| Stratotech Oct 13 - One lap around - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| ae1969 |
Here is a clip of one lap that was run at stratotech with the Zcar club. On my video editor it looks like it was run at 1.09.06.
I was trying to chase down JustinL but that guy doesn't make any mistakes. He just gets faster. I am pretty sure he was at least a second faster as I could not gain on him.
This clip was part of the 3rd run of the day. I would of posted the entire run but youtube doesn't like the large file size.
It felt like we were getting faster on the 4th and 5th runs but unfortunately it looks like I ran out of disk space for the last runs (so no video footage). I am not sure if we gained much more time in the last couple runs or not but overall this event was a blast.
What is interesting when you analyze the video footage, you see how early you tend to brake, how late you are getting on the gas, how you tend to break away from the right line. I never realized how much I coasted while driving.??..... The reality is if your foot is not on the gas it should be on the brake.
Things to practice for next year!
Stratotech |
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| NYGACR |
Yah that was a great day- $50 well spent. According to my stopwatch you and Justin were always within a couple tenths of each other.
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| 95EagleAWD |
| I'd like to see my in car cam.... still have to get it off Karyn. |
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| JustinL |
Cool video!
It was just about the perfect track day. Nice weather, No bent metal, good price. By the end of the day, there was more speed, but I still feel like there are a couple seconds left out there. I'm going to have to decide what tires I want to have for next year now!
The starters were a bit sticky at the beginning about us shuffling the group, and we got a couple of scowls when we wanted to have the slower cars moved to the back of the group. Once we got everything sorted out, there was lots of clear track for everyone. |
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| Inzane |
Are you going to post some pics up Alex?
(or anyone else...) |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
Are you going to post some pics up Alex?
(or anyone else...)
Yup. |
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| midnite |
| nice run. i can't wait until next year! |
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| mattEG |
I'm amazed I didn't see you sliding out of the drivers seat into the passengers seat! :D
Did you get any runs in with the instructors? You should ask a few of the old guys to hop in, they usually have good feedback on braking points, etc. That said, I know going into 2 you can brake a heck of alot later than it showed in the video, especially with that new tire combo. :)
Did any of the pics I took turn out? |
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| b18c5crx |
| chris i still have yours on the server if you want me to post it lol |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
I'm amazed I didn't see you sliding out of the drivers seat into the passengers seat! :D
Did you get any runs in with the instructors? You should ask a few of the old guys to hop in, they usually have good feedback on braking points, etc. That said, I know going into 2 you can brake a heck of alot later than it showed in the video, especially with that new tire combo. :)
Did any of the pics I took turn out?
You took some awesome pics of my car........... :thumbup: Some beautiful shots in there.......... I will load these up soon.
I think I will try and attend a driving school next year. I need more seat experience for sure. There are few instructors I have met that would school me left and right..... but I have also seen some instructors that I question their credentials....... Not sure if you just take a weekend course and all of a sudden you are an instructor???
To be honest this 21 year old car makes me look a lot better than I am....... With some seat time I am sure I will be able to squeeze out a little more out of this old girl. She is quite a forgiving vehicle.
...and I may take your advice and put in a race seat.....now to find one that is wide enough......hahaha. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by ae1969
You took some awesome pics of my car........... :thumbup: Some beautiful shots in there.......... I will load these up soon.
I think I will try and attend a driving school next year. I need more seat experience for sure. There are few instructors I have met that would school me left and right..... but I have also seen some instructors that I question their credentials....... Not sure if you just take a weekend course and all of a sudden you are an instructor???
To be honest this 21 year old car makes me look a lot better than I am....... With some seat time I am sure I will be able to squeeze out a little more out of this old girl. She is quite a forgiving vehicle.
...and I may take your advice and put in a race seat.....now to find one that is wide enough......hahaha.
Good to hear that some of the shots turned out!
You're quick out there, that's for damn sure, but the willingness to take advice from people will most definitely make you a better driver in the end.:thumbup:
I would whole heartedly recommend taking the WCMA competition school in May, and if you've got some spare time I'd also recommend taking the NASCC ice-race school that we put on every January, you'd be amazed at what that does for your car control.
