'll also charge you up the ass for the privelage of those things..
Im far from pro cops as most people know.. But if you where pulled over doing 20-30 over in an actuall emergency.. It'd take a pretty big dickhead to ticket you. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by SkiTLz
They'll also charge you up the ass for the privelage of those things..
Im far from pro cops as most people know.. But if you where pulled over doing 20-30 over in an actuall emergency.. It'd take a pretty big dickhead to ticket you.
Why? There are very strict rules ambulance drivers follow. There are very specific driving courses they take. There are tests they have to pass. You thinking you're allowed because an ambulance is "too expensive" might cost more lives. You run a red, hit a pedestrian. Speed excessively, lose control and hit 2 other cars. Etc. By allowing you to do that, an officer knowingly and willingly endangers more lives than the life in your passenger seat. Oh sure, you MIGHT get a warning IF your passenger looks VERY sick. But he'll also radio an ambulance and you won't have the ability to say "no, it costs too much."
I don't care how good a driver you think you are, you are NOT an ambulance. You make the road dangerous when you TRY to be. You don't have the knowledge or training AND you're distracted. An ambulance has 1 guy who doesn't have to talk to or calm to patient, or do anything other than go 30 over the limit at most and make sure he doesn't hit anyone or anything else. And he goes no more than 30 over with big lights and a loud siren. Chances are you'd go MUCH faster than that if you're panicking enough to speed a friend to a hospital, which means the danger increases exponentially.
It doesn't take a dickhead to give you a ticket, it takes a cop who's doing his job to give you a ticket. He doesn't exist to protect one person at a time. He exists to protect as many as possible. And getting your friend in an ambulance and our of your car protects a lot of people. And as soon as your friend is out of car, he can tell you what hospital they're going to and detain you while he writes up your ticket.
If you think you'll get away with it because there's an "emergency", think again. You MIGHT. I emphasize MIGHT because the cop might cut you a break. But that is by no means a guarantee, and that doesn't make him an asshole.
If your friend is truly experiencing a "medical emergency", the cost of an ambulance is a pretty small price to pay. Especially since if it's a "real" emergency, chances are he'll be unconcious before you get halfway to the hospital, he'll stop breathing, his throat will compeltely close off, something. You can't trach him, you can't defibrillate an irregular rythm, you can't intubate him. You can panic and drive faster and more distracted. But those are all things an ambulance can do, while moving (ok, they might stop to trach, but usually they intubate before it gets that far and your friend doesn't have a scar on his throat for the rest of his life).
Don't be so cheap. If it's bad enough you have to speed, call an ambulance. If it's not bad enough to call an ambulance, it's not bad enough to speed. |
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| SkiTLz |
quote:
Originally posted by dtjohnst
Why? There are very strict rules ambulance drivers follow. There are very specific driving courses they take. There are tests they have to pass. You thinking you're allowed because an ambulance is "too expensive" might cost more lives. You run a red, hit a pedestrian. Speed excessively, lose control and hit 2 other cars. Etc. By allowing you to do that, an officer knowingly and willingly endangers more lives than the life in your passenger seat. Oh sure, you MIGHT get a warning IF your passenger looks VERY sick. But he'll also radio an ambulance and you won't have the ability to say "no, it costs too much."
I don't care how good a driver you think you are, you are NOT an ambulance. You make the road dangerous when you TRY to be. You don't have the knowledge or training AND you're distracted. An ambulance has 1 guy who doesn't have to talk to or calm to patient, or do anything other than go 30 over the limit at most and make sure he doesn't hit anyone or anything else. And he goes no more than 30 over with big lights and a loud siren. Chances are you'd go MUCH faster than that if you're panicking enough to speed a friend to a hospital, which means the danger increases exponentially.
It doesn't take a dickhead to give you a ticket, it takes a cop who's doing his job to give you a ticket. He doesn't exist to protect one person at a time. He exists to protect as many as possible. And getting your friend in an ambulance and our of your car protects a lot of people. And as soon as your friend is out of car, he can tell you what hospital they're going to and detain you while he writes up your ticket.
If you think you'll get away with it because there's an "emergency", think again. You MIGHT. I emphasize MIGHT because the cop might cut you a break. But that is by no means a guarantee, and that doesn't make him an asshole.
If your friend is truly experiencing a "medical emergency", the cost of an ambulance is a pretty small price to pay. Especially since if it's a "real" emergency, chances are he'll be unconcious before you get halfway to the hospital, he'll stop breathing, his throat will compeltely close off, something. You can't trach him, you can't defibrillate an irregular rythm, you can't intubate him. You can panic and drive faster and more distracted. But those are all things an ambulance can do, while moving (ok, they might stop to trach, but usually they intubate before it gets that far and your friend doesn't have a scar on his throat for the rest of his life).
