| Insomniac |
It's not "ok" for them to do his, which is why....
"The former member of the tactical unit, now working in economic crimes, faces one charge of criminal negligence causing death and three charges of criminal negligence causing bodily harm."
I think he will go to jail. |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac@Jun 5 2003, 10:17 PM
I think he will go to jail.
He damn well better! It's f@cking murder by the sounds of it....
Imagine what would happen if it was one of us non "cops" that did that... |
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| ChromeDragon |
There are so many contradictions/errors in that story it isn't even funny. I'm a little dissapointed that Canada.com put this report up before checking their facts.
Granted each party was at fault in this, and it's a horrible tragedy, but this police officer is a good man who was trying to protect the rights of others on the road. I really don't think he should go to jail for this, it's terrible that it happened, let him pay his debt by protecting the community like he's sworn his life to doing.
Matt |
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| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jun 5 2003, 10:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac@Jun 5 2003, 10:17 PM
I think he will go to jail.
He damn well better! It's f@cking murder by the sounds of it....
Imagine what would happen if it was one of us non "cops" that did that...
C'mon Chris, do you seriously believe that?
We have given police the right to forego certain laws in the hopes of curtailing worse lawbreaking, sadly things like this happen occasionally.
You start off very insistent that he should go to jail, but then you're a little unsure about it right after. Just think about the details that these people are giving in the story, it's full of contradictions and errors. We have no right to judge from the outside unless we have all of the facts.
Matt |
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| MightyMidget |
yuo guys shoudl really look at the whole picture here....MATT I 150% agree with you!!
YEs it is very very tragic what happened but he was attempting to catch up to one or two speeders/street racers.......IMO though the car that was turning left still must wait until it is safe to do so.
just think if another car was going the speed limit and the same thing happened...who would be at fault??? the driver turning left!!!! make sure yuo have all the facts before you start going of the handle.....errrr CHRIS!!!!
oh and holy crap are there contradiction/errors in that story.......man I hate when the "news" can even report what they do accurately!!!
S |
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| Loose |
quote:
Originally posted by schlong69@Jun 6 2003, 04:57 AM
yuo guys shoudl really look at the whole picture here....MATT I 150% agree with you!!
YEs it is very very tragic what happened but he was attempting to catch up to one or two speeders/street racers.......IMO though the car that was turning left still must wait until it is safe to do so.
just think if another car was going the speed limit and the same thing happened...who would be at fault??? the driver turning left!!!! make sure yuo have all the facts before you start going of the handle.....errrr CHRIS!!!!
oh and holy crap are contradiction/errors in that story.......man I hate when the "news" can even report what they do accurately!!!
S
The story about catching street racers/speeders is under investigation. That's what the cop claims is his reason for speeding.
Your comment about liability is complete horse sh*t and I don't even have to explain why.
I still think he will be responsible for "criminal negligence causing death/bodily harm". IMO driving 137 in a 70 with lights off is negligent, even if you are chasing someone (who may or may not exist).
My opinion of the case is that the cop was a bone head, he is responsible for the death of a little boy, and injury of 3 others, and he should take full responsiblity for his actions.
ps Matt, why do you think he is a "good man"? Do you know him? |
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| Drag-On |
| i agree with loose, why should he be let off with a slap on the hand. I dont want him out there "serving us" i like my car in one peice. What i am saying is why is it ok for police to break the law to stop others from breaking the law??? "2 wrongs dont make a right" |
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| MightyMidget |
if you know the laws.....speeding or NOT a person turnig left MUST MUST yield and turn ONLY when it is safe to do so!!!!!!!. I have waited about to trun left many of times at a light and had to wait until my light was full red and the other traffic had a green until went because some asshole dont stop for teh light of jam on their brakes last minute.
and
how many of you have sped on the YHT??? everyone!!!!!
btw- i have met kenny brander a few times and he is a great guy.....you dont think killing and buning a kid isnt eating him up inside???
S |
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| MightyMidget |
oh ya and if you guys were reading the other artilces that the papers wote yuo would have heard that the grandfather driving the car was looking at his daughter in the passenger seat just as he started to turn.......and would have read that he was turning very slowly..........that artilce by canada.com was garbage!!!!