As for your questions in regards to instructors... you are correct in assuming that some of them have a questionable amount of track experience compared to the rest of us, but more often than not they are going to find something to help you out with. That said, when in doubt grab an old guy and/or ask someone that looks fast to give you some tips. No harm in asking. |
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| JustinL |
| Definitely do the race seats. Our stock seats weigh a ton! When you are sliding around and using the wheel to hold on it's hard to get as precise steering inputs. Fixed back for the driver and maybe a folder for the passenger if your girls haven't outgrown the rear seats. We can chat about them some time. |
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| midnite |
quote:
Originally posted by b18c5crx
chris i still have yours on the server if you want me to post it lol
sure if you want to |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
Definitely do the race seats. Our stock seats weigh a ton! When you are sliding around and using the wheel to hold on it's hard to get as precise steering inputs. Fixed back for the driver and maybe a folder for the passenger if your girls haven't outgrown the rear seats. We can chat about them some time.
I do tend to slide around on those leather seats quite a bit actually.....The car goes one way and I keep going the other..... I just hold on..........hahahaha
The funny thing about the girls, Is that the oldest is asking me to take her out driving. She is counting the days to get her learners.....and that is a year away!
I think they have outgrown the back seat. They want the drivers seat.... :eek: |
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| NYGACR |
I think my autocross times dropped 2 seconds when I installed a race seat. On Saturday I noticed whenever I'd try to left foot brake I'm still doing a lot of bracing with my leg. I'd like to see how a 5 point harness works out. A GT3 seat would look good in your car- light too!
I wasn't very happy with the no passing rule for the event. I had a well matched group but halfway through every session a slower car would jump in (typically directly in front of me). I'd catch him in half a lap and then do the same thing over and over again. |
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| Inzane |
I love ads. They are seriously not gay! --->
quote:
Originally posted by ae1969
Here is a clip of one lap that was run at stratotech with the Zcar club. On my video editor it looks like it was run at 1.09.06.
This clip was part of the 3rd run of the day.
Stratotech
It looks like you took the Turn 1 exit fairly shallow in the video. Was that your normal line? I was going more to the outside (wider) on exit. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
I love ads. They are seriously not gay! --->
It looks like you took the Turn 1 exit fairly shallow in the video. Was that your normal line? I was going more to the outside (wider) on exit.
Our group noticed that most of the Z and miata guys had crazy retarded turn 1 entry lines though, you'd all brake waaaay late as far outside as possible and then turn in as hard as you could.... That was honestly costing them at least a second a lap, not to mention giving them NO forgiveness whatsoever if an error was made.. It was fun to watch though. :D |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
Our group noticed that most of the Z and miata guys had crazy retarded turn 1 entry lines though, you'd all brake waaaay late as far outside as possible and then turn in as hard as you could.... That was honestly costing them at least a second a lap, not to mention giving them NO forgiveness whatsoever if an error was made.. It was fun to watch though. :D
Well then why didn't you say anything?
I would've gladly accepted the advice.
I can't speak for the miatas but pretty much all of us in the Zs are novices when it comes to roadcourse. (although some of the Miatas may have been aiming for the guy in the red instructors jacket who kept standing out too far out on the track at the entrance... ) ;) |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
Our group noticed that most of the Z and miata guys had crazy retarded turn 1 entry lines though, you'd all brake waaaay late as far outside as possible and then turn in as hard as you could.... That was honestly costing them at least a second a lap, not to mention giving them NO forgiveness whatsoever if an error was made.. It was fun to watch though. :D
Its just that the miata guys and Z cars have no brakes..... and they overshoot that corner....... hahaha....... Just kidding.
Jason, I was trying to brake later on turn #1 but .....
I was spooking myself once I hit 105 mph...so I would automatically go off the gas... coast ... hit the brakes and turned in.
As you can see I carried some speed into turn 2 but never took the segment between 1 and 2 very aggresively.
By the 4th and 5th runs I was braking a little deeper into #1 as I felt more comfortable with the speed.
P.S I have all winter to post up Z pics. ;) |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by ae1969
I was spooking myself once I hit 105 mph
WTF? You were hitting ~169kph on the short straight? (between turn 9 and turn 1) Holy sheet... how much boost?
I was braking really late coming into turn 1, intentionally because my brakes could take it. (I was getting up to 125-130 on the start/finish straight I think, and >150 on the long straight) But I didn't realize it was costing me time doing that...
