| Ravendarats' electronics advice thread - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| BErettin |
just post any 12V questions in here.. amps/ wiring/ flux compasitors
ask and you shall receive the all mighty knowledge:bowdown:
YOUR WELCOME BARRY!:lol: |
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| gab |
| what colour remote wire should i be running for the best turn on capabilities? |
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| sparkycivic |
| what might happen if i accidentally wire the neutral wire on my "flux compacitor" to the fourth post? |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by gab
what colour remote wire should i be running for the best turn on capabilities?
Contrary to popular belief, it is not blue but infact green. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by sparkycivic
what might happen if i accidentally wire the neutral wire on my "flux compacitor" to the fourth post?
Your time travel will be adversly affected by about 5 years either way. Hard to predict and not recomended. |
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| Ravendarat |
| For the record Gab could pretty much school my ass whenever he feels like it |
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| Altezza |
| haha your own thread barry. :lol: |
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| gab |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
For the record Gab could pretty much school my ass whenever he feels like it
SOUNDS LIKE A DRINKIN CONTEST!!!!! :beer: |
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| Altezza |
quote:
Originally posted by gab
SOUNDS LIKE A DRINKIN CONTEST!!!!! :beer:
Barry doesnt drink that might be a little hard to do haha |
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| gab |
| if he doesn't drink it sounds like it'll be pretty easy.......:dunno: |
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| Ravendarat |
| Ya your gonna win this one by default buddy. What can I say, Im the ONE installer in the world who doesnt drink |
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| chris f |
| if i have two 12 " subs in a ported box, 4ohm vc each, hooked up in parallel, with a sensitivity of 87, whats my spl at 1000wts? |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
if i have two 12 " subs in a ported box, 4ohm vc each, hooked up in parallel, with a sensitivity of 87, whats my spl at 1000wts?
Im not Miss Cleo here. There are many more factors involved in this question. Vehicle resonate frequency, box tunning, 1000 watts rms or peak, source used, mic placement and those are just to name a few. The only way to fet a truly accurate answer to this vague question would be to get your vehicle metered with a term lab mic or something similar. Pretty much anyone who is anyone will tell you that you arent going to predict the actual SPL output of a vehicle. You can get a close guestimation by running all the numbers but there is always an x factor involved and thats why no one in their right mind would ever make the concrete statement that "your vehicle is going to hit 1XX.X dbs" with any real certainty. Educated guesses can be made but its never a sure thing |
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| chris f |
| spl is sensativity, at 1000w in a lab would be 156db |
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| Altezza |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
spl is sensativity, at 1000w in a lab would be 156db
And how did you come to this conclusion? |
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| gab |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
spl is sensativity, at 1000w in a lab would be 156db
thats a pretty impressive number for 2 12's. hell, thats an impressive number for 4 15's.
so impressive it's unbelieveable.
but what do i know...... i am one of those installers that drink........ |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
spl is sensativity, at 1000w in a lab would be 156db
Whats funny is you try to be a smart ass but actually come off looking kinda "special Needs" to anyone with a clue. SPL is not sensitivity and wts is not a reconized industry ackronym (sp) nor does it tell me if its RMS power or peak power. Sensitivity is measered at 1 watt for 1 meter away, but this will not translate into a spl reading off of a meter in a competition. You failed to specify enviroment or any of the other factors in my previous post. In short you failed at this challenge. |
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| Altezza |
| you fail at teh subvoofer talk |
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| chris f |
1 12 in a box, sealed with a sensativity of 87 db 1w-1ft, add anther 12 and it goes up 3db, port the box and it goes up anther 3db. run them in paralel and you get anther 3db. so at 1 watt your now at 96db, for every rise of 3db you need to dubble you output,
96db-1w
99db-2w
102db-4w
105db-8w
108db-16w
111db-32w
114db-64w
117db-128w
120db-256w
123db-512w
126db-1024w, and yes i got my math wrong at frist as you can see
Thats how it works.
