| Installing a "turbo" exhaust onto an N/A MR2 - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| kayin |
| Hey, what would I have to do in order to make an exhaust that is made for a turbo MR2 fit onto a N/A MR2? |
|
|
| ChromeDragon |
| Buy a turbo. Honestly though, don't bother. The car will be ridiculously loud without the turbo in line to remove a bunch of the noise. |
|
|
| kayin |
| hmm...makes sense that it would be retarded to have exhaust meant for a turbo on a non turbo car...but say you "had" to put the exhaust on...any ideas on how to make it work? |
|
|
| Godzilla |
| cut off the flange at the top of the down pipe and have it made to work on your exaust manifold (custom fabbing needing doing muchly). im not sure what your manifold is like but chances are you would need some other piping installed as well. |
|
|
| EK9Hatch |
Also remember that turbo Exhaust are typically larger diameter piping then N/A exhausts, so this will decrease back pressure.
Jamie |
|
|
| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by EK9Hatch
Also remember that turbo Exhaust are typically larger diameter piping then N/A exhausts, so this will decrease back pressure.
Jamie
IE, there is a good chance you'll lose power. |
|
|
| EK9Hatch |
quote:
Originally posted by ChromeDragon
IE, there is a good chance you'll lose power.
Exactly ;)
Jamie |
|
|
| mazdaspeed_03 |
| or you could just buy a turbo :dunno: ??????? |
|
|
| Thegnome |
quote:
Originally posted by mazdaspeed_03
or you could just buy a turbo :dunno: ???????
Or a proper N/A exhaust for you N/A car? |
|
|
| kayin |
yes yes, buying a turbo, or swapping the engine out, or getting the right exhaust are all obvious solutions.
since the exhaust is here, and is needed for said car, we're trying to find a solution for the present time
Thanks to Godzilla for suggesting a solution that may work with the current situation...thanks everyone else for their input
-Kings |
|
|
| mazdaspeed_03 |
| okay another idea is to make a quick patch buy tracing out the size of the flange on the manifold....then cutting a piece of metal 1/4 thick or so...then drill holes for where the bolts go...then use hi temp forma gasket and bolt on the plate....therefore closing up the hole....easy enough huh??? :thumbup: |
|
|
| way2fast |
The turbo and non turbo exhaust mount points are the same, the flange for the cat after the turbo and the non turbo manifold are in the same spot. pretty sure they use the same flanges on them too. and as far as it being too loud because it wont have a turbo to quiet the exhaust..... uh.... right, maybe that was a joke.
and a lager exhaust wont hurt, less backpressure means better air flow, which in turn leads to more power.
i have a stock system off a 93t if you want to put a toyota peice on it. |
|
|
| Rich_A |
quote:
Originally posted by EK9Hatch
Exactly ;)
Jamie
BACKPRESSURE DOSE NOT INCREASE HP. You often hear ppl say " you need a little bit of backpressure to make an exhaust work" this usually comes form ppl who are not tuners or someone who does not have the tools or the means to adjust all the variables. The exhaust has to be properly designed and then optimize the jetting, ecu inputs, cams, port dimensions, valve size. The exhaust has to be designed for the intended use. Your engine has 14.5psi(1bar) of ATM pressure sitting at the inlet and another 14.5psi at the end of the tail pipe. the inlet stoke creates a pressure differential and the atm goes inward. The exhaust valve opens and there is a pressure rise in the tube followed by a strong vacuum signal as the gases go down the the pipe. For those that argue that backpressure can be helpful might say, "Let's throw away the exhaust system so we have no backpressure at all". They would conclude that the motor ran like crap. The only problem is that they haven't gotten rid of backpressure, they simply have introduced 15 psi at the exhaust port and have given up any inertia, gas speeds or vacuum signals that exist in a primary tube. The vacuum signal follows the exhaust event can be used to help scavenge the cylinders during overlap. The proper way to look at exhausts is to view them as a way to maintain the highest velocity that will not impede flow. As velocity increases the pressure drops and the engine can be more efficient. |
|
|
| ChromeDragon |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
BACKPRESSURE DOSE NOT INCREASE HP. You often hear ppl say " you need a little bit of backpressure to make an exhaust work" this usually comes form ppl who are not tuners or someone who does not have the tools or the means to adjust all the variables. The exhaust has to be properly designed and then optimize the jetting, ecu inputs, cams, port dimensions, valve size. The exhaust has to be designed for the intended use. Your engine has 14.5psi(1bar) of ATM pressure sitting at the inlet and another 14.5psi at the end of the tail pipe. the inlet stoke creates a pressure differential and the atm goes inward. The exhaust valve opens and there is a pressure rise in the tube followed by a strong vacuum signal as the gases go down the the pipe. For those that argue that backpressure can be helpful might say, "Let's throw away the exhaust system so we have no backpressure at all". They would conclude that the motor ran like crap. The only problem is that they haven't gotten rid of backpressure, they simply have introduced 15 psi at the exhaust port and have given up any inertia, gas speeds or vacuum signals that exist in a primary tube. The vacuum signal follows the exhaust event can be used to help scavenge the cylinders during overlap. The proper way to look at exhausts is to view them as a way to maintain the highest velocity that will not impede flow. As velocity increases the pressure drops and the engine can be more efficient.
