| Wastegate Tech - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| b18c5crx |
look down
I have figured everything out except one detail.
lets say i have two tial 44's running .5 bar springs.
this will let me run 14.5 psi to 17 psi for pump gas with the boost controller.
Now for when i throw some vp import into the mix and wish to run 30+ i am going to need new springs?
I have not found any solid information via googleing.
Does anyone know what the max pressure you can run above the spring ratings before the wg's will begin to leak regardless of how great the boost controller is.
I do not mind changing springs if i do not have to but if i do i would rather order them now then when i actually want to get it on high boost on the dyno. |
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| RS13.2 |
Depends on the boost controller if it can make it that high.
I have a .7 bar spring in my HKS gate and at 50% on my boost controler was 25 psi.
So just buy the stiffest spring you can |
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| DSM |
| The general rule is you can safely run twice as much boost as the spring. |
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| crazyrx7 |
Its all up to the boost controller. If the controller can handle 36psi or more (blitz sbc-id) then you will be okay but if you have a cheap ass boost controller or a manual one then you might have some difficulty achieving your desired boost.
On a side note doubling the boost is a little dangerous don't you think? Unless of course your engine is built for it.
R.K. |
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| DSM |
quote:
Originally posted by crazyrx7
Its all up to the boost controller. If the controller can handle 36psi or more (blitz sbc-id) then you will be okay but if you have a cheap ass boost controller or a manual one then you might have some difficulty achieving your desired boost.
On a side note doubling the boost is a little dangerous don't you think? Unless of course your engine is built for it.
R.K.
I was saying that you can double the boost of the spring; so if you ahve a 10 psi spring in your wastegate you can run 20 psi with the aid of a boost controller. If you want to run more than 20 psi then you should be considering a stiffer spring. Whether or not the engine can handle that is up the owner. |
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| Eclipser |
| Maybe thats why my car wont hold 18lbs of boost. |
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| b18c5crx |
Good info
my ebc is good to 3 bar
I emailed tial a while ago so they still might get back to me on this subject as well. |
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| Can't Stop Spin |
| I have only a 9lb spring in my wga, and with my mbc I can easily run 28lbs :thumbup: :blue: |
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| 180sxforthewin |
| spacers:dunno: :lol: :lol: |
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| b18c5crx |
it requires taking the wastegate off to space it
if i was doing that i would just buy 2 sets of springs. |
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| anschutz_93 |
| chances are running any higher than 20psi of boost will not get you any better numbers anyways because your engine will just knock, timing will get pulled and you will make the same power as 10psi.. personally even on racing fuel ive never seen 30+psi of boost done without knock and even 25psi is likely way above your turbo's effieciency, the air will be hot, less dense and you will loose power. if this is on any stock block no matter what even on race gas i wouldnt suggest going over 25psi even if you have the fuel pump and injectors to do this unless you want a new top end, along with pistons and the such. |
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| b18c5crx |
I wasn't asking what i should do though.
for all you know this could be ryan woons old quick silver 6 speed supra.;)
what the engine/fuel system and turbo can do here is not the problem. |
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| crazyrx7 |
quote:
Originally posted by b18c5crx
I wasn't asking what i should do though.
for all you know this could be ryan woons old quick silver 6 speed supra.;)
what the engine/fuel system and turbo can do here is not the problem.
I'm pretty sure that Ryans old car can handle the boost and has all of the supporting mods done to the car. I seen for sale on ebay a while back. I don't know if it ever sold though considering that huge price tag.
R.K. |
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| Flip |
quote:
Originally posted by anschutz_93
chances are running any higher than 20psi of boost will not get you any better numbers anyways because your engine will just knock, timing will get pulled and you will make the same power as 10psi.. personally even on racing fuel ive never seen 30+psi of boost done without knock and even 25psi is likely way above your turbo's effieciency, the air will be hot, less dense and you will loose power...
Do you know said car, there's quieter members of the board;) that have no problems doing the exact opposite of everything you say isn't realistic. |
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| DSM |
quote:
Originally posted by anschutz_93
chances are running any higher than 20psi of boost will not get you any better numbers anyways because your engine will just knock, timing will get pulled and you will make the same power as 10psi.. personally even on racing fuel ive never seen 30+psi of boost done without knock and even 25psi is likely way above your turbo's effieciency, the air will be hot, less dense and you will loose power. if this is on any stock block no matter what even on race gas i wouldnt suggest going over 25psi even if you have the fuel pump and injectors to do this unless you want a new top end, along with pistons and the such.