What you faild to see is, think of me as "special needs" but i would not post on a fourm sugesting that im a know it all at car audio. i could ask you qustions that would have you asking everyone you know for answers and searching the internet all night. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
1 12 in a box, sealed with a sensativity of 87 db 1w-1ft, add anther 12 and it goes up 3db, port the box and it goes up anther 3db. run them in paralel and you get anther 3db. so at 1 watt your now at 96db, for every rise of 3db you need to dubble you output,
96db-1w
99db-2w
102db-4w
105db-8w
108db-16w
111db-32w
114db-64w
117db-128w
120db-256w
123db-512w
126db-1024w, and yes i got my math wrong at frist as you can see
Thats how it works.
What you faild to see is, think of me as "special needs" but i would not post on a fourm sugesting that im a know it all at car audio. i could ask you qustions that would have you asking everyone you know for answers and searching the internet all night.
First off, I didnt start the thread, Im just playing into it so you can get off that right now. Second, you still arent factoring in all your factors for the question asked. If you had said " based on 1000 W RMS and the fact that my subs have a sensitivity of 87db and the fact that my box is ported, going by just the math and not factoring in any enviromental factors or gains/losses due to frequency response, what would my SPL be at." But instead of asking an informed properly educated question, you pull out the jackassery that you did and in turn make yourself look like an idiot. I also dont think I am a know it all as I already pointed out that guys like Gab know more than me. What does piss me off is people like you that think you know more than you obviously do. The rule of a 3db gain is not something concrete and written in stone. Its being proved more times than I care to count through real world testing to be not a rule as much as a guide line to estimate out put. BTW if you wanna ask questions that will leave me "Scratching my head searching the net" then make sure you include all nessasary information. |
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| chris f |
| ill make this one easy, in what situation is it ok to reverse the polarty on a sub? |
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| Ravendarat |
| Technically you can reverse the polarity whenever you want, you wont hurt anything provided its in a single sub situation, although there are reprocusions to doing this. The most common reasons to reverse the polarity on a sub woofer though are either if you are using it in an inverted application or if you are having an issue with a dead spot in the primary listening location. If your drivers seat for example is in a dead spot in the vehicle and the box is unmovable for whatever reason, then changing the polarity on the subwoofer is one way of not fixing that dead spot but instead moving it in the cabin to an area of less importance. Another instance in which you would reverse the polarity of the sub is if you were doing a box in a push pull fashion. In that case one sub, generally the one that is inverted, would have the polarity reversed. Is this all you were looking for or would you like other reasons as well. |
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| Ravendarat |
| Listen Chris, this thread wasnt made because everyone wanted to play stump Da Rat. It was made out of a joke, but if someone has a legit question that they want answered for whatever reason I am more than happy to help out when I can. I believe that is one uses of the board. If you wanna keep playing this game thats fine too, Ill keep answering and Im sure that eventualy your going to find something that I need to actually research before I answer, but I will find out if I can. |
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| white99GT |
So if the sub is wired thusly (from the picture you can probably tell it's a 10W6, PH34R my L33T mspaint skillz) what impedance does it present to the amplifier? I assume it would be 3 ohms since it looks like a weird way to wire it parallel but I have the owner's manual .pdf and a parallel setup wires both positive and negative on the same wire. What's this configuration called?
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| Ravendarat |
| You have a series configuration there, and that would give you a total impedence of 12 ohms. |
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| BErettin |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
1 12 in a box, sealed with a sensativity of 87 db 1w-1ft, add anther 12 and it goes up 3db, port the box and it goes up anther 3db. run them in paralel and you get anther 3db. so at 1 watt your now at 96db, for every rise of 3db you need to dubble you output,
96db-1w
99db-2w
102db-4w
105db-8w
108db-16w
111db-32w
114db-64w
117db-128w
120db-256w
123db-512w
126db-1024w, and yes i got my math wrong at frist as you can see
Thats how it works.