Don't be so cheap. If it's bad enough you have to speed, call an ambulance. If it's not bad enough to call an ambulance, it's not bad enough to speed.
You need fuckin therapy dude.. Im not even reading that.. Ive never wanted to punch someone square in the fuckin nose as much as i do you..
You bring out the best in me.. |
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| dtjohnst |
quote:
Originally posted by SkiTLz
You need fuckin therapy dude.. Im not even reading that.. Ive never wanted to punch someone square in the fuckin nose as much as i do you..
You bring out the best in me..
You have obvious rage problems, but I need therapy? :lol:
Yeah, tell me you wanna hurt me, that'll make it stop. WTF happened to ignore? Just put me back on it and everyone can stop reading useless posts from you just trying to hurt my feelings.
EDIT:
Incidently, one of the biggest douchebag things someone can do is come to a law enforcement thread and say it's ok to break the law because only an asshole cop will ticket you for it. The responses here should be limited to "what is legal", not what does some retard who emphasizes how much he makes all the time and has way too big an ego think is fair and I can get away with. |
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| DivineRight |
People need to realize that (most know this but sometimes forget) that police officers are humans too. I know my buddy, I have been best friends with him for almost 2 decades now and he is pretty level headed.
He told me this when he first joined the city police and he still says it all the time, "Anything that I do or do not do, I make sure that I am able to look at myself in the mirror and sleep well at night."
I shared that story to show that police officers can and will use discretion. I know this and my buddy has also told me this that no two cops are the same, so everyone does things differently.
Nobody is ever actually "allowed" to break the law. Doctors aren't allowed to contravene the rules of the road in order to do their jobs. Just like Police officers aren't supposed to give warnings when they observe people speeding, making illegal turns, forgetting to wear their seat belts, ect.
I have another story from just last week. I called him to see what his schedule was like this weekend while he was at work. He was at the RAH with a 93 year old lady who was suffering from Alzheimers and wasn't in the state of mind to take care of herself. They found this old lady at a Safeway, she went and bought groceries, paid for them and everything, then proceeded to put everything back in the store. Then she hid in the corner of the store and soiled her pants.
Anyhow, long story short, it turned out some over-zealous bylaw guy gave her a ticket for failing to remove snow from her sidewalk. Obviouslly, the guy was doing his job but I doubt he checked this lady's age. The ticket went to warrant because she hadn't been checking her mail as 90 year old alzheimers sufferers tend to forget these things.
My buddy didn't execute the warrant, instead he took her to the RAH so that she could get a doctor's assement and have a mental health crisis team follow-up with her. He also put in a report to the courts to have the charges dropped.
Ethanol, the answer to your question is "No". That is like asking "if someone breaks into my house, could I take my shotgun and shoot his head off?"
All I am saying is that cops are people too, the screening process and the training that they go through is tougher than anything most people will ever experience. They are able to use discretion but the problem with discretion is that too many people abuse it. I'm sure there are people in this forum reading this and saying to themselves "I got an assault charge, I'm a good person, why didn't the cop who arrested me appeal to the courts like they did for this 93 year old grandma with a warrant for not shoveling her snow?" It boggles the mind at how selfish and stupid some people are.
Its like Bince who was speeding. The question isn't whether or not he was speeding because he already admitted that he was speeding and was breaking the law, the question is the manner in which he was caught. The trend these days isn't whether or not a criminal committed a crime, it is how the police officer caught them that is put on trial. Pretty stupid if you ask me. |
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| dtjohnst |
Nice post divine. The only comment I disagree with is that an officer isn't "supposed to let people off". An officer is supposed to take every situation as unique and individual. Evaluate state of mind, motive, outside influences, etc. A guy who's drunk in public because his wife of 30 years just died of cancer probably doesn't deserve to be tossed in the tank or ticketed. A lift home and the phone number for group councilling for grieving might be right on the nose. At the very least, calling him a cab.
Not everyone is able to do the right thing all the time. An officers job is to evaluate a situation and do what's best. Sometimes the best thing is cutting someone slack.
If the EPS policy is that they aren't supposed to give warnings ever, I think they should revamp their policy. Because it defies the very spirit of policing. |
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| Ethanol |
quote:
Originally posted by DivineRight
Ethanol, the answer to your question is "No". That is like asking "if someone breaks into my house, could I take my shotgun and shoot his head off?"
I know, I thank you all for allowing me to realize that an ambulance would be better/safer than all other options. thanks everyone for your posts on my question. (NOT being sarcastic)
btw. "if someone breaks into my house, could I take my shotgun and shoot his head off?" the answer is yes, in Thailand. probably not in Canada though.;) |
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| Jord@n |
| Pay the ticket, learn your lesson ;) |
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