S |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
I don't know about you, but if I looked down the road with an underpass and it looked safe, I'd go too.
If someone screaming out from under the underpass at a speed fast enough to cut a car in half, I would not see it either.
If you're traveling at high speed and coming out from under an underpass, the people at the top won't see you either.
Noone would have enough time to react, NOONE. Think about that.
Senior citizens drive slow. IMO they should be tested every so often (Like in BC) to see if they still have the skills to drive.
If I had my way, everyone would be retested every so often.
Just a few observations. |
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| MightyMidget |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueTurboEGG@Jun 6 2003, 09:03 AM
If I had my way, everyone would be retested every so often.
Just a few observations.
they are good ones at that.....
if i had my way the driving test/education would be like they are in europe and half the people out there wouldn't have their drivers licences either.......we should ALL be retested every five years regardless
S |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
quote:
Originally posted by schlong69@Jun 6 2003, 08:18 AM
if i had my way the driving test/education would be like they are in europe and half the people out there wouldn't have their drivers licences either.......we should ALL be retested every five years regardless
S
Damn straight, I bet there'd be less crappy dirvers out there too!!
That Graduated Drivers program is too little too late, ever notice how every two seconds you see a "Driver in training?"
That's because everyone and their dog is making a push to get their really green kids to start driving...
WOnderful, more crappy drivers ALL AT ONCE!. |
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| redbaron303 |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jun 6 2003, 01:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by redbaron303@Jun 5 2003, 10:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac@Jun 5 2003, 10:17 PM
I think he will go to jail.
He damn well better! It's f@cking murder by the sounds of it....
Imagine what would happen if it was one of us non "cops" that did that...
C'mon Chris, do you seriously believe that?
We have given police the right to forego certain laws in the hopes of curtailing worse lawbreaking, sadly things like this happen occasionally.
You start off very insistent that he should go to jail, but then you're a little unsure about it right after. Just think about the details that these people are giving in the story, it's full of contradictions and errors. We have no right to judge from the outside unless we have all of the facts.
Chromey
I'm not unsure... I don't know what else you would call it, other than murder.
Remembering way back when the event happened... it was said he blew threw the intersection w/ out his flashing lights or sirens, ripped apart a car, killed a little boy, and destroyed a family...
Really?! He did kill a little boy...
Now like I said, Imagine if one of us did that... we'd be ostracized and jailed w/ the worse possible sentence. Why shouldn't he be??? Even if he was on his way to a call, by what Ive read and heard he wasn't following proper proceedure. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and Matt, you're right about allowing cops to forgoe some laws but when something like this happens is the cost too great???
Oh and steve you make a good point about other articles stating that it was a slow turn and he wasn't paying 100% attention, which in itself shouldn't be excusable, but he's allowed the right to clear the intersection isn't he??? The cop should have been paying some attention too....
I guess there may not be a right answer for this question. It's just sad in the end b/c both people were at fault, but I still say the cop is more at fault for travelling w/ sirens/lights off.... |
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| ChromeDragon |
I did say that they were both at fault Chris, don't put words in my mouth. This is my no means murder. Murder is intentional, whether pre-meditated or not.
I think that it's terrible, I'm sure the officer's life has fallen apart because of this. Nobody ever wants to see things like this happen.
What if the accident occured and nobody was killed? Should he still go to jail? he still did the exact same thing, what makes this different? He had no intention of killing the child when chasing the speeder, but unfortunately it happened and nothing will change that.
Matt |
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| Helios |
All ive heard about this unfortunete incident is the canada.com article. But if this is true on what it says,
Quote: "The unmarked police car's emergency lights and siren were not turned on. Brander's partner, Const. Jean-Guy Lavoie, has said he did not turn on the equipment in case it tipped off a speeding muscle car they were following. "
Then we have serious issues, those safety lights are to warn the public of oncoming Police, they do have a purpose! Why were they not used?? Maybe not the sirens, but at least the lights. If they are exceding the speed limit, then they should have had the lights on.
Very sad for all, the police officers involved, and the poor family. |
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| ChromeDragon |
I agree that the lights should have been on, and they shouldn't have been driving that fast, but when you can't see the car because of the underpass, you can't see the lights either.