BTW, Turn 1 is near the entrance gate, Turn 2 is at the end of the long straight, just in case people are confusing which corners are being talked about. I've only been talking about Turn 1 the last couple posts. |
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| MX5 Miata Guy |
Interesting the comments re: Turn 1.
I had two instructors comment...one saying to take it wider, the other to take it tighter. Both are road racers with plenty of experience, one of which was involved in all of the Speedway Performance track sessions this summer at Stratotech (tighter). The reference on the tight line was the yellow paint line near the apex cone...as the suggestion was to have at least two tires inside the line.
Consistent people are not...as competitors or instructors. |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
WTF? You were hitting ~169kph on the short straight? (between turn 9 and turn 1) Holy sheet... how much boost?
I was braking really late coming into turn 1, intentionally because my brakes could take it. (I was getting up to 125-130 on the start/finish straight I think, and >150 on the long straight) But I didn't realize it was costing me time doing that...
BTW, Turn 1 is near the entrance gate, Turn 2 is at the end of the long straight, just in case people are confusing which corners are being talked about. I've only been talking about Turn 1 the last couple posts.
SOrry turn 1 I was thinking at the end of the long straight! hahaha...... down the short straight that would of been pretty scary!
The more speed you carry on that turn the better. It is a fine line.. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by MX5 Miata Guy
Interesting the comments re: Turn 1.
I had two instructors comment...one saying to take it wider, the other to take it tighter. Both are road racers with plenty of experience, one of which was involved in all of the Speedway Performance track sessions this summer at Stratotech (tighter). The reference on the tight line was the yellow paint line near the apex cone...as the suggestion was to have at least two tires inside the line.
Consistent people are not...as competitors or instructors.
The entire Miata group got faster after adjusting to the inside lines, or at least the laps that I timed were.
Inzane: I'd thought Brian had wandered over and talked to you guys about it! I guess not. :) Just something to try next time! |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by ae1969
SOrry turn 1 I was thinking at the end of the long straight! hahaha...... down the short straight that would of been pretty scary!
The more speed you carry on that turn the better. It is a fine line..
That's crazy, even when I pushed as hard as I could through 1 I was seeing something around 135-140 kph down the back straight. That's alot of speed you're carrying down there! Still, brake later. :P
I wish I could've thrown those r-compounds on the car for Saturday, it would've been neat to see the difference. I'm also going to need to actually put the swaybars back on the civic, it's got incredible body roll without. |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
Inzane: I'd thought Brian had wandered over and talked to you guys about it! I guess not. :) Just something to try next time!
If he did, it was either after I left (after the 4th session), or I just wasn't around (bathroom, lunch break,...) and missed it, and my clubmates held out on me and didn't pass on the tip. Oh well. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by Inzane
If he did, it was either after I left (after the 4th session), or I just wasn't around (bathroom, lunch break,...) and missed it, and my clubmates held out on me and didn't pass on the tip. Oh well.
I know he chatted with the Miata group, but not completely sure if he chatted with the Z group. Either way, as Richard said above it's all up for interpretation as to what works for who... but I maintain it's faster. Haha. |
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| midnite |
i would hit 140kmh before braking for turn two if i took turn 1 with a tight inside line, i would only hit 130s if i took a wider line, so an inside line worked better for me in turn 1.
my tires really held me back though, next year i'll have something better so i can exit turn 1 quicker. :D |
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| MX5 Miata Guy |
| Just spoke with my buddy -- the guy with the BMW M6 -- who was an instructor. He was, on the ride I took during the first session, hitting about 170 at the end of the main straight. Near the end of the day, it was north of 180...and that was on the wide line through Turn 1. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by MX5 Miata Guy
Just spoke with my buddy -- the guy with the BMW M6 -- who was an instructor. He was, on the ride I took during the first session, hitting about 170 at the end of the main straight. Near the end of the day, it was north of 180...and that was on the wide line through Turn 1.
The guy in the M6 that held up the group so they had to move him to another one? :)
That is a very impressive speed for the end of the back straight, what sort of power do those make? 500 bhp? |
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| Inzane |
quote:
Originally posted by mattEG
The guy in the M6 that held up the group so they had to move him to another one? :)
That car had two drivers didn't it? Owner and owner's son, I think...