What you faild to see is, think of me as "special needs" but i would not post on a fourm sugesting that im a know it all at car audio. i could ask you qustions that would have you asking everyone you know for answers and searching the internet all night.
:lol: still need another guy barry?. this guy seems like he's done his homework. looks like mostly plagiarism, and forgetting to read the foot notes tho.... |
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| white99GT |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
You have a series configuration there, and that would give you a total impedence of 12 ohms.
So I'm planning on running two 10W6 to a PG ZX500 with the subs wired in parallel. Probably not the best amplifier for the job, but...I can either run the subs 3 ohms stereo or 1.5 ohms bridged. The amp is speced for 2 ohms bridged. Will it last at this load? |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
So I'm planning on running two 10W6 to a PG ZX500 with the subs wired in parallel. Probably not the best amplifier for the job, but...I can either run the subs 3 ohms stereo or 1.5 ohms bridged. The amp is speced for 2 ohms bridged. Will it last at this load?
It is not recomended, but IMO I would do it if it was my gear, I wouldnt think you will have an issue, just make sure it has proper cooling |
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| gab |
quote:
Originally posted by white99GT
So I'm planning on running two 10W6 to a PG ZX500 with the subs wired in parallel. Probably not the best amplifier for the job, but...I can either run the subs 3 ohms stereo or 1.5 ohms bridged. The amp is speced for 2 ohms bridged. Will it last at this load?
i have done this exact setup on a couple different occasions and ran fine at 1.5 mono. just be sure the power is there for the amp to draw. at least 4 guage and a solid ground. both to the amp, and from the battery to the chassis. those zx love the current |
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| chris f |
quote:
Originally posted by BErettin
:lol: still need another guy barry?. this guy seems like he's done his homework. looks like mostly plagiarism, and forgetting to read the foot notes tho....
Am i wrong??? |
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| gab |
quote:
Originally posted by chris f
Am i wrong???
chris it's not that you are wrong, but real world you definately aren't right........... you could equate it to bench racing in a sence. where guidelines are blown to shit in the real world. there are way too many factors involved to say exactly what the driver will do. the only way to find out is too actually do it. and the most i have ever seen out of 2 12's is low 140's. |
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| talonstylz |
i did 143.2 db with 2 rf xlc 12", sealed box, an mtx 752 amp, 8 awg wiring, and some cheap kenwood deck maxed out.
I believe the mic was fucked, cause there is no way that setup would hit such a high number, this was about 5-6 years ago in a 92 plymouth laser.
:D |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by talonstylz
i did 143.2 db with 2 rf xlc 12", sealed box, an mtx 752 amp, 8 awg wiring, and some cheap kenwood deck maxed out.
I believe the mic was fucked, cause there is no way that setup would hit such a high number, this was about 5-6 years ago in a 92 plymouth laser.
:D
This is an unfortunate reality of the buisness. You will get someone who puts on a show but does it with a spiked mic, either because they dont realize its messed up or becuase they want it jacked because the general reality of a show is that you will get more of your customers showing up than not and a jacked mic is going to reinforce their purchase to them. If you went into their shop and bought a pair of subs for 400 bucks and then hit 142 at their show your gonna think your stuff is pretty shit hot, and it might actualy be nice gear, but not THAT nice. For the record though, those xlc Rocko's were nice driver for their time. |
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| talonstylz |
quote:
Originally posted by Ravendarat
This is an unfortunate reality of the buisness. You will get someone who puts on a show but does it with a spiked mic, either because they dont realize its messed up or becuase they want it jacked because the general reality of a show is that you will get more of your customers showing up than not and a jacked mic is going to reinforce their purchase to them. If you went into their shop and bought a pair of subs for 400 bucks and then hit 142 at their show your gonna think your stuff is pretty shit hot, and it might actualy be nice gear, but not THAT nice. For the record though, those xlc Rocko's were nice driver for their time.