I see people doing 120+ on the Yellowhead every single day, some of these people doing that through the 50 and 60km/h construction zones. Should these people not be thrown in jail? The officers speed was not amazingly excessive, he was not doing 137km/h when he hit the car(I honestly don't know where they managed that number).
Matt |
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| MightyMidget |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon@Jun 6 2003, 04:59 PM
I agree that the lights should have been on, and they shouldn't have been driving that fast, but when you can't see the car because of the underpass, you can't see the lights either.
I see people doing 120+ on the Yellowhead every single day, some of these people doing that through the 50 and 60km/h construction zones. Should these people not be thrown in jail? The officers speed was not amazingly excessive, he was not doing 137km/h when he hit the car(I honestly don't know where they managed that number).
Matt
very good points matt......and just an fyi the unmarked tactical car they were driving has NO exterior lights (see roof) the light are on the back window and by the rear veiw mirror.....so even if they were on there is a very very very good chance that the tempo driver WOULD NOT have seen them anyway!!!!
S |
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| 1mns13 |
| Back to the topic. I dont think they took "it" too far. |
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| Loose |
| I guess we'll have to wait and see what the judge rules, and his reasons for judgement. |
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| MightyMidget |
quote:
Originally posted by Loose@Jun 7 2003, 12:47 AM
I guess we'll have to wait and see what the judge rules, and his reasons for judgement.
he actually elected to be tried by judge and jury IIRC.....
S |
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| RezaREX |
| Since I have followed this story since day one I'm going to have to side with the officers on this one. While I agree some form of punishment is called for it's hard to say how much. I think the severity of these charges is quite unreasonable given the circumstances. A relative of mine is facing a "criminal negligence causing death" charge from when his friend was standing on the bumper of his car travelling between 5 and 10 km/h and fell off hitting his head and killing him. Does that sound reasonable??? I think not. While horrific and tragic I put the blame on the Tempo as when turning left it is your responisbility to make sure the pathway is clear regardless of whether or not someone is speeding and BTW the driver of the Tempo wasn't even looking at the freakin' road!!!!! |
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| Insomniac |
Update:
Latest Arcticle
"McInnis told the trial the police cruiser was going as low as 130 kmh and as high as 140 kmh, but most likely was in the range of 136 kmh." (Steve is my former boss. He has been hired by the crown as an expert in their procectution of the cop under criminal charges)
"Court also heard he told a paramedic he saw the cop car coming, but couldn't understand why it was going so fast. And one witness testified Ramirez was walking around the crash scene, saying "what have I done, what have I done." (Interesting, I wonder if he saw the car before he initiated his turn, or if it was just before impact?)
"Witnesses have testified the police car was chasing two cars speeding east on the Yellowhead just before the crash and the officer sped through a yellow light. Some witnesses have maintained the light was green. " (This certainly helps the cops' cases. They will likely be able to prove they had a reason for speeding, rather than just driving around wrecklesly for no reason) |
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| RezaREX |
quote:
Originally posted by Insomniac@Jun 13 2003, 09:15 AM
Update:
Latest Arcticle
"McInnis told the trial the police cruiser was going as low as 130 kmh and as high as 140 kmh, but most likely was in the range of 136 kmh." (Steve is my former boss. He has been hired by the crown as an expert in their procectution of the cop under criminal charges)
"Court also heard he told a paramedic he saw the cop car coming, but couldn't understand why it was going so fast. And one witness testified Ramirez was walking around the crash scene, saying "what have I done, what have I done." (Interesting, I wonder if he saw the car before he initiated his turn, or if it was just before impact?)
"Witnesses have testified the police car was chasing two cars speeding east on the Yellowhead just before the crash and the officer sped through a yellow light. Some witnesses have maintained the light was green. " (This certainly helps the cops' cases. They will likely be able to prove they had a reason for speeding, rather than just driving around wrecklesly for no reason)
About that last part I would say a police officer on duty would most likely never go 130km/h for no reason. |
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| BlueTurboEGG |
| I hope things will get sorted out soon, that way both sides will at the very least have some kind of closure. |
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