So you are saying that I will be better off to run 10 psi with my set up then say the 40 or so that I was planning on running?
If my car ever runs that is. :( |
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| anschutz_93 |
:blink: sorry if i offended you. All i saw was some big number thrown about it was late at night and i was like shit... heres another boost junkie who just got himself a turbo, thinking to himself "well if 1psi=10hp than if i run 30psi i will have an extra 300hp :rolleyes:"
i know there are some done up cars in edmonton that can handle 30+ boost but i was merely stating that i havent seen any, doesnt mean they dont exist. on a stock block (most cars that i would see) however 30+psi is an unrealistic goal to strive for.
i guess im still on edge from mechanics class where some hotshot would have just bought <insert bandwagon turbo car here> and brag to the class their car came stock with 250hp... so what they are going to do to become part of the balla' elite... get an ebc, a turbo timer, a bigger turbo, a narrowband a/f and most importatly an intake kit and turn up the boost 15psi and whammo 350 whp that will drift around courners mad tyte, run an 11sec 1/4 and the only reason they didnt break into the 10's is they were running a 'drift' tune which took away too much traction.
quote:
So you are saying that I will be better off to run 10 psi with my set up then say the 40 or so that I was planning on running?
well i do not know your setup if you are running 450cc injectors no fuel management and the stock smic but you have some monster turbo then yes you would be better of to run 10 psi. if power was as easy as just cranking up the boost, and you instantly have a 500hp car a 40psi then dont you think everyone would do it???
in my original post i began with "chances are" because i did not know this cars setup maybe this guy does have some crazy engine mods and could run 30psi i dont know, i was merely putting forth my opinion in case this guy was inexperianced with boost and was going to blow his engine. nothing i have said is untrue if you run a turbo higher than its efficiency it will warm the air too much and you will loose power if you run too much boost and you dont have the fuel system to back it up the engine would knock. but anyway gl on the build :thumbup: |
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| DSM |
| I am sure people who are running big amounts of boost understand that you cant just crank the boost knob and go. Of course you are going to need supporting mods. And a there are plenty of stock blocks that can handle 30psi. Just maybe not on a GT45R. That is why limits of internals are hp relavent not boost relavent. But since you are so smart I am sure you already knew that. |
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| anschutz_93 |
| what stock blocks can run 30+psi for more than a pull on a dyno? i possibly could have worded it better by stock block i ment no forged internals, port job anything, the way you get it off the lot. for example lets use the 4g63 its know for being a robust engine but even with good supporting mods without forged internals you are pretty much limited to a max of 20-22 psi (safely) while getting no knock, overheated exhaust, burnt valves etc. but anyway my posts were out of place this guy was looking for answeres for his wastegate not bitching about how much boost a stock block can take. |
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| DSM |
| Why do you keep using psi to show what an engine can handle? 20 psi on a 14b is a little different then 20 psi on say a GT35R. |
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| anschutz_93 |
| well for a 14b 20psi is pretty high for the turbo will pretty much go an even at that its past its efficency. but anyway are you telling me that if you put on a bigger turbo you can run more boost without any added stress on the engine 20psi is 20psi buddy :rolleyes: |
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| Eclipser |
| Your digging yourself a hole.20 psi @ 650 cfm is not the same as 20 psi @ say 900 cfm. So 20 psi is not always 20 psi |
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| DSM |
quote:
Originally posted by anschutz_93
well for a 14b 20psi is pretty high for the turbo will pretty much go an even at that its past its efficency. but anyway are you telling me that if you put on a bigger turbo you can run more boost without any added stress on the engine 20psi is 20psi buddy :rolleyes:
Just like Eclipser said 20 psi is not 20 psi. Say 15 psi on a 14b gets you 200 whp, and 15 psi on a GT35R gets you 300 whp. Now which 15 psi will put more stress on internals.? |
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| Can't Stop Spin |
neons can handle 30psi on the stock block...
my car and it's 70k is proof of that :blue: :D |
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| Psi |
quote:
Originally posted by Eclipser
Your digging yourself a hole.20 psi @ 650 cfm is not the same as 20 psi @ say 900 cfm. So 20 psi is not always 20 psi
Case and point.
If Pauls statement wasn't true, what would be the point of a gt35r running 20psi, when a 14b can pump out 20psi aswell.
CFM is your friend. |
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