I agree, those xlc's took a shit kicking, they remind me of the jlw3's, rated at almost nothing but take a pounding.
At that point of time i was all excited, my first one was at summer thunder at international stereo, i hit, 138.x there, the it was at this other shop i hit 142.3, then the 3rd time was at one of the future shop ones, when it was over on 137ave where the brick is now, i believe there i hit 140.x.
I guess this must of been about 7-8 years ago actually, cause i was 16-17 at the time and now i'm 24, back then i was all excited as i didnt know too much about stereo's. And your right, i did think my stuff was all bad-ass cause of the numbers.:lol:
But looking back on it now is a completely diff story, i was hearing something about the new mic's they are using at the big events around canada/us are reading alot lower then they used. Something like that anyways. Herd anything about that? |
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| Ravendarat |
| A properly configured Term Lab mic is accurate to .1 db's. The old audio control meters could be that accurate as well HOWEVER the mic was far more delicate. If they were bumped wrong, or ever dropped or if the cord was slamed in a door wrong or anything like that then the meter could be thrown WAY outta wack and would remain like that till it was sent back into audio control to be reconfigured. The newer term lab mics which are basicly a little square box that suction cups to the window is far more robust and isnt near as easy to fuck up. Also it uses a cat 5 cable so if the cable is broke it jsut wont read at all as opposed to reading wrong. The last issue is on the audio control you could actually set the meter to give false overages, so that as an example you could set the system to read everyone 6 db higher if you wanted. Also a trick the was used by some shops. |
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| talonstylz |
| interesting, explains why my system seemed so good.....:p |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
I hit 145.5 with 2 - 10" and a 750WRMS amp in an outlaw.. then I hit 142.8 with the same 2 10" and a 1500W(not sure of the RMS) amp on 3 diff mic's. In a car trunk
But umm yeah....
does altitude have anything to do with it? I ask cause in the past I'd see db drag results from out easy and my setup would smoke them based off my db, but if you look at the equipment and the setup you wouldn't figure so. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
I hit 145.5 with 2 - 10" and a 750WRMS amp in an outlaw.. then I hit 142.8 with the same 2 10" and a 1500W(not sure of the RMS) amp on 3 diff mic's. In a car trunk
But umm yeah....
If you are measuring outlaw than its not near as hard to break 140. My last set up with my 4 12's were well over 150 when doing outlaw, but was in the low 140's at the windshield in regulation competition. When you say in a car trunk, does that mean your subs are in the trunk or that you were running outlaw with the mic in the trunk. And if the mic was in the vehicle where was it? You have me interested now. |
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| Ravendarat |
| As far as altitude goes, I dont see how it would make a measurable difference. I mean Im sure that thin air wouldnt help matters, but I cant see it really mattering, if it did then IASCA and UASCA would include those stats when doing their records. The other thing you need to take into account is what class they are running in as well as install. For strait SPL numbers you can make fairly inexpensive equipment compete with gear that is worth substantially more if the install is done right. |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
sorry yeah only the 145.5 was outlaw with a pass moving the mic around the cabin.. the 142.8 was street 1-2 playing by IASCA rules
By trunk I mean the subs are in a trunk, not in the cabin. |
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| Ravendarat |
quote:
Originally posted by SilverNeonRacer
sorry yeah only the 145.5 was outlaw with a pass moving the mic around the cabin.. the 142.8 was street 1-2 playing by IASCA rules
By trunk I mean the subs are in a trunk, not in the cabin.
Thats a very good score for street 1-2. What kinda gear was it? |
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| SilverNeonRacer |
2 - MTX T8104 subs
1 - T81000D Amp
12ga speaker wire, 1/0 Amp power wire, in a 3.3cu ft(ish, can't remember exactly how big) rear facing ported box tuned to 42 or 37Hz.
Desk was a Kenwood with 4.5V pre outs.. can't remember the model.. upgraded to a newer deck the MP-922 with 5V pre-outs, made no difference. |
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