You seem to forget, or not realize, that backpressure can assist in charge trapping. This is obviously a bigger issue with 2-strokes, but the principles still exist in 4-strokes. |
|
|
| EK9Hatch |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
BACKPRESSURE DOSE NOT INCREASE HP. You often hear ppl say " you need a little bit of backpressure to make an exhaust work" this usually comes form ppl who are not tuners or someone who does not have the tools or the means to adjust all the variables. The exhaust has to be properly designed and then optimize the jetting, ecu inputs, cams, port dimensions, valve size. The exhaust has to be designed for the intended use. Your engine has 14.5psi(1bar) of ATM pressure sitting at the inlet and another 14.5psi at the end of the tail pipe. the inlet stoke creates a pressure differential and the atm goes inward. The exhaust valve opens and there is a pressure rise in the tube followed by a strong vacuum signal as the gases go down the the pipe. For those that argue that backpressure can be helpful might say, "Let's throw away the exhaust system so we have no backpressure at all". They would conclude that the motor ran like crap. The only problem is that they haven't gotten rid of backpressure, they simply have introduced 15 psi at the exhaust port and have given up any inertia, gas speeds or vacuum signals that exist in a primary tube. The vacuum signal follows the exhaust event can be used to help scavenge the cylinders during overlap. The proper way to look at exhausts is to view them as a way to maintain the highest velocity that will not impede flow. As velocity increases the pressure drops and the engine can be more efficient.
I think you're preaching to the wrong guy bud.
Jamie |
|
|
| stealth |
quote:
Originally posted by way2fast
The turbo and non turbo exhaust mount points are the same, the flange for the cat after the turbo and the non turbo manifold are in the same spot. pretty sure they use the same flanges on them too. and as far as it being too loud because it wont have a turbo to quiet the exhaust..... uh.... right, maybe that was a joke.
and a lager exhaust wont hurt, less backpressure means better air flow, which in turn leads to more power.
i have a stock system off a 93t if you want to put a toyota peice on it.
Pretty sure they won't fit, because I know they sell Turbo to NA exhaust adaptors.
So go to mr2oc.com and search it up!:thumbup: |
|
|
| way2fast |
quote:
Originally posted by stealth
Pretty sure they won't fit, because I know they sell Turbo to NA exhaust adaptors.
So go to mr2oc.com and search it up!:thumbup:
you could be right sam. i was gonna check the n/a i got from you and see what the flanges were like. from pictures ive seen the flanges are in the same location though, but as far as being a bolt up, youve got more hands on in that departent, so i'd say go with what sam says on this. |
|
|
| kayin |
thanks for the site stealth
and thanks for everyone else's help |
|
|
| doom26464 |
quote:
Originally posted by Rich_A
BACKPRESSURE DOSE NOT INCREASE HP. You often hear ppl say " you need a little bit of backpressure to make an exhaust work" this usually comes form ppl who are not tuners or someone who does not have the tools or the means to adjust all the variables. The exhaust has to be properly designed and then optimize the jetting, ecu inputs, cams, port dimensions, valve size. The exhaust has to be designed for the intended use. Your engine has 14.5psi(1bar) of ATM pressure sitting at the inlet and another 14.5psi at the end of the tail pipe. the inlet stoke creates a pressure differential and the atm goes inward. The exhaust valve opens and there is a pressure rise in the tube followed by a strong vacuum signal as the gases go down the the pipe. For those that argue that backpressure can be helpful might say, "Let's throw away the exhaust system so we have no backpressure at all". They would conclude that the motor ran like crap. The only problem is that they haven't gotten rid of backpressure, they simply have introduced 15 psi at the exhaust port and have given up any inertia, gas speeds or vacuum signals that exist in a primary tube. The vacuum signal follows the exhaust event can be used to help scavenge the cylinders during overlap. The proper way to look at exhausts is to view them as a way to maintain the highest velocity that will not impede flow. As velocity increases the pressure drops and the engine can be more efficient.
I don't think anywhere anyone said that backpressure Will increase hp. While you are correct backpressure will not increase hp but going to too large of an exhaust will cause you too lose power on a n/a engine. Most ppl who go to turbo back exhaust on n/a cars(usually 3 inch exhaust) have dynoed and lost a fair amount of peak Hp but sometimes gain a few peak torque. IS it worth it....... not really. |
|
|
| pld0vr |
quote:
Originally posted by EK9Hatch
Also remember that turbo Exhaust are typically larger diameter piping then N/A exhausts, so this will decrease back pressure.
Jamie
The meaning of this statement is true, in that you may loose power. But the cause is false.
The saying that back pressure is needed on an NA car is actually one of those internet myths. You want to keep the exhaust at the correct velocity which will actually pull exhaust from the engine. Too large of a pipe and the exhaust velocity drops and it won't evacuate the cylinders as well.
This is why a smaller pipe will give more low end torque, but less up high power... the smaller pipe is more effective at low rpm creating more power there, but gets choked up higher in the rpm band. A larger pipe does the opposite... and too large kills the benefits all together.
Turbo is a different story though.
edit: just read page 2, pretty much beating a dead horse. lol. Hopefully someone finds it informative. :) |
|
|
| kayin |
haha, it helped me understand a bit more of what Rich_A was saying, thanks!:thumbup:
but alas my buddy crashed his car and so there is no longer a need to get the exhaust on it...anyone need a JIC exhaust? lol |
|
|
|
|
|