I was > 150kph, taking the wider exit in my car btw. So it sounds like I could've been faster. Hmm. I'll try better next time. |
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| aarrgghh |
Why do I always hit the dam adds?--------->
I'm pretty sure you're right Inzane. That's pretty serious speed for that turn too. |
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| MX5 Miata Guy |
| Yes, the slower laps turned by the M6 were by his son. |
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| ae1969 |
quote:
Originally posted by MX5 Miata Guy
Yes, the slower laps turned by the M6 were by his son.
Son was clocking around 140-145 seconds on the video.... He did nothing wrong he was there to learn like all of us. He just got caught in the wrong group. I am sure the next time he would shave 10 seconds no problem. That is a LOT of car for someone to take out on that course.
Dad was around 120-125. Still pretty quick for such a big car.
I definitely would not want to try and pass that baby on the highway...... I would need to crank it up a couple of psi and loose a good 30 pounds from my waistline to even think of passing an M6.......
:D |
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| JustinL |
quote:
Originally posted by MX5 Miata Guy
Yes, the slower laps turned by the M6 were by his son.
Our first run group was led by the father and he was reasonably quick, especially on the straight. I could be on his tail after turn 1 and he'd put a little distance on me down the straight to turn 2, but not so much that I couldn't easily catch right back up under braking. The second run with the son driving at the back of the pack our whole group caught on the first hot lap.
As for turn 1, (IMHO) the priority is exit speed with that long straight afterwards, so I'm willing to sacrifice entrance speed to optimize exit speed. I'll set up on the outside where it's still clean and free of debris. Then turn in with just a touch of trailbraking. I'm happy if I can hit the rumble strips at nearly full throttle and then track out to that little triangular widened part of the track right as the straight begins. If I need to lift or tighten steering from apex to track out I consider that a mistake. |
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| midnite |
quote:
Originally posted by JustinL
As for turn 1, (IMHO) the priority is exit speed with that long straight afterwards, so I'm willing to sacrifice entrance speed to optimize exit speed. I'll set up on the outside where it's still clean and free of debris. Then turn in with just a touch of trailbraking. I'm happy if I can hit the rumble strips at nearly full throttle and then track out to that little triangular widened part of the track right as the straight begins. If I need to lift or tighten steering from apex to track out I consider that a mistake.
It's hard to tell from the overhead view, but I believe my apex was about where this blue dot is, and I could WOT until I straitened out on the outside of the track at the red dot. Sometimes I'd end up with my right wheels on the white strip and have to pull back in slightly, but I wouldn't have to lift off the throttle, or turn in any more after apex.
This was my fastest route.
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| 95EagleAWD |
| Same here... I was apexing late in that corner and going WOT as soon as I could. |
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| midnite |
| next time i want to bring a gps and import my racing lines into google earth. :D |
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| Inzane |
Anyone know where the apex cone marker was relative to the blue dot?
I don't think my line was that different than what midnite is describing there... |
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| aarrgghh |
| I think the apex was marked a little before the blue dot. Around the second dark splotch on the track. |
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| midnite |
| Matt, could you draw the tight and wider lines that you mentioned onto the google earth pic, so there is no misunderstanding? |
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| midnite |
quote:
Originally posted by aarrgghh
I think the apex was marked a little before the blue dot. Around the second dark splotch on the track.
Now that you mention it, I think I placed the dot in the wrong spot.
I uploaded the image again with where I believe I was apexing. |
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| mattEG |
| Essentially the fast line is where you see the shades of rubber on the track. Alot of guys were going way to deep and a bit too wide into turn 1. |
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| midnite |
| That's pretty close to the line I would take.. I would turn in as tight as the dark lines, but apex a couple metres after the cone because that felt like the right spot for my car. I'd WOT right before my apex about where the cone was, and use the throttle to slightly steer the car. |
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| mattEG |
quote:
Originally posted by midnite
That's pretty close to the line I would take.. I would turn in as tight as the dark lines, but apex a couple metres after the cone because that felt like the right spot for my car. I'd WOT right before my apex about where the cone was, and use the throttle to slightly steer the car.
Yea, I found the apex was a bit later than that blue cone. I was in third gear in my car just before I tracked out. That said, I'm not sure what it would've done on decent tires, I was overdriving the car a bit for the grip I had. |
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